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RTTP: Sonic the Hedgehog 1 2 3 K on Sega Genesis/Megadrive

Branduil

Member
In anticipation of the release of Sonic Mania next week, I've decided to replay the classic Genesis Sonics beforehand. I just finished replaying the original Sonic the Hedgehog, and... it's a pretty mixed bag tbh. I mean, the strength of the concept is apparent from the first zone, Green Hill(which is also easily the best designed level in the game). Building up speed and using it to gain access to new areas is a wonderful mechanic, and this first level just feels sort of like a physics playground at times. Unfortunately, the good times do not last, as we almost immediately enter an unfun stretch of bad level design.

DG2yrxUVwAA6u2V.jpg:large


I'm looking at you, Marble Zone. And fuck you and your stupid hitbox too, Caterkiller

Marble Zone is a terrible level, which forces Sonic into a stop-and-start style of gameplay which feels fairly unsuited for the gameplay mechanics, and there's no real reward for playing it well since there aren't too many shortcuts. Spring Yard is a lot better(I'm fond of those deep U pits), but it also has some awful segments of climbing endless, slowly moving platforms. And then there's Labyrinth Zone.


There's no getting around it, this level sucks. Sonic moves like molasses, which makes all the enemies and obstacles more annoying. And of course, there's the iconic drowning sequence which traumatized countless youths. Just a really bad level, and it's obvious Sonic Team learned from this since every future water level was much better designed and/or had ways to avoid being in the water all the time.

Star Light Zone is actually pretty good, easily the second-best level in the game after Green Hill. The loops and speedways are fun and there's a variety of paths. Only big negative are those bomb fuckers.

Scrap Brain Zone, I'll give it credit for having some actually challenging platforming, but it's also plagued by the same problem of forcing you to slow down completely. Also, Act 3 is just a palette-swapped Labyrinth Zone, are you kidding me?


The only good thing about this is that you can easily skip most of it. Fuck Labyrinth Zone.

The final boss is, well, really easy and not too exciting. It certainly can't compare to the epic final battles in the later games, in presentation or gameplay. Also, this game has the worst special stages, I have no idea how I tolerated them as a child.

Now, it's certainly not a bad game. It's quite a good platformer, and at times, when you can really take advantage of the Sonic physics, it really shines, and you can see the potential which was realized in the sequels. The graphics are beautiful, of course, and the music never fails to please. But as a Sonic game, the level design holds it back- it feels like they hadn't fully grappled with how to best design levels around Sonic's abilities, which isn't too surprising since it was the first game of its kind. The lack of quality of life features like the spin dash is also a bit annoying.

I actually think Sonic 1 for the Master System/Game Gear might be a better game overall. It lacks the physics of the more advanced Genesis version, but the level design feels sharper and more creative. And it's Labyrinth Zone is far shorter, which obviously makes it better. And it has a better ending, too.

Anyway, feel free to share your own opinions on these games, especially if you're also replaying them now. Next I'm going to replay Sonic 2, maybe as soon as tomorrow.
 

Spukc

always chasing the next thrill
What up with those screenshots?
Looks like all the color has been removed....
 

13ruce

Banned
Played em for the first time fully through a few weeks ago.

Amazing games i firstly always prefered the advance games but now nah those classic gsmes are masterpieces.

Can't wait for Mania next week and will play through it multiple times that day:p
 

Ferr986

Member
I'm like the only one that loved Labyrinth Zone I guess.

Your low points are strengths to me with Sonic 1. I mean, every stage is pretty different from the other, is not "all levels are about speed" but each it's different, that makes the game feel more varied.

Scrap Brain act 3 was unnecesary though. It's like Metropolis act 3 in Sonic 2, fuck those tho stages.

Same as how the spin dash feels pretty much a cheat more than a QoL (i like the compromise Sonic CD introduced, either fast rev but vulnerable or slower but rolling).
 

sibarraz

Banned
My favorite is CD. The bonus stage is the best for me and I actually like the labyrinth like scenarios, specially when you are able to trigger the time travel.

Btw, wtf with this trend of saying that Sonic was never good, did those anti nintendo commercials still hurt to this day?
 
