Support NeoGAF

[drganon]

What a dumb lawsuit. It'll be thrown out by a judge before it even has a chance to go to trial.

 

[KungFucius]

That article is a joke. Is not the consumers that get ripped off by the 30% tax, its the publishers that put the games on the store. And all stores charge a 30% tax, except Epic as far as i know.

It is both. If the obnoxious store tax did not exist we would be paying less for games and apps. This is an interesting suit because the non digital versions of older games do get discounted and they only have a slim retail markup. Whatever, this is all Apple and Valve's fault.

 

[Topher]

It is both. If the obnoxious store tax did not exist we would be paying less for games and apps.

EGS has a lower commission rate and the prices are still the same. Without commission, there would be no games or even consoles.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

It is both. If the obnoxious store tax did not exist we would be paying less for games and apps. This is an interesting suit because the non digital versions of older games do get discounted and they only have a slim retail markup. Whatever, this is all Apple and Valve's fault.

How would stores exist it they didn't tax products? And how would that lower prices?

 

[adamsapple]

Their goal is not to succeed, but to raise awareness

Or to get a nice settlement out of court, maybe.

 

[SoloKingRobert]

30% is a standard tax for any digital store. They going to sue them all?

Epic Games Store and Microsoft Store for Windows charges a 12% commission fee. It's not standard for any digital store front.

 

[lh032]

this sounds like those news that will be forgotten in a few weeks.

 

[ArtHands]

What exactly is here to be gained except for companies making more dollars?

Technically, it all stays the same but the distribution would be different. Remember how Epic said that the cut would benefit better quality games, payment/deals for developers and lower prices? I don't see any of this; first, quality is hard to quantify and second, what there is to quantify I can tell you it doesn't make the cut as of now. I don't see games on release cheaper on EGS than on other platforms. Same goes for the Windows Store that supposedly takes 10% IIRC., e.g. Outer Worlds cost regular 59,99 EUR still.

I mean, this happens all the time. Like a decade ago the kerosene taxes for air lines which then increased their ticket prices? Increasing tenure cost for stores and restaurants who then increases their prices? Money, if imagined on a scale, usually flows into one direction since the world's first inflation in the 16th century when the Spanish brought 300 tons of silver per year into Europe. Companies want (to keep) their cut and they will simply increase prices. What will perhaps never happen is that they lower them, especially long established and accepted prices. So taking the cut from one company will only give it to another. The end-consumer will always pay the same unless companies try to undersell for acceptance, usually to gain market entry (EGS does this sort of with giving away games for free or vouchers all the time to get people use that platform, which gives Epic more leverage in negotiations when they say how many users they have).

Funny thing is the biggest games for PC this year (Elden Ring, Neon White, Ghostwire: Tokyo, Lego Star Wars Skywalker Saga, The Quarry, Stray etc) are not on Epic.

 

[reinking]

Epic Games Store and Microsoft Store for Windows charges a 12% commission fee. It's not standard for any digital store front.

It is for consoles. You can bet this will spill over to Nintendo and Microsoft (Xbox) if anything comes of it. I'm not sure why people are actiing surprised since this has never been hidden news and it was ba large part of the Epic VS Apple case.

 

[MarkMe2525]

The fall of the traditional console market. Can we expect subsidized console prices of manufacturers cannot expect to make as much as 30% on software sold? This may not be the case that breaks the camel's back, but it seems as if it is coming. I wonder if MS got out ahead of this with it's GamePass model?

 

[The_Mike]

That has nothing to do with game sharing.

But the problem is the same.

You lose access to your game either way.

Digital is more safe and convenient for me.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Your arrangement isn't common and not an argument in defence of Sony's practices. The games still cost $10+ over physical and thats the point.

About time someone highlighted this type of practice when it comes to digital games, Xbox & Nintendo are just as bad.

The games cost $70 whether you buy digitally or physically dumbo. The 30% has fuck all to do with that.

 

[rofif]

Patches are sent to the customer on physical discs then? Sounds inconvenient and wasteful.

Patches do not correspond to so much traffic as whole games

 

[MadchesterManc]

But the problem is the same.

You lose access to your game either way.

Digital is more safe and convenient for me.

It's not as if Game Share is the only way to save money either, 3rd party key sites stock console games these days. I picked up up Neptunia Reverse & Chernobylite on PS5 from Kinguin several months back, hell the Chernoblyte PS5 key was half the price of a steam key at the time on the same site. Just the other day I got a Gears of War 4 Xbox/Windows 10 key for £4. Folk aren't as locked into the stores as some think when it comes to digital consoles.

 

[SoloKingRobert]

It is for consoles. You can bet this will spill over to Nintendo and Microsoft (Xbox) if anything comes of it. I'm not sure why people are actiing surprised since this has never been hidden news and it was ba large part of the Epic VS Apple case.

