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The Official Halo 3 Thread
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
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MiloFoxburr said:
On the discussion that multiplayer achievements break typical game behavior for the detriment of others in the match (specifically those that entered into matchmaking to play the game regularly).
See above for the lengthy debate.
Making excuses like easy kills, doesnt make the match anymore fun for those described individuals that don't care for achievements but subject to being stuck in a match with those that do.
I cringe everytime someone on my teams asks who needs their warthog spree, or flag assassinations.. shit like that. Like two days ago when we could have ended a match on Avalanche much sooner, but my teammates decided they wanted to pass the flag around and get kills with it instead. BORING!
I just put my controller down and fixed something to eat.
The achievements that are really going to break a future game...
Gears of War 2.
Achievements based on getting multiple kills with specific weapons, but the catch.. you can only log one per match :lol
Can't wait to see these idiots join the match. Get a kill with 5 different weapons, and quit out so they can start up the next match sooner. FUN TIMES! :lol
Way to go multiplayer achievements! WAY 2 GO!
Gears of War 2.
Achievements based on getting multiple kills with specific weapons, but the catch.. you can only log one per match :lol
Can't wait to see these idiots join the match. Get a kill with 5 different weapons, and quit out so they can start up the next match sooner. FUN TIMES! :lol
Way to go multiplayer achievements! WAY 2 GO!
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Dirtbag 504 said:
Give me a break, you lawl'd all the way to Fedex when we passed the Flag around waiting for our opponents to be baited into the Shotgun room.
DancingJesus
Banned
Dirtbag 504 said:
Except with those, you can earn them in singleplayer in addition to multiplayer. So the fastest way to most likely get them would be by playing the campaign. But that's a whole nother can of worms.
Dirtbag 504 said:
I don't care about rank. It doesn't represent 'skill'. It's a number representing your game history used for finding opponents with a similar game history. That is all. People who call Halo 3s matchmaking a fair competitive environment are confused. It isn't. The solution that dedicated servers may provide is a 'fair' networking experiance. P2P gaming isn't it.
Imagine if we had a GAF server/servers. We could control who's in and who's out. Cut out the douches who quit/cheat/whatever, deny them access to your server. Get sick of the GAF server? Take your party into another server. Halo 3 has such a huge community, there could be hundreds of 'fair' competitive servers. You'd also get the servers that have all the cheaters/boosters for exp/achievements. But really who cares? I don't. Just as long as I don't play with them.
Dirtbag 504 said:
Think of a global hopper, containing all of the possible Halo 3 online modes. THE MASTER GLOBAL HOPPER OF EVERYTHING. Then letting people pick what they want to play. Take that list and randomly searching from the global hopper. If you don't wanna make a list, or are happy with what Bungie provides, you can use the existing playlists as they are now. They would still pull from the global hopper of everything.
Dirtbag 504 said:
They don't exist to together, yet. How do you know they can't? Has someone tried? If Halo 3 matchmaking assigns host to one player/match automatically; P2P one person in the match is the host, so his/her 360 is acting like a server. Why couldn't it find a dedicated server for each match? Have a dedicated server farm that MS/Bungie host and give users the option to host their own. But really, I don't know how things work. It's nice to want things.
Louis Wu said:
Louis Wu said:
Yup. It's alot more fun that way.
sixthsubset
Banned
Dirtbag 504 said:
i don't know why you think that. look at blizzard's titles. their ladders and server lists have co-existed well for a long time now. it's just games like warcraft 3 have greater incentives for leveling, like ladders and neat icons.
and i think bungie could take a page from blizz's book and look into the thumps up/down for different maps and gametypes that make it more or less likely to run into them.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
All this playlist banter is giving me a headache. =(
backflip10019
Member
Dani said:
Same. Bungie's not going to do anything so it doesn't matter.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Dirtbag 504 said:
:lol
But seriously, as much of an achievement whore I am, MP achievements do suck. A lot.
But it was new content Bungie gave the Halo community as part of their second AU; something a lot of us were craving.
Pretty soon the vast majority of Halo 3 players will have most of their achievements so this period of people heavily going out of their way to achieve them will pass (hell, some are being taken care of by Bungie's auto-hammer). Not only that, but Shishka will increase Oddball's weighting accordingly, have special DBLXP playlist to help those who still need 'em (Legendary Brawl, LW's 8 players, etc.) and so forth.
It's not the number that matters, its the quality of the match you get from playing opponents closer to your team in skill. God, why are we still debating this?fin said:
Match making is the closest thing you get to a fair competitive environment, otherwise you control all the factors about the match (play to your strengths, remove all obstacles).
Imagine what you could do with forge and this system and picture how fucked searching for fair matches could quickly become.
You say it like customs games don't exist. You are perfectly entitled to form your own party and invite whoever you want.
You are going to get drastic differences in quality from match to match in both opponent skill level and connection, especially for the least popular maps / modes. Not to mention you've just complicated a system that is extremely smart and easy for the majority of users. So you've now sacrificed accessibility as well. But hey, won't have a problem finding slayer on the pit.
