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[Sirpopopop]

Fix Immigration. It's What Voters Want

Choice quotes:

Higher wages, better benefits and more security for American workers are features, not bugs, of sound immigration reform. For too long, our immigration policy has skewed toward the interests of the wealthy and powerful: Employers get cheaper labor, and professionals get cheaper personal services like housekeeping. We now need an immigration policy that focuses less on the most powerful and more on everyone else.

No doubt automation and globalization have also affected wages, but mass immigration accelerates these trends with surplus labor, which of course decreases wages. Little wonder, then, that these Americans voted for the candidate who promised higher wages and less immigration instead of all the candidates — Republicans and Democrats alike — who promised essentially more of the same on immigration.

Our country, like any country, needs borders and must decide who and how many can cross those borders. We must make this decision with the well-being of all our citizens in mind. Today, that means a large reduction in legal immigration and a reorientation toward ultra-high-skill immigrants.

This policy would resemble the immigration systems of Canada and Australia, countries with similar advanced economies. While our system gives priority to reuniting extended families and low-skilled labor, their systems prize nuclear-family reunification and attributes like language skills, education and work experience. A similar system here would allow in immigrants like doctors to work in rural areas while not pushing down working-class wages.

In some quarters, proposals like these invoke cries of “nativism” and “xenophobia.” But recent immigrants are the very Americans who have to compete with new immigrants for jobs. Far from being anti-immigrant, this proposal would give recent arrivals a better shot at higher wages, stable work and assimilation.

I agree we need an immigration policy that focuses less on the most powerful and more on everyone else.

I don't see how closing the borders does anything more than screwing over everyone else and the most powerful at the same time. Certainly, that's what shit like attacking sanctuary cities will accomplish.

If higher wages is your goal Mr.Cotton, wouldn't passing a bill for a higher minimum wage work better than building a wall?

If you are worried about cries of "nativism" and "xenophobia" why not make note of the fact that you are supporting a candidate who wants to create a Muslim registry, and suggested an American-born judge was biased against him because of the judge's name. That's why they are coming, not because of this fairy tale belief you have about Trump's "true goals," being opposed by Democrats. That implies an intelligence on his part that we know he lacks.

Oh, and do read the comments. They are quality.

 

[capitalCORN]

Just a bunch of hand wringing to play both sides.

 

[Guevara]

I don't understand the thread title, this is a very standard Republican/populist take on immigration.

 

[Sirpopopop]

I don't understand the thread title, this is a very standard Republican/populist take on immigration.

Read the article. It's how he justifies supporting Trump's immigration policies.

Donald J. Trump smashed many orthodoxies on his way to victory, but immigration was the defining issue separating him from his primary opponents and Hillary Clinton. President-elect Trump now has a clear mandate not only to stop illegal immigration, but also to finally cut the generation-long influx of low-skilled immigrants that undermines American workers.

 

[Karkador]

I honestly don't see most of the jobs immigrants are doing being picked up by "American workers". Prioritizing "ultra-high-skill legal immigrants (what a qualifier) isn't gonna fill those jobs, either. Albert Einstein isn't coming here to work in the fields or in housekeeping.

 

[shiftplusone]

i dont see a scenario in which the factory workers who are losing their jobs go take a job picking berries for 5 cents a bushel like many of these "low-skilled immigrants [who] undermines American workers."

 

[Lowmelody]

Not a single cogent point or argument in that entire article. First sentence of the quotes doesn't even make sense ffs.

 

[Blader]

i dont see a scenario in which the factory workers who are losing their jobs go take a job picking berries for 5 cents a bushel like many of these "low-skilled immigrants [who] undermines American workers."

I don't see those employers suddenly raising wages and offering benefits either.

 

[Mathieran]

How can trump or anyone else claim a mandate on anything when he lost the popular vote by 3 million people?

 

[AndyD]

I honestly don't see most of the jobs immigrants are doing being picked up by "American workers". Prioritizing "ultra-high-skill legal immigrants (what a qualifier) isn't gonna fill those jobs, either. Albert Einstein isn't coming here to work in the fields or in housekeeping.

It's the extreme vetting process all over again. Essentially raise the bar on H1B and eliminate farmwork passes. This should cause all sorts of industries to raise alarm flags. And as said above, there's no way farmers will be able to pay enough wages to move middle aged white coal miners to rural Georgia to pick cotton and peanuts.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

The fuck is that first sentence lol

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

"clear mandate" my ass.

