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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Making time for smaller, maybe more out-there games between big projects can help keep gargantuan AAA studios healthy, says studio design director Josh Sawyer of Osbidian.

Sawyer discussed game scope in response to a Twitter post from Jeryce Dianingana of EA studio Cliffhanger Games, currently at work on that Black Panther game. Dianingana argued it "would be nice to have big AAA studios making (not publishing) more small-scope games," pointing to "AA" examples like Hi-Fi Rush from The Evil Within studio Tango Gameworks.

"We would have more variety, experimenting," he adds. "Releasing more games in the same company more often. Nice for the Mental to work on other things. Not everything has to be 'BIG.'"

Other game developers echoed Dianingana's thoughts in the replies. WB Games Montreal writer Mitch Dyer reckons that "AA games on a AAA budget with a AAA team would probably lead to the best games of all time."

In a threaded response, Sawyer argues that even smaller, single-A games could have the same creative effect, and that "there's also an upside for the bottom line, which is staff retention."

Sawyer points to expanding AAA development cycles as one potential cause of industry burnout and developer turnover. "On long projects with large headcounts, especially ones fraught with staffing and scheduling issues, high turnover is not uncommon," he explains. "This turnover can occur at all levels, resulting in the loss of a lot of institutional knowledge. In some cases, devs leave the industry entirely.

"Many devs will slog to a release and then either immediately leave or get laid off because the execs need 1/3 the staff to go into pre-production on the next game. The loss of institutional knowledge is devastating at the team level, where execs often don't perceive the effects."

The gap between massive projects like this is where AA or single-A games could come in. "If a company has the funds to bridge the gap between projects, using an A or AA game as a way for (hopefully not completely) burned-out devs to refresh and recharge can be a good thing," Sawyer reasons.

Sawyer says that making games of this scale has tangibly benefited Obsidian, which is best-known for mammoth RPGs like the upcoming sequel The Outer Worlds 2 as well as Avowed. Sawyer puts the studio's survival game Grounded in the AA camp and classes narrative adventure Pentiment as single-A, and says both "have directly contributed to how we think about current and future projects." (He doesn't name The Outer Worlds 2 and Avowed here, but those are the only known upcoming Obsidian games.)

Small games can be good for AAA studios, and "directly contributed" to big RPGs like Avowed and The Outer Worlds 2, says Obsidian's Josh Sawyer

Pentiment and Grounded were extremely valuable for Obsidian

www.gamesradar.com

 

[winjer]

Truth be told, it's in the AA space that we can find the best games, in recent times.

 

[gothmog]

Seems like a great approach. You get the quirky, neat little games and blockbusters that might actually have new ideas in them.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Pentiment was really good and unique. Would love to see more stuff like that from MS. I want more Oris and Psychonauts populating the video game scene. I think Sony too should bankroll some more quirky games like they did in the past, like Tearaway or Puppeteer. They have Astrobot, which is great, but I wish they'd scale down their blockbusters and give more leeway for smaller games. We need more variety from big developers, and not just big epic AAA. Remember when Insomniac did Song of the Deep? Now it's all about Marvel.

 

[theStartupSound]

I hope, many companies try this idea – it sounds promising, for the devs but also for us gamers.

 

[mortal]

I think they can be as well. I'd love to see $30-$40 shorter games made by studios known for big AAA titles.
Many gamers are annoyed by both the increasing price and length of games, so there is a market for it.

This format can allow developers to experiment with more unconventional ideas, and possibly launch completely new IPs with relatively less risk.
I'm very much open to AA games from established studios and publishers.

 

[adamsapple]

It takes way too long to make AAA games, so if a studio can spare a smaller share of their workforce to make smaller AA / passion projects, I'm all for that.

 

[lh032]

What about BBB games?

 

[64bitmodels]

many of the best games from 6th gen have what would be considered AA production values now, so frankly more games like these is an A+ in my book.

 

[Punished Miku]

Every single MS studio should do this.

 

[ReBurn]

Truth be told, it's in the AA space that we can find the best games, in recent times.

I agree. Some of the more creative games, anyway. AAA has become formulaic and boring.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Is Obsidian a AAA studio though?

And are Avowed and OW2 big RPGs? Too much conflicting information coming from themselves.

Will play them regardless, but they need to market their games well.

 

[ungalo]

Incredible how the part about turnovers destroying teams and internal knowledge is palpable even as a player.

 

[Phase]

Oh are they finally starting to get it?

 

[Krappadizzle]

I'd love to see what a AAA studio can do with a smaller scoped project and quicker turn-around/iteration. It could be a good idea just to let the devs themselves regain a bit of sanity. Some of these studios have so much talent that has to be restrained because there's so many moving parts. If those same people were on a smaller team and more focused on a smaller, fun, title, we could see some very interesting things.

I remember E.A. and Ubisoft both having a smaller scale initiative thing going a few years back that led to some interesting titles from both of them as a result, but then they kind of went back to the tried and true money juggernauts at the further cost of their souls and creativity.

