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Oculus founder: "No existing or imminent VR hardware is good enough to go mainstream".

caffeware

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1980's is the decade VR will take off.
1990's is the decade VR will take off.
2000's is the decade VR will take off.
2010's is the decade VR will take off.

2020's is the decade VR will take off.
 

Blam

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It's sold 3 Million not 2. There is 21.9M PSVR software sales too but they may be inflating that with games that have VR support, not sure. The software attach rate for PSVR is actually pretty high.
I'm almost certain they'd call for psvr worlds and any bundled shit to be included in that attach rate.
 

GermanZepp

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Not even close. We'll have surpassed Ready Player One in about 10 years. And yes, I say surpassed.
Ready Player One boils down to the following: A visor that projects onto the retina with a human FoV and retinal resolution, haptic gloves, treadmills, haptic suits, photorealistic avatars and graphics.

Loles. The only thing missing here, are the edit: dozens of millions users playing together-
 
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DarthBuzzer

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Loles. The only thing missing here, are the millions of users playing together-
The OASIS, or a metaverse would likely be quite a bit further off, but the hardware is not nearly as far off as people think. And to be honest, the hardware matters more because all it takes is a really good VRMMORPG and it will feel OASIS-esque anyway.

Though I would expect an early version of the metaverse to be in existence within 10 years. Like VRChat, but much bigger and more featured, and it would bleed into real life as well with AR / MR.
 

Pagusas

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I've said this from the beigning and been harped on by the idiotic VR cult. Untlil the headset goes away, VR is DOA. It will never, EVER take off in its current form. The tech is not there, the hardware is ugly, cumbersome, anti-social, laughable to wear and look at and takes more than a button press to get going. You will never get a mainstream audience with a headset.
 

Straight Edge

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VR headsets need to be wireless and much lighter for me to consider trying one. I don’t even like using small headsets for voice chat.
 

GermanZepp

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The OASIS, or a metaverse would likely be quite a bit further off, but the hardware is not nearly as far off as people think. And to be honest, the hardware matters more because all it takes is a really good VRMMORPG and it will feel OASIS-esque anyway.

Though I would expect an early version of the metaverse to be in existence within 10 years. Like VRChat, but much bigger and more featured, and it would bleed into real life as well with AR / MR.

I kwon i was sarcastic in my response, but i really hope your predictios for the next few years workout, sounds awesome.
 

TheShadowLord

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. But as long as good games are put out like RE7 (freaking amazing experience), then VR isn't dead. It's just niche.
And this the much bigger problem with VR. If I'm to shell out $400 for a vr, I want some big budget games. At least comparable to console/pc AA. Low budget vr games are more like an appetizer in a course meal.
 

DarthBuzzer

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I've said this from the beigning and been harped on by the idiotic VR cult. Untlil the headset goes away, VR is DOA. It will never, EVER take off in its current form.
It's more like you have a personal problem with it, so it must never happen. At least that's the aura you give off.

The tech is not there,
The tech will get there, regardless of being a headset or not.

the hardware is ugly
The hardware will look completely fine as it approaches sunglasses.

cumbersome
Sunglasses are not going to be cumbersome.

anti-social
Only if you want it to be. Likewise, any device can be anti-social. If you want it to be social, put on a party game like Beat Saber and have turns, play asymmetrical games, or eventually scan real life into VR and see everything at the same time.
On the flip side, VR is easily the most socially connecting technology across distances.

laughable to wear and look at and takes more than a button press to get going
Already explained the form factor, but an Oculus Go today is literally just a put on / take off situation and that's it. You're returned to whatever you were last doing. When it's sunglasses, it's just slip on/off in a second. That's far too difficult clearly.

You will never get a mainstream audience with a headset.

Well damm, I guess the majority of the world's tech industry bet on the wrong horse then, and you bet right.
 
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shark sandwich

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Jun 9, 2012
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You should stop putting a label on things, especially since you don't understand the reality of the situation. VR and 3D / motion tracking is nothing alike. The difference in potential between the three are unparalleled. The potential of 3D ends very quickly; it's a ceiling comparable to a Hobbit home. The ceiling for VR might as well be a space elevator in comparison.
Uh no, there are tons of serious limitations to VR gaming that no amount of technological refinement can solve:

- nobody wants to wear a damn headset no matter how lightweight
- you’re cut off from your surroundings
- there’s a disconnect between the physical forces your vision tells you you should experience and what you’re actually(not) experiencing
- nobody wants to pantomime their avatar’s actions for any extended length of time
- anything that requires you to run/walk around (you know, like you do in almost all video games) requires a large dedicated space and even then is extremely limited
- even if you’re just sitting on the couch with a gamepad, having to move your head/neck around is an added inconvenience

VR gaming will never go beyond a niche market.
 

lukilladog

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So it´s pretty much confirmed now that scientific data shows that VR headsets are a massive failure as a device that people would want to adopt after experiencing it for a substantial period of time (weeks, months).

