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[TheInfamousKira]

One negative on the new episode, which still haven't gone away from S1/2: Patrick Stewart's acting. He was the central force of the TV series, but he just doesn't seem to know how to play Picard anymore. He is playing himself, and I don't want to see Patrick, I want Picard--and entirely different person.

Frakes/Riker jumps back into his character easily and convincingly, but I still just don't see the real Picard on screen at all in these scenes, and that's disappointing.

This is going to come off like a troll response, but I'm legitimately sincere, stoned, and curious, as someone who enjoys Star Trek in passing but has no real knowledge of things like character pathos and things like that, stuff that you have to let marinade before you realize it's significance: what differences between the actor and the character take you out of it to that level?

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

This is going to come off like a troll response, but I'm legitimately sincere, stoned, and curious, as someone who enjoys Star Trek in passing but has no real knowledge of things like character pathos and things like that, stuff that you have to let marinade before you realize it's significance: what differences between the actor and the character take you out of it to that level?

My wife watched this one with me (context: she likes old TNG, has an emotional affection for the characters; hated Picard S1/2 after trying a couple episodes; so I just showed her a few clips to laugh at and she said stop ruining my favorite characters, don't show it to me; now we decided to try again with S3).

She agrees that he feels nothing like Picard, and last night she specifically said: "he feels like an aging hippie, not an aging Jean-Luc." I think that captures it. By hippie, she's not being political, but referencing some real senior citizens we know nearby who still have Grateful Dead posters and listen to loud music in their retirement. They have a certain personality type, which is deeply opposed to seriousness, calm, or formality.

But Picard's formality originally defined him as a character. In fact, this took a little while for the actor to figure out on the original TNG; in Season 1 of TNG, he was way too emotive with his expressions, tended to stand loosely, etc. But by Season 2 he had locked in his signature character, and a big part of it was based in little mannerisms like tugging his uniform in place very stiffly whenever he stood up. His character was also also old-world in his love of Shakespeare, literature, formal language, rhetoric, and other hallmarks of the classic Renaissance man.

He was measured and controlled at all times, powerfully so. This made him compelling in every scene.

But on the new show, Picard always has a kind of half smile on his face; he stands around loosely and emotes very widely, just like Stewart did on TNG season1 before developing the character, but even worse by a mile. He seems way too emotionally involved in everyone around him, instead of having his old presence as a force of wisdom and rationality. He went from being a powerfully restrained and intelligent man to being something entirely different.

If you watch Patrick Stewart in recent interviews, and compare his recent acting as Picard, there is zero difference. It's the same man, the actor and the character. But back in TNG days, seeing behind the scenes footage of Patrick Stewart was actually deeply disorienting, because he was such a different man than his character. He lost that completely.

 

[Thaedolus]

Got to watch this morning: while a huge step up from S1/S2 so far, not without its silliness here and there, like Raffi…well Raffi in general but specifically whipping out a TOS era communicator and announcing she’s an intelligence officer in the middle of the street, or Crusher’s shoot out with a pump action phaser rifle. But overall it was enjoyable and the plot seems interesting. Guessing the son is Picard’s…maybe. And bah god the sequence with the first contact theme was absolutely gorgeous, holy shit that gave me goosebumps. Will be tuning in next week

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

On TNG, Picard was the one who defused emotional situations, and refused to let himself be moved by them:


Everyone else in this scene is hot-headed, but Picard is still measured. He even lets her verbal offenses slide just for now, because he has wisdom about when it's worth it to engage.

But at the same time, he will dress someone down powerfully if they fail him.


In short, OG Picard knows to guard his personal reactions until the right moment. He never lets his face convey his intention too early, or let it distract. But on the new show, Picard is constantly giving facial expressions (Stewart can't control himself; good thing they cut to the other speaker often because he's distracting he makes so many faces when others talk), being incredibly informal, laying everything on the table without any strategic thinking or control.

 

[gaming_again]

This is going to come off like a troll response, but I'm legitimately sincere, stoned, and curious, as someone who enjoys Star Trek in passing but has no real knowledge of things like character pathos and things like that, stuff that you have to let marinade before you realize it's significance: what differences between the actor and the character take you out of it to that level?

