• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

What's the best stealth game of all time? Hitman 2: SA, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, Thief II, or Metal Gear Solid 2?

Best Stealth game of all time?

  • Hitman 2: Silent Assassin

    Votes: 13 5.6%
  • Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory

    Votes: 79 34.1%
  • Thief II: Metal Age

    Votes: 31 13.4%
  • Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty

    Votes: 48 20.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 61 26.3%

  • Total voters
    232

Esppiral

Member
Nov 19, 2018
1,740
2,362
395
The only answer is SC CT, Thief is the closest one, lol at the casuals that voted MGS2, but you are free to be wrong. :)
 

SyberWolf

Member
Feb 12, 2015
288
35
510
Belgium
metal gear solid
syphon filter
splinter cell

those are my top 3 franchises a bit hard for me to choose one game.
 
Last edited:

Neff

Member
Feb 6, 2012
13,183
2,262
1,080
UK
Wait.. multiple people saying Last of Us part 2?

LOU1 was one of the worst attempts at stealth I've ever played..

TLoU1 is a bit like 'hey look, we're doing stealth too!' But it was competently implemented and essential on higher difficulties.

TLoU2 fully embraces it with elaborate level design and numerous traversal routes, not to mention dedicated stealth mechanics and improved AI. It's definitely one of the best stealth games out there, but people are still too DEFCON 1 assmad about Abby's penchant for golf to let themselves see it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: IntentionalPun

Shelookdlvl18

Banned
Nov 8, 2020
558
1,064
360
You've not addressed anything I discussed here, why even pretend you respond to my post when you really aren't doing that and just go on ad hominem rants? Now you just go all "it's an opinan dood, let me has it" bs when you're the one who first tried to discredit others' opinion of a game, again with ad hominem. Rather than simply talk about what you think of it you had to talk about why fans don't think it's good or don't know any better and just deliberately or subconciously hype it over some platform wars or whatever you imagine (noone ever said that stuff about PUBG btw, fad as any for any enthusiast and don't go showing me some stupid casual articles to prove that wrong because obviously the game was successful on all platforms - 8 million copies on Xbone by summer 2018 - until f2p BR competition came so that would also disprove your opinion that it was only considered good by PC exclusivity bonus points from platform fanboys) because your opinion is better. Just read my last post, still waiting for an answer to the core question and how a game went from "I guess it's good stealth" to "it's poorly outdated in gameplay and every way" and how each of these is justified beyond "honestly, I did play it, I prefer SC, let me". If you can't merely discuss, don't fake it or play the victim. Well, too late, after pages of deflecting and showing an inability to rationally explain yourself, even if you now make up some actual reasoning like specific flaws in mission and level design, or some other actually critical aspect of it with more than just "poorly outdated" and other meaningless expressions, it won't justify your behavior.
Justify my behavior?

Well don't you think highly of yourself? I don't have to justify my behavior to you. You're a forum troll at best. What makes you think I need to justify anything to you? What... Just because you haven't realized you're not nearly as important as you believe you are, you think I should just play along?

I did address your points (as poorly construed as they were). I stated that it was a decent game with good stealth, but that in comparison to games such as SC it really comes across as outdated. While that's a simple concept for me to grasp, you're obviously struggling with it. So let's try this a different way.

When taken as a whole... point out the drastic differences between Thief 2 stealth mechanics vs The Elder Scrolls Oblivion? Both have a rather similar movement system. Both have a stealth and detection system that somewhat similar. Both allow you to laughably pickpocket npc's. What are the vast differences between the two as far as just the stealth aspects?

Now it's a given that Thief is a game more focused on stealth, and to certain extent probably does it better. But it's not hard to argue the similarities between the two, notwithstanding the fact that ESO does a ton of other things as that's not even it's main focus as a game. If one created a basic identical modded map for both games and left everything else alone... While there would definitely be some differences, they'd largely play similar on both. I'm not saying ESO is a better stealth game in any way. Thief 2 most definitely is, but while there is differences... The two are definitely comparable when looked at from a stealth standpoint.

Yet while nobody is even claiming ESO is a particularly good stealth game, Thief is supposed to be the greatest stealth game of all time. You can argue this point until you're blue all you want. There's plenty of video available for everyone to see for evidence, not to even mention the poll results of this very thread on a gaming forum that has Thief 2 tracking slightly ahead of Hitman and not even at half of SC. Yet you just can't seem to wrap your head around it, and demand "justification". You've got nothing, and in a desperate attempt at credibility, you're accusing me of deflecting.