What up with those screenshots?
Looks like all the color has been removed....

It's a scanline filter.

I'll stick to Sonic 1 for now, while that's what you're up to (to clarify, Sonic 2 is one of my favourite games of all time, I love Sonic 1, and 3&K is alright, but the only things I enjoy from the Sonic 3 half are Ice Cap Zone and the final Big Arm boss if you play without lock on).

Starlight Zone is my favourite zone by far, due to having my favourite Sonic music, and the fact that like GHZ, which is my second favourite, it takes advantage of what later becomes the strength of the games/what they're famous for in the sequels, so levels with branching paths that you can speed through once you know what you're doing.

I actually don't mind Labyrinth Zone to be honest. It's a nice change of pace, and it's still interesting enough to play. I was never a fan of the water levels in later games, especially Hydrocity from Sonic 3. The fact they repeated it for Scrap Brain Zone 3 was dumb though.

The only things I never enjoyed were the final boss, the special stages, Scrap Brain Zone 3 (if you don't just use the skip), and Spring Yard Zone had a couple of frustrating bits, although I liked it as a whole.

I never got that far on the MS version though. I think I got past Jungle Zone once, but I don't remember what was after if. The boss was always too difficult for me. I have it on the VC now, but I've not had time to replay it, to see if I can actually finish it.
 

Tizoc

Member
It helps to watch a speedrun of the games since they tend to show you the faster routes to complete some of teh stages.
I personally have a bigger appreciation for Sonic 1 as it feels like a traditional 16-bit platformer. Speedrunning feels more for those that have exceled in the game, I personally just take my time with the stages in Sonic 1.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
With Sonic 1 they were still trying to find their footing.
2 and 3K both have much better level design.
 

Branduil

Member
It's a scanline filter.

I'll stick to Sonic 1 for now, while that's what you're up to (to clarify, Sonic 2 is one of my favourite games of all time, I love Sonic 1, and 3&K is alright, but the only things I enjoy from the Sonic 3 half are Ice Cap Zone and the final Big Arm boss if you play without lock on).

Starlight Zone is my favourite zone by far, due to having my favourite Sonic music, and the fact that like GHZ, which is my second favourite, it takes advantage of what later becomes the strength of the games/what they're famous for in the sequels, so levels with branching paths that you can speed through once you know what you're doing.

I actually don't mind Labyrinth Zone to be honest. It's a nice change of pace, and it's still interesting enough to play. I was never a fan of the water levels in later games, especially Hydrocity from Sonic 3. The fact they repeated it for Scrap Brain Zone 3 was dumb though.

The only things I never enjoyed were the final boss, the special stages, Scrap Brain Zone 3 (if you don't just use the skip), and Spring Yard Zone had a couple of frustrating bits, although I liked it as a whole.

I never got that far on the MS version though. I think I got past Jungle Zone once, but I don't remember what was after if. The boss was always too difficult for me. I have it on the VC now, but I've not had time to replay it, to see if I can actually finish it.
What's your complaint with Hydrocity Zone? I enjoyed it far more than Labyrinth Zone, especially since there are paths that stay mostly above water. I also appreciate the existence of the water shield in making air bubbles less of a priority.
 

nbnt

is responsible for the well-being of this island.
I don't agree at all that Sonic 1 on the MS is better, it's not even close. But, I do think Sonic 1 is the worst out of the tetralogy.

Sonic 3&K is obviously the best one, but it's not all perfect, that one also has some dud and frustrating parts.

Also, those screenshots look terrible, I'm all for scanlines but use a better shader or disable bilinear filtering or whatever is making it so blurry.
 
I'm like the only one that loved Labyrinth Zone I guess.

Your low points are strengths to me with Sonic 1. I mean, every stage is pretty different from the other, is not "all levels are about speed" but each it's different, that makes the game feel more varied.

Scrap Brain act 3 was unnecesary though. It's like Metropolis act 3 in Sonic 2, fuck those tho stages.

Same as how the spin dash feels pretty much a cheat more than a QoL (i like the compromise Sonic CD introduced, either fast rev but vulnerable or slower but rolling).

