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Team Ninja Explains Why They Chose to Launch Wo Long Fallen Dynasty Day One on Game Pass

The_Mike

Member
Wo Long is coming to Game Pass and the developer talks about why they choose to do it.

Q: Wo Long is going to be day one on Game Pass. What made the team want to go the Game Pass route and how, if it has, already benefitted the team?

Yasuda-san:
This is a first for us being day one on Xbox Game Pass.
While we’re making a really, really hard game and we’re not sure what everyone will think of that, but by making it available day one on Game Pass so many players that maybe never played this game before will have a chance to do that and we’ll get even more players around the world than ever before.
So yeah, this is a big first for us at Koei Tecmo Games and Team Ninja as well and it’s something we’re really excited about.

We also think it’ll be really great for the multiplayer with so many people to play with and really increase the number of people you have available to join your party and take on bosses.

https://mp1st.com/news/team-ninja-e...h-wo-long-fallen-dynasty-day-one-on-game-pass

TL: DR developer probably got money covering most of the development cost and accepted.

Win for everyone.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
While we’re making a really, really hard game and we’re not sure what everyone will think of that, but by making it available day one on Game Pass so many players that maybe never played this game before will have a chance to do that and we’ll get even more players around the world than ever before.

I mean, he's absolutely right. I don't really play these kinds of games but because this is on game pass I'll definitely try it.

Great for subscribers and I hope they got a good deal from MS for the day 1.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I Agree Barack Obama GIF by The Democrats
 

//DEVIL//

Member
This feels to me they are just trying to justify to Sony and Japanese gamers on PlayStation why they are on game pass and please understand you still have to pay full price on PlayStation while since we don’t sell much on Xbox , game pass will give us good money from MS straight up
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This feels to me they are just trying to justify to Sony and Japanese gamers on PlayStation why they are on game pass and please understand you still have to pay full price on PlayStation while since we don’t sell much on Xbox , game pass will give us good money from MS straight up


Reaction GIF
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The ones that can actually shine a light regarding the drama around Game Pass.

Just like Box Office numbers, streaming charts and shit like that.

But none of the gaming services like PS+, Stadia, Geforce Now or GP ever reveal those numbers. I don't think we'll ever get precise nuanced metrics like that because with those services a person could have played 10 minutes of 100 hours, it's probably nowhere as easy to track as a unit sold at retail.
 
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ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
But none of the gaming services like PS+, Stadia, Geforce Now or GP ever reveal those numbers. I don't think we'll ever get that because with those services a person could have played 10 minutes of 100 hours, it's probably nowhere as easy to track as a unit sold at retail.
Game Pass is causing all the meltdowns.

Some peole swear is not sustainable, profitable or whatever.

And with no data, we can't have any real idea about it.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Game Pass is causing all the meltdowns.

Some peole swear is not sustainable, profitable or whatever.

And with no data, we can't have any real idea about it.

Bernd Lauert Bernd Lauert did a great breakdown of the revenue generated based on the MS earning reports, I can't find it right now but if he can it'd be great to post it again.

But the gist of it was that game pass subs alone are making around ~$180 million on a monthly basis. Smaller indie games get $600k or so for 1 to 2 years, bigger games like Guardians between 5 to 10 millions. I think the service is easily sustainable, if not the biggest earner for MS, based on the little we know. Which is why Phil also used the word sustainable when talking about GP.
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Bernd Lauert Bernd Lauert did a great breakdown of the revenue generated based on the MS earning reports, I can't find it right now but if he can it'd be great to post it again.

But the gist of it was that game pass subs alone are making around ~$180 million on a monthly basis. Smaller indie games get $600k or so for 1 to 2 years, bigger games like Guardians between 5 to 10 millions. I think the service is easily sustainable, if not the biggest earner for MS, based on the little we know. Which is why Phil also used the word sustainable when talking about GP.

I have seen the arguments on both sides. If we could have the official receipts, some people actually would shut up once and for all. Until then, everything is wet dreams on each sides.
 
Microsoft clearly expects subscription services to be the best way forward. My belief is that consolidation of the whole game buying & game playing process is efficient in the sense that you get recurrent subscription payments, plus you get all the data and can figure out habits and the optimal amount to charge. You also prevent people from owning games, so they're dependent on that subscription forever and will tolerate more from you— you can make the service worse and worse as a cost-cutting measure and people will tolerate it. But they also have to account for the differences in average payment amounts. In other words, the "whales" of gaming are paying as about as much for a sub... but they want to gouge these people... I suppose the solution is to include free-to-play games into the integrated Microsoft store that have aggressive microtransactions and levy them for those and push those games to Gamepass subs on the front page...

...wait, this is all satanic. I feel bad for writing that. But it's what I expect will happen once they solidify their position.

Also though, the people who keep talking about Gamepass on this forum seem neurotic. I've seen people (small children probs) posting like everyone knows what games are on gamepass and are persecuting them on that basis. Nobody cares about Gamepass other than people who sub to it; I only care about the games bro
 

geary

Member
If you buy any MTX/DLC for a gamepass game, if you buy it later and unsubscribe, can you still the MYX/DLC?
 

