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Square Enix/Eidos today - your thoughts?

You never know, Crystal Dynamic's "new IP" could be a reboot/restoration of Legacy of Kain. More and more I keep seeing people mentioning the series and how fond they were with the titles. I remember a while ago Square did a questionnaire on something related to Legacy of Kain? If Thief is coming back, Legacy of Kain has a bigger chance of returning at some point in the future. Hell, the modern fan art of Raziel got some spot light treatment across several sites and fans.

raziel.jpg


<3

Don't my hopes up.
 
They are hollow names that once belonged to some of the most famous development studios and publishers in the games industry. Now they play catchup to salvage some of their credibility before gamers forget who they are.

Pretty much this. At least in regards to the Square aspect of them. Starting in the 8 bit era up till the PS1/Saturn/N64 gen Square just kept getting better and better. They seemed to have no problem tackling any genre and producing something great. I mean just look at their output on PS1 Einhander, Brave Fencer Musashi, Parasite Eve, Xenogears, Tobal, the Final Fantasy games, and more. After that though, its been straight downhill run at breakneck speeds. I don't know if they lost the folks behind those games, or if they've just bogged themselves down in development hell, but they are a pale pale shadow of their former selves.

Their PS2 output was such a mixed bag for me, but the overall trend was making games worse than the ones that came before them. This gen has just been even worse.

Again that's just the Square side of things I really can't speak at all about the Enix, or Eidos groups.
 

Sydle

Member
Eidos is still promising.

The people behind FFXIII need to be packed into a space shuttle and hurtled toward the sun, or just not allowed to make video games or influence their development.
 
Style over substance, making games in a creative vacuum, ignoring your player base, etc. I hope these issues do not blend into Eidos (didn't the prez say something about plans for Deus Ex? *shudder*)

This company has burned me pretty badly by ruining the Mana series and releasing the terrible FFXIV. I'm sure it's hurting them right now though so at least they have a chance for introspection and looking to Eidos recent success may offer some benefit.
 
SE is dead, haven't made a single good game this gen. They used to have style and substance, now they have neither. Not even that excited about Versus anymore either, and I suspect most of the market will have moved on by the time it comes out.
 

spirity

Member
Eidos has put out a few games I've really enjoyed this gen, particularly JC2. Still fire it up from time to time.

Having been a big fan of the FF brand in the past, 13 and 14 were the nails in the coffin for me. I'm not into the futuristic art direction and the melodrama, which was ok in the past, does not sit well with me at all these days.. its just ridiculous. Kind of seals the deal for Versus 13 and 13 x-2, as I see the same old shit coming down the pipe.
 

Famassu

Member
Their PS2 output was such a mixed bag for me, but the overall trend was making games worse than the ones that came before them. This gen has just been even worse.
The only thing they've failed with was FFXIII & FFXIV, but they are fixing XIV and "fixing" the mistakes of XIII in XIII-2. Otherwise they've been developing good & great games. The action RPGs have been their best (at least gameplay-wise), Dissidia is a geniunely great fighting game, 3rd Birthday is a fun shooter and a game like FF Versus XIII is one of their most ambitious titles to date. Sure, they hit somewhat of a bumb during the PS2 era (Sakaguchi screwed up, moving many of their franchises to proper 3d gameplay didn't always work out that well) which culminated in XIII, but they've been improving their output throughout this generation.

H_Prestige said:
SE is dead, haven't made a single good game this gen.
Troll harder. Apart from XIII & XIV, they've made tons of good & even great games (and there are people who enjoyed XIII a lot, so they didn't perform entirely horribly with it either).
 

legacyzero

Banned
Eidos is still promising.

The people behind FFXIII need to be packed into a space shuttle and hurtled toward the sun, or just not allowed to make video games or influence their development.

I'd prefer the first option simply due to the injustice that is FFXIII. So much potential... Ruined. I cant believe I played the game all the way to disc 3. That's when I got so disgusted that I had to trade it.

But people say: "Bu-Bu-Bu-but the game opens up in the 3rd disc!"

Sorry, but that doesn't excuse the OTHER 2/3rds of the game being utter garbage. Like seriously, I'm so traumatized over how disappointed I was...
 
As well as the IPs and studios they acquired when SE bought Eidos they also have the Luminous engine, which should mean that SE transition to the next generation a lot better than they did to this one.
 

Yottamole

Banned
I just want to play more games that the former Enix published.

Sure there are many Dragon Quest games, but I would kill to be able to play Terranigma legally on a modern console in America.
 

kswiston

Member
I just want to play more games that the former Enix published.

Sure there are many Dragon Quest games, but I would kill to be able to play Terranigma legally on a modern console in America.

