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[David___]

This isn't a gun issue, guns don't kill people.

Guns are literally made with the intent to make killing things easier

 

[SMOK3Y]

I would question that statistic actually. Doesn't seem to add up.

Nah seems too low US has had 19 mass shootings just in 2018...

Also trump calls other countries shitholes lol

 

[appaws]

I want to bring up an issue besides gun control, since we have another thread on that....

I looked at a few forums yesterday, some on the right and some on the left. I saw something disturbing....

Even after only just a few hours, I saw people trying really hard to fit the facts about the identity of the shooter into some narrative. I saw on ResetERA people almost gleefully reporting "ZOMG, he has a MAGA hat on his profile," or Thank God, he is white, or a white hispanic." On a right wing/libertarian forum I saw a bunch of posters who seemed happy when it was revealed that the kid had a latino last name, or even hoping that he was a DACA person.

Both such a gross way to react, I couldn't believe it. People are such fucks.

 

[BANGS]

Guns not allowed in Germany: few murder cases
Guns widely spread in USA: lots of murder cases almost every day.

If you want to imply that Americans are somehow inherently broken, that's you. As I seee it, the difference is guns. They kill.

Yes, I do imply that Americans are generally irresponsible and selfish, and it's our culture that leads to violence.

Also are you purposely being ignorant or ironic bringing up Germany of all places as an argument for disarming civilians? That's just fucking sick dude...

Guns are literally made with the intent to make killing things easier

What's your point? Bombs are more effective, easier to conceal, and easier to make at home and are the weapon of choice in some circles where it's illegal. Marijuana is illegal, look how nobody smokes it. I mean, common sense dude...

 

[lil puff]

I want to bring up an issue besides gun control, since we have another thread on that....

I looked at a few forums yesterday, some on the right and some on the left. I saw something disturbing....

Even after only just a few hours, I saw people trying really hard to fit the facts about the identity of the shooter into some narrative. I saw on ResetERA people almost gleefully reporting "ZOMG, he has a MAGA hat on his profile," or Thank God, he is white, or a white hispanic." On a right wing/libertarian forum I saw a bunch of posters who seemed happy when it was revealed that the kid had a latino last name, or even hoping that he was a DACA person.

Both such a gross way to react, I couldn't believe it. People are such fucks.

Yep, saw some of that garbage as well. I would like to think that these are a small minority of simple minded low hanging fruits that are very insecure and just want some attention. I just chuckle and move on.

 

[Senua]

Gun control is simply an euphemism for ban all guns. I vehemently against gun control. Using the logic of gun control proponents, we should ban all immigrants because some of them bombed us.

Your bullshit rights are more important to you than kids being slaughtered.

 

[KevinKeene]

Also are you purposely being ignorant or ironic bringing up Germany of all places as an argument for disarming civilians? That's just fucking sick dude...

?

Please explain.

 

[BANGS]

Your bullshit rights are more important to you than kids being slaughtered.

The lack of those very same "bullshit rights" is the reason kids all over the world get slaughtered throughout history... foh...

 

[BANGS]

?

Please explain.

You've never heard of World War 2?

 

[KevinKeene]

You've never heard of World War 2?

I didn't know I was a nazi ... wow.

 

[mr2xxx]

This person had been reported to local law enforcement and the FBI because everyone including the parents were concerned of this happening but due to Trump and the conservatives being bought out by the NRA,he was still able to legally purchase a weapon. We can’t even get common sense gun control that could of prevented an mentally deranged individual like this from obtaining a weapon.

 

[Zog]

Your bullshit rights are more important to you than kids being slaughtered.

Appeal to emotion, nice. What else would you like to ban to protect the children? Shall we check the stats on child deaths due to car accidents?

Annual United States Road Crash Statistics: http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing-road-users/road-safety-facts/road-crash-statistics

• Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year
• An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled
• Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year
• Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20
• Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person
• Road crashes are the single greatest annual cause of death of healthy U.S. citizens traveling abroad

Better start a movement to ban cars!

 

[UtterlyPerplexed]

Yes, because these two things are clearly equivalent:

a) guns - designed to purely kill/maim/wound

b) cars - designed to carry people from A to B

What an asinine "argument".