They won't exist together peacefully because its going to split the population of users between the two proposed systems (your custom server idea and MM playlists) and injure the superior playlist system. For MS to run dedicated servers for a game with as many global players as halo does would be cost-prohibitive, not to say that there wont be a time when this becomes affordable, or that user-hosted servers won't pop up. I feel like my annual live fee should cover MS run servers, and hope that one day such things are provided.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Dirtbag 504 said:
In theory.
Dirtbag 504 said:
You forget while H2 was out they had MM and a whole bunch of players were over on XBC with populated server lists having some of the most competitive games that were going on in H2.
But if both systems were to coexist on Live that would be great. I foresee it being standard practice in the future. You should have the ability to create/host a game and that game shows up on a server list with key parameters and a player seaching for a similar custom game will find your game among a list of others. Get bored of that and you can switch over to the MM system. (Where you can grind rank or whatever the fuck you want)
Furthermore hosting a master server list is not the same as having host servers. If a master list was an idea from the start of the game building process it wouldn't be too cost-prohibitive.
DancingJesus
Banned
Playlists are fine, they just need to be tweaked a bit to fit everyone's wants. Some bad decisions were made about what the general populace wants *cough* Head to Head* cough and the handling of BTB and DLC could of went smoother as well. The snipers gametype seems to be a sore subject also... I'm just saying. If these key issues could be fixed, I think there wouldn't be nearly as much complaining.
sixthsubset
Banned
Dirtbag 504 said:
not if you cut down on the number of playlists, completely taking out the socials, and providing better incentives for leveling.
i think things like achievements and gamerscore prove that a developer can control what the player does. it's just a matter of making them play matchmaking.
Imperial Hot
Banned
Hawt.
What does this have to do with what we are talking about?xxjuicesxx said:
I'm talking about splitting the population of a single game (in this case Halo 3).
If this is some halo 1 being the superior game argument, whatever. I don't have the energy to care. I'm sure the guys over on the MLG forums will be more then happy to play along.
I guess if you had this future looking ability, you might not find your account so banned now would you :lol
couldn't resist
It would be great if this dual system could exist without it weakening the MM system (even if it was only a little) but it's at the cost of a populated playlist system.
That's exactly what I'm arguing about when I say you would have to add a system at the cost of MM. This is a trade-off.sixthsubset said:
Yeah, more multiplayer achievements..... GREAT!
(See way above)
sixthsubset
Banned
Dirtbag 504 said:
i think the point more is that alot of the community was already split. alot of competitive players abandoned matchmaking and increased effort on bungie's part could lead to them becoming reinterested in ranked gameplay.
i don't think right now it would be a good idea to split it. measures would have to be taken to insure that playlists remain populated enough and search times aren't too long. but i think bungie could do it.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Dirtbag 504 said:
Meh apparently you're too fucking stupid to see what I was doing so let me break it down.
H2 was successful. SPLITTING THAT SINGLE GAME UP STILL DIDN"T DESTROY IT.
You said splitting up a server list and a MM section wouldn't work.
I said it worked in H2. So why not H3?
Got it now?
FOR THE 300th TIME:sixthsubset said:
IT'S NOT THE NUMBER, ITS THE FACT THAT I - ME, YOU, WHOEVER - FIND A MATCH THAT FITS MY SKILL LEVEL!
Not that the best halo gods aren't playing in MM. The more people you remove from this system, the less likely you are to find a match that matches your skill level providing adequate challenge.
So you are going to make a case for something without providing an actual solution?
sixthsubset
Banned
Dirtbag 504 said:
but it wouldn't be that much of a loss when you have readily accessible servers that you can host whatever game you like on. and if you're concerned about a casual level of play, add a server-only ranking system ala cs, where players are ranked against the play of the other players on the server. really, though, the level of seriousness in social playlists already is pretty poor anyways.
Dirtbag 504 said:Yeah, more multiplayer achievements..... GREAT!
(See way above)
you missed the point. i'm saying incentives, and that achievements are a case in which the developer made people interested in things. an improved ranking system, a higher level cap, nation-wide tourneys for certain players, and ladders would do the trick. they're all things that have worked in other games like blizzard's to keep a matchmaking population steady.
sixthsubset
Banned
Dirtbag 504 said:
why are you typing in caps? that's pretty much what i wrote. bungie needs to get those people back into matchmaking.
Dirtbag 504 said:
*sigh* i said "right now." at this point in time, it wouldn't work out because the incentives for playing matchmaking over server-list custom games are too weak. and i did provide solutions; not that i know if they will work because i'm not clairvoyant but they could possibly.
The Librarian
Banned
Jesus people.
Gamevee still hasn't uploaded my best game on Rat's Nest. Damn.
Gamevee still hasn't uploaded my best game on Rat's Nest. Damn.
