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Sonic Origins | Review Thread

Susurrus

Member


They couldn't figure out the rights for the music? How is it different than every other time they release Sonic 3? GTFO. Especially paying this price for such a small collection.
 
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Don't buy this. You're rewarding Sega for reselling a low-effort collection of games. Sonic Jam on Saturn was a better value than this.
If I may nitpick this, Sonic Jam on Saturn cost full retail, doesn't have widescreen, and doesn't have Sonic CD. Also, it's music and sound wasn't 1:1 with the Genesis games, either, though for different reasons than Origins.

That said, I am really disappointed by Jun Senoue's renditions of the Sonic 3 Prototype music. They sound like he composed them on Windows MIDI with "Ultimate Megadrive Soundfont" rather than sounding like actual Sega Megadrive music. This is especially ridiculous when the "unfinished" prototype tracks are better able to blend in aesthetically with the rest of Sonic 3's music than Senoue's fake-ass FM synth. He needs to stick to guitars. Heck, I'd have rather he done these tracks in all guitars or even in Sonic 4's style (At least that sounded more like an FM synth than whatever these are) instead of how they currently sound.

The Anniversary Mode idea sounds nice but it's unfortunate that it seems to have adversely affected the rest of the package's design.
 

SpiceRacz

Member
If I may nitpick this, Sonic Jam on Saturn cost full retail, doesn't have widescreen, and doesn't have Sonic CD. Also, it's music and sound wasn't 1:1 with the Genesis games, either, though for different reasons than Origins.

That said, I am really disappointed by Jun Senoue's renditions of the Sonic 3 Prototype music. They sound like he composed them on Windows MIDI with "Ultimate Megadrive Soundfont" rather than sounding like actual Sega Megadrive music. This is especially ridiculous when the "unfinished" prototype tracks are better able to blend in aesthetically with the rest of Sonic 3's music than Senoue's fake-ass FM synth. He needs to stick to guitars. Heck, I'd have rather he done these tracks in all guitars or even in Sonic 4's style (At least that sounded more like an FM synth than whatever these are) instead of how they currently sound.

The Anniversary Mode idea sounds nice but it's unfortunate that it seems to have adversely affected the rest of the package's design.

Sonic Jam came out at a time when you couldn't buy these games in a single collection. The only collection I recall is Sonic Classics, which only had 1 & 2. Plus, there was a PC collection that had 3 & K. The Sonic games were common on Genesis, but buying all 4 still would have ran you $30+ in 1997. Sonic Jam was a great value when you consider what your options were at the time. In 2022, there's so many, arguably better, ways to play these games. To put it in perspective, I bought Sonic CD on Steam 9 years ago for less $3. I got Sonic 2 free through Amazon around the same time. And I don't think it's fair to say the inclusion of Sonic CD makes it any better than Jam. It doesn't elevate the collection that much, if at all.
 
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Nvzman

Member


They couldn't figure out the rights for the music? How is it different than every other time they release Sonic 3? GTFO. Especially paying this price for such a small collection.
The last time Sonic 3 & Knuckles was ever officially released by SEGA was 15 days before Michael Jackson's death.
Yes, the three new tracks suck, I'm not defending them, they should have just used the prototype tracks directly without converting them to MIDI. But seeing an astounding amount of people shitting on the game for 3 tracks being replaced is kinda appalling, especially when its obvious nobody truly understands that this is far beyond a simple rights issue. There never was a "rights" settlement in the first place, thats the entire issue.
The story goes that MJ basically demo'd some tracks with SEGA during S3's production, but he didn't end up committing fully to anything. SEGA re-purposed some of his demo tracks, and he was fine with it, so there was an unofficial degree of acceptance. Once MJ died though, his estate has been notoriously bloodthirsty as shit, and would definitely sue the shit out of SEGA if they even tried to negotiate using the music in the first place, given that they released multiple full commercial products using MJ's work without ever crediting him at all, let alone settling a contract.
Its a situation where there literally is nothing SEGA can do about it. Bitching about the tracks being changed is ignorant. You wanna complain about bugs or that the actual replaced tracks suck? Sure. But at least GTFO if you don't know the situation. This isn't some Jet Set Radio/GTA type shit.
 
