Some clueless PS fanboyWho is this guy?
Some clueless PS fanboyWho is this guy?
PS5 land of nanite demo is ~2496x1404p actually should reach above coalition demo at max 1440p while in reality it should be other way around given that XSX has 2 more Tflops also dev said PS5 is comfortably in budget for 60FPS games.This demo ran at a average of 46fps, while the PS5 demo was not 1440p either. It was dynamic resolution with the average just coming in at under 1440p.
It is a Microsoft studio. So they wont go directly in the media and ask for what the ps5 is doing right because that will cause negative press and it will insult the xbox brand. It is clear from both the PS5 demo and Series x/s demo which one of them is using the UE5 features better and the reason for that is very clear. All the other bottlenecks are secondary and most of the improvements/optimisations will apply to both consoles.During the yesterday's presentation the guy listed what eats up the most computing power, with precise render times even, highlighted what/where are the bottlenecks (some aren't even related to the engine itself), and none of the things have anything to do with the I/O, like Lumen or TSR, they even listed precise both fixed and streaming memory pools, which are just mere tens-hundreds of MB (hence why PC's with ordinary 500Mbps SATA SSD outperform consoles). A simple drag and drop from Megascan collection will give the results you see on countless YT vids, but those kind of creations don't have a single gameplay-related line of code, no practical application, no nothing, it's just a static mesh, nothing more, whereas this demo takes into account assets and workflow that indeed takes place during an actual game development, the foliage doesn't even use Nanite for example, which leaves place for actual physics and animation for the actual games.
So it's only your impression about the demos then? Because they never claimed anything regarding needing an I/O bandwith as big as PS5's. In fact, every time Epic talked about UE5, except from that first time, they have claimed Lumen to be the bottleneck on the engine and that doesn't have anything to do with I/O. If you look at youtube there are a lot of videos showing The valley of the Ancients demo running on mechanical HDDs without loss of performance.They are a microsoft studio. So they wont go and ask for what the ps5 is doing right directly in the media because that will cause negative press and it will insult the xbox brand. It is clear from both the PS5 demo and Series x/s demo which one of them is using the UE5 features better and the reason for that is very clear. All the other bottlenecks are secondary and apply to both consoles.
Please, everyone who is technical minded, whatch this instead:
Some things to note:
- They are fully saturating XSX GPU
- They are currently ALU bound
- The streaming pool is quite small
- DCC tools are the bottleneck
- Need to change the way of doing some things on Nanite meshes due to limitations (i.e. no vertex paint on instances)
That seems to imply GPUs with more CUs will be able to squeeze it further
Epic always said that their first demo can run on all platforms, but the quality will depend on the tech. we were waiting for the same demo or another demo running on series x that shows identical quality to the first demo. But we still don't have one. So for me the first demo is a Proof of why I/O is essential. Until another demo shows up to do just that, theory and demonstration indicate logically that this is the case. I'm assuming IF Microsoft catch up in pc space, i'm sure that they will release another hardware iteration that is even better than the ps5 i/o architecture. Then we can argue which studio is leveraging that high level i/o streaming. But for now, lets hope we see studios releasing games with this tech in the next 2 years... It is just more fun if this new demo was more impressive, sadly it isn't. But a good progress nonetheless. Compared to halo this is current gen and awesome.So it's only your impression about the demos then? Because they never claimed anything regarding needing an I/O bandwith as big as PS5's. In fact, every time Epic talked about UE5, except from that first time, they have claimed Lumen to be the bottleneck on the engine and that doesn't have anything to do with I/O. If you look at youtube there are a lot of videos showing The valley of the Ancients demo running on mechanical HDDs without loss of performance.
Having big I/O bandwith will be better for some things but at least until now, we don't have any proof whatsoever that it will be beneficial for UE5 usage.
Here is some woke dosage for you guys, enjoy:
2496x1404 IS pretty much 1440p (2560x1440) lol, and this was the average resolution for the entire demo.This demo ran at a average of 46fps, while the PS5 demo was not 1440p either. It was dynamic resolution with the average just coming in at under 1440p.
I never said it wasn't close to 1440p, just that it was dynamic as well. We have no idea what the XSX demo was averaging resolution wise, nor do we know what the FPS of the PS5 demo was other than a locked 30FPS.2496x1404 IS pretty much 1440p (2560x1440) lol, and this was the average resolution for the entire demo.