Ozriel

Member
This feels to me they are just trying to justify to Sony and Japanese gamers on PlayStation why they are on game pass and please understand you still have to pay full price on PlayStation while since we don’t sell much on Xbox , game pass will give us good money from MS straight up

with that reach, you might actually have a chance against Tyson Fury
 

Chukhopops

Member
Don't worry the gold to GP conversion might end in the near future making 15 euro a month the standard price.
GPU in Euro is 12.99 though, and I doubt it will go up since MS is really far behind in most Euro countries. Basicaly six months of GP = one full price €79 game.
If you buy any MTX/DLC for a gamepass game, if you buy it later and unsubscribe, can you still the MYX/DLC?
You mean if you buy the game later? If so, yes.
 
Bernd Lauert Bernd Lauert did a great breakdown of the revenue generated based on the MS earning reports, I can't find it right now but if he can it'd be great to post it again.

But the gist of it was that game pass subs alone are making around ~$180 million on a monthly basis. Smaller indie games get $600k or so for 1 to 2 years, bigger games like Guardians between 5 to 10 millions. I think the service is easily sustainable, if not the biggest earner for MS, based on the little we know. Which is why Phil also used the word sustainable when talking about GP.
You can’t calculate like that. Taxes, maintenance, server cost etc are a thing. Plus It’s no where near MS biggest earner. That would be Office / Azure.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
I have seen the arguments on both sides. If we could have the official receipts, some people actually would shut up once and for all. Until then, everything is wet dreams on each sides.
Welll... If it were truly unstainable it'd reflect in their stock price, and write offs. Seems that's not happening, in fact, the opposite. So dunno who needs to prove anything when reality says it's just fine (after multiple years running).
 
Bernd Lauert Bernd Lauert did a great breakdown of the revenue generated based on the MS earning reports, I can't find it right now but if he can it'd be great to post it again.

But the gist of it was that game pass subs alone are making around ~$180 million on a monthly basis. Smaller indie games get $600k or so for 1 to 2 years, bigger games like Guardians between 5 to 10 millions. I think the service is easily sustainable, if not the biggest earner for MS, based on the little we know. Which is why Phil also used the word sustainable when talking about GP.
Yeah, according to Ampere analysis, which puts the "games content subscription market" (everything except for the old PS+ and Xbox Live Gold) at $3.7b for 2021, Gamepass owns 60%, or $2.2b of that market. That comes down to $183m of revenue a month.
 

IDKFA

Gold Member
This is a great move in the right direction. Hopefully we're close to a day when all third party games are released on Gamepass (or PS plus) on day one.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
The ones that can actually shine a light regarding the drama around Game Pass.

Just like Box Office numbers, streaming charts and shit like that.

First, they get paid to put their game on their in the first place, so that might be the only receipt they ever require.

And if you're talking about "streaming charts" is that not the number of players that are attracted to the game or what the actual companies who put the games into game pass have to say? Or the fact that each time a big enough game is dropped into game pass it literally rockets to the most played games not just on game pass, but on xbox live as a whole. Microsoft actually differentiates the paid version from the game pass version on all their most played games charts. Forza Horizon 5 that's top 12 is actually the paid version, which is might impressive.

That Disney game Dreamlight Valley is top 5 on Game Pass and #18 (the game pass version) on Xbox overall. So "streaming charts" that tell you the impact Game Pass is having do already exist if people choose to use them. That's the current Xbox top 18.




Scarlet Nexus crediting Game Pass for helping to push the game to over 2 million players while also boasting about total sales.





Square Enix says putting Outriders on Game Pass worked in its favor.

https://www.eurogamer.net/square-en...rs-on-xbox-game-pass-has-worked-in-its-favour

Dirt 5 dev says Game Pass gave their game a huge boost in player counts, and even after the initial big first week, he said it was sustained and still growing.



Phil has also explained that deals for Game Pass aren't one size fits all. Each is tailor made for dev and company. Some are paid up front one time, others are paid based on usage or access, and the exact terms will obviously never be told to us, but there are a lot of partners who are pretty happy with Game Pass.

This explains it best.

https://www.theverge.com/21611412/m...nterview-xbox-series-x-launch-decoder-podcast



How do you pay out developers? I’m a developer, I make a game, I say I’m going to put it in Game Pass, a customer pays [you] $14.99 a month. How do you decide how much to pay me, the developer?

Our deals are, I’ll say, all over the place.
That sounds unmanaged, but it’s really based on the developer’s need. One of the things that’s been cool to see is a developer, usually a smaller to mid-sized developer, might be starting a game and say, “hey, we’re willing to put this in Game Pass on our launch day if you guys will give us X dollars now.” What we can go do is, we’ll create a floor for them in terms of the success of their game. They know they’re going to get this return.
[In] certain cases, we’ll pay for the full production cost of the game. Then they get all the retail opportunity on top of Game Pass. They can go sell it on PlayStation, on Steam, and on Xbox, and on Switch. For them, they’ve protected themselves from any downside risk. The game is going to get made. Then they have all the retail upside, we have the opportunity for day and date. That would be a flat fee payment to a developer.
Sometimes the developer’s more done with the game and it’s more just a transaction of, “Hey, we’ll put it in Game Pass if you’ll pay us this amount of money.”

