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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

Artoris

Gold Member
The biggest issue, is that if the Russian system falls, it might lead to corrupt officials selling nukes in the black market.
This might lead to some countries acquiring nukes. An example of this would be Iran. But if Iran gets nukes, then Saudi Arabia will want them as well, to defend itself.
But then the question is from whom will the Saudis turn to. Maybe they will ask the US, but the US will never give nukes to Saudi, at best they will place their own nukes there, under US control. But never under Saudi control.
Or maybe the Saudis just buy some from Russia as well. Or from Pakistan.

But it might also lead to some terrorist groups acquiring nukes. And if this happens, then the world will be in a worse place than after 9/11.
"But it might also lead to some terrorist groups acquiring nukes. And if this happens, then the world will be in a worse place than after 9/11."

That would be an understatement, a single nuke can destroy a whole city it would be one scary world to live in
 

Trunx81

Gold Member
No one on here knows, and frankly nor does anyone.

For the experts at least, a lot of that is because any prediction would include a lot hypotheticals.

So no, you aren't some lone galaxy brain.
Not to think about consequences would be negligent.

It’s not about knowing. It’s about making a hypothesis, taking in mind what we know about our world and the balances of power.

If we consider looking back in history (as we always should), we see that there were always plans in place for after winning a war.
 
I have no idea how this war ends, let alone what the world looks like 3-5 years after it does. But I do think nukes aren't in the picture outside of the possibility that foreign armies were to somehow roll into Moscow before surrender and plant the EU flag in the Red Square, a fantasy that isn't worth entertaining.

There are two main examples from history I can think of: balkanization as per Yugoslavia in the early 90s and complete decimation as per Germany in the 40s. You might say that Russia has already had its 40s Germany moment at the end of the Cold War, when Russia went into a modern dark age. The blame for this fell somewhere between the communists of the USSR and the West that the communists were long-staring at. Nevertheless when Russia was rebuilt in 1991 it was rebuilt in the West's image - as a capitalist oligarchy, except it held the same post-Cold War grudges. Germany, the last bastion of the iron curtain, extended an olive branch to Russia and tried tying up the Russian economy in the global economy so much that the economies would be so entwined that if Russia were to pull any string out of line it would hurt itself as much as, and hopefully more, than it would hurt the other economies in the neo-liberal ball of twine.

So for balkanization to happen, there needs to be an anti-regime tinderbox sentiment in Russia that could spark a civil war. And for capitulation the West needs to be as literally independent from Russia's economy as Russia believes its economy figuratively is from the West's.

Whatever happens there'll probably be a treaty of some kind written up in a few years with Ukraine and Russia both signatories, and the current boiling pot simmers back to the uneasy heat of 2014.
 

Tams

Member
Not to think about consequences would be negligent.

It’s not about knowing. It’s about making a hypothesis, taking in mind what we know about our world and the balances of power.

If we consider looking back in history (as we always should), we see that there were always plans in place for after winning a war.

We're just people talking shit on a forum.

If you really think that our leaders and governments (at the very least armies of civil servants have slaved over this before it even happened) haven't considered all the potential outcomes, then you're too far down the looney hole.
 

Trunx81

Gold Member
We're just people talking shit on a forum.

If you really think that our leaders and governments (at the very least armies of civil servants have slaved over this before it even happened) haven't considered all the potential outcomes, then you're too far down the looney hole.
What is it with you and only being able to answer in an aggressive tone?
If you don’t want to discuss possible outcomes, then don’t.

Me for my part find it fascinating to see history been made right in front of our eyes.

History can give us advice about things to come. The future of our children is build right now.
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
All I hope for when this is over is for Russia to fall into an internal civil war with each separatist region fighting for independence, I want all their cities to burn, their people to suffer hardships and for the whole damn lot to fall back to the fucking stoneage where they belong and maybe from the ashes they can grow a decent civilization and join the western world and stop being cunts but until then they all need to suffer and suffer hard
 
Just read this in a comment on Steam and wanted to share lol:
Two residents of Odessa met... And one said to the other:

"So what's the situation, what's the word?"
"Well, they say there's a war."
"What war?"
"Russia is at war with NATO!"
"Really?"
"Yes, yes, there is a war. Russia is at war with NATO."
"And what?"
"So what... 70,000 Russian soldiers have fallen, almost all the missiles have been used up, a lot of equipment is broken, blown up. That's the situation."
"What about NATO?"
"What about NATO? NATO has not arrived yet."
 

Tams

Member
What is it with you and only being able to answer in an aggressive tone?
If you don’t want to discuss possible outcomes, then don’t.

Me for my part find it fascinating to see history been made right in front of our eyes.

History can give us advice about things to come. The future of our children is build right now.

Because I don't like your over-dramatism.

Now, back on topic, do you have anything interesting to contribute, or are you just going to whine about stuff that you don't seem to even try to do anything about?
 