Lack of evidence is not evidence in itself.Epic always said that their first demo can run on all platforms, but the quality will depend on the tech. we were waiting for the same demo or another demo running on series x that shows identical quality to the first demo. But we still don't have one. So for me the first demo is a Proof of why I/O is essential. Until another demo shows up to do just that, theory and demonstration indicate logically that this is the case. I'm assuming IF Microsoft catch up in pc space, i'm sure that they will release another hardware iteration that is even better than the ps5 i/o architecture. Then we can argue which studio is leveraging that high level i/o streaming. But for now, lets hope we see studios releasing games with this tech in the next 2 years... It is just more fun if this new demo was more impressive, sadly it isn't. But a good progress nonetheless. Compared to halo this is current gen and awesome.
I remember Epic engineers saying that the PS5 UE5 Demo ran at ~45 FPS, and can hit 60 FPS with further optimizations.I never said it wasn't close to 1440p, just that it was dynamic as well. We have no idea what the XSX demo was averaging resolution wise, nor do we know what the FPS of the PS5 demo was other than a locked 30FPS.
Ray tracing can be done with a gtx1080 card. Likewise, UE5 features can be done with HDD, but it wont be the same quality as [SSD and PS5 I/O].Lack of evidence is not evidence in itself.
I suppose you agree when I say that this demo is proof of why some-random-tech-only-in-xsx is essential then. We don't have evidence of this demo running anywhere else
So much this.That human model, means nothing if animation is not top notch. Kind of a disappointing demo. I liked the UE 5 unveiling more. This kind of detail is needed only for cinematics. I do not see the practical use to have this level of detail for an ingame model, unless on extreme close ups during gameplay where the camera is really close to the character when is covering from gunfire. And cinematics is what a "a lot"(really a few) of gamers really hate.
I guess it wasn't enough that the video was initially presented by a trans woman who starts her introduction by announcing her pronouns.
And the rainbow flag in full prominence behind her. Live and let live, but you gotta laugh when people just make it all about themselves and their identity. Narcissistic complex.Yeah, I initially turned off the presentation as soon as I heard that. Is that really something we need to know when you're doing a tech presentation? SMH. I went back and skipped passed "her" part, the rest of the talk was really good though.
Microsoft's press releases with interviews and such do that, so get used to it. It's not that big of a deal.I guess it wasn't enough that the video was initially presented by a trans woman who starts her introduction by announcing her pronouns.
Pretty petty and rude to use quotations there.Yeah, I initially turned off the presentation as soon as I heard that. Is that really something we need to know when you're doing a tech presentation? SMH. I went back and skipped passed "her" part, the rest of the talk was really good though.
So what the alpha point of this? Not a game, just someone flexing UE5? Already hundreds of videos showing that.....
Should of made a ue5 Craig, for comparison
I was underwhelmed by blast processing.. So you should be comfortable with this demoUnderwhelmed by the technical demo.
According to Alex from DF who watched the Alpha Point live presentation before it was releasedI never said it wasn't close to 1440p, just that it was dynamic as well. We have no idea what the XSX demo was averaging resolution wise, nor do we know what the FPS of the PS5 demo was other than a locked 30FPS.
Alex DF said:They worded this a bit confusingly in the presentation. For the demo video out on Youtube it is locked at 30 fps and uses DRS to up image quality as much as possible, hence the floating internal resolution.
In the second half of the presentation when they mention 46 fps average, it is actually essentially running at 1080p (they call it 50% of 4K which actually is 50% axis scale of 4K) the entire time. They kind of say it an round about way probably because saying it is running at 1080p has bad PR optics, but makes a lot of sense for UE5.
That 46 fps average is basically at 1080p TSR-> 4K. That is why they spent the other portion of the presentation talking about 1080p TSR-> 4K quality, and gave out all the Lumen, Nanite, etc. performance numbers from 1080p TSR internal res.
Penwarden Epic said:"So, when GPU load gets high we can lower the screen resolution a bit and then we can adapt to that. In the demo we actually did use dynamic resolution, although it ends up rendering at about 1440p most of the time."
Can you post some of those quotes? They never said thatthere were statements by the creators of the first Demo that this level of streaming requires [ps5's I/O architecture
Unreal 5 was NOT released 8 months ago. What are you talking about console launch for? This wasn't meant to be a Xbox hardware demo. it was a tech demo using unreal.A tech demo after 8 months of release? Isn't that supposed to come before console launch?