Nope! You are not the only one. I love the platform-y bits of Sonic 1. Marble Zone, too. Love it.

sibarraz said:
Btw, wtf with this trend of saying that Sonic was never good, did those anti nintendo commercials still hurt to this day?

Some are still fighting the console wars to this very day. It's a little sad. But also kind of comforting in a way.
 

Arkeband

Banned
What's your complaint with Hydrocity Zone? I enjoyed it far more than Labyrinth Zone, especially since there are paths that stay mostly above water. I also appreciate the existence of the water shield in making air bubbles less of a priority.

Uh I think you mean High Drossity Zone
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
It's always weird to me when I see people complain that they just can't run & roll through every level in Sonic 1. There's some pretty deliberate design/pacing choices in play: the odd numbered zones have lots of loops and ramps to highlight Sonic's unique style of play, while the even numbered zones are structured much more like traditional platformers of the day. And Sonic can do both of those things just fine. While I can understand that the underwater levels aren't everyone's cup of tea, the variety is nice.

20 years ago I would've said S3&K was my favorite entry in the series, but these days, I actually prefer Sonic 1. It feels less padded, and the peaks and valleys in the difficulty curve hold my attention better.
 
It's always weird to me when I see people complain that they just can't run & roll through every level in Sonic 1. There's some pretty deliberate design/pacing choices in play: the odd numbered zones have lots of loops and ramps to highlight Sonic's unique style of play, while the even numbered zones are structured much more like traditional platformers of the day. And Sonic can do both of those things just fine. While I can understand that the underwater levels aren't everyone's cup of tea, the variety is nice.

20 years ago I would've said S3&K was my favorite entry in the series, but these days, I actually prefer Sonic 1. It feels less padded, and the peaks and valleys in the difficulty curve hold my attention better.

Totally agreed. In 1994, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that Sonic 3 & Knuckles was my favorite Sonic game. I mean, of course it was. It was the longest, it had multiple characters, an "epic" feel, the whole lock-on feature, 14 special stages, etc. Some 23 years later, my order of preferences has flipped completely.
 

Ferr986

Member
What's your complaint with Hydrocity Zone? I enjoyed it far more than Labyrinth Zone, especially since there are paths that stay mostly above water. I also appreciate the existence of the water shield in making air bubbles less of a priority.

My problem with Hydrocity is that it's barely a water level, especially Act 2 where the stage is almost always running through those slopes. Incredible music though.

But yeah if you don't like water level then i can see why Hydrocity is good.

Did Howard Drossin compose that one?

No. Drossin barely worked on S3&K, only did a couple of tunes for S&K. A lot of S3&K music was left uncredited, if I'm not mistaken, just as Sega Sound Team.
 

bionic77

Member
There is something about the design of Sonic that really appeals to kids.

For whatever reason the Sonic games have not aged well for me, but my son, who is 6, is a big fan of Sonic having never watched the cartoon or even watched me play the game. He got that from watching an older kid play some garbage port on an iPad.

I hope Sega nails this game and can start making some new Sega fans.
 

Berordn

Member
Hydrocity just pretends to be a water level when it's actually CPZ take 2. The general design is the same where the upper, faster routes are designed to spend as little time in the water as possible. It's filled with ramps working as tube expies and the weird hand things in place of the classic boosters.

Personally I think this makes it better overall, but it sets expectations for other water levels that aren't trying to emulate that design.
 
What's your complaint with Hydrocity Zone? I enjoyed it far more than Labyrinth Zone, especially since there are paths that stay mostly above water. I also appreciate the existence of the water shield in making air bubbles less of a priority.

I dunno. I think I liked the fact that it Labyrinth Zone was a zone entirely built around the underwater sections, whereas Hydrocity was a mix of both, so it wasn't a good water level, and it wasn't a good normal level. It's the same problem I have with Launch Base Zone Act 2 as well.
 
There is something about the design of Sonic that really appeals to kids.

For whatever reason the Sonic games have not aged well for me, but my son, who is 6, is a big fan of Sonic having never watched the cartoon or even watched me play the game. He got that from watching an older kid play some garbage port on an iPad.

I hope Sega nails this game and can start making some new Sega fans.