Trunx81

Gold Member
Because I don't like your over-dramatism.

Now, back on topic, do you have anything interesting to contribute, or are you just going to whine about stuff that you don't seem to even try to do anything about?
Ok you’re just trolling. Good to know, makes it easier to ignore you.
 

Tams

Member
Ok you’re just trolling. Good to know, makes it easier to ignore you.

Nah mate. You're being all emotional.

People in power (and not) have thought of all the questions you have asked. We haven't bothered asking them here as no one knows the answers, so it simply isn't worth time and effort, even for just passing time in this thread.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
Do you really think it’s that implausible? I ask because I’m willing to give anything Robert Scheer has on his site some level of attention.
It's not more implausible than the motivations and source of the Biolabs rumour. It's like Biolabs 2. Although as a screenplay it does read as though it has been lifted from 80s morning cartoons...from their staging ground at their secret lair on the Moon...
 

Russia may have lost an entire elite brigade near a Donetsk coal-mining town​


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politico.eu/articl...

Oh No GIF
 

Lasha

Member
So we let the Russians move troops from withing the EU to the front. Why isn't Köningsberg completely sealed from the outside world by now. I mean, it's existence is a much bigger threat to us than the "NATO borders" ever were for Russia.

Russia has a narrow strip of international water and airspace to allow transport of goods and services. Land transport is limited to civilian goods and transport. Blockading Kaliningrad completely would be a big provocation. Moving military resources from the enclave to Ukraine actually benefits Europe. Russia's ability to contest the Suwalki gap is diminished while the men and materials themselves are likely to be mulched in Ukraine anyways.
 


I believe this could be dumb, people could make a militia and attack Ruzzia from another front. I mode it does not happen, and hope the people from there have more balls than Ruzzians.
 


Since you are not against going to die for nothing, shut the fuck off and die a terrible death. (I was going to say a dog's dead, but no dog should die that way)
 

winjer

Gold Member

  • Russia to cut oil output by around 5% in March
  • Brent up 2.5% after news
  • Russia held no consultations on cuts - Novak
  • West has introduced price caps on Russian oil over Ukraine
  • Russia ran budget deficit of $25 billion in January
 

Tams

Member

“We can see very clearly that they’re poorly trained,” Tykhyi said. The Russian troops are from the 155th naval infantry brigade, comprised of newly mobilised soldiers. The novices, he said, often “gather in one pile of people” making them easier targets. “They don’t have any tactics. It’s as if they were told, you have this task, go and do it, but they were not told how to do it. So they just improvise.” - a senior lieutenant who goes by the call sign of Tykhyi
 

TwinB242

Member
Dailymail is reporting that the Kremlin ordered Wagner to pull out of Ukraine but I find that very doubtful. Has anyone seen that corroborated by any other news sources?
 
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Gp1

Member
Dailymail is reporting that the Kremlin ordered Wagner to pull out of Ukraine but I find that very doubtful. Has anyone seen that corroborated by any other news sources?

No way they are on the offensive without Wagner now.

Ukraine Situation Report: Russia’s Offensive Has Begun Says NATO Chief​

As Russia gets closer to capturing Bakhmut, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg says its long-awaited offensive in the east is underway.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...t-russias-offensive-has-begun-says-nato-chief
 
Dailymail is reporting that the Kremlin ordered Wagner to pull out of Ukraine but I find that very doubtful. Has anyone seen that corroborated by any other news sources?

it was exclusive to the Mirror: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/putin-withdraws-wagner-group-troops-29208002

the source is this guy: https://www.defenceiq.com/contributor/bruce-jones, it seems like a really big deal if it's true...Wagner were the tip of the offensive and now they're being replaced by mobniks?
 
Not sure how pulling troops out from the frontline helps Putin's position in Moscow. All the Wagners fighting and dying at the front are safely far away.
There is the risk that the prestige of taking Bakhmut, which has been elevated to a mythical importance over the months, by Wagner will give them so much prestige that people will ask for Prigozhin to be made commander of the whole war but with Putin's grip on the media this would seem to be easy to counter. Just say it was the Russian Army and outside Telegram group no one will know who did the actual fighting.
 

Cyberpunkd

Gold Member
The biggest issue, is that if the Russian system falls, it might lead to corrupt officials selling nukes in the black market.
You understand nuclear warheads is not something you can PayPal over? Or have it digitally delivered as a DLC code? You can be sure all the nuclear sites worldwide have dozens of satellites pointed at them 24/7.
 

Lasha

Member
You understand nuclear warheads is not something you can PayPal over? Or have it digitally delivered as a DLC code? You can be sure all the nuclear sites worldwide have dozens of satellites pointed at them 24/7.

Spread of radioactive material is the actual concern. Smaller tactical yield weapons could also go missing in a power vacuum.
 
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