Unlike PlayStation, you can purchase Xbox Digital Games from other retailers like Cdkeys, Amazon etc... They may have a case about Sony limiting their Digital Games to PlayStation Digital Store..

 

[Topher]

Unlike PlayStation, you can purchase Xbox Digital Games from other retailers like Cdkeys, Amazon etc... They may have a case about Sony limiting their Digital Games to PlayStation Digital Store..

That isn't the case they are making though. They are making the case that Sony is overcharging consumers by taking 30% commission on every sale on the store. That applies just as much to Xbox and Nintendo.

 

[Graciaus]

Epic Games Store and Microsoft Store for Windows charges a 12% commission fee. It's not standard for any digital store front.

So the stores that no one uses have a lower cut. Now name the ones that use 30%.

 

[SmokedMeat]

But the problem is the same.

You lose access to your game either way.

Digital is more safe and convenient for me.

No disagreements there.

I was responding to the two copies part. I game share on Switch, but only the account the game was purchased on owns the game.

 

[Captain Toad]

how does the consumer loose?

ever year I buy Cod my mate buys the other bigger hitter what ever that is, we game share and we can play each other on the same game with game sharing so how do we loose? I spend 60 he spends 60 and we get 2 games for that , which we can each play at the same time

The word is lose.

 

[Hugare]

Tim Sweeney right now:

 

[Unknown?]

How is it ripping of the consumer when physical discs are the same price? Only the publisher gets hurt but they also save on manufacturing and shipping so the trade off is fair.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Epic Games Store and Microsoft Store for Windows charges a 12% commission fee. It's not standard for any digital store front.

Neither of which has resulted in cheaper games for consumers.

It should also be noted that both of those massive corporations are trying to get a foothold in the PC marketplace. Both can hemorrhage money in order to get more publishers on board.

 

[Sybrix]

The games cost $70 whether you buy digitally or physically dumbo. The 30% has fuck all to do with that.

Wrong.

Ebay
GameStop
GAME
CD-Key sites

Numerous ways to get new games for less than MSRP.

Spoiler

 

[DarkMage619]

About damn time.
It can’t be right that the only way I can purchase a digital game on my PlayStation is via the psn store.
Whereas on switch and Xbox, I can buy codes from legit vendors like Amazon, game collection etc.

100% this. Digital software should be purchasable from any retailer and that retailer should be able to set the price for what they are selling.

Sony sells PSN Store credit in 3rd party retailers. This lawsuit is not about that. Its just nonsense.

This still would not allow competition with the software price. You'd still be charged the same price for the game. There would still be only one source for the actual digital software. The retailer could offer customers a sale the platform owner might not.

Unlike PlayStation, you can purchase Xbox Digital Games from other retailers like Cdkeys, Amazon etc... They may have a case about Sony limiting their Digital Games to PlayStation Digital Store..

The limiting of digital software to just one store was a more recent move as well. It certainly doesn't allow for pricing competition as it is now.

 

[Topher]

Wrong.

Ebay
GameStop
GAME
CD-Key sites

Numerous ways to get new games for less than MSRP.

Spoiler

But none of that has anything to do with the 30% commission on digital stores.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Wrong.

Ebay
GameStop
GAME
CD-Key sites

Numerous ways to get new games for less than MSRP.

Spoiler

All of which are going to charge you $70 at launch

The 10$ isn't a digital tax, dumbo

 

[Sybrix]

All of which are going to charge you $70 at launch

The 10$ isn't a digital tax, dumbo

They really don't, you need to shop around more.

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

Wrong.

Ebay
GameStop
GAME
CD-Key sites

Numerous ways to get new games for less than MSRP.

Spoiler

Are you saying new releases are priced below the base price and they eat all losses?

 

[Sybrix]

But none of that has anything to do with the 30% commission on digital stores.

My original comment wasn't about any 30% tax, just the point that physical is available cheaper for widely

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

My original comment wasn't about any 30% tax, just the point that physical is available cheaper for widely

So you're talking about sales?

 

[Sybrix]

So you're talking about sales?

My point was that if your digital only your restricted to pay what ever Sony/MS/Nintendo charge on the stores.

With physical, you have a pick of various outlets that can offer lower prices, even on new games.

 

[Topher]

My original comment wasn't about any 30% tax, just the point that physical is available cheaper for widely

 

[Swipeyowifelike]

My point was that if your digital only your restricted to pay what ever Sony/MS/Nintendo charge on the stores.

With physical, you have a pick of various outlets that can offer lower prices, even on new games.

The various outlets you talk about still pay Sony/MS/Nintendo to even have the games.

 

[ManaByte]

My point was that if your digital only your restricted to pay what ever Sony/MS/Nintendo charge on the stores.