He’s soft forgiving and lets his emotions control him too quickly. And he’s kind. Some people lose their edge when they age for sure (me included), but TNG Picard would have stayed stone cold imo. His rationality and practicality was his DNA.

 

[xandaca]

He’s soft forgiving and lets his emotions control him too quickly. And he’s kind. Some people lose their edge when they age for sure (me included), but TNG Picard would have stayed stone cold imo. His rationality and practicality was his DNA.

I'm not necessarily opposed to a more emotionally open Picard: his arc across TNG was of a man starting out extremely aloof and defining himself by his duty, but by the end, following his experiences with the Borg (BoBW/Family), the Inner Light and Lessons among others, appreciated the value of people as family and friends. It's also true that people generally do get more open in old age. That said, those who are naturally reserved and introverted, let alone have Picard's devotion to professional conduct (understanding the importance that his crew see him as a composed, rational authority figure), are unlikely to change as much as Picard has in the new series. It's a matter of degrees: a more emotionally open Picard makes sense, but he'd never allow himself to be as colloquial and vulnerable as Stewart portrays him now, particularly when on a mission. He'd still understand the importance of how he conducts himself as a leader, which he barely is anymore.

That said, gaming_again is incorrect to say Picard was ever stone cold and unkind. He was closer to a Vulcan, having emotional responses but keeping them guarded and controlling how he expressed himself. Even relatively early on, he was highly capable at empathising with others and talking to those going through doubts or hardship: he wouldn't have been a good captain otherwise. Just because he didn't burst into floods of tears a la Discovery doesn't mean he didn't feel things, he just knew how to only express the feelings he needed to and in a constructive way. 'The Bonding' is a really good example of this: the last surviving parent of a young boy aboard has died and he has to break the news to him. While he expresses his discomfort and sadness at this part of his duty to Deanna beforehand, particularly given his difficulty with children, when it comes to delivering the news he is matter-of-fact and calm but also extremely attuned to the child's pain and what he needs to hear in that moment. Picard's last line in this clip is an emotional scene done perfectly: it lands powerfully because it allows the strength of the expressed sentiment to do the work with no distracting histrionics. It is also a wonderful character moment revealing the depths of feeling and kindness under Picard's guarded surface.



The idea that Picard is unemotional or cannot open himself up, or that being reserved was a weakness that could only be the result of trauma, was what Picard S2 got completely wrong. Picard is an introvert and a professional who might sometimes feel conflicted about devoting himself so completely to his duty, but also understands that sense of duty and the associated sacrifices (the nature of choice means leaving some things behind) are part of who he is and a consequence of doing the job that brings him such fulfillment. He is, in other words, an adult, whereas the writers of New Trek are trapped in the childish belief that someone who doesn't indulge or loudly express every emotion must be broken in some way. On the contrary, TNG-era Picard is one of the most emotionally mature characters ever written for the screen.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

The idea that Picard is unemotional or cannot open himself up, or that being reserved was a weakness that could only be the result of trauma, was what Picard S2 got completely wrong. Picard is an introvert and a professional who might sometimes feel conflicted about devoting himself so completely to his duty, but also understands that sense of duty and the associated sacrifices (the nature of choice means leaving some things behind) are part of who he is and a consequence of doing the job that brings him such fulfillment. He is, in other words, an adult, whereas the writers of New Trek are trapped in the childish belief that someone who doesn't indulge or loudly express every emotion must be broken in some way. On the contrary, TNG-era Picard is one of the most emotionally mature characters ever written for the screen.

Well said

 

[gaming_again]

I'm not necessarily opposed to a more emotionally open Picard: his arc across TNG was of a man starting out extremely aloof and defining himself by his duty, but by the end, following his experiences with the Borg (BoBW/Family), the Inner Light and Lessons among others, appreciated the value of people as family and friends. It's also true that people generally do get more open in old age. That said, those who are naturally reserved and introverted, let alone have Picard's devotion to professional conduct (understanding the importance that his crew see him as a composed, rational authority figure), are unlikely to change as much as Picard has in the new series. It's a matter of degrees: a more emotionally open Picard makes sense, but he'd never allow himself to be as colloquial and vulnerable as Stewart portrays him now, particularly when on a mission. He'd still understand the importance of how he conducts himself as a leader, which he barely is anymore.