Others want [agreements] more based on usage and monetization in whether it’s a store monetization that gets created through transactions, or usage.
We’re open [to] experimenting with many different partners, because we don’t think we have it figured out. When we started, we had a model that was all based on usage. Most of the partners said, “Yeah, yeah, we understand that, but we don’t believe it, so just give us the money upfront.”


Translation: if your game is in game pass, chances are the developer or publisher already worked out a financial arrangement that has already helped their game's profitability or the bottom line of the company cutting the deal, removing all risk associated, or guaranteeing them a minimum floor for success. So the types of quality games that are showing up are a sign that those developers or companies came away happy. Only studio we really know of getting screwed was People Can Fly by Square Enix with Outriders, where all the money went to them and apparently none of it went to People Can Fly.
 

SenjutsuSage

Halo TV Series Promoter - Live from: Reach
Game Pass is causing all the meltdowns.

Some peole swear is not sustainable, profitable or whatever.

And with no data, we can't have any real idea about it.

The CEO of Microsoft Gaming says its, "very, very sustainable right now." That they're not burning cash or anything like that, and invites people to do the math. All I know is there ain't nobody going around having $1 deals for months on end cause you need an entirely different credit or debit card to get that every single time, or you're just charged full price for either regular Game Pass or Ultimate.



https://www.gamespot.com/articles/p...r has,a creative and engagement perspective."

But Spencer doesn't agree. "It's not the only thing that's growing in Xbox. It's not the only focus of the organization, and it, as a standalone thing, is very sustainable as it sits today, just like today. It's sustainable," Spencer said. "I know there are a lot of people that like to write, 'We're burning cash right now for some future pot of gold at the end.' No. Game Pass is very, very sustainable right now as it sits and continues to grow."

"Yeah. I mean, you could do the math on Game Pass. I guess you don't know how many subscribers or how much each subscriber is paying," he added. "But you can make some fairly informed decisions and literally just do the math on what we think Game Pass could eventually be--you could do that on any part of the business. But absolutely, Game Pass is sustainable."
 

anthony2690

Gold Member
I feel like if you're a developer who hasn't released a game on Xbox before or in a very long time (in koei tecmo's case)
I think releasing on game pass is a good idea, to bring more eyes/players to your game & if it is well received/liked by the players, they will probably continue to follow your future output, assuming they continue to release on Xbox.

I'm actually really hoping guilty gear strive on game pass, will bring arc system works back long term, the game will be the hands off 20 million+ game pass users, it is really accessible for a guilty gear game too.
 

MOTM

Banned
Graphics looks last gen and haven’t played a team ninja game since NG Black but I’ll give this a shot thanks to Gamepass.
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
If you buy any MTX/DLC for a gamepass game, if you buy it later and unsubscribe, can you still the MYX/DLC?
If you buy a game on disk, buy some MTX/DLC, do you still need the disk?

Yes, you still need the disk.

The alternative is that you get to own a game forever because you bought a single weapon skin for a character.

Same uncontroversial thing for gamepass.
 

KingT731

Member
I feel like if you're a developer who hasn't released a game on Xbox before or in a very long time (in koei tecmo's case)
I think releasing on game pass is a good idea, to bring more eyes/players to your game & if it is well received/liked by the players, they will probably continue to follow your future output, assuming they continue to release on Xbox.

I'm actually really hoping guilty gear strive on game pass, will bring arc system works back long term, the game will be the hands off 20 million+ game pass users, it is really accessible for a guilty gear game too.
Uhhh you might wanna go look at Koei Tecmo games released on Xbox they've been there. The Ninja Gaiden remasters are on GP atm as well....just fyi
 

KingT731

Member
I am clearly talking about new Tecmo Koei games and not remasters/downgrades.
Outside the Nintendo exclusives and niche stuff like the Atelier series and Blue Reflection a lot of their games are on Xbox. The "Warriors" games are there day 1 DoA etc. Why wouldn't you count remasters...especially if the game was platform specific previously for example the Fatal Frame games that were only on the Wii U
 

DragonNCM

Member
Don't worry the gold to GP conversion might end in the near future making 15 euro a month the standard price.
Lasr year me & may kids finished playing 30 games. Lets presume that if I get all this games with price of average 30$ that is 900$.
I saved 740$ with gamepass + most of this games ar play one time & never play it again.
Clearly BIG WIN for me.
 

anthony2690

Gold Member
Outside the Nintendo exclusives and niche stuff like the Atelier series and Blue Reflection a lot of their games are on Xbox. The "Warriors" games are there day 1 DoA etc. Why wouldn't you count remasters...especially if the game was platform specific previously for example the Fatal Frame games that were only on the Wii U
I guess now you mention all these games, they have more output than I realise on Xbox.

In my head I'm thinking the only recent games they have put out are ninja gaiden remaster & the fatal frame game.

I'm personally not into the warrior games so I kinda ignore them (didn't even realise they were Tecmo Koei tbh)

I guess the games must do well enough already on Xbox if they keep coming.
 
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