I know it´s obvious if you read the statements, I just wanna make sure nobody misses it :p
 

BANGS

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It's funny, when I say it I'm just a troll... either that or I didn't play enough of the right games on the right hardware and I'm completely ignorant because only an insane person wouldn't worship VR gaming and declare it as THE FUTURE!!!

Thank you Mr. Founder for clearing this up for the delusional fanboys...
 
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DarthBuzzer

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Uh no, there are tons of serious limitations to VR gaming that no amount of technological refinement can solve:

- nobody wants to wear a damn headset no matter how lightweight
- you’re cut off from your surroundings
- there’s a disconnect between the physical forces your vision tells you you should experience and what you’re actually(not) experiencing
- nobody wants to pantomime their avatar’s actions for any extended length of time
- anything that requires you to run/walk around (you know, like you do in almost all video games) requires a large dedicated space and even then is extremely limited
- even if you’re just sitting on the couch with a gamepad, having to move your head/neck around is an added inconvenience

VR gaming will never go beyond a niche market.
1. No one has tried a pair of retinal resolution, human FoV sunglasses that give you superpowers. All anyone's tried are today's headsets with today's games and today's limitations. I've said this before, but people will laugh at the idea of someone rejecting the idea of sunglasses-style VR when it comes along.
2. Today, yes. With mixed reality inside VR, you are not cut off.
3. Yes there is, but your brain fills in gaps very well. Perfection is not needed for something to take off. Successful technology has always had limitations in some form.
4. You don't have to. That's a choice because VR can range from seated using a gamepad all the way up to extremes like world-scale VR. And still, you have no numbers to back that statement up.
5. It does not require that at all. Myself, and most of my friends have been having lots of fun with VR for several years in small play-spaces. Nothing but a myth.
6. Not every game is like that. Admittedly most are, but you greatly exaggerate the difficulty in this. We do this all our lives as it is. If someone wants to completely chill with zero movement in VR, then they can just use VR to play non-VR games or use aspects of VR (including certain VR games) that don't require any neck movement.
 

DarthBuzzer

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So it´s pretty much confirmed now that scientific data shows that VR headsets are a massive failure as a device that people would want to adopt after experiencing it for a substantial period of time (weeks, months).

I know it´s obvious if you read the statements, I just wanna make sure nobody misses it :p
There's nothing to suggest this anywhere. All numbers suggest VR is mostly on track aside from a few bumps in the road; the growing pains of a medium, that everything you use today experienced in the past.

It's funny, when I say it I'm just a troll... either that or I didn't play enough of the right games on the right hardware and I'm completely ignorant because only an insane person wouldn't worship VR gaming and declare it as THE FUTURE!!!

Thank you Mr. Founder for clearing this up for the delusional fanboys...
Palmer believes (as anyone who is knowledgeable about VR should) in the long-term potential of VR because it's so blatantly obvious and world-changing. So unless these fanatics were saying that VR today is absolutely perfect, they are right to view VR as something that has extreme potential in it's future, some of which is being fulfilled today, just in an imperfect and early form.
 

Pagusas

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It's more like you have a personal problem with it, so it must never happen. At least that's the aura you give off.


The tech will get there, regardless of being a headset or not.


The hardware will look completely fine as it approaches sunglasses.


Sunglasses are not going to be cumbersome.


Only if you want it to be. Likewise, any device can be anti-social. If you want it to be social, put on a party game like Beat Saber and have turns, play asymmetrical games, or eventually scan real life into VR and see everything at the same time.
On the flip side, VR is easily the most socially connecting technology across distances.


Already explained the form factor, but an Oculus Go today is literally just a put on / take off situation and that's it. You're returned to whatever you were last doing. When it's sunglasses, it's just slip on/off in a second. That's far too difficult clearly.



Well damm, I guess the majority of the world's tech industry bet on the wrong horse then, and you bet right.


They haven’t bet on the wrong horse. This is a stepping stone tech. Just like many tech advances are. We have to go through it to get to the tech that will go mainstream, which is not a headset.
 

Griffon

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Too many VR games expect the user to move a lot around an open area, when most people in the world don't have that luxury.

Once VR glasses have retina resolution and see-through access to your physical mouse and keyboard, it'll be a great replacement to normal screens.
 