Probably the combination of an easy to grasp control scheme, relatively forgiving difficulty, cute, Sanrio-style characters, and lots of whiz-bang rollercoaster-like moments.
 

bionic77

Member
Probably the combination of an easy to grasp control scheme, relatively forgiving difficulty, cute, Sanrio-style characters, and lots of whiz-bang rollercoaster-like moments.
Its the art style of the games.

Something about Sonic is still very appealing to kids.

I wish Sega was in a better state to take advantage of this.
 
Its the art style of the games.

Something about Sonic is still very appealing to kids.

I wish Sega was in a better state to take advantage of this.


I think Sonic is still popular with kids. None of my little nephews or nieces care all that much about it, but I do see tons of Sonic toys in Toys R Us whenever we go in there to browse.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Sonic 1 and CD have a lot of cheap deaths and bad level design. I can forgive Sonic 1 but I've never been able to love CD.

2 is a lot better, probably the peak of the series. 3/3&K gets a bit too busy with their level design.
 

Ferr986

Member
Sonic 1 and CD have a lot of cheap deaths and bad level design. I can forgive Sonic 1 but I've never been able to love CD.

2 is a lot better, probably the peak of the series. 3/3&K gets a bit too busy with their level design.

CD cheap deaths? CD is by far the easiest of the Mega Drive games. It's a cakewalk until the last stage.

I don't even think it has any bottomless pits until Metallic Madness act 3, for example.
 

bionic77

Member
I think Sonic is still popular with kids. None of my little nephews or nieces care all that much about it, but I do see tons of Sonic toys in Toys R Us whenever we go in there to browse.
I agree the character is extremely popular with the kids.

What I meant was that I wish Sega was in a better state to make more good Sonic characters and use that leverage to make more kick ass Sega type games.

Fuck. I miss the old days when Sega was a powerhouse. :(
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Can we talk for a minute about how the function of rings in Sonic is extremely unusual, both in 1991 and even today? It's the one thing about the game on a mechanical level that sticks out to me more than anything else now that I've got almost three decades of game-playing experience under my belt. I'm not a historian of platformers by any means, mind you, but I can't think of a single game among Sonic's peers with a "health" system that functioned even remotely similarly. Usually, that sort of stuff worked in one of the following ways:

- get hit once and you're dead (most games)
- get hit and you lose your power-up; get hit again and you're dead (e.g. Mario)
- various enemies reduce varying amounts from your life bar until you're dead (e.g. Mega Man)

But Sonic? As long as you can hang onto that one last ring, you're basically free to proceed unharmed. If you're carrying lots of rings when you get hit, then it's easier to recollect a few in the ensuing scramble. If you only have 1 or 2 rings, though, then they might slip through the cracks before you can get them. So, there's a little bit of a benefit to playing more consistently and amassing 20+ rings at a time, but the one-ring-and-you're-safe mechanic means that you're rarely in danger of a single mistake costing you a life. It isn't until the last 2 zones that instant-death traps like bottomless pits crop up, and even then, most routes in the levels bypass those hazards completely.

I think there's a pretty obvious reason why the designers came up with with that mechanic: it lets the player run head-first into danger without too much fear that they'll lose outright to something that they can't react to properly. You can ♪ roll around at the speed of sound ♫, and even if you're unfortunate enough to careen into a lava pit as a result, you can often just dust yourself off and try again.

That's why I often think that common complaints of "poor level design" in which the high-speed gameplay clashes with "cheap-shot hazards that you can't see coming" are not only somewhat exaggerated, but often irrelevant in the first place. The entire "health" system of the game is a failsafe against much of that entire concept.

The rewards you get from acquiring lots of rings at once without losing them--1UPs and access to special stages--are incentives to either play super carefully or to just replay the game enough so that you get to the point where you can zip through known pathways unimpeded. And that's fine.

Sometimes I think players have such a knee-jerk reaction to the negative stimulus of getting hit that they don't really consider the actual consequences or risk/reward in play.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
CD cheap deaths? CD is by far the easiest of the Mega Drive games. It's a cakewalk until the last stage.

I don't even think it has any bottomless pits until Metallic Madness act 3, for example.

I should have divided that thought better.