Are you talking about new entries or just VC/PSN legacy titles? If legacy titles, I definitely agree. Virtual Console needs the rest of the SNES Quintet rpgs, E.V.O., and hell, even the Dragon Quest games (No reason to not have the NES games up there at the very least). Maybe we will get the GBC Dragon Warrior remakes on 3DS Virtual Console so that DQ 1-6 + 9 are playable on a single system.

If you are talking about new entries to these series, than I am indifferent. So much time has passed since Terranigma was released that whatever was released today would be radically different.
 
I don't care about Eidos, their brands have always seemed 2nd rate to me and very bland. Deus Ex HR was ok though.

The Square side is good, not great. Obviously they have problems. I don't care about other peoples opinions on the matter, but FFXIII was a very good game. The 3rd Birthday was pretty much the best action game on the PSP. Looking to the future they seem to be getting their act together with games like XIII-2.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Eidos is fine.

Enix part is purely focusing on Dragon Quest to the point they're milking it since well... It is their flagship franchise, although it would be better if they expanded on their Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile franchises.

Square on the other hand need to have more input IMO.
 
Z

ZombieFred

Unconfirmed Member
Eidos is fine.

Enix part is purely focusing on Dragon Quest to the point they're milking it since well... It is their flagship franchise, although it would be better if they expanded on their Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile franchises.

Square on the other hand need to have more input IMO.

I thought Tri Ace owned the IP?
 

Dragon

Banned
Wasn't the Versus XIII team making other games at the same time? For example Birth by Sleep?

I'm sure someone like Kagari could answer this more accurately but from what I remember they were brought in to finish FFXIII and yeah they were also doing a handheld game. I don't know how long they've actively concentrated on Versus.

SE needs to stop announcing games so early on. It worked before because the games were at least high quality, but when you hype your fanbase and you put out a polarizing game like 13 you're going to get significant backlash.

I think if anything Eidos should be teaching them how to do things not the other way around.
 

Azar

Member
Final Fantasy XIII was such a creatively bankrupt game that it aptly summed up what's terrible about Square and Japanese game development in general. They need to take a long, hard look at what they did with The World Ends With You and reevaluate the company as a whole. For now, the Eidos side is the most relevant and interesting branch of the company.
 
I'm sure someone like Kagari could answer this more accurately but from what I remember they were brought in to finish FFXIII and yeah they were also doing a handheld game. I don't know how long they've actively concentrated on Versus.

SE needs to stop announcing games so early on. It worked before because the games were at least high quality, but when you hype your fanbase and you put out a polarizing game like 13 you're going to get significant backlash.

I think if anything Eidos should be teaching them how to do things not the other way around.

They were never working on any other game except FFXIII.
 

ZoddGutts

Member
Square sure takes a long ass time to release pretty but mediocre games these days. Anyways Eidios has great potential. With Tief 4 and new Lara Croft game coming out. Loved Deus Ex and Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light. Still a bit iffy on the new Hitman game could turn out great hopefully.
 
Z

ZombieFred

Unconfirmed Member
If Square's luminous engine games can make PC ports fairly easy for them to do, I would love to see their future games to be released on the platform. Outside the MMOs, it's been a fair some time before a solid FF title was released and it would be interesting to see how that would achieve in that marketplace. I reckon it would sell well if executed right.
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
Wasn't the Versus XIII team making other games at the same time? For example Birth by Sleep?

That was Team Osaka. They're making KH 3D now. It's a separate team from Nomura's team. Which has been doing Versus 13 this whole time (while helping out with XIII for a while)
 

Acrylic7

Member
Edios is fine in my book

But I could care less if Enix went under. They aren't Square, their round. Round and rolling off the map.

and by "map" I mean off of my list of great devs.

and by "my list of great devs" I mean the Earth.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
I liked the DQ4 and 5 remakes (6 was a bit of a downer though, was kinda hoping for a more "full" remake), and of course Rocket Slime. Nier and TWEWY were godly and I liked Star Ocean 4... but disappointed that SE seems so focused on the western market and alienating their traditional fanbase.

I have slightly higher hope for them though, they seem to be a lot less defeatist than they were a few years back. But who knows if this will translate into good games? FFXIII-2 sounds like a marked improvement over the original at least. And Bravery Default looks extremely promising. I just want more classic, turn-based RPG games from them :(

I don't really care too much for Eidos (still haven't played the new Deus Ex yet) but Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light were awesome!
 
Edios is fine in my book

But I could care less if Enix went under. They aren't Square, their round. Round and rolling off the map.

and by "map" I mean off of my list of great devs.

and by "my list of great devs" I mean the Earth.

Of the two, Square has really fallen from grace.

Enix made DQ9; they still win.

As for Eidos, well... Please make another Deus Ex. Thanks.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
I hate even counting Eidos with SE as their bread and butter home made games have been big letdowns minus some hand held exceptions. They are a shadow of their former self. They still have excellent production but are beyond archaic in their multiplatform approach. They need to trim down their development cycles or hire better management/producers. This is not the same type of issue or at least not as widespread with western studios.
 

