Support NeoGAF

[Men_in_Boxes]

There's a new rumor out stating that Bungie changed Marathon into a hero based (extraction) shooter.

Bungie's Marathon Changes Direction to Have 'Selectable Cast of Heroes' - Insider Gaming

Marathon will now have a selectable cast of heroes rather than custom player characters, says a new report.

insider-gaming.com

I have yet to see a positive comment about this change online. What gives? I don't have an opinion about this one way or the other and I need to see how it's implemented before I do. Can anyone illuminate this issue or is this just "gamers being gamers" nonsense?

 

[STARSBarry]

The last time a "Hero Shooter" was done well was Team Fortress 2.

 

[Holammer]

Because in this case it's a decision taken for monetization purposes only.

 

[lughnasadh123]

In general I think a part of that is from people being mostly negative about everything online anyways.

 

[Hero_Select]

Probably because we've had and seen a lot of hero-shooters come and go.

I'm not going to speak for everyone else but eh. My interest in Marathon is practically zero but it'll have it's own fanbase.

Shouldn't be too hard.. just be better than OW2

 

[StueyDuck]

Most likely cause overwatch sadly popularized them for the mainstream and overwartch cares more about what genitals their characters put in their mouths then making a good game anymore .

Tldr players have been burnt

 

[Bridges]

It's just oversaturated. Hero Shooter was the "this is where the money is" genre for too long and most of those games couldn't hold up to the likes of TF2 or OW. Even worse, I think what really burned people is other FPS games deciding that they want to chase trends and now they need to incorporate Hero Shooter elements. Namely Call of Duty and Battlefield.

Hero Shooters also tend to go hand in hand with live service and heavy monetization so that probably plays a role too.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Rather than it becoming a hero shooter, isn't the change in genre itself at such a stage the real problem? It's a huge red flag.

 

[april6e]

The concept has been overdone and people don't want Bungie to make an inferior version of what has already been mastered by other studios. If anything, gamers are desiring more shooters that are more like the old school stuff in the 00s. People want Bungie to make the next Halo 2, not the next Overwatch 2.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Rather than it becoming a hero shooter, isn't the change in genre itself at such a stage the real problem? It's a huge red flag.

That's where I'm at. Going from one to the other is a pretty drastic change in genres and gameplay. Especially where they're at in development right now. It almost feels like a "spaghetti at the wall" situation.

 

[tkscz]

Over saturation and a move made to appeal to a least common denominator crowd. Marathon is as classic a shooter as Quake or Doom. You can imagine fans of the series were looking forward to a game in a similar style or similar to Halo, but this is a HUGE departure from that style of shooter. It's like being told by your favorite baker that they are making your favorite style of cake, to then turn around and tell you they are changing the flavor to one that seems to be more popular with a different crowd for people.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Just like any other game, I just want to see how it works out.

I also didn't even know Marathon was an existing IP until I read it here on Gaf not too long ago, so I couldn't care less about what oldskool fans think Bungie should do with the game.

 

[Danknugz]

it's an immature concept aimed at little kids

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Because in this case it's a decision taken for monetization purposes only.

Don't we need to see it first in order to judge?

Over saturation and a move made to appeal to a least common denominator crowd. Marathon is as classic a shooter as Quake or Doom. You can imagine fans of the series were looking forward to a game in a similar style or similar to Halo, but this is a HUGE departure from that style of shooter. It's like being told by your favorite baker that they are making your favorite style of cake, to then turn around and tell you they are changing the flavor to one that seems to be more popular with a different crowd for people.

You think a lot of Marathon fans from the early 90s, all 12 of them, were interested in the new Marathon before it turned hero based?

Rather than it becoming a hero shooter, isn't the change in genre itself at such a stage the real problem? It's a huge red flag.

It's still an extraction shooter. The genre is unchanged.

 

[tkscz]

Don't we need to see it first in order to judge?


You think a lot of Marathon fans from the early 90s, all 12 of them, were interested in the new Marathon before it turned hero based?