That said, gaming_again is incorrect to say Picard was ever stone cold and unkind. He was closer to a Vulcan, having emotional responses but keeping them guarded and controlling how he expressed himself. Even relatively early on, he was highly capable at empathising with others and talking to those going through doubts or hardship: he wouldn't have been a good captain otherwise. Just because he didn't burst into floods of tears a la Discovery doesn't mean he didn't feel things, he just knew how to only express the feelings he needed to and in a constructive way. 'The Bonding' is a really good example of this: the last surviving parent of a young boy aboard has died and he has to break the news to him. While he expresses his discomfort and sadness at this part of his duty to Deanna beforehand, particularly given his difficulty with children, when it comes to delivering the news he is matter-of-fact and calm but also extremely attuned to the child's pain and what he needs to hear in that moment. Picard's last line in this clip is an emotional scene done perfectly: it lands powerfully because it allows the strength of the expressed sentiment to do the work with no distracting histrionics. It is also a wonderful character moment revealing the depths of feeling and kindness under Picard's guarded surface.



The idea that Picard is unemotional or cannot open himself up, or that being reserved was a weakness that could only be the result of trauma, was what Picard S2 got completely wrong. Picard is an introvert and a professional who might sometimes feel conflicted about devoting himself so completely to his duty, but also understands that sense of duty and the associated sacrifices (the nature of choice means leaving some things behind) are part of who he is and a consequence of doing the job that brings him such fulfillment. He is, in other words, an adult, whereas the writers of New Trek are trapped in the childish belief that someone who doesn't indulge or loudly express every emotion must be broken in some way. On the contrary, TNG-era Picard is one of the most emotionally mature characters ever written for the screen.

Well I wouldn't say he was unkind as such, rather he was not generous in showing how he could be kind. He was never cruel, of course.

But I do think he was stone cold a lot of the time and that was why they needed Troi as part of the crew.

Stewart said in an interview that when he got the role he read about Napoleon to try and learn how to demand respect as a shorter man and I think this comes through: he postures and barks and snaps at people.

Buuuuuut I do tend to stick with S1-S4 when I watch TNG so I'm not remembering the full picture as clearly as the early one. He is especially rough around the edges in the first season.

When you say he was an adult I think that it what I mean to say. He extended respect and duty as a matter of course, only letting somebody in further after they had proved worthy - as you learn to do as you get older. And even after doing that, it was clear he thought that showing emotion was showing weakness. Which I think is true for men in many positions.

I might give this new Picard a try tomorrow if I get the time. I dunno. I'm nervous. S1 I could just about handle because I liked some of the ideas but S2... that pulverised a bit of my soul.

Edit: I'd like to express my admiration for your post. And ResurrectedContrarian 's posts. All too often online you find people who only talk negatively about the the things they purport to love, and stuff like Star Trek suffers the most from this. It's nice to see people show genuine passion for something without terrible irony dripping all over it.

 

[Wildebeest]

First episode is promising. There were some good scenes.

Things that sort of bother me are like with future medicine they still can't fix Riker's prostate issues, so he has to get up in the night to pee. Where is the techno-utopianism? Everything is still just bad in the current Trek, like the writers can't get over it having to be a running commentary on present day life. McCoy was still up and about when he was 137.

 

[ipukespiders]

 

[Bragr]

He is, in other words, an adult, whereas the writers of New Trek are trapped in the childish belief that someone who doesn't indulge or loudly express every emotion must be broken in some way.

Spot on, this is a problem with modern TV and films. It's like the writers are too immature to understand how to deal with emotions, but in the past, a part of being a hero was knowing how to handle it.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Wheeljack539]

First episode is promising. There were some good scenes.

Things that sort of bother me are like with future medicine they still can't fix Riker's prostate issues, so he has to get up in the night to pee. Where is the techno-utopianism? Everything is still just bad in the current Trek, like the writers can't get over it having to be a running commentary on present day life. McCoy was still up and about when he was 137.

Tell me about it.

Remember this?

McCoy in the 20th Century Medicine: "We're dealing with medievalism".

Or this?

 

[FunkMiller]

Well, it’s light years better than the turds they’ve shat out before.