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Meicyn

Gold Member
The last time Sonic 3 & Knuckles was ever officially released by SEGA was 15 days before Michael Jackson's death.
Yes, the three new tracks suck, I'm not defending them, they should have just used the prototype tracks directly without converting them to MIDI. But seeing an astounding amount of people shitting on the game for 3 tracks being replaced is kinda appalling, especially when its obvious nobody truly understands that this is far beyond a simple rights issue. There never was a "rights" settlement in the first place, thats the entire issue.
The story goes that MJ basically demo'd some tracks with SEGA during S3's production, but he didn't end up committing fully to anything. SEGA re-purposed some of his demo tracks, and he was fine with it, so there was an unofficial degree of acceptance. Once MJ died though, his estate has been notoriously bloodthirsty as shit, and would definitely sue the shit out of SEGA if they even tried to negotiate using the music in the first place, given that they released multiple full commercial products using MJ's work without ever crediting him at all, let alone settling a contract.
Its a situation where there literally is nothing SEGA can do about it. Bitching about the tracks being changed is ignorant. You wanna complain about bugs or that the actual replaced tracks suck? Sure. But at least GTFO if you don't know the situation. This isn't some Jet Set Radio/GTA type shit.
Yep. I’m disappointed about the lack of those three tracks, but I can’t neglect getting the ability to play through Sonic 3 & Knuckles with widescreen support and all. I am ready day one, and am here for any other remasters Sega has prepped.
 

Operations66

Neo Member
I pretty much only look forward to remastered old great games now. Somehow the art of making games that are actually FUN got lost as the big woke corporations took over the industry. Just like they destroyed the music industry and the film industry, the giant greedy evil stupid corporations are ruining gaming. So Sonic Origins looks good to me.

I like the idea of putting remastered classic game series in one cool collection like this and Halo: MCC.
 

SCB3

Member


They couldn't figure out the rights for the music? How is it different than every other time they release Sonic 3? GTFO. Especially paying this price for such a small collection.
Brad Buxer, the guy who made the music died a few years ago and his estate has been really hard to deal with in terms of licensing so SEGA just don't care enough to persue it I guess, probably would cost them more than it was worth it to them

I caved and bought the PS5 version, look Sonic 2 is my favorite game of all time so having yet another copy of it is like comfort food to me, plus getting the Whitehead versions on console was worth it
 

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman

Sonic is back! This time, members of the Sonic Mania team have updated Sonic for 16:9 with Sonic Origins, a Sonic compilation featuring Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic CD, and Sonic 3 & Knuckles. While Sonic Origins isn't the first time we've seen a compilation, it's the first time we've seen Sonic remade from the ground up with an updated aspect ratio. Sonic Origins releases June 23, 2022.
 

SCReuter

Member
Brad Buxer, the guy who made the music died a few years ago and his estate has been really hard to deal with in terms of licensing so SEGA just don't care enough to persue it I guess, probably would cost them more than it was worth it to them
Brad Buxer is still around and did a video interview last month where he briefly brings up Sonic the Hedgehog 3. Doug Grigsby III passed away in 2021. Cirocco Jones, Bobby Brooks, Darryl Ross, and Geoff Grace appear to still be alive...?

This is what Cirocco Jones had to say about the music situation back in 2012. Multiple people within the Jackson/Buxer sound team may be unhappy with Sega.

5 guys (me, Brad, Bobby, Darryl, Geoff) spent what seemed like countless hours creating compositions with MJ... and then trying our best to technically balance what [the] Sega team wanted to create music[ally] for the Sonic game. I was hired by Brad to come in to create different music cues and arrange on a lot of other ideas too. It was a long time ago... and was kinda challenging to say the least. I believe that there is a lawsuit going on or about to go on. Sega owes a lot of people money from the Sonic stuff. Speak with Bobby Brooks. He may tell you a lot more about everything...
 
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93xfan

Member


They couldn't figure out the rights for the music? How is it different than every other time they release Sonic 3? GTFO. Especially paying this price for such a small collection.
I agree. Wonder if they’ve just gotten scared to touch the music and are worried that it would lead to the music industry try to sue for royalties for every past release.

I know nothing of how it works so I’m sorry if my hypothesis is based on ignorance
 
This should have been a Sonic Mega collection of all games pre-PS4/XBO gen. Yes, even the weird ones like 3D Blast and the game gear editions.
Part of the hook of this collection was every game in this collection being re-coded from the ground up so they would have widescreen, visual enhancements, and bonus content. It's not just an emulators-n-ROMs package like Mega Collection is.