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Or we could start a movement to better regulate guns and look into licenses and registration just like we do with cars.

 

[mr2xxx]

Appeal to emotion, nice. What else would you like to ban to protect the children? Shall we check the stats on child deaths due to car accidents?

Annual United States Road Crash Statistics: http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing-road-users/road-safety-facts/road-crash-statistics

• Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year
• An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled
• Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year
• Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20
• Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person
• Road crashes are the single greatest annual cause of death of healthy U.S. citizens traveling abroad

Better start a movement to ban cars!

Whataboutism at its finest. Automation is already going to take care this issue in the near future. Guns on the other hand, we need to act.

 

[KevinKeene]

Appeal to emotion, nice. What else would you like to ban to protect the children? Shall we check the stats on child deaths due to car accidents?

Annual United States Road Crash Statistics: http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing-road-users/road-safety-facts/road-crash-statistics

• Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year
• An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled
• Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year
• Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20
• Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person
• Road crashes are the single greatest annual cause of death of healthy U.S. citizens traveling abroad

Better start a movement to ban cars!

I got a bit dumber reading this posting :/

 

[Zog]

Yes, because these two things are clearly equivalent:

a) guns - designed to purely kill/maim/wound

b) cars - designed to carry people from A to B

What an asinine "argument".

What are you going to do if you have a burglar in your house? Aren't you going to call people with guns to protect you and yours?

 

[Alx]

Better start a movement to ban cars!

Even disregarding the fact that weapons are designed to hurt people, unlike cars, road deaths is and has always been considered a major issue, and that's why the automobile market is one of the most regulated in our civilization. Not anyone can use a car (and even if you earn that right it can be taken back), there is a full registration of all cars in circulation, very strict laws on their safety level,...

 

[Zog]

Even disregarding the fact that weapons are designed to hurt people, unlike cars, road deaths is and has always been considered a major issue, and that's why the automobile market is one of the most regulated in our civilization. Not anyone can use a car, there is a full registration of all cars in circulation, very strict laws on their safety level,...

..and yet would you say more kids are killed in car accidents than with guns?

 

[Alx]

..and yet would you say more kids are killed in car accidents than with guns?

I would say that if people are killed then we need regulation. It works for cars and it should work for guns.

 

[Zog]

I would say that if people are killed then we need regulation. It works for cars and it should work for guns.

Guns are regulated but many want to ban them.
My problem in this thread is the appeal to emotion but ONLY when it pertains to guns. When it comes to kids dying from car related events, all of a sudden the appeal to emotion disappears.

 

[Alx]

Guns are regulated but many want to ban them.
My problem in this thread is the appeal to emotion but ONLY when it pertains to guns. When it comes to kids dying from car related events, all of a sudden the appeal to emotion disappears.

Except maybe for Japan, even the strictest countries don't have a full ban of weapons, so if that's your fear it's unfounded.
Considering the emotional aspect, when a bus falls off a cliff and a dozen of kids die, the shock isn't too different from a mass shooting, and it's "only" an accident while a shooting is intentional.
For regular road deaths, well it's harder to have the same emotional attachment since it's an aggregation of isolated events. Just like the fact that many deaths by gun are accidents with kids playing with them or while cleaning them, it's a major part of the issue but doesn't generate much emotion, unless you know the victim personally (like for road accidents).

 

[David___]

What's your point? Bombs are more effective, easier to conceal, and easier to make at home and are the weapon of choice in some circles where it's illegal. Marijuana is illegal, look how nobody smokes it. I mean, common sense dude...

Good luck finding sources on how to make a bomb without a red flag getting put right next to your name

 

[Zog]

Except maybe for Japan, even the strictest countries don't have a full ban of weapons, so if that's your fear it's unfounded.
Considering the emotional aspect, when a bus falls off a cliff and a dozen of kids die, the shock isn't too different from a mass shooting, and it's "only" an accident while a shooting is intentional.
For regular road deaths, well it's harder to have the same emotional attachment since it's an aggregation of isolated events. Just like the fact that many deaths by gun are accidents with kids playing with them or while cleaning them, it's a major part of the issue but doesn't generate much emotion, unless you know the victim personally (like for road accidents).