Do better.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Alexios

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Jan 30, 2010
15,560
5,231
1,410
https://twitter.com/Agnates
metacouncil.com
So, you can't climb or lean and have simplified movement modes (to think SC got hype for its variable movement speed, but because it was separate key presses for creeping, walking, running, different when combined with crouching, etc., in Thief 2 it now doesn't matter and is just like Oblivion), you've got no real stealth geared toolkit like rope arrows, moss arrows, water arrows and their numerous applications, etc., you can basically bypass everything with the simple yet OP toolkits you do have (like invisibility spells and skills or whatever chosen), there are very simplistic objectives and conditions to pass or fail them, you can always fall back to combat, and more importantly the level and mission design simply isn't centered around making the most of that and making you use your actual grey matter to make the most of that. So, yes, if you remove every dang peripheral element from every stealth game ever you're indeed left with something like basic AI vision cones and sound distance and light and darkness and if they respond, or not. You sorta have to build a whole game, like Thief, or Splinter Cell (which btw is 2+ years after Thief 2, acting like that's minor when your beloved Xbox didn't even exist then), or Chaos Theory (5) and every aspect like this sorta matters for the whole. Lol @ calling me a troll after, once again, making your very first post an ad hominem towards people for liking a game more than a game you like, er, more, pushing your opinion as the right one rather than an opinion as you so desperately claimed I now can't allow you to have. Yep, you're the victim. You didn't address shit. Saying you did doesn't make it true. Here it is again, where is the trolling and what did you address anywhere so far, beyond praising SC and trashing Thief?
Why don't you explain how it is outdated beyond graphics (every game in OP is, to different degrees)? Earlier you said you "guess" its stealth is good (so I don't know what makes it not qualify then, stealth is all it does, do you think its story is bad or something, cos it's actually pretty good, so?) and you "think" it's PC only, which was showing you've never even played it or know anything about it to judge it. So, what did you think makes its stealth good, and now suddenly in a following post apparently it's all bad and outdated in gameplay and everything else? You don't know anything about the game, its engine, AI features, player capabilities, anything. You chose some random video that a) makes everything, even shadows, super bright thanks to the "hd mod" and b) shows you a player that knows the game inside out and is able to exploit all of its AI and engine features without batting an eye while beelining from one objective or loot object to the next, which when you play you aren't aware of (nor do you get any kind of x ray vision/tags/objective markers, but you get organic and logical design you can figure out as a player with some grey matter) and need to get your own bearings and consult your rough in game maps, pick up clues, listen in on conversations, or whatever.

As far as its stealth goes, it has as many features as any modern stealth game. Your character can creep, walk, run, climb anything he can reach via jump or other means, rather than preset climb points, crouch and lean in various directions all helpful in points, the AI has different alert states and may be set to patrol, wander, guard things in place, have schedules, based on their logical role and mission and so on, there's sound propagation based on the physical properties of everything, carpet makes less sound, metal surfaces the most and it all carries differently, you can pick up bodies after knocking them out no different to any MGS other than not looking as fancy, you may pickpocket them without them noticing if they happen to have items you need like objective required keys, visible on their person without having to search them after the fact, different types of lights are interactive in different ways as you can blow out torches and candles in various ways, find switches, generators, etc., you have an increasing number of tools at your disposal that eventually means that, as level layouts eventually aren't conveniently laying out all the right surface types and darkness levels to let you freely wander so you basically device your own risky paths, etc. And all of it just building on 98's original game.

What's so outdated about any of that? Just because you watched some ninja player who knows the game inside out and exploits all the AI exact hearing and vision (without even a radar mind) and you don't even understand why he does all you see him do, what would go differently if he didn't do these exact steps you see as just random behavior that allows him to do anything he wants (and what he wants is apparently to bonk all heads), you don't even know what his objective is and any kind of progression and failure triggers, you just see him go from room to room taking out guards and looting items and it doesn't look as fancy as MGSV so it's bad?