We’ll see how it goes… but it feels like Star Trek, for the first time in many years.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Honestly, the only review that could possibly convince me to give this a try is RedLetterMedia's, though I doubt they're gonna bother with any more nutrek at this point.

Looks like I got my wish after all, lol.

I'll wait for the season to complete, though, since as they say - these nutrek shows have a tendency to start out promising only to nose dive in quality as the seasons go on.

Also, 20 bucks says that Amanda Plummer's character will be General Chang's daughter or whatever.

 

[ManaByte]

Based on the synopsis, Worf shows up in episode 2. Most likely he’s Raffi’s handler.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[FunkMiller]

Shaw's the best new character this godawful series has introduced. I'm hoping for his continued conflict with Picard and Riker, resolving with either his inevitable death, or grudging assistance.

 

[Kenpachii]

Not sure if i still want to watch further to be honest, season 1 was brain killing, season 2 was straight up unwatchable and season 3 while better its still far away from what TNG was.

This episode honestly felt like watching the star trek movie 2009 bootleg edition setup. Oh look giant ship that's 30x the size a starfleet ship is going to kill you all and we going to be hunted for the next 10 episodes!.

Somehow they also made the ship feel like cheap as hell, it looks like a tank versus a sexy race car the original was.

vs

Then about picard.

Is it so hard for them to simple put picard on a fucking ship he controls, isn't getting shit on by everybody but respected like he was in the original series, highly educated, cultured and a strong leader that u get inspired by. Instead dude is a old fool, that gets shit on and laughed at by everybody and can't defend his position for shit. Atleast riker is staying true to his character. Sadly both of them feel totally out of place, there is no tension in the episode its basically just fanfare of both of them just being there to be there.

Seven of nine:

Honestly, seven of nine feels completely out of place in the series. She always did. Her joining some "starfleet job as second hand slave" going from freedom fighter with u know endless freedom is like basically putting harrison ford in star wars as second side man towards a storm trooper squad. It doesn't even make sense. I have no clue why they keep shoving her into picard, she's not even from the same dam generation of series. Atleast made her captain or some shit she basically has endless knowledge about everything again it makes zero sense.

The new captain atleast felt like he wanted to do the job and not just do some fanfare excursion where everybody just feels like being there is all that needs to be archieved. But why is the captain even there its about picard you know star trek picard, i know they will probably kill him off the next episode so picard retakes the enterprise or some shit. So he's basically filler and frankly nobody on the ship even takes the guy serious because non of the characters have weight towards them.

Ralph or whatever that black chick is called:

So she's a spy to infiltrate then gets back, nobody reacts and everything gets blown up. Why the hell did they brought her back? again make it about the TNG cast and remove the side characters entirely.

The TNG doctor was the only good part, sadly they rammed another son into the picture.

Back to the story:

I expected TNG, episodes that have there story's contained into one episode, and maybe 2 at best as a season final. So u have the feeling u watched something at the end of the episode. This is what made old star trek so good. Exploring, horror, science, encounting strange enviroments they get stuck in and need to rescue themselves out of. Instead what we got now again is some ship killer, that's going to do BOOM BOOM BOOM every episode and nothing else we will be seeing.

Honestly feels like TNG is years ahead of what Picard is, sad.

2/10.

 

[gaming_again]

I watched the first ep. It was okay. Frakes still has it.

As soon as Picard said ‘I need to find a ship!’ In that bar what enthusiasm I had waned. Here we go again…

I watched the episode ‘Clues’ afterwards as a palette cleanser.

 

[Power Pro]

I watched the episode before i got through their video, and I feel the exact same way they do so far. This is why I trust RLM so much, at least Mike in terms of Star Trek opinions, cuz we align so much.

Anyway, if anyone saw the last Picard thread, I was very down on the idea of the season at all...but dammit, yeah...episode 1 is not bad so far. If it can stick the landing through the season, it'll be a pleasant surprise. Still not true star trek 100%, cuz it still has a lot of that dark and gritty look to it, but the writing has been a highlight.

Shaw was the kind of asshole you would see in Starfleet admirals visiting, so yeah, I actually enjoyed his asshole type of a character lol.