BANGS

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Palmer believes (as anyone who is knowledgeable about VR should) in the long-term potential of VR because it's so blatantly obvious and world-changing. So unless these fanatics were saying that VR today is absolutely perfect, they are right to view VR as something that has extreme potential in it's future, some of which is being fulfilled today, just in an imperfect and early form.
VR definitely has A future, a bright future perhaps... but to claim it is THE future of gaming, as well as objectively the best platform to play games on currently, is just asinine. This is usually what I am met with any time I dare criticize VR on any gaming forum, and what I was referring to in my previous post.

Any time I mentioned that I'm not currently fond of VR I'm met with "well what games did you play on? what hardware? oh that's why you only played bad games on bad hardware? oh what's that you played good games on good hardware? you're just a lying troll!" It's like fucking clockwork. The delusional fanboys just can't accept that someone would still generally dislike VR even with a ton of experience with it. But like the data shows, often times more experience leads to less interest...

edit: I just realized who you were lmfao this should end well...
 
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shark sandwich

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1980's is the decade VR will take off.
1990's is the decade VR will take off.
2000's is the decade VR will take off.
2010's is the decade VR will take off.

2020's is the decade VR will take off.
Reminds me of the old “year of Linux on the desktop” meme.

Nerds are TERRIBLE at predicting what the general public wants. Any time you hear a nerd say “they just need to improve this technology by doing such and such, then it’ll be a big success!” you can bet they’re almost certainly wrong.

Just look at Apple. They became the world’s most valuable (and most imitated) company by doing exactly the opposite of what nerds asked for with every single product they’ve launched since 2000.
 

DarthBuzzer

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They haven’t bet on the wrong horse. This is a stepping stone tech. Just like many tech advances are. We have to go through it to get to the tech that will go mainstream, which is not a headset.
They are not using VR headsets as a stepping stone technology because that would be a financial disaster. You want extremely good VR without headsets? That requires a full blown holodeck with solid holograms, which might not even happen this century. It's likely going to be easier to do full dive VR before a holodeck.

So no, they have to bet on the horse that gives them a long-term ROI. Not a long long long term ROI. They're all aiming for one final goal with AR/VR/MR: Sunglasses as a spatial computing device that do each of the aforementioned, switching between them freely. While we probably won't reach sunglasses in 10 years, we will likely have the remaining technology done by that point, which is going fulfill most of their goals.

Yes, the final frontier for VR is full dive. But it's so unbelievably far off that it's pointless to discuss today, so the final frontier in a realistic time frame is XR sunglasses.
 
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DarthBuzzer

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VR definitely has A future, a bright future perhaps... but to claim it is THE future of gaming, as well as objectively the best platform to play games on currently, is just asinine. This is usually what I am met with any time I dare criticize VR on any gaming forum, and what I was referring to in my previous post.

Any time I mentioned that I'm not currently fond of VR I'm met with "well what games did you play on? what hardware? oh that's why you only played bad games on bad hardware? oh what's that you played good games on good hardware? you're just a lying troll!" It's like fucking clockwork...

edit: I just realized who you were lmfao this should end well...
Yes, it's asinine to view it as such today. That being said, from a game experience standpoint, VR in the long-term would technically give you the best platform to play games on through screen simulation. The downside is wearing glasses to view simulated screens, but in terms of the actual experience of the game, being able to play with perfect virtual surround sound in an IMAX theater (or your favorite display configuration) would be ideal. It allows you to recreate material goods that you can't achieve in real life, because most people never get to play on their dream setup, and certainly barely anyone owns a life-sized IMAX theater to privately play games in.
 
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DarthBuzzer

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Reminds me of the old “year of Linux on the desktop” meme.

Nerds are TERRIBLE at predicting what the general public wants. Any time you hear a nerd say “they just need to improve this technology by doing such and such, then it’ll be a big success!” you can bet they’re almost certainly wrong.

Just look at Apple. They became the world’s most valuable (and most imitated) company by doing exactly the opposite of what nerds asked for with every single product they’ve launched since 2000.
That statement is applied to everything, and as such, you're essentially saying that almost all technologies will fail - since everything starts out with needing improvements, many improvements.

And you bring up Apple, who are working on AR (and possibly VR) which means a HMD that you wear.
 
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Vawn

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If you played Astro Bot, Moss and REVII VR, you'd know its plenty good enough. Affordable enough is another matter.
 

BANGS

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Yes, it's asinine to view it as such today.
Glad we agree...