This basically reeks of it being your first time seeing the game beyond having heard of it and its basic gist, after your own first kneejerk judgement of it, in an attempt to not investigate what it offers (at least try reviews that explain shit?) but to reinforce your pre existing, unwarranted opinion of it. Just play it, any toaster can run it nowadays and I guarantee you won't be the ninja in the video doing as you please and succeeding, just as people can exploit the AI of MGS, Spinter Cell, Crysis or pretty much any game and mess with it in effortless ways that do not at all showcase a player's actual experience when playing through them "blind" as anyone. Seeing as I just got in PC gaming around the year this released and it flew under the radar, was far from a commercial success, etc, I first played over a decade later and, yes, it's every bit as good (alongside the original) as anyone who appears like a fanboy will claim. Whether that makes it better than others is subjective.
Try some more backpedaling about how Thief is "decent" and "good" and how I'm on your back just because you don't think it's the greatest after all the "poorly outdated" in all respects and if you don't think so you're a PC fanboy (as if it didn't have the best version of all SC games) crap, lol. You like SC more, good for you. So did others here. You don't see me questioning Esppiral or anyone else, do you? Could it maybe be because they didn't claim bullshit like you? And where did you see me call Thief 2 the greatest of all time and act like you're wrong just because you don't think so? I've very deliberately addressed specific out of touch points you made, so what's with this baseless bullshit? It's certainly not anything I've written. Calling others trolls out of the blue doesn't justify your behavior. If you don't feel you need to justify it then good for you, so why then do you try to justify it by calling others out for replying to your own at best troll posts that had nothing of substance and merely insulted others? I didn't say anything high and mighty about myself, you just once again proclaimed you're better, like you said your preferences make you already, and in fact better than my "best", lol. Maybe you're right about me, but how does that address any of the above or justify your first post which didn't judge Thief 2 but anyone who thinks highly of it? That's all you did, all you keep doing, on top of meaningless adjectives and now silly comparisons. Are you for real? Come on.

And what do sales and poll ppularity have to do with a game's quality? So then you don't think Chaos Theory is the best stealth game, but Assassin's Creed 2 (or probably some newer one) is because, like Thief is niche compared to Splinter Cell, Splinter Cell is niche compared to that franchise? CT isn't even the best selling SC and MGS2 also sold more, lol. Just because you write something true (x thing sold more) doesn't mean your illogical conclusions and opinions regarding it are also true (the reason it sold/got voted less is its quality against x, etc.) or as objective as the fact. How do you claim to not get this? But once again, since it bears repeating as you keep taking things out of context and responding in ways that don't address my points, I didn't question your ranking which is the only thing a poll even shows but addressed specific things you claimed about Thief 2.
 
Last edited:

LazyParrot

Member
Mar 19, 2019
1,823
3,776
445
When taken as a whole... point out the drastic differences between Thief 2 stealth mechanics vs The Elder Scrolls Oblivion? Both have a rather similar movement system. Both have a stealth and detection system that somewhat similar. Both allow you to laughably pickpocket npc's. What are the vast differences between the two as far as just the stealth aspects?
What the fuck? Are you really claiming a game where stealth is literally a skill you can level until you become nearly invisible at the press of a button is comparable to Thief?
 
  • Like
Reactions: kuncol02
Apr 11, 2016
1,423
1,654
510
Shelookdlvl18 still going at it with the bullshit claims, huh ? When its clear from the moon that he didnt play nor has the slightest idea about the games and he quickly browsed a couple of youtube videos and then tries to present how stuff works and how it is. His posts are just console warring shit - and he completely misinterpreted how things are, saying how pc exclusives are usually inflated with no merit. Its the console exclusives that receive that treatment, never in my life have i heard this about PC games. Theres no corporation or demented fanbase behind PC to pump hot air in its games, everything the games ever achieve is based on pure merrit. A sony game has people pretending to be interested just by nature of being a sony game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RyuCookingSomeRice

carlosrox

Member
May 19, 2020
3,067
4,948
495
Splinter Cell Blacklist deserves a mention.

That game was fucking incredible.


Of the choices I'm gonna have to go with Chaos Theory. I still remember the demo for it on Xbox and it was the first taste I had for the upcoming gen. Looked fantastic.

I actually played it on PC and loved it to death. Splinter Cell is such a consistently high quality series.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Dec 25, 2019
11,129
20,964
1,025
Prague, Czech Republic
I vote for those two last Deus Ex(es) and Dishonored 2. I don't remember how good those old game were, as I lost memory throughout my life.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Feb 28, 2014
8,614
1,217
870
Second Sight. Amazing game, it actually gives the player abilities that help you sneak. My biggest complaint about most stealth games is that they're just action games that subtract the ability to be a badass and add in the ability to walk really slow.
 
Jul 24, 2016
617
200
475
Second Sight. Amazing game, it actually gives the player abilities that help you sneak. My biggest complaint about most stealth games is that they're just action games that subtract the ability to be a badass and add in the ability to walk really slow.
I mean outside of no weapon games you don't really have a choice.