The things that bring it down are the things that are left overs from the last two seasons. If this was seeing Seven for the first time since Voyager, then hey...it might be an awesome return for her...but after her being a raging murderer in the previous seasons, it's kinda hard to believe she deserves to wear a starfleet uniform now. Best to just ignore those seasons, as hard as it is for me.

 

[DeafTourette]

Not sure if i still want to watch further to be honest, season 1 was brain killing, season 2 was straight up unwatchable and season 3 while better its still far away from what TNG was.

This episode honestly felt like watching the star trek movie 2009 bootleg edition setup. Oh look giant ship that's 30x the size a starfleet ship is going to kill you all and we going to be hunted for the next 10 episodes!.

Somehow they also made the ship feel like cheap as hell, it looks like a tank versus a sexy race car the original was.

vs

Then about picard.

Is it so hard for them to simple put picard on a fucking ship he controls, isn't getting shit on by everybody but respected like he was in the original series, highly educated, cultured and a strong leader that u get inspired by. Instead dude is a old fool, that gets shit on and laughed at by everybody and can't defend his position for shit. Atleast riker is staying true to his character. Sadly both of them feel totally out of place, there is no tension in the episode its basically just fanfare of both of them just being there to be there.

Seven of nine:

Honestly, seven of nine feels completely out of place in the series. She always did. Her joining some "starfleet job as second hand slave" going from freedom fighter with u know endless freedom is like basically putting harrison ford in star wars as second side man towards a storm trooper squad. It doesn't even make sense. I have no clue why they keep shoving her into picard, she's not even from the same dam generation of series. Atleast made her captain or some shit she basically has endless knowledge about everything again it makes zero sense.

The new captain atleast felt like he wanted to do the job and not just do some fanfare excursion where everybody just feels like being there is all that needs to be archieved. But why is the captain even there its about picard you know star trek picard, i know they will probably kill him off the next episode so picard retakes the enterprise or some shit. So he's basically filler and frankly nobody on the ship even takes the guy serious because non of the characters have weight towards them.

Ralph or whatever that black chick is called:

So she's a spy to infiltrate then gets back, nobody reacts and everything gets blown up. Why the hell did they brought her back? again make it about the TNG cast and remove the side characters entirely.

The TNG doctor was the only good part, sadly they rammed another son into the picture.

Back to the story:

I expected TNG, episodes that have there story's contained into one episode, and maybe 2 at best as a season final. So u have the feeling u watched something at the end of the episode. This is what made old star trek so good. Exploring, horror, science, encounting strange enviroments they get stuck in and need to rescue themselves out of. Instead what we got now again is some ship killer, that's going to do BOOM BOOM BOOM every episode and nothing else we will be seeing.

Honestly feels like TNG is years ahead of what Picard is, sad.

2/10.

This is literally the TNG cast's "Undiscovered Country" ... It's not going to be "adventure of the week" ...

Picard is a retired admiral... Riker is on reserve...

Some of your points/questions were answered and explained IN the episode. Others ... Well, people get old. People move on with their lives. People change. That's a universal constant... Some might call it ... A cosmological constant. *Rim shot*

Anyway... That was only the first episode. I've heard more than enough good things about the full season to keep giving the season the benefit of the doubt.

 

[gaming_again]

This is literally the TNG cast's "Undiscovered Country" ... It's not going to be "adventure of the week" ...

Picard is a retired admiral... Riker is on reserve...

Some of your points/questions were answered and explained IN the episode. Others ... Well, people get old. People move on with their lives. People change. That's a universal constant... Some might call it ... A cosmological constant. *Rim shot*

Anyway... That was only the first episode. I've heard more than enough good things about the full season to keep giving the season the benefit of the doubt.

Sure people change, but Picard being so unsure and nervous? He’s supposed to be a stern space daddy.

 

[DeafTourette]

Sure people change, but Picard being so unsure and nervous? He’s supposed to be a stern space daddy.

He hasn't been in command of a ship for years... Possibly 20! He's not going to be stern space daddy. He certainly wasn't in All Good Things as the elderly Picard... Everything you're describing his current self as is what he was in that episode.

 

[gaming_again]

I haven’t seen All Good Things in years. I’ll revisit it next weekend, I think.