Imagine doing a complete re-coded port for every Game Gear game (Especially knowing that each of them has a different set of physics radically different from both the Megadrive games and each other, and there's a Metroidvania, a psuedo-shmup, two Kart racers and a isometric maze game in this set) and Spinball. Then imagine trying to figure out what version of Sonic 3D Blast you're gonna have in your collection in the first place, inevitably disappointing all the fans when you don't have the graphics and Special Stages of the Saturn version combined with all the gameplay tweaks Jon Burton did for his Director's Cut patch and widescreen support. After this, spend a long time figuring out if Art Alive and Wacky Worlds deserves to be in the collection just because Sonic appears in them. Then upset the fans by still not having a home version of SegaSonic the Hedgehog after years of telling fans you wanted to include it in a Sonic collection someday.

Okay, I'm going a bit far with this, but you get my drift. Most of those other games aren't nearly as universally liked as the main 3 or similar enough to them to just be thrown in like Sonic CD - the only possible exception to this being maybe Knuckles Chaotix, which may be it's own can of worms as that's one that's not even in Mega Collection or any latter-released Sonic compilation. (That said, Chaotix might be good DLC material if it is in fact possible.)
 

SCB3

Member
Played about an hour of Sonic 1 as Knuckles, seems pretty good in Widescreen imo Knuckles is definitely harder to use in Sonic 1 so far as the Levels were not designed for him and there is a lack of climbing in most Zones

Also did he always have this delay when he landed after a glide?
 

Spukc

Member
Played about an hour of Sonic 1 as Knuckles, seems pretty good in Widescreen imo Knuckles is definitely harder to use in Sonic 1 so far as the Levels were not designed for him and there is a lack of climbing in most Zones

Also did he always have this delay when he landed after a glide?
You can play as him in s1? Hoh weird.
The OG lockon gaveyou that ball game.

Also.. this collection should have had all the 2d sonic games from master/Gamegear. As many people never played those
 
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SCB3

Member
You can play as him in s1? Hoh weird.
The OG lockon gaveyou that ball game.

Also.. this collection should have had all the 2d sonic games from master/Gamegear. As many people never played those
Yea and Tails, its the Whitehead versions pretty much, before this collection were only on iOS and Android versions of Sonic 1, a reason at least to get this collection
 

SCB3

Member
I've finished Sonic 1 with all Emeralds as Knuckles, there was something bugging me though, Knuckles feels "Off" and I couldn't work out why until I went back and popped in the Original S&K cart, its his hitbox and this weird delay on landing after a glide

So go to the last level of Sonic 1 and Robotnik shoots down these slow moving Orbs, well Sonic can squeeze through them fine, Knuckles for some reason cannot fit even though it looks like he can, there were multiple times through the game where similar stuff like this occurs. Knuckles also cannot jump as high as Sonic so there are a few places you have to get creative to get past the level, I liked that though
 

Fake

Member
Looks like the game is a mess on PC.

 

Belthazar

Member


They couldn't figure out the rights for the music? How is it different than every other time they release Sonic 3? GTFO. Especially paying this price for such a small collection.

Michael Jackson died exactly 15 days after the last rerelease using the original songs, it's kinda obvious it's the Michael Jackson estate that's getting in the way.
 

Kacho

Member
Looks like the game is a mess on PC.

So much talk about keyboard controls lol. How are people still doing this to themselves?
 

Rayderism

Member
When these games first released back in the day, the only way to play them was on a CRT TV. Not having a CRT filter for this collection is almost criminal.

The widescreen versions are nice and all, but they should have had an option to play them using the original lives model instead of that coins deal. Being forced to play the 4:3 versions for the original lives model defeats the purpose of the widescreen mode, IMO.

The butchered music in Sonic 3......well, what can you really say? Sigh. Pretty much ruins the nostalgia for that game.

Personal opinion, but the cartoon animations really add nothing to the experience for me.

Definitely not the definitive edition of these games, that's for sure.
 
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Ristifer

Member
The PC version has Denuvo lol. Just stick with S3C or AIR if you want the widescreen S3&K experience. You know, with actual lives, too. None of this coin/infinite lives BS.
 

Spukc

Member
9 out of 10 scores for a bunch of roms. The absolute state of "game journalism". The new/old sonic 3 music is laughable. Avoid at all cost. Play Sonic 1 forever, Sonic 2 absolute and Sonic 3 A.I.R. instead.
The added stuff is dope weird challenges etc..

Everything else is a fucking joke
 
Going to play this after work. I wish it was 20 or even 30 bucks but I wasn't willing to wait until Black Friday for a deal. Seems like a decent amount of content.
 