 

[Shut0wen]

Aa game development on a triple A budget lol wtf

Anyways this is literally the perfect scenario that probably never happen, 2K seems to be the only studio doing this with there private division, surprising since they one of the most under rated scumbags in gaming, EA did it for like 2 years and gave up, ubisoft of all developers have over 2k employees and they havnt made a budget game since varient heart which is scandalous

 

[killatopak]

I would love more AA games with the caveat that it has AA price. Meaning lower.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Pentiment rules

 

[nial]

"AA games on a AAA budget with a AAA team"? Does that even make sense?

We need more variety from big developers, and not just big epic AAA. Remember when Insomniac did Song of the Deep? Now it's all about Marvel.

Insomniac is your wrong choice here, considering their previous game was Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Small games can be good for AAA studios, and "directly contributed" to big RPGs like Avowed and The Outer Worlds 2, says Obsidian's Josh Sawyer

Pentiment and Grounded were extremely valuable for Obsidian

www.gamesradar.com

I've been saying this for years now. More ritles like Hi-Fi Rush are needed. With a smaller scale game, you can experiment while still having a polished game. Nintendo does this a lot.

 

[theStartupSound]

"AA games on a AAA budget with a AAA team"? Does that even make sense?.

I do think that makes sense. When you choose the AAA team but use it on a AA game (smaller scope), you need less budget compared to a bigger AAA game.

 

[nial]

I do think that makes sense. When you choose the AAA team but use it on a AA game (smaller scope), you need less budget compared to a bigger AAA game.

Then you wouldn't use a AAA budget, because that would be a AAA game.

 

[Perrott]

We need more variety from big developers, and not just big epic AAA. Remember when Insomniac did Song of the Deep? Now it's all about Marvel.

If they want to break away from their Marvel/Ratchet cycle, then they better give us a refreshed take on Resistance after all these years, not games that literally no one gave two shits about like Song of the Deep or their Oculus VR titles.

 

[Havoc2049]

This has actually been Microsoft's strong suit this gen with Quake Remaster, Pentiment, Hi-Fi Rush, Goldeneye 007 Remaster and the Quake 2 Remaster.

 

[Mr Hyde]

If they want to break away from their Marvel/Ratchet cycle, then they better give us a refreshed take on Resistance after all these years, not games that literally no one gave two shits about like Song of the Deep or their Oculus VR titles.

I cared about Song of the Deep

 

[T-0800]

I think every big studio should be making smaller indie like games between their big releases.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Do they even make AAA games? They are an AA studio.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

I would rather an original AA game then a remaster of a last gen game, that's for sure.

 

[theStartupSound]

Then you wouldn't use a AAA budget, because that would be a AAA game.

Depends on how you calculate it.
Let’s say, an AAA team costs 50 million per year and a normal AAA game needs 4 years to make. So, this normal AAA game would cost 200 million (all numbers are examples, I don’t know how the real numbers are).
Now, you take the same team and let them make a smaller scale game, which only takes 2 years to make. The quality of the game is the same, but it is much smaller in scope (not as many hours for a playthrough, not so many side quests, smaller world).

So, if you compare the cost per year, it is an AAA budget, but the complete cost of the project is not comparable with an AAA project.

 

[KXVXII9X]

I would rather an original AA game then a remaster of a last gen game, that's for sure.

I miss when PlayStation had a lot of AA/smaller AAA games in between bigger releases. I think Helldivers and Sword of the Sea are two upcoming games I can think of atm. I love TLOU games but the remaster feels so unnecessary. At least this soon.

 

[Danjin44]

Most of my favourite games of all time mostly are AA games.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Seems like a great approach. You get the quirky, neat little games and blockbusters that might actually have new ideas in them.

That is great but the biggest value is that you keep teams together and avoid corporate amnesia problems when the company is a revolving door constantly operating every few years… that was 343i modus operandi and see what it brought to them…

 

[Skull-Knight]

Avowed and ow2 big RPG???

 

[Peroroncino]

I'm sure having smaller projects that get your devs' passion going is nice for combating burnout, but the last game from them I consider AAA was New Vegas lmao.

I've yet to see anything about Avowed or OW2 that changes my mind.

Besides, it's not like you're gonna have your entire studio working on a single or multiple smaller projects, each time they're done with something bigger - that sounds like something that'd get messy very quickly. Someone will have to kickstart the next big thing asap, so some devs are still gonna get the short end of the stick.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

Very true, also aaa are usually disappointing bloatfests now

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

outer worlds 2?

ewwwwww

 

[Ozriel]

Do they even make AAA games? They are an AA studio.

Avowed and ow2 big RPG???

Man specifically said “long projects with large headcounts”. And there’s a very definite distinction in size, scope, budget and staff headcount between something like Grounded and Avowed.

Did you even read the OP?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Certainly great for variety. Maybe it's a yelling at clouds moment for me, but a lot of the AAA market seems to be getting stale, just rehashing the same ideas over and over again.

