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[midnightAI]

Any money Sony puts into Tomb Raider would be money they COULD HAVE put into Uncharted. To divide the money between the two makes little sense.

Uncharted has proven a stronger IP than Tomb Raider. Sony doesn't need Uncharted-Lite.

Why would it take money away from Uncharted? That makes no sense.

 

[Kadve]

Except you know. They are fully profitable with a 38.074 billion kr (~3.2 billion Euro) revenue reported during 2023. All these layoffs are to reduce net dept.

Ubisoft by comparison reported a 500 million loss for 2023 and no one is talkin about them imploding.

(edit, confused revenue for Operating income which for embracer was essentially 0 this year. I still don't see them going away though).

 

[ahtlas7]

Keep afloat Embracer. We need this

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Ubisoft by comparison reported a 1.814 billion negative revenue for 2023 and no one is talkin about them imploding.

No one is talking about Ubisoft in general so maybe that's why.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Why would it take money away from Uncharted? That makes no sense.

Where do you think budget comes from? There is a reason Sony didn't buy Crystal Dynamics and Eidos for 300 million. They didn't want Tomb Raider as a game or as a movie, let alone a shitty TV show.

Any money Sony has for that genre, they'll put into making Uncharted a major transmedia franchise. That's 300 million dollars that would be better spent on Uncharted content.

 

[midnightAI]

Where do you think budget comes from? There is a reason Sony didn't buy Crystal Dynamics and Eidos for 300 million. They didn't want Tomb Raider as a game or as a movie, let alone a shitty TV show.

Any money Sony has for that genre, they'll put into making Uncharted a major transmedia franchise. That's 300 million dollars that would be better spent on Uncharted content.

Hmm, do you have an article or something I could read about the above? Sounds unusual

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Hmm, do you have an article or something I could read about the above? Sounds unusual

What are you talking about?

Square Enix shopped around Eidos and Crystal Dynamics or do you think they asked Embracer and took the first offer they got?

They would have gone to all major publishers and the best deal they got was 300 million.

Why would Sony who has a Picture studio balk at paying 300 million for Tomb Raider + other IP and two major studios?

It's pretty obvious. The operating costs for the studios weren't worth it and the diversity of IP wasn't worth it. If Sony thought Tomb Raider was worth more than Uncharted, they would have bought it.

The Uncharted movie had a budget of 120 million and with advertising would have cost at least 240 million if not more. There have been 3 tomb raider movies released and their total box office is 700 million only 300 million more than Uncharted after 1 movie.

Where does it make sense to double dip?

 

[ungalo]

Except you know. They are fully profitable with a 38.074 billion kr (~3.2 billion Euro) revenue reported during 2023. All these layoffs are to reduce net dept.

Ubisoft by comparison reported a 1.814 billion negative revenue for 2023 and no one is talkin about them imploding.

What does negative revenue mean ? Are you saying Ubisoft lost almost 2 billions and Embracer made 3 billions of profit ? Seems highly unlikely.

From what i know Ubisoft operating income was -500 millions. As for Embracer, i don't know if they make any money, 3 billions is their revenue, not their income.

 

[RoboFu]

Who the fuck said anything about Sony buying them? Or anyone else for that matter?

The best solution would be for them to sort their shit out.

he did..

I just hope that SONY can gobble up some of the ips....

On a side note: I was about to drop some bigger sums into Embracers stock last year. Im very happy I decided against it...

 

[rodrigolfp]

So SONYS trackrecord of building successful IPs and handling multiple development studios over and over again is irrelevant in your opinion?

It is irrelevant when they lock the games to PotatoStation.

 

[RickMasters]

How about neither Sony or Microsoft gets these ips but another third-party does so these games continue being multplatform?

That’s a nice sentiment but…..We don’t get to decide that here in the gaf though do we? We ain’t the ones buying these IPs.


I’m not saying your wrong but I’m am saying don’t be surprised if they take interest. The sentiments of the gaf couldn’t stop MS from buying way bigger fish so if they wake in here and whip out the cheque book, it is what is….. some of these studios and devs might be dead in the water if nobody buys them…. I’d rather they get acquired then left for dead. Even if it is by Sony or MS… or even Nintendo. because they ain’t in a situation where they can buy themselves back from embracer either. They ain’t inna situation where they can serve their own skins.

 

[Shut0wen]

I fully expect that every project at this point under Embracer that isn't assuredly profitable or can at least break even will be canceled.

In April of 2021, Embracer's stock was worth 130 SEK.

Since then a few things have happened:

• Their stock has plummeted to 19.67 SEK... That's an 85 percent decrease in value
• In that same time period, the Swedish krona has fallen from 0.12 dollars to 0.092 dollars. To put in other terms 1 dollar used to buy about 9 krona and now it buys nearly 11.

The reason they're laying off staff is because they need to upright their profitability so that they don't have to close studios. Why are they closing studios instead of selling them? Because no one wants to buy them.

The COO leaving is just a precursor for their almost immediate future. People gave Square Enix shit for selling Crystal Dynamics and Eidos for 300 million, but they got out while the going was good.