Its clear which looks better. first pic has far more realistic hair. While PS4 last of us looks good, i don't think it can compete with unreal 5 characters.
Can you post some of those quotes? They never said that
'' the latter features a faster SSD and, according to Sweeney, is one of the reasons why the tech demo was unveiled using on the PS5 rather than on the Xbox Series X or even a PC. ''
Epic Games Says PS5 Unreal Engine 5 Demo Also Runs On Xbox Series X
The features powering the UE5 demo is also supported by the Xbox Series X.screenrant.com
He describes how PS5 renders a texture highly efficiently, fetching it from the high-speed SSD decompressed, into video memory in the exact place it's needed. This is thanks to PS5's IO (or input-output) system, which according to Epic's VP of engineering Nick Penwarden, is "the major innovation with the next-generation console hardware. They have faster CPUs, they have faster GPUs, and that was really important to be able to achieve the visuals that we showed – but the biggest change across console generations is absolutely going to be the IO bandwidth that we're able to achieve with the SSDs that are in next-generation consoles."
Pixels – and triangles. The buzzword of that tech demo is key to understanding how Nanite works, why PS5 has made it possible, and why it's such a huge leap forward. Import a film-quality asset such as a photogrammetry scan or ZBrush sculpt made up of millions of polygons – say, the statue in the tech demo – into Nanite, and the engine will automatically render it on a scalable triangle-per-pixel basis. The system memory preserves the infinite amount of detail from the model, but Nanite uses the speed of PS5's SSD to near-instantly stream in on demand only the data – and the triangles, be they millions or even billions – needed to display what the camera (and your eyes) are capable of seeing.
"We're able to show the difference from what's possible today with what's possible tomorrow": Inside Epic's Unreal Engine 5
Edge speaks to the wizards behind Epic Games' next-generation game enginewww.gamesradar.com
“It has an immense amount of GPU power, but also multi-order bandwidth increase in storage management. That’s going to be absolutely critical,” he says. “It’s one thing to render everything that can fit in memory,” he adds, but a much more impressive feat to render a world that “might be tens of gigabytes in size” almost instantaneously, as Sony’s new console and its M.2 solid-state drive are promising.
Epic CEO Tim Sweeney says the PS5 is so impressive it’s ‘going to help drive future PCs’
Epic and Sony have been working closely together, and Sweeney is impressed.www.theverge.com
But for developers who do want to build games using the most up-to-date technology, UE5’s big advancements come in a pair of new development tools around graphical detail in objects and lighting, as well as a deep commitment from Epic to support next-gen game development. In fact, Sweeney says Epic has been working closely with Sony for years now on ensuring UE5 can best utilize the upcoming PlayStation's unique architecture.
“Sony has really done an awesome job of architecting a great system,” Sweeney says. “The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now. It’s going to help drive future PCs. They’re going to see this thing ship and say, ‘Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this.’” The PS5, combined with tools like UE5, will enable “nothing but seamless, continuous worlds, and you can have this degree of fidelity going on for as many kilometers and gigabytes as you wish,” Sweeney adds.
Epic Games announces Unreal Engine 5 with stunning PlayStation 5 demo
Epic says its new engine will arrive next year, after the new consoles launch.www.theverge.com
ResetEra member Matt, who is a developer as well, revealed that the PS5's SSD will feature I/O speeds which are "on a whole other level." He states that while the Xbox Series X has a pretty great I/O setup which is better than what is available in the market right now, the PS5’s I/O "feels like it was taken from an IO-focused mid-gen upgrade 4 years from now." While the introduction of SSDs in both consoles will lead to significant advancements in gaming, the better overall setup of the PS5's SSD will allow developers to do things that can't be replicated on any other platform. Matt had earlier revealed that he had seen the PS5 in action himself.
In hindsight, I think what they are saying is that they chose PS5 to debut the demo because the IO subsystems are really impressive. That’s not to say same demo cannot be optimized to run on Series X at similar if not slightly better performance. In my opinion
..etc
Extra:
Yes even though we haven't seen it, it is possible, but we must take all the quotes into context..In hindsight, I think what they are saying is that they chose PS5 to debut the demo because the IO subsystems are really impressive. That’s not to say same demo cannot be optimized to run on Series X at similar if not slightly better performance. In my opinion
You never read that. But they actually said it.Can you post some of those quotes? They never said that
..etc
Extra:
No, they never said it was a requirement. I think it should be clear it isn't when UE5 runs with Nanite and Lumen without a SSD.You never read that. But they actually said it.