The Librarian
Banned
Oh yeah, forgot about that.:lolGhaleonEB said:
xxjuicesxx said:
Admittedly, I didn't look very often (probably not more than 2 or 3 times in total, in fact), but each time I checked, the XBC population playing Halo 2 was something under 1% of the XBL population playing Halo 2.
I'm not sure I'd call that 'splitting up the population'.
Oh you mean those guys too cheap to pay for a live account so they played Halo 2 over xbc connect instead of on live, I actually forgot about this entirely. This is no where near the same thing. I'd guess at least 3/4's of the halo population didn't even know this was possible. And I'd love to see the numbers on how many people actually played like this vs. on live.xxjuicesxx said:
If you build this custom games server ability into the game, it will have a much larger effect then this XBC ever did. Don't be so naive.
You get final retort, because I'm done replying with you. All yours.
sixthsubset
Banned
Dirtbag 504 said:
not that i think juices is right about that it really affected the population so significantly, but do you remember the cheating? that's why alot of people played xbc, not because they were cheap.
xxjuicesxx
Member
O I know it was a really small group. It just would be nice if Bungie incorporated BOTH into its game. I mean its probably not possible or feasible for H3. Maybe the next one.
Like how you can switch from Live to Local to Campaign to Custom to MM they could split Custom into Host and Find.
I don't think it would be a cut because everyone really enjoys MM. Plus it would still be the only place you can rank up in. Maybe more people would even log on if both were available?
?
Like how you can switch from Live to Local to Campaign to Custom to MM they could split Custom into Host and Find.
I don't think it would be a cut because everyone really enjoys MM. Plus it would still be the only place you can rank up in. Maybe more people would even log on if both were available?
?
damn u all need to chill out and watch my squad killtac
http://www.gamevee.com/viewVideo/Halo_3/GeeVee/killtac_squad/955836
http://www.gamevee.com/viewVideo/Halo_3/GeeVee/killtac_squad/955836
sixthsubset
Banned
xxjuicesxx said:
and really how can any of us know if this would really work? we don't. we just have ideas.
DancingJesus
Banned
Cuckooo said:
Nicely done.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
TDG said:
From what we've all heard, seen, and read (achievements and what not), the maps seem to be primed and ready to go, but something is holding them back. Whatever it is, it's a shame it's holding them back from at least being revealed on Bnet and shown off.
Buttonbasher
Member
EDIT: Wrong thread.
EDIT 2: Actually right thread.
Kibbles
Member
That 'it' would be Microsoft. *shakes fist at Microsoft*Domino Theory said:From what we've all heard, seen, and read (achievements and what not), the maps seem to be primed and ready to go, but something is holding them back. Whatever it is, it's a shame it's holding them back from at least being revealed on Bnet and shown off.
backflip10019
Member
Cuckooo said:
Dirty. Nice yob.
I'm starting to fear that it's going to be a long wait before we get to play these new maps. God, how long ago were the Legendary ones released, it feels like ages. We've pretty much gotten a blowout on Assembly but haven't heard a word about the the other 5 (or was it 6?) other maps. I know that from a business standpoint Bungie (or more accurately MS) would want their disc to remain in people's homes for as long as possible so spacing the maps out as far as possible would ensure that fans kept going back every 6 months. But I don't want to wait 6 months, I don't want to be bored sick of the last pack before the new one touches ground. It's unrealistic but I'd rather have a wave of additional content so the entire experience feels new, even if that comes at the expense of shortening the game's overall lifespan.Domino Theory said:From what we've all heard, seen, and read (achievements and what not), the maps seem to be primed and ready to go, but something is holding them back. Whatever it is, it's a shame it's holding them back from at least being revealed on Bnet and shown off.
And:
MM > Barbaric server lists
If you can't muster up a friends list big enough to do customs then you're probably a unpleasant person. Even I could fake like I enjoy someone enough so they'd want to play with me.
SP/Co-op achievements > MP achievements
Annual proves this. And go ahead and jump into DLC BTB to see what MP achievements do.
Coming from the guy dying to get the warthog achievement...Ramirez said:
Someone has a pussy gamerscore...Ramirez said:
I'm talking about Ramirez
And Boom Blox > Battlefield: Bad Company
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
EazyB said:
Not to mention we have the achievements for the Mythic Map Pack in our gamercards to view at any time. I just don't get why they won't/can't talk about the maps when Microsoft authorized and approved AU2 (since these kinds of things have to go through Microsoft's certification process).
That's like Epic giving me an alpha build of Gears 2's MP, yet telling me everyday "We have not announced our next project yet. Stay tuned." ;p
EazyB said:
.
And who at Bungie did I piss off that they removed my Recon?
I haven't done anything wrong. I checked my armor today while I was roaming around the MP maps and only my chest-plate (non-Recon) loaded. If it's the lack of map pack gifting, I've been using my money lately on college books, food, etc.EazyB said:
:O. Bad Company is awesome. Slowly stopped playing it over the summer; hoping to get back into it with the new, free maps coming out.
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