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[onQ123]

As smart as he is he is speaking from a place that's not letting him see the big picture.



Sony have a big advantage when it come to bringing content to PSVR2 & it's so simple PS5 games that do double duty as PSVR games.

Flood the PS5 with games that have VR features then people will buy PSVR2 as a display for playing their PS5 games.


VR devs wouldn't look at the amount of PSVR2s out here they will look at the PS5 numbers make the game playable with & without PSVR2 & keep it moving.





Making Spider-Man 2 fully playable in VR would move plenty of PSVR2s but Spider-Man 2 wouldn't live or die based on the sales of PSVR2.

 

[Danknugz]

The problem is that Sony probably has to charge $600 due to the lenses/screens and eye tracking tech, not sure what the BOM is but theyre probably taking a loss. Carmack is speaking more from the perspective of mass adoption however and I don't think that's Sony's intention with PSVR2, seems they were more focused on making the device compelling enough to make people want to buy a PS5. That might also explain why there's no native PC / steam support.

 

[midnightAI]

Impressive in terms to impact and importance to VR,

But isn't that a moving target? PS5's wont stay at 32 million sold

Even at 5% of PS5's sold that's 1 million VR headsets a year (assuming Sony ship/sell 20 million PS5's per year moving forward and not including how many they will sell at launch)

Sony would be happy with that I'm sure

 

[Freeman76]

I doubt sonygaf will like his post but its true.

The price point is hefty but I can afford that without any issues, what I cant stomach is how in '23 they havent made the 30+ games I bought on their first VR playable on this one. They can fuck right off with that shit.

 

[midnightAI]

I doubt sonygaf will like his post but its true.

The price point is hefty but I can afford that without any issues, what I cant stomach is how in '23 they havent made the 30+ games I bought on their first VR playable on this one. They can fuck right off with that shit.

Hassle the developers then and ask them to provide updates?

 

[ABnormal]

The Quest 3 is literally going to be in the middle, and it has two companies targeting to be better than it HTC, and TCL, at around the same price range.

Quest 2 when it first launched already sold you don't have to choose either side, it's only very outdated now because it's heading into it's 3rd year. Quest 3, HTC, and TCl's affordable devices are going to have many specs of the several $550-700 headsets as well as some of the features without going that high.

Yes, they will improve over the prevous ones, obviously, but all the standalone units cannot espect to have serious horsepower capable to run complex games, even now - and even less wihout eye tracking and foveated rendering). Also, it will take time to grow an installed base of the new standalone headsets. Even more than the first time because they are looked for mostly by casual gamers interested in motion gaming, and those gamers don't pay much importance on graphics. That will force developers to continue to develop games around standalone VR specs, like the last years. Which is a shame. Now with PSVR 2, at least for some years, proper high end games will be developed, both from Sony and so exclusive, but also from those multiplatform developers who will try to have a market into PSVR 2 and so they will develop a proper high end version of their games. That will benefit PC VR AS WELL. PSVR 2, even in the lowest case, will sell some million of units, more than enough to justify the investments on high end VR version of games, which will go out on PC also. Without PSVR 2, that would never happen: nobody spends to develop for Valve, Vario, Rift S. Pimax. They have great potential, but the games are developed around Quest 2.
That's the reason of some saying that PSVR 2 will bring back again high end VR. That's a given. We have simply to see how many and for how long. But, at the very least, some years of selected big games are guarranteed.
And for VR, that's already more than enough to experience the magic.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

success is relative. it will be dictated by expectations.

 

[R6Rider]

Sony would be happy with that I'm sure

On top of the fact than VR users buy more games on average.

 

[Thirty7ven]

This dude doesn’t know shit about markets, or gaming really. He just knows 1010101.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

This dude doesn’t know shit about markets, or gaming really. He just knows math.

Pretty much.

I don’t know what he means by “very expensive”

A $400 oculus headset is also expensive, for a pretty terrible experience

People will pay a premium for a better product, and enthusiasts will matter a lot more for a highly engaged audience that buys lots of software

 

[gundalf]

I'm telling this people already on several forums/social media but PSVR is not relevant in the VR Space, yes it is an VR Device but it only exists and acts inside the PlayStation bubble.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Guys a genius....we will see if he is right

 

[Neo_game]

Well, yeah. It requires a 500-dollar console and a 500+ dollar VR set.

That's a lot of money for a gimmick experience.

VR is not a gimmick. It need games to justify it but I guess everyone knows it is going to be a niche market.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I'm telling this people already on several forums/social media but PSVR is not relevant in the VR Space, yes it is an VR Device but it only exists and acts inside the PlayStation bubble.