 

[Kenpachii]

This is literally the TNG cast's "Undiscovered Country" ... It's not going to be "adventure of the week" ...

Picard is a retired admiral... Riker is on reserve...

Some of your points/questions were answered and explained IN the episode. Others ... Well, people get old. People move on with their lives. People change. That's a universal constant... Some might call it ... A cosmological constant. *Rim shot*

Anyway... That was only the first episode. I've heard more than enough good things about the full season to keep giving the season the benefit of the doubt.

True they all became clowns at a circus to sit out there remaining days. Let's make a 10 episode circus adventure.

They can make picard whatever they want to be.

It's not hard really, just make another season of TNG they already have the recipe for it for decades. If i want to see star trek 2009 i will watch that.

 

[ManaByte]

He hasn't been in command of a ship for years... Possibly 20! He's not going to be stern space daddy. He certainly wasn't in All Good Things as the elderly Picard... Everything you're describing his current self as is what he was in that episode.

Same argument people had with Luke in the ST. They wanted young Mark Hamill ripping Star Destroyers from orbit with the Force even though 35 years had passed.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

I mean Star Wars is space magic, and there's not much proof in the Star Wars movies that being old makes your space magic feeble. We just didn't want Luke as a sidelined space hermit who failed at jedi mastering. (despite how "like poetry, it rhymes" it is)

I don't know what you do with an old Picard though, because yeah Patrick Stewart is too old and feeble to even act, let alone act like a captain. Kirk is now officially my favorite captain. The Shat gracefully bowed out in his early 60s, nothing Chris Pine did outright ruined the character. Yeah I'm rolling with Captain James Tiberius Kirk from now on.

(in hindsight, not so very tired... more like young and spry!)

 

[ManaByte]

I mean Star Wars is space magic, and there's not much proof in the Star Wars movies that being old makes your space magic feeble. We just didn't want Luke as a sidelined space hermit who failed at jedi mastering. (despite how "like poetry, it rhymes" it is)

Nah it was aging fans from the OT days who are now in their mid-40s or 50s and can't accept that they're getting old so they wanted to live out their young fantasies through a 70 year old Mark Hamill and when they didn't get that they went full midlife crisis with angry YouTube videos for cash.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Nah it was aging fans from the OT days who are now in their mid-40s or 50s and can't accept that they're getting old so they wanted to live out their young fantasies through a 70 year old Mark Hamill and when they didn't get that they went full midlife crisis with angry YouTube videos for cash.

I guess you think Mark Hamil himself is full of shit then? Didn't he himself not like the changes to his character? Once again, your crusade against these angry youtube videos is clouding your mind.

 

[ManaByte]

Didn't he himself not like the changes to his character?

Mark Hamill wanted Luke to turn to the Dark Side in Return of the Jedi and don the Vader helmet.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Mark Hamill wanted Luke to turn to the Dark Side in Return of the Jedi and don the Vader helmet.

I'm not sure what that that has to do with his dislike of his character in the last jedi but alrighty then.

 

[kurisu_1974]

So don't spoil the story but.... it's actually good?

Gonna watch this asap so I can enjoy RLM's take. They have been the best part of watching Trek for a while now.

 

[ManaByte]

I'm not sure what that that has to do with his dislike of his character in the last jedi but alrighty then.

Because as he explains he had the exact same complaints about ROTJ that he had about TLJ. But those YouTube channels that deceptively edit videos to push their narrative omit that part.

https://ew.com/movies/star-wars-mark-hamill-return-of-the-jedi-dark-side/

 

[gaming_again]

Not a huge Star Wars fine but I think turning Luke nihilistic was too subversive and a decision made in bad faith. I thought that’s what Hamil didn’t like?

But idgaf about Star Wars beyond the OT really. And probably just the first two films.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Because as he explains he had the exact same complaints about ROTJ that he had about TLJ. But those YouTube channels that deceptively edit videos to push their narrative omit that part.

https://ew.com/movies/star-wars-mark-hamill-return-of-the-jedi-dark-side/

Old Obi wan had no problem kicking ass(eventually) Same with vader. Also yoda. And the emperor. Age has no meaning for power in Star Wars. It's space magic. I don't think it's unreasonable to be unsatisfied where Luke ended up.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I mean Star Wars is space magic, and there's not much proof in the Star Wars movies that being old makes your space magic feeble. We just didn't want Luke as a sidelined space hermit who failed at jedi mastering. (despite how "like poetry, it rhymes" it is)

Yoda. Qui-Gon, Ben - all old - all can kick tons of ass. But paid shills and mindless ideological fanboys have to defend this utter tripe for... reasons. I just hope they get something out of it.