Sonic 1 = Cheap deaths and bad level design.
Sonic CD = The worst, ugliest, and most confusing level design imaginable.
 
I agree the character is extremely popular with the kids.

What I meant was that I wish Sega was in a better state to make more good Sonic characters and use that leverage to make more kick ass Sega type games.

Fuck. I miss the old days when Sega was a powerhouse. :(

You are definitely not alone. I miss the weird, experimental Sega.
 

jobrro

Member
Did this this week too. Final level of Sonic 1 was very hazard heavy.

Also was kinda annoyed how you have zero rings from the outset for the final boss in both Sonic 1 and 2.

And one of the Super Emerald stages was a super annoying until I knew pattern.

Don't want to go overboard and burnout before Mania so will just stop at 1 2 3 & K. Have played CD and 4 previously.
 
For whatever reason the Sonic games have not aged well for me, but my son, who is 6, is a big fan of Sonic having never watched the cartoon or even watched me play the game. He got that from watching an older kid play some garbage port on an iPad.

"Garbage port"? You're not referring to Taxman's (the guy who's working on Sonic Mania lol) remake, are you? That's literally the definitive version of the game. The only fault with it is that it's not on proper game consoles (or PC).
 
I've been doing the same thing. Got through 1, 2, CD, 3&K, and SADX. Gonna finish up with SA2 over the weekend probably. Definitely noticed the jank here and there, but I've had fun and certainly enjoyed hearing the soundtracks again.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I should have divided that thought better.

Sonic 1 = Cheap deaths and bad level design.
Sonic CD = The worst, ugliest, and most confusing level design imaginable.

They're my two favorite Sonic games. :V To this day I have no idea why CD is as divisive as it is.

The only thing that really rubs me the wrong way about CD is that the final zone is so anticlimactic; that game peaks at the Metal Sonic race and then just goes through the motions afterward.
 

Branduil

Member
Can we talk for a minute about how the function of rings in Sonic is extremely unusual, both in 1991 and even today? It's the one thing about the game on a mechanical level that sticks out to me more than anything else now that I've got almost three decades of game-playing experience under my belt. I'm not a historian of platformers by any means, mind you, but I can't think of a single game among Sonic's peers with a "health" system that functioned even remotely similarly. Usually, that sort of stuff worked in one of the following ways:

- get hit once and you're dead (most games)
- get hit and you lose your power-up; get hit again and you're dead (e.g. Mario)
- various enemies reduce varying amounts from your life bar until you're dead (e.g. Mega Man)

But Sonic? As long as you can hang onto that one last ring, you're basically free to proceed unharmed. If you're carrying lots of rings when you get hit, then it's easier to recollect a few in the ensuing scramble. If you only have 1 or 2 rings, though, then they might slip through the cracks before you can get them. So, there's a little bit of a benefit to playing more consistently and amassing 20+ rings at a time, but the one-ring-and-you're-safe mechanic means that you're rarely in danger of a single mistake costing you a life. It isn't until the last 2 zones that instant-death traps like bottomless pits crop up, and even then, most routes in the levels bypass those hazards completely.

I think there's a pretty obvious reason why the designers came up with with that mechanic: it lets the player run head-first into danger without too much fear that they'll lose outright to something that they can't react to properly. You can ♪ roll around at the speed of sound ♫, and even if you're unfortunate enough to careen into a lava pit as a result, you can often just dust yourself off and try again.

That's why I often think that common complaints of "poor level design" in which the high-speed gameplay clashes with "cheap-shot hazards that you can't see coming" are not only somewhat exaggerated, but often irrelevant in the first place. The entire "health" system of the game is a failsafe against much of that entire concept.

The rewards you get from acquiring lots of rings at once without losing them--1UPs and access to special stages--are incentives to either play super carefully or to just replay the game enough so that you get to the point where you can zip through known pathways unimpeded. And that's fine.

Sometimes I think players have such a knee-jerk reaction to the negative stimulus of getting hit that they don't really consider the actual consequences or risk/reward in play.