No way, I honestly can't believe these scores after what they've showed.

edit: forget it, I was thinking of the new game :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 
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ManaByte

Gold Member
Music disaster aside, it is really nice to have the games in widescreen.

I'd honestly love to see more 16-bit era games get this treatment.
 
This collection is complete garbo lol there's some sort of forced filtering that blurs together the pixels, and the only filtering option you get is an "anti-aliasing" filter that is clearly bilinear filtering and makes the image look blurry as shit. I think there's some sort of weird framerate issue with at least Sonic 1 & 2 as well; I noticed the VRR refresh reading on the TV was fluctuating like crazy so I turned off G-sync and lo and behold, the game has a consistent stutter like any other game that has framerate/refresh mismatch. This is on PC, idk if the consoles have that issue

Comparison screenshots:
https://u.cubeupload.com/arekkusu/202206231346361.jpg - Sonic Origins S3&K
https://u.cubeupload.com/arekkusu/202206231345061.jpg - emulated S3&K no filter
https://u.cubeupload.com/arekkusu/202206231404291.jpg - Sonic Origins S3&K w/ "anti-aliasing" turned on
https://u.cubeupload.com/arekkusu/202206231418211.jpg - emulated S3&K w/ bilinear filtering

Anyway I'd recommend using Sonic 1 Forever, Sonic 2 Absolute and Sonic 3 AIR over this unless you're a real hardcore Sega paypig
 
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IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman

Sonic Origins (Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, Xbox One, PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X and Series S, Microsoft Windows) is a fancy new collection of the classic Sonic games with some nice perks. Let's dive in.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
The last time Sonic 3 & Knuckles was ever officially released by SEGA was 15 days before Michael Jackson's death.
MJ died in 2009. The original Sonic 3 was on the DS Sonic collection in 2010 and the Sega Genesis collection released on Steam in volumes from 2010-2012.
 

Thabass

Member

Stealth of Headcannon comes out and says that:
- while the submitted build had some issues, Sega made major changes that introduced more
- they had a tight deadline and asked for delays, stuff was rushed

Crazy that gamers nowadays are so powerful we can get the devs to talk shit and trash the finished product on the day of release.

Wouldn't be Sega and Sonic Team if a Sonic game didn't come out with bugs. They will never learn.

One of the bugs I noticed is an issue with the music not looping and it just ends. How the fuck do you make this bug happen? This is just one of the issues with glitching and straight-up weird issues with Sonic 3 too. I played all of Sonic 3 & Knuckles and it feels slightly different somehow. Like some of the physics changed a bit. Nothing crazy, but it's noticeable.

Sega get your head on straight, would you?
 

YCoCg

Member
Why does the audio in this sound like it came from 15 different places? You have the remastered stuff for Sonic 1 and 2, console recordings with noise, low quality rips for the extra music they sell as DLC and rerips for Sonic CD that haven't been volume adjusted so it sounds too low compared to everything else. And THEN you have the terrible job at the Sonic 3 music replacements. It's a wonder how badly SEGA could mess this up but they've sure done that!
 

BlackTron

Member
When a bundle of 30 year old games comes out full of bugs and issues because it had to be rushed.

On top of having bad options/modes by intentional design.

On top of jacking up the price after delisting the alternative.

Is Sega the new Ubisoft now? Dumbasses
 

Saber

Member

Stealth of Headcannon comes out and says that:
- while the submitted build had some issues, Sega made major changes that introduced more
- they had a tight deadline and asked for delays, stuff was rushed

Crazy that gamers nowadays are so powerful we can get the devs to talk shit and trash the finished product on the day of release.

Thats Sega and Sonic Team in a nutshell.
Taxman good convertions of the classics are nothing in the wrong hands.
Taxman did well in not associate himself anymore with Sega, imagine what would happen if Sega pick Mania 2 by their hands and do this garbage. Actually, that old rumor about Mania 2 cancelation only makes more sense by the minute.
 
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keefged4

Neo Member
I Platinumed this earlier today. Not worth the money imo. Mission mode is cool, but theres not enough of them. The "remixed" prototype music in 3&K is absolutely terrible. Didn't come across any bugs or glitches though, have to say. In regards to the image quality, it is poor - Looks like they are internally rendering the games themselves at 720p then blowing it up to 4k (on PS5 at least). Could have done so much more with this, extremely disappointing.
 
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