Not sure if i still want to watch further to be honest, season 1 was brain killing, season 2 was straight up unwatchable and season 3 while better its still far away from what TNG was.

This episode honestly felt like watching the star trek movie 2009 bootleg edition setup. Oh look giant ship that's 30x the size a starfleet ship is going to kill you all and we going to be hunted for the next 10 episodes!.

Somehow they also made the ship feel like cheap as hell, it looks like a tank versus a sexy race car the original was.

vs

Then about picard.

Is it so hard for them to simple put picard on a fucking ship he controls, isn't getting shit on by everybody but respected like he was in the original series, highly educated, cultured and a strong leader that u get inspired by. Instead dude is a old fool, that gets shit on and laughed at by everybody and can't defend his position for shit. Atleast riker is staying true to his character. Sadly both of them feel totally out of place, there is no tension in the episode its basically just fanfare of both of them just being there to be there.

Seven of nine:

Honestly, seven of nine feels completely out of place in the series. She always did. Her joining some "starfleet job as second hand slave" going from freedom fighter with u know endless freedom is like basically putting harrison ford in star wars as second side man towards a storm trooper squad. It doesn't even make sense. I have no clue why they keep shoving her into picard, she's not even from the same dam generation of series. Atleast made her captain or some shit she basically has endless knowledge about everything again it makes zero sense.

The new captain atleast felt like he wanted to do the job and not just do some fanfare excursion where everybody just feels like being there is all that needs to be archieved. But why is the captain even there its about picard you know star trek picard, i know they will probably kill him off the next episode so picard retakes the enterprise or some shit. So he's basically filler and frankly nobody on the ship even takes the guy serious because non of the characters have weight towards them.

Ralph or whatever that black chick is called:

So she's a spy to infiltrate then gets back, nobody reacts and everything gets blown up. Why the hell did they brought her back? again make it about the TNG cast and remove the side characters entirely.

The TNG doctor was the only good part, sadly they rammed another son into the picture.

Back to the story:

I expected TNG, episodes that have there story's contained into one episode, and maybe 2 at best as a season final. So u have the feeling u watched something at the end of the episode. This is what made old star trek so good. Exploring, horror, science, encounting strange enviroments they get stuck in and need to rescue themselves out of. Instead what we got now again is some ship killer, that's going to do BOOM BOOM BOOM every episode and nothing else we will be seeing.

Honestly feels like TNG is years ahead of what Picard is, sad.

2/10.

Said it better than I could. Yes, this episode is better than the last two seasons - but that isn't a very high bar. It is still easily the worst thing Trek has going for it, which is saying a LOT considering how fucking awful the current ongoing Trek shows are.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Old Obi wan had no problem kicking ass(eventually) Same with vader. Also yoda. And the emperor. Age has no meaning for power in Star Wars. It's space magic. I don't think it's unreasonable to be unsatisfied where Luke ended up.

Don 't bother. I am certain Mana is a paid shill by the company to push how awful the old shows/movies are and how fantastic the new trash is. Look at his work in the Rings of Power thread. No sane person would defend something *that* much unless they were getting paid for it.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Don 't bother. I am certain Mana is a paid shill by the company to push how awful the old shows/movies are and how fantastic the new trash is. Look at his work in the Rings of Power thread. No sane person would defend something *that* much unless they were getting paid for it.

 

[FunkMiller]

So don't spoil the story but.... it's actually good?

Gonna watch this asap so I can enjoy RLM's take. They have been the best part of watching Trek for a while now.

Yes. It is. Very much feels like a show now made by people who have actually watched TNG.

 

[FunkMiller]

Old Obi wan had no problem kicking ass(eventually) Same with vader. Also yoda. And the emperor. Age has no meaning for power in Star Wars. It's space magic. I don't think it's unreasonable to be unsatisfied where Luke ended up.