Not relevant? That’s absolute nonsense

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Just stop being poor you fucking losers

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

Well, yeah. It requires a 500-dollar console and a 500+ dollar VR set.

That's a lot of money for a gimmick experience.

(totally joking)

 

[Danknugz]

Not relevant? That’s absolute nonsense

Im guessing because there's no PC / steam support

 

[hinch7]

Kinda obvious but yeah.. needs to drop to $200-300 for VR to be viable for the mass market. $500 on top of a $500 console is a lot for a lot of people. And its not like there are loads of fully fledged games that are VR exclusive like; Half Life Alyx, to really jusitfy the expense and effort it takes to set up and use VR to play games.

Maybe when we get super light weight and wireless VR headsets at a much lower price points it takes off; like sub $200. As of now its still a big, expensive and unweildy chunk of plastic attached to your head.. with a small fraction of games available that can mostly be played elsewhere without the discomfort of moving around like a lunatic to play some video games or watch/interact with.

 

[midnightAI]

Pretty much.

I don’t know what he means by “very expensive”

A $400 oculus headset is also expensive, for a pretty terrible experience

People will pay a premium for a better product, and enthusiasts will matter a lot more for a highly engaged audience that buys lots of software

I do think thats his point though, all headsets are too expensive to be mass market.

But to be mass market it isnt just price, it should be light (very light), as easy to put on as sunglasses, as pocketable as sunglasses, large battery life and powerful and we are a very long way from that yet. But that's ok though, VR doesnt need to be mass market to be successful, we are still in the early years of VR like it or not.

 

[midnightAI]

I'm telling this people already on several forums/social media but PSVR is not relevant in the VR Space, yes it is an VR Device but it only exists and acts inside the PlayStation bubble.

Did you get laughed at there also?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I do think thats his point though, all headsets are too expensive to be mass market.

But to be mass market it isnt just price, it should be light (very light), as easy to put on as sunglasses, as pocketable as sunglasses, large battery life and powerful and we are a very long way from that yet. But that's ok though, VR doesnt need to be mass market to be successful, we are still in the early years of VR like it or not.

That’s the thing though, he said “not very successful”. Success is relative.

VR has a ways to go before it’s mass market but PSVR2 gets us closer to that goal

 

[midnightAI]

That’s the thing though, he said “not very successful”. Success is relative.

VR has a ways to go before it’s mass market but PSVR2 gets us closer to that goal

Agreed, but I do think that software is the key to it, not out of the gate (although its a good start), but software could very well be the main differentiator for Sony, get that right and the attach rate will be higher

 

[Crayon]

The problem is that Sony probably has to charge $600

$550.

 

[Danknugz]

$550.

my bad brother

 

[cyberheater]

That's a lot of money for a gimmick experience.

It's a pity you feel like that.
Good VR beats flat screen gaming hands down. No comparison. I'm hoping PSVR2 will enable more people who haven't experienced high quality VR to enjoy an amazing experience.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I don't think Carmack is far off, personally. It's a lot of money for something that is still kind of niche.

Has the interest in VR grown? Definitely. Lord knows PSVR helped. But I still think it's too small to really become a driving force. Some day it could become extremely popular, but I don't think we're there yet. Nor do I know when that time will happen.

 

[sono]

Need to see demo stations in retail stores to bring in new punters. Who will pay that much when console was cheaper otherwise

 

[poppabk]

Valve Index?

Quest 2?

 

[Three]

Typical for people to ignore the idea he had and concentrating on the first few words




Then he probably had a bunch of nutjobs piling on because of the article and said this



Seems plausible but I will say this. The PSVR2 will have more people who buy it for games and so the games market on it would be better. The Quest 2 standalone has a larger casual crowd and the attach rate on the PSVR1 is higher than it by more than double.

 

[fart town usa]

It's a luxury device. Of course it's not going to sell hotcakes.

It's pretty damn baller of Sony to put so much effort into something that potentially won't make much of a difference in terms of sales.

...watch Microsoft try to acquire Meta to get in the VR game

(it's a joke, relax)

 

[reinking]

Can someone tell me what Sony will see as successful? I keep seeing a lot of people saying it will not be successful but by what criteria? 5+ million units sold since we know PSVR sold over that? 2+ billion in sales since with know PSVR reached that? I am just curious what success or failure is going to look like.

 

[midnightAI]

 

[DenchDeckard]

If it sells less than quest 2 surely its DOA? What did quest 2 sell in its first year?

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Positive PSVR2/GT7 news that is making a splash today.