ULTROS!

People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I thought Tri Ace owned the IP?

Enix (now Square Enix) own both of them.

Wiki said:
The Dragon Quest franchise would carry over as one of Square Enix's most important assets. Other notable franchises published by Enix include the acclaimed Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile series by tri-Ace, both of which would also continue with Square Enix. The company Quintet developed several role-playing games for Enix such as ActRaiser, Robotrek, Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia, and Terranigma for the Super Nintendo.
 

RaijinFY

Member
Eidos is fine.

Enix part is purely focusing on Dragon Quest to the point they're milking it since well... It is their flagship franchise, although it would be better if they expanded on their Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile franchises.

Square on the other hand need to have more input IMO.

Dead!
 
It's been a rough few years for SE, but I feel like they have finally extracted their head from their own ass and are starting to get things out the door correctly. Seriously, they've been on the up and up.

-Still have some business sense (Eidos acquisition, Co-operative development of future engines)
-Proven to be one of the best handheld devs in the business (Type-0)
-Revamped, faster dev cycle (XIII-2)
-Admission of mistakes and commitment to their product (FFXIII post-mortem, FFXIV 2.0
Yoshi-P is my homeboy
)

Not every dev has the cash on hand to survive what SE went through, so I think that little dance with destruction has changed some minds for the better.
 

Lothars

Member
Eidos has been making great games with Deus Ex and Just Cause 2, I have full faith that they will keep doing great things.

Square-enix - Other than FFXIV which was a disaster for them, I think they need to not take as long to develop a game but the games they do release are all over the map, With all the shit FFXIII gets I think it is a very good game with problems but It's better than people say.

I have faith they will turn it around with the relaunch of FFXIV and FFXIII-2 and any other games they have coming down the pipe.
 

Boerseun

Banned
Deus Ex was a big budget game, long in development, with very active marketing and a ton of promotion. If it sold only 2 million units then surely they lost a fair bit of money on it?
 

Zen

Banned
Eidos has been making great games with Deus Ex and Just Cause 2, I have full faith that they will keep doing great things.

Square-enix - Other than FFXIV which was a disaster for them, I think they need to not take as long to develop a game but the games they do release are all over the map, With all the shit FFXIII gets I think it is a very good game with problems but It's better than people say.

I have faith they will turn it around with the relaunch of FFXIV and FFXIII-2 and any other games they have coming down the pipe.

As do I, and it seems like they're trying hard to address their problems with work flow efficiency and time management, and the technology side is now stronger than ever even.

the eidos side is doing a hellova lot better than the squareenix side, thats for sure.

Actually it's that both sides had management structural deficiencies that the other didn't, allowing both sides to compliment and strengthen the other. Edios wasn't up to be bought because they had great management that got them there.

Frankly the whole thing is probably one of the best acquisitions that the industry has seen in a long time, and not only that but the Square Enix side is purposefully giving the Edios side the time they need, (like Wada allowing Deus Ex to be delayed for a full year). We're even seeing a more sensible corporate philosophy seeping in to the company as a whole, and long term, Square-Enix is going to be absolutely amazing in my books.
 

Omikaru

Member
If they can get their Japanese side in order, I think Square Enix is probably the most exciting major publisher in the industry right now. They have a nice blend of great Western franchises like Hitman, Deus Ex, Thief, and many more, plus they also have the Square and Enix franchises from before the merger, like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts and such. And some of those aren't just fleeting success or overhyped properties that will fade from the public imagination once the next big thing comes along. They have hardcore and devoted fanbases that won't jump ship the second something else is better marketed to them.

Certainly, they have the means to create stellar and compelling line-ups. They just need to sort themselves out internally. Games take too long as they announce them too soon, whilst their release schedule looks like it's only been planned a few months in advance.

What they need is a long-term strategy of alternating Western and Japanese franchises taking the spotlight each year, allowing them to devote large amounts of resources to making sure each entry in their key franchises are all awesome (from a development and marketing perspective). I mean, when you're the company that owns Deus Ex, Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, you can afford to take your damn sweet time on all three. Though not too long, obviously, as we saw with the problems FFXIII suffered from.

This isn't an Activision situation, where they're pretty much relying on yearly Call of Duty games and WoW subscriptions to keep the ship sailing. They have a stable of much-loved franchises on every platform out there that they can cleverly alternate to avoid franchise fatigue, both from a developer and customer perspective.

Besides that, my big irk from Square Enix is their PC support. The Western side has it down well; DXHR, whilst buggy, had a lot reverence for its PC roots in terms of interface design and such. But where's the PC version of Final Fantasy iterations? Dragon Quest? I don't doubt for a second that there's a market for those games on PC, but Square Enix needs to lead the way on that front, and they need to do so with the big guns. Other Japanese developers certainly won't until Square Enix has "pioneered" that territory.
 
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