 

[Trilobit]

I think Sucker Punch should make a AA Sly Cooper sequel to help with burnouts.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Man specifically said “long projects with large headcounts”. And there’s a very definite distinction in size, scope, budget and staff headcount between something like Grounded and Avowed.

Did you even read the OP?

Yeah I did and? Did you read my post? Why are you trying to make my post about what you want and not about what I was asking?

Also the OP has pearls like "AA games on a AAA budget with a AAA team would probably lead to the best games of all time." from WB games writer, which is hilarious, because how can you give an AAA budget, AAA team, to an AA game and keep calling it AA? Some of these people are idiots.

There's merit to the whole "make something smaller in between big projects", but this might be easier said than done when talking about studios that are actually trying to push the envelope with whatever massive budget project they are working on. I've always defended that when Naughty Dog made Lost Legacy, and Insomniac made Miles Morales, that they had stepped into a path forward for bigger studios to follow but it doesnt seem like it has gotten much traction.

Maybe it's easier for a studio like Obsidian, as they shift between A and AA games.

 

[Ozriel]

Yeah I did and? Did you read my post? Why are you trying to make my post about what you want and not about what I was asking?

Also the OP has pearls like "AA games on a AAA budget with a AAA team would probably lead to the best games of all time." from WB games writer, which is hilarious, because how can you give an AAA budget, AAA team, to an AA game and keep calling it AA? Some of these people are idiots.

There's merit to the whole "make something smaller in between big projects", but this might be easier said than done when talking about studios that are actually trying to push the envelope with whatever massive budget project they are working on. I've always defended that when Naughty Dog made Lost Legacy, and Insomniac made Miles Morales, that they had stepped into a path forward for bigger studios to follow but it doesnt seem like it has gotten much traction.

Maybe it's easier for a studio like Obsidian, as they shift between A and AA games.

Your post was specifically about Obsidian not being an ‘AAA studio’ which is quite weird since that’s not what Sawyer’s argument was about.

That’s even a silly position to take, since studios that historically made smaller titles have often times pivoted into making bigger, AAA games. Housemarque is one example with Returnal. Or Ready At Dawn pivoting from making PSP games to The Order 1886.

Not sure what your comment also had to do with other stuff in the OP like ‘AA games with an AAA budget’

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Is Obsidian a AAA studio though?

And are Avowed and OW2 big RPGs? Too much conflicting information coming from themselves.

Will play them regardless, but they need to market their games well.

Seeing the gameplay trailer from Avowed... and no it does not look like a AAA game. It looks like a 360 era game to me.

This goes back to Microsoft buying a bunch of medium sized studios and publishers with medium sized studios. In all of Microsoft's acquisitions over the last couple of years they only got a handful of major AAA studios.

I think a lot of people convinced themselves that Microsoft buying these companies turned them from AA into AAA overnight, but that just isn't how it works.

Obsidian is a company that has looked to fund its games through kickstarter...

 

[Ozriel]

Seeing the gameplay trailer from Avowed... and no it does not look like a AAA game. It looks like a 360 era game to me.

I’m not sure it makes sense to insist the visuals of the an alpha build of a game will remain that way until release.

‘AAA’ is largely related to the budget and scope of games, and not necessarily whether you’re wowed by the visuals.

But this really has nothing to do with the OP.

This goes back to Microsoft buying a bunch of medium sized studios and publishers with medium sized studios. In all of Microsoft's acquisitions over the last couple of years they only got a handful of major AAA studios.

I think a lot of people convinced themselves that Microsoft buying these companies turned them from AA into AAA overnight, but that just isn't how it works.

Obsidian is a company that has looked to fund its games through kickstarter...

Bruh…

 

[Buggy Loop]

Truth be told, it's in the AA space that we can find the best games, in recent times.

Mostly true and has been for a while. Even back a decade ago we had the likes of Binary Domain which was super fun AA.

AAA, especially nowadays, have diluted themselves into a gamer friendly mindset and it's all a bit dumbed down. Fucking COD-like money chasing money hungry marketing teams have taken control of studios for the most part and any snags in a game that could maybe lose potential buyers are removed.

Just think of the Ubisoft white/yellow painted ledges to tell you where to go and how much it spread into gaming AAA.

I think it's the main reason that the opposite reaction to this movement is the likes of Dark Souls being suddenly super popular, felt refreshing, and yes, Dark souls was definitely AA, maybe even A.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Seeing the gameplay trailer from Avowed... and no it does not look like a AAA game. It looks like a 360 era game to me.

This goes back to Microsoft buying a bunch of medium sized studios and publishers with medium sized studios. In all of Microsoft's acquisitions over the last couple of years they only got a handful of major AAA studios.

I think a lot of people convinced themselves that Microsoft buying these companies turned them from AA into AAA overnight, but that just isn't how it works.

Obsidian is a company that has looked to fund its games through kickstarter...

Microsoft has pivoted to AA space for long time now.

Makes more sense from gamepass perspective, to have variety of games that cater to different people, rather than few tent pole releases.

Avowed has a lot of time to release. Obsidian games always look good graphically, so not much concern there.