The IDGAF throwing of the lightsaber over his shoulder was all you needed to know about the people making that film.

 

[Krathoon]

I am really having a bitch of a time getting through the first season of Picard. Too much relationship shit.

 

[Thaedolus]

I am really having a bitch of a time getting through the first season of Picard. Too much relationship shit.

Skip it

 

[Krathoon]

How in the hell did this thread switch to Star Wars?

 

[Pagusas]

I am really having a bitch of a time getting through the first season of Picard. Too much relationship shit.

Seriously, skip it, just YouTube the data/Picard scene, and you are good. For season 2, just YouTube Q and Picard scenes, and you’ll be good. Will take less than 20 minutes of your time and you will literally see all the good parts of these shows, that’s it.

 

[Krathoon]

Here is a good summary of Season 1 and then it talks about the first episode of season 3.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

2/10.

A lot of valid complaints that echo my own thoughts in there... I'm only a bit less harsh since I've seen all of seasons 1-2, and compared to that absolute garbage, this is at least fully watchable.

Same argument people had with Luke in the ST. They wanted young Mark Hamill ripping Star Destroyers from orbit with the Force even though 35 years had passed.

This is nonsense... and almost the opposite of the situation.

No one is asking for action hero Picard; that's the guy from First Contact or Nemesis.. and TNG was already effectively dead by that point. Action-film Picard would be a total betrayal of the original character.

We're asking for the mature, wise Picard that would have naturally progressed from the man on the series. And that's _not_ what we're getting. He's always confused, secondary, and the one person in the room who doesn't seem to understand what's happening around him.

Sadly, if we're being honest, the main problem is Patrick Stewart's acting. He was once a phenomenal actor, who developed a character who was actually almost nothing like the actor himself. As I noted in a previous comment, it's very strange to see behind the scenes footage from the TNG show, because watching Patrick Stewart's style of affect and personality off camera was as weird as watching Brent Spiner smile and laugh... his character is so very different from himself that it took a total transformation, and he had the acting skill to pull it off masterfully.

But now, he's either too old or just too lazy to even try to play a character anymore. He simply acts exactly as Patrick Stewart has always seemed in interviews. And that's not what we want; we want the wise man, not the confused fool. And if you want to point out that he was supposed to be confused in his old age (according to the future vision in All Good Things), well... according to Season 1 he no longer has that brain condition now. _And_ the Picard of All Good Things was still wise, and strong in his will even if his mind was leaving him.

The sad truth is that the younger Patrick Stewart was still brilliant enough to play a compelling older vision of his character in aged makeup. But the actual aged Patrick Stewart is no longer able to play his character at all.

 

[gaming_again]

There is no way he’s lazy. God I dread getting old.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

It's not just his age.

Compare Jonathan Banks (Mike from Breaking Bad / Better Call Saul), who was 75 at the end of BCS. He never seems even slighty hampered in his acting by age; he always holds a strong presence on screen.

Or compare Judi Dench at about 85 in the recent film Belfast (great movie, highly recommend); she's fantastic in every scene, and shows depth of understanding of her lines.

To be a bit mean... I slightly suspect a slow burning Bruce Willis situation with Stewart.

But it's probably not that bad... it's just that he's not able or willing to put himself into the writing of the old character, and wants to take it some other direction based on his own state in life. And letting these actors run the series is a terrible idea. It was Stewart who actually wanted the action-hero Picard of the movies, according to interviews, so his acting talents should never be allowed to cross over into influencing the writing in any way.

EDIT: on not letting the actors run the series, I cannot stress enough how catastrophic it is when you let the actors into the creative process early, and let their little fantasies of what they'd like to be on screen affect the writing. Patrick Stewart has been a negative influence on his character all the way back to the films, where he asked to be more of an action star. Brent Spiner has ruined many hours of footage by asking for these secondary characters (Lore, or the personas in Masks, or all the Soongs we keep getting) so that he can flex his supposed acting chops. But let us be honest, Spiner is brilliant at Data and absolutely awful at every other character. I can't get excited about Lore returning because he'll ham it up yet again and ruin every scene.

 

[ManaByte]