It's still an extraction shooter. The genre is unchanged.

Yes, people who loved Marathon went to Halo, people who loved Halo went to Destiny. Those three Bungie franchises had that core sci-fi feel that kept attracting those same people and people like them. Such a drastic change at the last minute would turn a lot of them away.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Yes, people who loved Marathon went to Halo, people who loved Halo went to Destiny. Those three Bungie franchises had that core sci-fi feel that kept attracting those same people and people like them. Such a drastic change at the last minute would turn a lot of them away.

How many people who loved the first 3 Marathon in the early 90s games are still playing games in your estimation?

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

What once was a fresh concept is now an overused cash grab, just like battle royale games.

 

[tkscz]

How many people who loved the first 3 Marathon in the early 90s games are still playing games in your estimation?

This is like asking how many people who played the original Doom are still playing games. I'd say most of them are still playing games. I still see a lot of the old Ultima fanbase still playing games today.

I see where you're attempting to get at, but I'd still say a good chunk of people who got excited for a new Marathon game played the original, either back in the day or via GoG because they follow Bungie as a company. They could've started with Halo and went backwards just to experience it.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

This is like asking how many people who played the original Doom are still playing games. I'd say most of them are still playing games. I still see a lot of the old Ultima fanbase still playing games today.

I see where you're attempting to get at, but I'd still say a good chunk of people who got excited for a new Marathon game played the original, either back in the day or via GoG because they follow Bungie as a company. They could've started with Halo and went backwards just to experience it.

Doom was a much more popular game than Marathon.

And does "most of them" mean 51% or 99%?

And of that number, what percentage were excited for a PvP focused Marathon?

And what percentage of those people are turned off by the game moving to it being hero based?

 

[tkscz]

Doom was a much more popular game than Marathon.

And does "most of them" mean 51% or 99%?

And of that number, what percentage were excited for a PvP focused Marathon?

And what percentage of those people are turned off by the game moving to it being hero based?

I'll go ahead and create a survey to find out these exact numbers

The OP asked a simple question, why so many people are reacting negatively, and I gave a possible answer, people expected one thing but they are changing it to another was the gist of my answer, why digging so deep? I even said "similar to Halo" and we both know Halo has a huge fanbase who followed Bungie.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Seems to be a dumb talking point to shit on certain games or devs and is totally without meaning or substance

 

[Rockman33]

Most of gaf people don’t play pvp multiplayer games. Whether it’s because they just don’t like them or they aren’t good at them is unclear. I’m leaning towards they aren’t good at them which makes them unenjoyable.

Hero shooters are almost always multiplayer pvp games, hence the negative view.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I'll go ahead and create a survey to find out these exact numbers

The OP asked a simple question, why so many people are reacting negatively, and I gave a possible answer, people expected one thing but they are changing it to another was the gist of my answer, why digging so deep? I even said "similar to Halo" and we both know Halo has a huge fanbase who followed Bungie.

I'm just trying to find your logic.

I just don't see any people who loved the first Marathon games being excited for Bungies Marathon until they learned it was hero based. That literally sounds like a population of 0.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

The lack of a Campaign/story mode?

 

[Spyxos]

The last time a "Hero Shooter" was done well was Team Fortress 2.

Team Fortress 2 and Overwatch 1.

 

[killatopak]

Speaking for myself but I think it’s mostly because of the way they monetize the genre. I played my fair share of them so I wouldn’t exactly say the genre is bad. I just won’t play one unless it’s a really good one because it’s a money sink.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Most of gaf people don’t play pvp multiplayer games. Whether it’s because they just don’t like them or they aren’t good at them is unclear. I’m leaning towards they aren’t good at them which makes them unenjoyable.

Hero shooters are almost always multiplayer pvp games, hence the negative view.

There's definitely an element of this polluting the discussion, but I get the feeling some multiplayer centric gamers don't like hero based design either. I'm interested in hearing the reason why from the latter group.