That being said, from a game experience standpoint, VR in the long-term would technically give you the best platform to play games on through screen simulation.
I look forward to seeing if such technology will hold up as well as we imagine it to. Sounds intriguing but I'm certainly skeptical...
 

Fuz

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Unless a person thought VR was going to be the main way we all played games. That was never the goal
Oh, you clearly don't remember what people were saying back then.
And yes, I had fun with it for a (little) while playing with my friends, it's an enjoyable gimmick. But still a gimmick.
edit: I just realized who you were lmfao this should end well...
Why, who is he? :v
 
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DarthBuzzer

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Oh, you clearly don't remember what people were saying back then.
And yes, I had fun with it for a (little) while playing with my friends, it's an enjoyable gimmick. But still a gimmick.

Why, who is he? :v
Palmer Luckey.

No, but seriously I've had a few run-ins with the guy. At least there's some kind of agreement going on here anyway.
 

Three

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VR definitely has A future, a bright future perhaps... but to claim it is THE future of gaming, as well as objectively the best platform to play games on currently, is just asinine. This is usually what I am met with any time I dare criticize VR on any gaming forum, and what I was referring to in my previous post.
Nothing asnine about it. It's about as asinine as saying that regular consoles or PC games are the best platform to play games on currently. The convenience of phones and phone games may make it the most mainstream and most accessible platform out there but it doesn't make it the best experience to some. There are levels to everything. Somebody telling you that VR is amazing, more immersive etc is like a console owner telling a mobile user that the games on his console are better. You don't share that enthusiasm and that's fine but let the people enjoying it enjoy it. People just don't enjoy being told that what they enjoy is not important or dead because there is something more mainstream, console gaming is dead, VR is dead or whatever, let the enthusiasts share their enthusiasm.
 
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BANGS

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Nothing asnine about it. It's about as asinine as saying that regular consoles or PC games are the best platform to play games on currently. The convenience of phones and phone games may make it the most mainstream and most accessible platform out there but it doesn't make it the best experience to some. There are levels to everything. Somebody telling you that VR is amazing, more immersive etc is like a console owner telling a mobile user that the games on his console are better. You don't share that enthusiasm and that's fine but let the people enjoying it enjoy it. People just don't enjoy being told that what they enjoy is not important or dead because there is something more mainstream, console gaming is dead, VR is dead or whatever, let the enthusiasts share their enthusiasm.
You seem to have glossed over the "objectively" part... spouting any opinion as being objectively true is asinine, never mind one so ridiculous as VR being the best gaming platform...
 
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JCK75

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My experience with the Vive has been 100% awesome, I think we are close personally but it does have to be more accessible to casuals.
 

DarthBuzzer

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The part where he says he knows this (people abandoning the thing after a few weeks or months) from the results of large scale real word market testing.
A massive fail is only a massive failure if it fails to meet the standards expected of it, which are set by looking at other technologies at this time in their life cycle. People abandoned many other successful mainstream technologies too, whilst they were experiencing their own growing pains.

To call it a massive failure would imply that it's vastly under-performing in that area compared to other such mediums, which is not the case.
 
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The groundwork is still being laid for the future though, even if the timeline is longer than many expected.

As they keep getting smaller, cheaper and with more games, the popularity will grow over time.
 

LittleBusters

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ITT - Amazing all the attempts to justify VR's failure. Mainstream success is 10 years away at least. Unless Apple shocks the world with VR glasses that are 10x better than anything on the market right now in 2020.
 
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lukilladog

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A massive fail is only a massive failure if it fails to meet the standards expected of it, which are set by looking at other technologies at this time in their life cycle. People abandoned many other successful mainstream technologies too, whilst they were experiencing their own growing pains.

To call it a massive failure would imply that it's vastly under-performing in that area compared to other such mediums, which is not the case.

If you assume the expected standard was to serve as a piece of decoration, then I guess it´s a massive success.
 
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Urantian

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I'm not sure a VR only device will ever go mainstream.
The devices that will eventually go mainstream will be AR/VR, small, light weight, wireless, and self contained.
15 years away?
 

LittleBusters

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Just look at some science fiction movies & TV shows take on VR. Essentially it has to be 100% total sensory immersion. Think 'Sword Art Online'.
 

StreetsofBeige

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1980's is the decade VR will take off.
1990's is the decade VR will take off.
2000's is the decade VR will take off.
2010's is the decade VR will take off.

2020's is the decade VR will take off.
Yup. Nice diversion for people who want to spend money and dabble with something different. But all these non-traditional gaming peripherals never come close to full adoption.....