People ignore that Square Enix bought Eidos for 130 million dollars and that included Crystal Dynamics. They sold for nearly 2.5x the value and Embracer almost certainly overpaid for them. Not sure why people thought these two studios were worth a billion dollars in the first place. We'll see how much Embracer can sell either studio for if they can at all, but I fully expect to see a fire sale across the board to put money into any projects that are viable.

Possibly but embraser brought eidos off square for double the amount because saudi government was going to invest billions to them and pulled out at the last minute, embraser was fucked over massively

 

[Kadve]

What does negative revenue mean ? Are you saying Ubisoft lost almost 2 billions and Embracer made 3 billions of profit ? Seems highly unlikely.

From what i know Ubisoft operating income was -500 millions. As for Embracer, i don't know if they make any money, 3 billions is their revenue, not their income.

Misread it, sorry. Yea Operating income for Embracer was 194 million kr (~16.6 million Euro). Which for companies like this is essentially 0.

Anyway Ubisoft is also going through restructuring right now and are expected to fire ~800 people this year across their studios.

 

[GHG]

he did..

 

[RickMasters]

That's all the more reason, Microsoft is likely a better fit due to filling in their void of third person narrative heavy game.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they are already smelling the blood in the water over at embracer. And there was that one time they were willing to pay for TR exclusivity for a year. And they are looking to buy more studios and publishers……if I was Nadella and spencer I’d be looking at this and thinking “ maybe we would like to add Deus Ex and TR to the portfolio”….. maybe Sony thinking the same thing.


Somebody is gonna make a move.

 

[midnightAI]

What are you talking about?

Square Enix shopped around Eidos and Crystal Dynamics or do you think they asked Embracer and took the first offer they got?

They would have gone to all major publishers and the best deal they got was 300 million.

Why would Sony who has a Picture studio balk at paying 300 million for Tomb Raider + other IP and two major studios?

It's pretty obvious. The operating costs for the studios weren't worth it and the diversity of IP wasn't worth it. If Sony thought Tomb Raider was worth more than Uncharted, they would have bought it.

The Uncharted movie had a budget of 120 million and with advertising would have cost at least 240 million if not more. There have been 3 tomb raider movies released and their total box office is 700 million only 300 million more than Uncharted after 1 movie.

Where does it make sense to double dip?

I'm talking about Sony having a specific budget for a genre. Where does it say Sony only have X amount for third person narrative action games?

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Aren't we all.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm talking about Sony having a specific budget for a genre. Where does it say Sony only have X amount for third person narrative action games?

I doubt they have a specific budget for a genre, but it's clear that Sony wasn't interested, and it is sensible that they wouldn't be.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

And you want Sony to buy them? Ask bungie how’s that’s going right now.

1. Bungie operates independently.
2. MS has yet to fully prove that they can handle their current load.

 

[Holammer]

An investor friend of mine has been absolutely befuddled by Embracer's acquisition spree for the past few years. His theory is that they are putting together a package to sell to one of the dragons like MS, Tencent or Amazon. It's not or never was a genuine attempt to create a long term company, only a long con.

 

[Outlier]

let's pray for Warhorse Studios

Wait... What!? Noooo!
This industry! smh

 

[midnightAI]

I doubt they have a specific budget for a genre, but it's clear that Sony wasn't interested, and it is sensible that they wouldn't be.

Exactly, they won't have a budget for a genre.

Also, we don't actually know if Sony is not completely done with Uncharted. They may have no plans going forward to keep it going (I think they will, but there are no gaurantees)

 

[midnightAI]

An investor friend of mine has been absolutely befuddled by Embracer's acquisition spree for the past few years. His theory is that they are putting together a package to sell to one of the dragons like MS, Tencent or Amazon. It's not or never was a genuine attempt to create a long term company, only a long con.

That was my suspicion at the start, looks like that could backfire massively though.

 

[RoboFu]

1. Bungie operates independently.
2. MS has yet to fully prove that they can handle their current load.

id rather some other thrid party take them on if need be actually or at least sell the good ips off to different thridparties.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Exactly, they won't have a budget for a genre.

Also, we don't actually know if Sony is not completely done with Uncharted. They may have no plans going forward to keep it going (I think they will, but there are no gaurantees)

LOL, they just had a 400 million dollar movie in the Uncharted franchise and just started releasing it on PC...

They're definitely continuing Uncharted, it just might not be from Naughty Dog or a continuation of the franchise from Uncharted 4.

 

[midnightAI]

LOL, they just had a 400 million dollar movie in the Uncharted franchise and just started releasing it on PC...

They're definitely continuing Uncharted, it just might not be from Naughty Dog or a continuation of the franchise from Uncharted 4.

Like I said, I think Sony will carry on with the franchise (too much of a cash cow) but all we know so far is there are no announcements of a new game and the only announcement we have had regarding Uncharted is that Naughty Dog are finished with it. We have had one film with no announcements of a second other than the Producer saying the first one did well and that he'd like to do it (so they likely haven't started making it so it's at least a couple of years away if they do green light it)

 

[BennyBlanco]

 

[Denton]

Someone save Warhorse! Kingdom Come Deliverance was great and I would love a new RPG by them.