Release the counter munitions!

Saw the thread title and IMMEDIATELY knew it was Eddie-Griffin

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/omdi...f-vr-sales-90-of-vr-revenue-is-games.1645829/

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/dpvr-reveals-new-vr-headset-dpvr-e4-targeting-pc-gamers-549-499-early-bird-preorders-nov-30th-4k-display-120hz-116°-fov-launches-jan-15.1646547/

This isn't looking good for PSVR2 at all. This is also the companies first non-enterprise/B2B headset aiming for consumers, and so far they seem to have gotten everything right with more yet to come.

....It's over.

bruh....lol

Typical for people to ignore the idea he had and concentrating on the first few words




Then he probably had a bunch of nutjobs piling on because of the article and said this



Seems plausible but I will say this. The PSVR2 will have more people who buy it for games and so the games market on it would be better. The Quest 2 standalone has a larger casual crowd and the attach rate on the PSVR1 is higher than it by more than double.

Agreed.

 

[midnightAI]

If it sells less than quest 2 surely its DOA? What did quest 2 sell in its first year?

Huh?

Quest 2 has sold over 15 million units in 2.5 years

 

[chromatic9]

Sure

Ultimately it's a well made and expensive peripheral for their PS5 console owners. What defines success, Quest could outsell it 3x and both could be considered failures or not that successful. VR will keep slowly going along for many years yet until the tech and price merge to something very compelling.

All Sony is doing is boosting it with some slick design and implementation, perhaps lacking in the VR space until now. It's a long road and Carmack sounds defensive or dismissive when really he should pleased some nice and relatively affordable hardware and top software like GT7 will usable very soon for the general public and introducing some people to a good VR experience whether it's a few million or ten million who gives a fuck. It's taken years of design and refinement to get to this stage with much more to come.

 

[RoadHazard]

I don't understand why a smaller geographic distribution would be better. Why does it matter how spread out the sold units are? It's not like Sony doesn't already have a big presence with marketing, PS Store, distribution, etc, in all markets they're gonna sell the PSVR2.

 

[poppabk]

Sure

Ultimately it's a well made and expensive peripheral for their PS5 console owners. What defines success, Quest could outsell it 3x and both could be considered failures or not that successful. VR will keep slowly going along for many years yet until the tech and price merge to something very compelling.

All Sony is doing is boosting it with some slick design and implementation, perhaps lacking in the VR space until now. It's a long road and Carmack sounds defensive or dismissive when really he should pleased some nice and relatively affordable hardware and top software like GT7 will usable very soon for the general public and introducing some people to a good VR experience whether it's a few million or ten million who gives a fuck. It's taken years of design and refinement to get to this stage with much more to come.

He is obviously personally invested in the future of VR as a gaming medium and sees low cost headsets as the way forward. It's probably not a coincidence that he left Meta shortly after the quest price increase and the $1500 quest pro release.

 

[ABnormal]

Kinda obvious but yeah.. needs to drop to $200-300 for VR to be viable for the mass market. $500 on top of a $500 console is a lot for a lot of people. And its not like there are loads of fully fledged games that are VR exclusive like; Half Life Alyx, to really jusitfy the expense and effort it takes to set up and use VR to play games.

Maybe when we get super light weight and wireless VR headsets at a much lower price points it takes off; like sub $200. As of now its still a big, expensive and unweildy chunk of plastic attached to your head.. with a small fraction of games available that can mostly be played elsewhere without the discomfort of moving around like a lunatic to play some video games or watch/interact with.

Congratulations for putting all the existing (wrong) commonplaces on VR into one single post. You forgot the cable in 2023.

While some of those points have obviously sense, and they will, the obstacles to mass adoption of VR are others, and mostly on motion sickness and consequent hindered movement game design and comfort for most people EVEN with limited motion. One those are resolved, the possiblities and crazy experiences that will become avaliable will inevitably become irrestible for gamers of now and even those who are not yet gamers.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Huh?

Quest 2 has sold over 15 million units in 2.5 years

And they lost 22 billion last year. Sounds crazy.

 

[midnightAI]

And they lost 22 billion last year. Sounds crazy.

Some of that will be due to heavy subsidisation of the Quest 2, that and their total failure with metaverse.

Sony would be ridiculously happy with 6 million sales a year (that probably won't happen though, more like 2 mill a year max which they'll still be very happy with)

 

[chromatic9]

He is obviously personally invested in the future of VR as a gaming medium and sees low cost headsets as the way forward. It's probably not a coincidence that he left Meta shortly after the quest price increase and the $1500 quest pro release

He has to be more patient and Sony and everyone else is well aware of how many PS5's are out there and the possible take up of extra VR hardware from their install base. The man says he's not impressed with 30 million consoles but he's barking up the wrong tree here.