..etc
Extra:
How many people here are game developers? people saying they were disappointed by a presentation designed for game developers are stretching. To that i say "ok you didn't like it, so what??" it wasn't aimed at you anyway.
The response from most here was easy to predict.
It is up to you to make sense of these sources. As long we are honest with each other it is ok to differ. Time will clear things for us.I'd take it with a grain of salt. It seems like Sweeny was more impressed with the theoretical speed of the PS5's SSD, and they simply choose to go that route. These articles were published before the two consoles were released and real-world data has them pretty much neck and neck. It may have been their preference to go with the PS5 but, nothing would suggest that the Series X isn't capable of meeting the baseline performance standards of UE5. There's a lot of brilliant people working with the hardware in this industry, so nothing is impossible.
Taken from ScreenRant:
While it has been confirmed that the Xbox Series X supports the technologies that are featured in Unreal Engine 5, it isn’t entirely clear whether the console will be able to run the UE5 Tech Demo at the same graphical fidelity and performance as the PS5. Although some of the specifications of the Xbox Series X are said to be more powerful than the PS5 on paper, the latter features a faster SSD and, according to Sweeney, is one of the reasons why the tech demo was unveiled using on the PS5 rather than on the Xbox Series X or even a PC.
Regardless of whether the recently released UE5 tech demo runs exactly the same on the Xbox Series X or not, tech demos are canned experiences and are usually far from what actual released games on their respective consoles will look like. So it will be exciting to see just how far game developers will be able to fully utilize and optimize the capabilities of the new game engine, whether they’re making titles for the PS5, Xbox Series X, or both.
Nice upgrade, but not a generational leap. We kind of peaked 2015. Stop wasting hardware resources on useless details. We need better lighting, animations ffs.
1.84 TFlops
To me, the beard looks bad. Something is off with the hair compared with Mr. Moustache. Sure it has better shaders, better textures but we´re comparing a 3D game model from 2015 with one from 2021 using latest and greatest technology.
I was not that impressed with the girl flying around in the PS5 demo either. Maybe the guys behind The Order 1886 are simply better at their métier aka visual artists. I´m not yet impressed with the lighting at display here.
For one, the benchmark is scripted?, a fly through like 3D Mark 2001se (not cpu taxing at all). And the character, that beard looks, "feels" off. The beard from the mr.moustache (order) guy, could be a bitmap?, yet it "feels" more real to me.
The other does not cast shadows and looks like it´s "floating"? Looks better than this guy though
It's a great time for gaming in terms of tech. Developers have so many options to choose from in a sense they can pick a platform that best suits their overall vision.It is up to you to make sense of these sources. As long we are honest with each other it is ok to differ. Time will clear things for us.
You are right in that it is really exciting when we imagine it in both microsoft and sony games [like gears and games like days gone]. It will be a huge leap if they succeed.
thelastwords ultimate formWho is this guy?
They are always doing the most, per usualFor anyone wondering, here's Kotaku's awful take on this:
Just now seeing this but ... a lot of that work was building out the engine and the associated technology wasn't it? They expressly said part of their goals with UE5 was ease of content creation because they know how hard it is to create high quality assets at scale.Epic worked for that demo half a year spending a million or so but was more a marketing for ps5 then a showcase for the industry imho
No,i say the purpose is different,and epic worked in houseJust now seeing this but ... a lot of that work was building out the engine and the associated technology wasn't it? They expressly said part of their goals with UE5 was ease of content creation because they know how hard it is to create high quality assets at scale.
So in effect, you don't think the UE5 reveal, was a showcase for ... UE5 and where that engine was headed?
I'm not sure I understand your point. You're admitting the first demo was better looking and more complete but are saying that's because of ... marketing reasons? Huh?
I honestly don't understand what you're trying to get across.
No,i say the purpose is different...
Work on the demo began in September of 2019 with a team of about two dozen developers from Epic Games and support studio Quixel, which it had acquired in the previous year
Same as coalition i think...
A tech demo after 8 months of release? Isn't that supposed to come before console launch?
Unreal 5 was NOT released 8 months ago. What are you talking about console launch for? This wasn't meant to be a Xbox hardware demo. it was a tech demo using unreal.