I just wanted to show the inconsistency in the Appeal to Emotion. I am not even a gun owner (currently) but if the time comes that I choose to purchase one I want that right to be there for me. Mass shootings are an illegal use of a gun just as driving into a crowd is an illegal use of a car. Neither of these could be made 'more illegal' than they already are.

 

[Alx]

Both may be "just as illegal", and still in the US there is more restriction on driving a car than there is on using a gun.

 

[BANGS]

Good luck finding sources on how to make a bomb without a red flag getting put right next to your name

A chemistry textbook?

 

[UtterlyPerplexed]

What are you going to do if you have a burglar in your house? Aren't you going to call people with guns to protect you and yours?

What in deuces? I addressed your ridiculous point that gun deaths are in any way equivalent in context to road-related deaths and you pivot to a hypothetical home burglary question in response?

Alright, I'll play. But disclosure first: I'm a UK national in a country that banned guns after Dunblane in 1996. We still occasionally hear now and then some isolated reports of deaths by guns, but not a single one of them have been mass shootings. The closest we came to one? The Raoul Moat manhunt back in 2010.

When I call the police, I am not expecting an officer to pop up packing heat. Your average burglar is not going to come in armed as heavily as a soldier on live duty. They're more likely to wield a knife or something similar, which let me tell you, requires more effort to commit murder or grievous bodily harm with than a weapon expressly designed to efficiently and systematically maim and mortally wound multiple people in mere seconds or minutes. Your average UK burglar is far more likely to make off with the goods than express any willingness let alone capacity to easily massacre my entire family in the house.

Of course I would never practically expect the US to follow the footsteps of the UK and Australia given how prevalent and deeply rooted the culture of gun ownership is to you lot that the unimpeded ability to purchase and own guns is considered by many to be an unimpeachable right while healthcare is not. Given the reticence of Republicans at the moment to seriously consider what can be done in light of a teenager with a history of known psychopathic tendencies being able to legally purchase weapons without triggering any warning alarms truly speaks volumes about the staggering inadequacy of your current firearms regulations. You want to talk about cars? You are aware of how thoroughly regulated the entire automotive industry is, right? Would a large contingent of Americans continue to condemn the government for forcing them to wear seatbelts? I mean, talk about a clear infringement of personal freedom!

 

[Zog]

Both may be "just as illegal", and still in the US there is more restriction on driving a car than there is on using a gun.

You know who cares little for regulations? Criminals.

 

[Osukaa]

USA weirds me out. 18 school shootings since the turn of the year I've read. I guess that happens when u drop a bunch of guns into a messed up society.

More outrage over flags, anthem kneeling and shit than kids dying. Messed up.

As a US Citizen I sadly agree, we are so fcked up with our gun laws its beyond a joke. The sad thing is that for me at least I see no reason why this will change the gun laws. We have had 18 so far and nothing has happened it saddens me to no end to imagine how it must feel to lose a loved one to a tragedy like this. Shits fcked up and I dont see a fix to this unless we completely overhaul gun ownership. I don't like guns and I am against them in everyway possible but I realize that its so embedded in our culture that's its nigh impossible to get rid of them. I know people say make sure you get out and vote but the problem is that both parties seem to have no answer to this. I'm glad I live in California where gun laws are probably the most strict in the US but its still a problem and not that difficult to get one if you know the right people.
Sorry for the rant but this just breaks my heart. I hope in my lifetime I get to see a change that actually makes a difference but I doubt it...

 

[Alx]

You know who cares little for regulations? Criminals.

As a matter of fact they do care. The registration of all cars makes it more difficult for criminals to use them in heists for example. They need to rely on parallel markets, that makes their task more difficult and creates more opportunities of being caught.

 

[BANGS]

Yes, because these two things are clearly equivalent:

a) guns - designed to purely kill/maim/wound

b) cars - designed to carry people from A to B

What an asinine "argument".

Technically a gun just moves a bullet from A to B, you can frame the argument however you with when you have an agenda...

 

[Zog]

As a matter of fact they do care. The registration of all cars makes it more difficult for criminals to use them in heists for example. They need to rely on parallel markets, that makes their task more difficult and creates more opportunities of being caught.