It's an impressive and well implemented VR solution in this early time of VR for their own users, in a space that's suffered from in my view low to middling products and implementations. I shouldn't have to even say how expensive tech usually is early on and these new innovations and ideas will keeping getting made by various companies in VR and eventually merge into a cheaper more compelling product that's less trouble and effortless to use and Sony might never be the one to make that in 10-20 years time. Coming out right now with a low quality VR experience isn't going to fly, might do in 5 years for some company out there, I mean if so then get to it, John.

For me, right now I'm glad Sony has stepped up the quality instead of producing something average for $2-300. They can do more in later iterations. It's about having a nice experience to come back to and play for hours.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Typical for people to ignore the idea he had and concentrating on the first few words




Then he probably had a bunch of nutjobs piling on because of the article and said this



Seems plausible but I will say this. The PSVR2 will have more people who buy it for games and so the games market on it would be better. The Quest 2 standalone has a larger casual crowd and the attach rate on the PSVR1 is higher than it by more than double.

Yup

Crucially, Carmack is ignoring engagement.

PSVR2 sells to the hardcore. They buy more games.

A dedicated audience of 5M can be more profitable than an unengaged audience of 20M

I suspect Quest 2 is mostly gathering dust, and selling at a huge loss. So who cares if PSVR2 sells less hardware?

 

[JLB]

Of course. I guess Carmack is credible enough than even the trolls are hesitating to this thread.(yet)

 

[DryvBy]

The best thing is for no one to not buy it and see how well it sells.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Perhaps, but then people should do something else with their money or play other stuff.

I think…. that was exactly JC’s point

 

[mckmas8808]

As smart as he is he is speaking from a place that's not letting him see the big picture.



Sony have a big advantage when it come to bringing content to PSVR2 & it's so simple PS5 games that do double duty as PSVR games.

Flood the PS5 with games that have VR features then people will buy PSVR2 as a display for playing their PS5 games.


VR devs wouldn't look at the amount of PSVR2s out here they will look at the PS5 numbers make the game playable with & without PSVR2 & keep it moving.





Making Spider-Man 2 fully playable in VR would move plenty of PSVR2s but Spider-Man 2 wouldn't live or die based on the sales of PSVR2.

I simply DO NOT understand how a guy like Carmack does get this simple point. It's insane how people don't get this.

Does he not realize that these exist?

 

[mckmas8808]

Samsung VR, Quest 1, Quest 2, so 3.



Taxes? they explain it right in the article.

Granted, they don't add taxes for the Quest 2 for some reason.

That's my point. Why add taxes to only one product, when you're comparing the price of two things?

 

[ABnormal]

The best thing is for no one to not buy it and see how well it sells.

Why on the Earth should I worry about it selling 5 or 15 millions units? I'm a gamer, not a Sony investor, and since even at launch there will be games that will amaze me, and obviously more planned for years, I already know that I will have what I want for it.
What's the sense of basing the decision of buying or not on how mant units it will sell in the coming years? It's not that that's will change the games that are being developed. And surely I'm not thinking that PSVR 2 will have to last two generations. As the console, all I need for it is to last for the entire gen and some, with some meaningful games. Since the architecture, it will probably even back compatible with PS6, but as for PS6, at that time I will buy PSVR 3, if it will exist, to enjoy another next gen step of it.
PSVR 2 selling good or bad can only influence a potential PSVR3, but at least for this generation, we are pretty much covered. There's always a years long schedule, internally.

 

[hinch7]

Congratulations for putting all the existing (wrong) commonplaces on VR into one single post. You forgot the cable in 2023.

While some of those points have obviously sense, and they will, the obstacles to mass adoption of VR are others, and mostly on motion sickness and consequent hindered movement game design and comfort for most people EVEN with limited motion. One those are resolved, the possiblities and crazy experiences that will become avaliable will inevitably become irrestible for gamers of now and even those who are not yet gamers.

Nice sarc. But I'll bite. VR is still a fairly niche thing and is still at a price point that's not attractive to most consumers. While I agree VR is very immersive, its not for everyone.

Take 3DTV, games and cinema for example. And how intrusive people found it wearing polarized glasses to watch 3D content. Yeah watching films in 3D can be more immersive, it also it a pain to set up for everyone to watch. And you had to pay more for the luxury for that. Now ask people to spend a grand to experience VR or an extra $500 (or another console's worth).