Oh yeah, the ring design is ingenius, one of the smartest things they came up with in designing it. Sonic 1 MS/GG doesn't have this, by the way- it functions more like a Mario power-up, one hit and you lose your rings permanently. They corrected this in Sonic 2 MS/GG, although no matter how many rings you have, only one drops. Probably because the system couldn't handle a dozen rings dropping. And it doesn't matter too much anyway since that game is still full of tons of cheap deaths and inescapable spike pits. Fuck Sonic 2 MS/GG.
 
I think there's a pretty obvious reason why the designers came up with with that mechanic: it lets the player run head-first into danger without too much fear that they'll lose outright to something that they can't react to properly. You can ♪ roll around at the speed of sound ♫, and even if you're unfortunate enough to careen into a lava pit as a result, you can often just dust yourself off and try again.

That's exactly it. They didn't want to discourage the player from going too fast. The ring mechanic makes it so that you can make mistakes and not have to pay too high a price, outside of losing your horde of rings and losing your momentum.

It's the reason why Bubsy is a bad game even though it's very similar. It tries to emulate Sonic's speedy gameplay, but the one-hit deaths force you to play through the game very carefully. That approach is the complete opposite of what the designers of Sonic intended. They want you to play more relaxed and more carelessly. They encourage you to make mistakes. Also, Bubsy doesn't give the player a way to defend themselves while going at higher speeds like you do with Sonic's spin dash.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
They're my two favorite Sonic games. :V To this day I have no idea why CD is as divisive as it is.

The only thing that really rubs me the wrong way about CD is that the final zone is so anticlimactic; that game peaks at the Metal Sonic race and then just goes through the motions afterward.

Despite my complaints Sonic 1 is my second favorite game in the series. It's still fun to play and has a nice difficulty curve.

Sonic 2>Sonic 1>Sonic 3 (by itself)>Sonic 3&K>Sonic CD.

I dislike CD so much I've considered putting 4 ahead of it.
 

Kyzon

Member
I'm like the only one that loved Labyrinth Zone I guess.

Your low points are strengths to me with Sonic 1. I mean, every stage is pretty different from the other, is not "all levels are about speed" but each it's different, that makes the game feel more varied.

Scrap Brain act 3 was unnecesary though. It's like Metropolis act 3 in Sonic 2, fuck those tho stages.

Same as how the spin dash feels pretty much a cheat more than a QoL (i like the compromise Sonic CD introduced, either fast rev but vulnerable or slower but rolling).

Labyrinth is my second favorite in the first game followed by Star Light. Best music too
 

J@hranimo

Banned
I guess I wasn't the only one that went on a Nostalgia Trip leading to Mania.

Replayed Sonic 1 twice because I died in Scrap Brain Act 3. Fuck all the water levels in that game, hate hate hate them with a passion. Mind you, I didn't play Taxman's version of Sonic 1 due to it crashing on my phone everytime I tried to start the game. I played the Genesis Collection version on Steam.

What the game did teach me the most compared to the other games is that truly level knowledge translates to rewarding speed with good play. Spring Yard and Starlight Zones both exemplify these design mentalities.

Marble Zone I grew to appreciate and Scrap Brain and learned to respect again cause it's hard D:

It's overall still very solid and better than Sonic 2 and CD in some places. S3&K is still king.
 
Does anybody else still play these games on the original Genesis carts? I always keep a Genesis hooked up to a nice old CRT. Was just playing a little bit of Ristar yesterday.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Does anybody else still play these games on the original Genesis carts? I always keep a Genesis hooked up to a nice old CRT. Was just playing a little bit of Ristar yesterday.

I've been playing a handful of romhacks on a flash cart lately.

S1Amy_Rev1.6.png


You wouldn't expect a character without a spin attack to work in this game, but it's actually pretty solid! :eek:

I'm planning to marathon vanilla 1-3K right before Mania drops.
 
I've been playing a handful of romhacks on a flash cart lately.

S1Amy_Rev1.6.png


You wouldn't expect a character without a spin attack to work in this game, but it's actually pretty solid! :eek:

I'm planning to marathon vanilla 1-3K right before Mania drops.

I seem to recall one that had Princess Sally from the old Sonic cartoon. I forget how she attacked, but the game still played really well (if a little bit differently).
 
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