Are you telling me there are no unregistered cars and/or no unlicensed drivers?

 

[Alx]

Are you telling me there are no unregistered cars and/or no unlicensed drivers?

There are unregistered cars and unlicensed drivers BECAUSE there is a registration and licensing system. And that system serves a purpose. And it allows the authorities to detect unregistered cars and unlicensed drivers as liabilities.
It's like saying "who needs laws since the bad guys break them ?", well it's precisely for that reason that we need laws.

 

[Zog]

There are unregistered cars and unlicensed drivers BECAUSE there is a registration and licensing system. And that system serves a purpose. And it allows the authorities to detect unregistered cars and unlicensed drivers as liabilities.
It's like saying "who needs laws since the bad guys break them ?", well it's precisely for that reason that we need laws.

Likewise, we have unregistered guns because there is a registration system. Making things harder to get doesn't stop the criminals, it only stops the law abiding citizens.

 

[Soleil rouge]

We need to start keeping a close eye on kids who show signs of psychopathy. All the warning signs were there: killing animals, violence, antisocial...on top of that, he had a huge collection of weapons. Why does society, for the most part, ignore these cases until it's too late?

 

[Alx]

Likewise, we have unregistered guns because there is a registration system.

From what I read, there isn't in most states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

Making things harder to get doesn't stop the criminals, it only stops the law abiding citizens.

Making things harder in general makes it easier to catch criminals. It makes things slower for law abiding citizens, but doesn't block them altogether. It takes several months to train for a license and whatever time to register a vehicle, but everything considered most people can live with it, and once again it serves a purpose.

 

[lil puff]

We need to start keeping a close eye on kids who show signs of psychopathy. All the warning signs were there: killing animals, violence, antisocial...on top of that, he had a huge collection of weapons. Why does society, for the most part, ignore these cases until it's too late?

I think to some degree we are numb to these behaviors or we make excuses.

I mean, a half naked, strung up man can walk inside a train yelling and screaming all kinds of evil and not one person on the train will bat an eye. No one knows wants to just assume the worse case scenario. I hate to say it, political correctness plays a part in this. We don't want to accuse people of things they haven't yet done. We do not want to just be suspicious of everything that looks abnormal. It's such a fine line.

 

[UtterlyPerplexed]

Technically a gun just moves a bullet from A to B, you can frame the argument however you with when you have an agenda...

...are you people for real? What kind of goalposts moving is this?

Cars are designed as a method of transportation. The FACT that one can tragically use a car as a weapon to kill or that cars are inherently dangerous moving boxes of metal that under wantonly careless or malevolent hands can kill and grievously wound innocents does not take away the reality that your car right now was not intended for nor built for such a purpose. It's why cars who can drive them and how are heavily regulated.

Guns' only purpose are to kill, maim and wound. It doesn't matter if the target is a deer or another human being. That's what it does, yet astonishingly regulations for it are so abysmal that it has allowed a psychopathic teenager to purchase a weapon that has snuffed out 17 innocent lives yesterday. "Your steak knife can kill as well," someone might cry, missing the point that steak knives are not manufactured for the purpose of inflicting mortal injuries. It just so happens they possess the capacity to do just that when wielded as a weapon. And yes, over here, carrying a knife in public is an offence.

 

[Senua]

...are you people for real? What kind of goalposts moving is this?

Cars are designed as a method of transportation. The FACT that one can tragically use a car as a weapon to kill or that cars are inherently dangerous moving boxes of metal that under wantonly careless or malevolent hands can kill and grievously wound innocents does not take away the reality that your car right now was not intended for nor built for such a purpose. It's why cars who can drive them and how are heavily regulated.

Guns' only purpose are to kill, maim and wound. It doesn't matter if the target is a deer or another human being. That's what it does, yet astonishingly regulations for it are so abysmal that it has allowed a psychopathic teenager to purchase a weapon that has snuffed out 17 innocent lives yesterday. "Your steak knife can kill as well," someone might cry, missing the point that steak knives are not manufactured for the purpose of inflicting mortal injuries. It just so happens they possess the capacity to do just that when wielded as a weapon. And yes, over here, carrying a knife in public is an offence.