- Light sensor guns
- Virtual Boy
- Powerglove
- Steering wheels
- Motion gaming (even though MS, Nintendo, Sony sold tons of motion hardware last gen they still bailed on it in current gen)

Even if a VR helmet was $50 I don't think most people would bother. Not worth the money as the non-VR product is good enough. A different type of experience, but I don't see people lining up to play Resident Evil VR version. Instead they buy the normal game and sit on a couch.

It's like movies. You can pay the standard ticket, or pay an extra $5 and get better seats and 3D effects. But pretty sure 95% of people just get the standard ticket. And for this comparison, it's an apples to apples product, but with comfier seats and better effects, yet most people still don't care.
 
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Shmunter

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That’s quite scathing, and he would have the stats. It’s certainly a personal thing, I play my PSVR today, and I got it launch day, even upgraded to v2.

But the majority will certainly gravitate to convenience, and nothing more convenient than plonking yourself on a sofa with controller in hand.
 
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DarthBuzzer

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Yup. Nice diversion for people who want to spend money and dabble with something different. But all these non-traditional gaming peripherals never come close to full adoption.....

- Light sensor guns
- Virtual Boy
- Powerglove
- Steering wheels
- Motion gaming (even though MS, Nintendo, Sony sold tons of motion hardware last gen they still bailed on it in current gen)

Even if a VR helmet was $50 I don't think most people would bother. Not worth the money as the non-VR product is good enough. A different type of experience, but I don't see people lining up to play Resident Evil VR version. Instead they buy the normal game and sit on a couch.

It's like movies. You can pay the standard ticket, or pay an extra $5 and get better seats and 3D effects. But pretty sure 95% of people just get the standard ticket. And for this comparison, it's an apples to apples product, but with comfier seats and better effects, yet most people still don't care.
- Light sensor guns and steering wheels are meant for one use case only. VR is meant for everything.
- The powerglove and virtual boy were all around awful by all accounts.
- Motion gaming was too limited and only lives up to it's potential when used with VR.

Nothing stuck in the past because they were either bad and/or lacked potential. VR has neither of these issues. Instead it has the issues of being in it's early days. You can take any failed peripherial or proposed future for gaming and place it right at the tip of it's potential. Yet none of them would be all too great even at their best. Except for VR, the only time where it would defy this.

People don't line up to play RE7 in retail terms because they have to spend hundreds of dollars on a medium they have never tried. It's a lot of blind faith going in.
People do line up to play RE7 for free, at conventions and such, because there is no risk here. VR queues can get pretty big at times.

People don't care so much today mostly because most people have yet to try it. Combine that with the fact that it's early days and it's clear to see why it's not selling as more than a niche. But that will change as these hurdles are crossed as time goes on.
 
H

hariseldon

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I have a funny feeling that many of the people bagging on VR are people who have never used it in anger. It's mind-blowing the first time you use it, and when you find your specific use-case it completely changes that game for you. For me that's racing games and sims. Honestly I don't mind if VR never progresses beyond here, I've got a fabulous bit of kit and can go on virtual track days whenever I like. Or to put it another way, if you told 12-year-old me back in 1992 playing on my Atari ST that this is what I'd be playing with when I grew up I'd be pretty fucking stoked.
 

Urantian

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VR offers an experience like no other. I can't play Elite unless it's in VR anymore, and games like Budget Cuts and BeatSaber are experiences you can't have anywhere else.
Though racing games games(while totally playable) are still too pixelated for my personal tastes(But can't wait for Forza Horizon 8 in high fidelity VR!).
I agree that people who hate againt VR just haven't had their "it" moment with the tech.
 

A.Romero

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It's not VR's time yet, I agree with Luckey.

However, I still think it's the future. It will grow more convenient over time and software will be adapted.

I still remember a lot of people resisting to phones with touch screens at the beginning because they thought keyboards and dial pads were better. Today, most people are OK with using touchscreens for pretty much everything. It's not because keyboards and dialpads sucked, it's just that touchscreens are way more convenient and flexible for most uses. Newer generations wouldn't like to have a keyboard on their phone.

Another example could be LCD screens vs CRT screens. I mean, there is still people that prefer to use CRT screens. They do have their benefits and they were definitely better than early LCD screens (and way cheaper) but technology advanced and LCD tech is better for most cases than CRT's in general.

It's a transitional thing and as always, there are early adopters that are willing to put up with the limitations of the first few generations. There will be a point were tech will be convenient enough for mass adoption. Later a lot of the inconveniences that the use of the tech has will be compensated by adaptation of its users.

Stuff like being isolated will be as much of an issue as being distracted by phones and headphones currently is.