Personally, I've really enjoyed games like DotA2, Overwatch, and even The Finals (all Hero based)...but I also love Fortnite (not hero based).

To me, it 100% depends on how it's implemented so I don't see the logic in judging this early.

 

[SoloCamo]

Certainly helped ruin BF2042. Nothing like seeing the same "hero" multiple times in a 128 player map.

 

[mayham2199]

It's just gamers being negative like always. If the game comes out and blows everyone away people will shut up and play it. Just like the people who thought HD2 was going to be mid and no one even really cared about it. Then it launched, was fun as hell, and everyone loved it.

That's the thing about games. You can say whatever you want about a game but when it comes out is it fun as hell to play? That's all that matters.

 

[Ceadeus]

Monetization and toxicity

 

[rubenburgt]

I guess its because all hero shooters are trying to be live service games, and live service games are trash nowadays. Its filled with (micro-)transactions that even affects gameplay.

Really, the last good hero shooters is team fortress 2.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

How many people who loved the first 3 Marathon in the early 90s games are still playing games in your estimation?

They were three?!?!?

 

[nkarafo]

I'm tired of seeing so many characters or "heroes" in a single universe/ip, battling each other. All with their fancy outfits, stupid lore and crappy personalities to cater to at least 2 billion people, battling again and again and again.

What can i say, i prefer the single hero scenario, in a single player campaign battling the bad guys. Yes i'm that old.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Because hero shooters have flooded the market where everything is a bright colored rainbow eye fuck fest with dumb looking characters for roles that could have just been called classes.

 

[yurinka]

I think the rumor is fake.

But other than that, I prefer to be able to customize my character/weapon/skills/etc in a deeper way than a hero shooter.

 

[Rockman33]

There's definitely an element of this polluting the discussion, but I get the feeling some multiplayer centric gamers don't like hero based design either. I'm interested in hearing the reason why from the latter group.

Personally, I've really enjoyed games like DotA2, Overwatch, and even The Finals (all Hero based)...but I also love Fortnite (not hero based).

To me, it 100% depends on how it's implemented so I don't see the logic in judging this early.

Completely agree. Hero shooters, just like every other type of game can be great or terrible. In general if done right, hero shooters feels like it can add a lot of variety to gameplay.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I think the rumor is fake.

But other than that, I prefer to be able to customize my character/weapon/skills/etc in a deeper way than a hero shooter.

I think the rumor is fake too.

Extraction shooters are based on customization and building your character up.

Hero shooters are not.

I suspect the IGN writer flubbed "class based" with "hero shooter" thinking it was the same thing.

 

[Killer8]

I don't want to feel like a 'hero' in my multiplayer games, actually.

I want to feel like everyone else - except it's my own skill elevating me to the top of the leaderboard, not cheesing some abilities with dogshit looking costumes and spouting one liners.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I don't want to feel like a 'hero' in my multiplayer games, actually.

I want to feel like everyone else - except it's my own skill elevating me to the top of the leaderboard, not cheesing some abilities with dogshit looking costumes and spouting one liners.

That's like playing chess and going "I don't want to take a pawn with my rook using his cheese movement ability."

 

[Hudo]

It's the evolution of MOBAs, which everyone already hated and still hates (and rightfully so).

 

[BennyBlanco]

Already had my fill of them with OW and TF2

I don’t think they’re bad I just have no interest in playing another one

 

[Pegasus Actual]

I don't see how TeamFortress would be considered a 'hero shooter'. Because they had Meet the Sniper ads? Seems pretty clearly a class-based shooter to me.

The premier hero shooters are Siege and Apex with the Overwatch franchise having faded pretty hard.

I don't know if I buy the 'hero' concept for an extraction shooter... it's a little silly in BR form (Apex) but I kind of get it.

Seems to me to just be an excuse to make the player select from the Gay Pride Parade character screen rather than problematically make your own character how you want and with no explicit sexuality because you're playing a multiplayer shooter and your sexuality never actually comes up.