But with Nintendo and MS that’s not true. Both of them allow other retailers to sell digital codes. Most stores have a wall of digital cards right next to their game cases. Sony banned the sell of codes a while ago so now the ONLY way to buy a digital PS game is through their store.

 

[John Wick]

MS, Sony and Nintendo's risk is developing the systems these games can exist on that often run at a hardware cost loss and are made up for in royalties.

Exactly! If consumers want to pay more for their hardware then be my guest. Epic charge 12% but the prices are the same. Let the consumer take the hit instead of the publisher etc.

 

[AlteredForms]

 

[CobraAB]

Apple charges 30% and they make fat coin on their hardware, unlike Sony.

 

[John Wick]

most retailers have a 30% mark up, doesn't matter if its digital or physical. people are forgetting things like gamesharing which comes into effect to. do we want cheaper games yes of coarse but the commission will always be the same.

end of the day we want the best consoles and that costs for R&D and we want the best games that also costs. do people think if Sony didn't charge 30% commission that games like God of war of Horizon zero dawn would be as good? that money they earn goes into there own studios and makes better games

Also don't forget the billions that MS/Sony/Nintendo have to put in to develop the systems. Which they sell at cost or a slight loss. Just imagine if they put $100 on each console?

 

[John Wick]

Apple charges 30% and they make fat coin on their hardware, unlike Sony.

Apples profits are inhumane!

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

Apples profits are inhumane!

Gotta keep them shareholder dividends rolling in.

 

[Kdad]

Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Apple, Steam, etc... if I'm not mistaken, all of them charge 30% commission. That is way too excessive. All of them deserved to be sued...
Publishers and developers deserve a bigger cut of the profits, since they are taking all the risks and are actually developing the game.

And SONY put all the R*D into making the hardware and sells it at razor thin margins with the intent of making profit on the gatekeeping of the store. SONY pours billions into making the hardware that these developers want to put their games on, SONY should be able to make a profit for that risk. *SONY can be replaced by MS or NIN in this argument as you please...

 

[Saiyan-Rox]

 

[GHG]

Just waiting to see how many people willingly throw themselves under the bus before showing the true intent of this lawsuit. Some of the posts here are embarrassing, if not unsurprising.

 

[IFireflyl]

Well, never stopped to think about it before, in a way, setting up your own sandbox and setting all the pricing and fees is sort of anti competitive, and if the law says it's not allowed there since 2015, maybe they have a real leg to stand on. If they do same applies of course to ms/apple/Nintendo.

That's not what anti-competitive means. Anti-competitive means that you are abusing your market share dominance in order to strong-arm the industry. Sony didn't do that. Almost everyone in the industry is doing the same thing.

Also, the 2015 law doesn't say anything about this. I read through it trying to find out what leg the lawyers have to stand on, and they don't have one. This is a garbage lawsuit that should, and will, fail.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

Guy filing the lawsuit probably can't find the latest version of The Jumping Taco Gold EX plus Alpha Edition featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series because Sony changed the store algorithm and is PISSED

 

[AlteredForms]

That's not what anti-competitive means. Anti-competitive means that you are abusing your market share dominance in order to strong-arm the industry. Sony didn't do that. Almost everyone in the industry is doing the same thing.

Also, the 2015 law doesn't say anything about this. I read through it trying to find out what leg the lawyers have to stand on, and they don't have one. This is a garbage lawsuit that should, and will, fail.

 

[Hustler]

What a joke, every company besides Epic Games charges 30% commission on digital games. So they need to sue Apple, Microsoft, Nintendo, etc. as well.

This claim acts as though these companies just sit on piles of cash and don't actively use that money to pump back into the video game ecosystem such as co-development, R&D, etc. Not to mention, we have no clue on each deal and the terms and conditions to go along with that. 30% may be the standard, but I bet you 1000% there are deals that are much less.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

My original comment wasn't about any 30% tax, just the point that physical is available cheaper for widely

And you provide GAME and GameStop as examples?

Come the fuck on lmao

 

[SlimySnake]

Retail took a 20% cut and that made sense because they needed to have brick and mortar stores in every town. Digital stores rely on servers that do not require that many employees to maintain and servers are housed in regions instead of every city and suburb. I know Steam has a server in Chicago that I typically hit and its like 2 states away but sometimes i will get virginia which is like 800 miles away. Same speeds. You cant tell me that running servers costs more than running entire stores paying payroll taxes, insurance, state and city taxes and permits.

Both companies are running a scam. It should be making games cheaper since the money is going directly into their pockets. Either have the digital cut at 20% so that the publisher gets an extra 10% back or reduce the cost of every game by 10% so the consumer saves around $6-7.

 

[AlteredForms]

And you provide GAME and GameStop as examples?

Come the fuck on lmao