It is deep in development. I suspect if it was at any risk Dan Vávra would bankroll the rest of the dev time himself.

 

[Paperboy]

An investor friend of mine has been absolutely befuddled by Embracer's acquisition spree for the past few years. His theory is that they are putting together a package to sell to one of the dragons like MS, Tencent or Amazon. It's not or never was a genuine attempt to create a long term company, only a long con.

Or perhaps Lars at Embracer is truly passionate about video games and took the opportunity to own all these classic IPs when the chance presented itself, in hopes of the current investors would invest more money into his company. Not everything has to be so bleak and cynical.

 

[Stafford]

Hopefully Tencent doesn't eat them up or something like that.

Genuine question, why not? Wouldn't they keep all these games multiplatform? I sure don't want these studios such as Crystal and Eidos Montreal to just.....well....die,i guess?

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Genuine question, why not? Wouldn't they keep all these games multiplatform? I sure don't want these studios such as Crystal and Eidos Montreal to just.....well....die,i guess?

The CCP is embedded enough in gaming.

 

[AJUMP23]

I know the CEO was upset he did not get a major injection of Saudi cash. I am sure the group is beginning to debrace.

 

[Gambit2483]

The best we can hope for is for someone, not Xbox, to at least buy and save these IP.

 

[deathsaber]

Can't just the Tomb Raider IP be bought at this point, since we are basically at the point of a fire sale. I could really take or leave CD at this point. Their goose is cooked. The Avengers is one of the biggest failures of recent history (when comparing to expecations). i know people still hug onto them "buuuut Legacy of Kain!!!" and all that. But let it go. That IP is done. Nobody works there today who worked on those games in the late nineties/early aughts. And CD has likely done all there is to be done with Tomb Raider. The IP just needs fresh creative blood behind it. CD no longer has any identity, especially since it went to Embracer.

 

[Skifi28]

The vultures are circling, already smelling blood.

 

[M1chl]

Embracer was the most retarded gaming project, I've seen

 

[bender]

Consolidation is a wonderful thing.

 

[Boss Mog]

And you want Sony to buy them? Ask bungie how’s that’s going right now.

That's because their focus is on GaaS and gamers don't want GaaS, well not poorly made, money grubbing GaaS anyway. I'm sure Sony would love for Bungie to make a new single player PS exclusive franchise akin to Halo but Bungie wants to be multiplatform, so that means GaaS.

I actually think Sony picking up Eidos Montreal and Crystal Dynamics would be great for them as they are talented devs. Tomb Raider and Deus Ex would be good IPs for PlayStation.

 

[Stamps1646]

Hopefully Tencent doesn't eat them up or something like that.

Tencent likes to invest in companies that make money, so they should be safe.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Amazon will likely buy the Tomb Raider IP (and the studio working on it) since they're fully funding and publishing the next game; plus they also have a TV show and a new movie in the works.

 

[Lunarorbit]

Embracer is one of the most mismanaged businesses I've seen in any sector. It still seems like a giant scam; from the start it gave me bad crypto company vibes.

All that ip they bought to just do nothing with. If you wanted to be bought out as a gamepass studio you have to produce something. The only notable game off the top of my head was the Mars attacks game remake.

See I can't even remember the name of that series cause embracer did nothing with it. It's embarrassing what they are.

 

[SodaZA]

Sony and M$ sure would love pieces of Embracer, but something tells me Amazon is going to get the lion's share, they have the money and desperately need proper studios and heck getting the Tolkien and Tomb Raider IPs would be the icing on the top for Bezos

 

[Gambit2483]

Embracer is one of the most mismanaged businesses I've seen in any sector. It still seems like a giant scam; from the start it gave me bad crypto company vibes.

All that ip they bought to just do nothing with. If you wanted to be bought out as a gamepass studio you have to produce something. The only notable game off the top of my head was the Mars attacks game remake.

See I can't even remember the name of that series cause embracer did nothing with it. It's embarrassing what they are.

I would love to see a documentary some day on them. I feel like there's definitely some shadiness going on behind the scenes at Embracer...

 

[lh032]

Microsoft can save them, definitely.

 

[Esca]

Everything else to the side, I think it would of have awesome to have crossover where Croft and Drake appear in their games together. Both could be independently in their next adventure and partially way through they run into each other and work together. Would be amazing I think

 

[SmokedMeat]

What third party is this supposed to be? The market is consolidating. This process is by far not over. I would rather see games like Deus Ex in the hands of someone like SONY.

So we can get Deus EX GaaS multiplayer Shooter?

 

[Warablo]

Deus Ex and Tomb Raider deserve to survive

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Microsoft will buy them and finally they will get Tomb Raider exclusive to Xbox like they've wanted all these years

Tomb Raider franchise will then promptly die because no one on Xbox will buy it

 

[bitbydeath]

Sigh, you had one job Embracer.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

On one hand that’s hilarious mismanagement with all acquisitions they made.
On the other hand they almost tricked Saudis for 2bln and Saudis losing money is always a good thing.