Oh, they're for real alright haha.

 

[BANGS]

Guns' only purpose are to kill, maim and wound.

 

[mrkgoo]

I got a bit dumber reading this posting :/

...are you people for real? What kind of goalposts moving is this?

Cars are designed as a method of transportation. The FACT that one can tragically use a car as a weapon to kill or that cars are inherently dangerous moving boxes of metal that under wantonly careless or malevolent hands can kill and grievously wound innocents does not take away the reality that your car right now was not intended for nor built for such a purpose. It's why cars who can drive them and how are heavily regulated.

Guns' only purpose are to kill, maim and wound. It doesn't matter if the target is a deer or another human being. That's what it does, yet astonishingly regulations for it are so abysmal that it has allowed a psychopathic teenager to purchase a weapon that has snuffed out 17 innocent lives yesterday. "Your steak knife can kill as well," someone might cry, missing the point that steak knives are not manufactured for the purpose of inflicting mortal injuries. It just so happens they possess the capacity to do just that when wielded as a weapon. And yes, over here, carrying a knife in public is an offence.

The comparison is ridiculous. I don't get it either.

 

[GamingEnthusiast]

The @econd aendment will be removed if these things keep happening. then rtial law will be enforced and we wont have any guns to prottect us.

 

[bitbydeath]

As an outsider I don’t feel what I say would carry much weight, however if a ban were applied it would amuse me to no end if the announcement included an immediate ban on police guns too.

 

[Blood Borne]

That would explain why we (Australians) own more guns now than ever before.



We've been enlightened by your other posts so this will surprise no one.



.......and yet I'm going to out on a limb here and guess you aren't pro-immigration right? Wouldnt that be ironic?

"We should all be allowed guns even if a few hundred crazies are going to go around killing us, its just something that happens"

But at the same time,

"no, no immigrants through, one of them might be a crazy and kill us!"

Yes, you really did go out on a limb. I'm an immigrant and I'm very pro immigration, however, I'm not for open borders. I believe the current system in place is sufficient enough, just as I think the current "gun control" rules are sufficient enough.

So yes, your entire response was quite presumptuous and banal.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Dudes, don't entertain the car bullshit. It's just a deflection and is literally impossible to confuse. We're not interested in sophistry, we're interested in solving this gun problem.

We know that bangs is smart enough to know the difference, but not smart enough to put it above politics. Leave it at that.

 

[Blood Borne]

In countries that have rampant terrorist attacks, they have a bomb ban but that doesn't deter nor prevent terrorism from happening.

Alcohol/Drink driving causes thousands of death each year, yet there's no call for alcohol to be banned, but we blame the driver rightfully so, but rather than blaming the gunners, we call for guns to be banned. It's just another ruse by the left to strip away our liberty.

 

[lil puff]

I find it difficult to compare a drunk driving accident with a gun murder.

 

[TrainedRage]

You know what never happened in the 90's and previously? School shootings. Did guns not exist in America then? No. This is not a gun issue. It's a parental, mental health and societal issue.

I never hear hunters go, "yeah my GUN killed that 12 point buck not me"! People hate to take responsibility it seems.

 

[TheShadowLord]

I am not sure how the fbi works, but if they warned that was going to be a possible shooting, then they should have done more. Like to see if there is a person with the same full name as the user has. That should have been more than enough to book him.

 

[unhealthy_skeptic]

We need to start keeping a close eye on kids who show signs of psychopathy. All the warning signs were there: killing animals, violence, antisocial...on top of that, he had a huge collection of weapons. Why does society, for the most part, ignore these cases until it's too late?

How does one create an objective criteria for these warning signs? If we start rounding up all the people that exhibit warning signs such as liking guns, grand theft auto, and being alone, what kind of society are we creating here? I know plenty of sane people that exhibit many of the traits you list, and I don't believe that they deserve to suffer extra scrutiny from this judgemental society. So to answer your question, we ignore these cases until it's too late because we didn't know who was actually dangerous until the moment the murders happened. Warning signs just aren't a thing. Figuring people out is something that we haven't figured out yet.