 

[hawk2025]

lol, he doesn't even use the "feature, not a bug" argument correctly.

 

[Biske]

Ah nothing like a good old "TRUST US! If we fuck over this group of people, things will improve so much for YOU!! HATE THEM! FUCK EM!!! FUCK EM GOOD!" argument.

 

[Ogodei]

It's actually a pretty well-structured argument. It's not right, but his points aren't outlandish, he just ignores the massive knock-on effects that "normalizing" our immigration policy would have. Large increases in produce prices, to start, which would have to be offset by subsidies because people aren't going to buy tomatoes at twice their current price, so the supply would collapse because farmers would switch exclusive to non-manual-labor-intensive crops where a massive seasonal labor shortage wouldn't hold them back.

The other thing that needs to be examined is long-term population dynamics. A lot of our social services are built on the assumption of continued population expansion at a steady rate, and immigrants are a big part of that (bigger still if you count recent immigrants who have a higher birthrate). White America's demographic outlook is scarily like Japan's, and who wants to deal with that?

I have no problem with immigration reform, but it should definitely include amnesty for anyone who's been here for a certain amount of time and have committed no crimes, and should be very carefully tailored to minimize disruption to the economy, both within specific markets and to our economy as a whole through demographic changes.

The wall is a stupid boondoggle, but "deportation force" is the only truly monstrous part of the new fascist platform.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

What is "ultra high-skilled" immigration? You have to be Einstein to move countries? Come on. It's already ridiculously hard (read:impossible) for skilled workers to move to the USA as it is.

I'd say this kind of policy favours the rich and powerful. It closes the doors of opportunity to anyone but the ultra rich or the powerful. A person who is 'average' in their skilled job but is ambitious and wants to experience living in other countries should have the opportunity open to them. I have a STEM degree and am working towards a career in technology, but those insanely difficult visa rules, man. It's the USA's loss in the long run. Other countries can poach all those young skilled workers by welcoming them in with open arms.

 

[SDBurton]

i dont see a scenario in which the factory workers who are losing their jobs go take a job picking berries for 5 cents a bushel like many of these "low-skilled immigrants [who] undermines American workers."

"Hey we kicked out the immigrants, so now we got some positions open."

"That's great! I've been needing a job real bad for quite some time. What do you got?"

"We need guys who can pick berries, greens and what not."

"....I don't want that job."

 

[dcdobson]

It's actually a pretty well-structured argument. It's not right, but his points aren't outlandish, he just ignores the massive knock-on effects that "normalizing" our immigration policy would have. Large increases in produce prices, to start, which would have to be offset by subsidies because people aren't going to buy tomatoes at twice their current price, so the supply would collapse because farmers would switch exclusive to non-manual-labor-intensive crops where a massive seasonal labor shortage wouldn't hold them back.

The other thing that needs to be examined is long-term population dynamics. A lot of our social services are built on the assumption of continued population expansion at a steady rate, and immigrants are a big part of that (bigger still if you count recent immigrants who have a higher birthrate). White America's demographic outlook is scarily like Japan's, and who wants to deal with that?

I have no problem with immigration reform, but it should definitely include amnesty for anyone who's been here for a certain amount of time and have committed no crimes, and should be very carefully tailored to minimize disruption to the economy, both within specific markets and to our economy as a whole through demographic changes.

The wall is a stupid boondoggle, but "deportation force" is the only truly monstrous part of the new fascist platform.

I agree with just about all of this. I'd add that amnesty doesn't necessarily mean citizenship, which would be a reasonable outcome imo.

 

[hawk2025]

I agree with just about all of this. I'd add that amnesty doesn't necessarily mean citizenship, which would be a reasonable outcome imo.

I agree in general as well.

I don't really see the point of letting people stay and always be second class by witholding citizenship. Simple punishment for punishment's sake?

 

[MetatronM]

This policy would resemble the immigration systems of Canada and Australia, countries with similar advanced economies.

In what universe does the United States of America (GDP $18,561,930) have an economy that resembles Canada's (GDP $1,532,340) or Australia's (GDP $1,256,640)?

 

[AndyD]

I agree in general as well.

I don't really see the point of letting people stay and always be second class by witholding citizenship. Simple punishment for punishment's sake?

I think there is a certain amount of a "fairness" argument for legal immigrants. That said, if you give amnesty and put them at "the back of the line" for citizenship, most people won't complain. Because the line is years and years long as it is and in that time you have earned it.

 

[dcdobson]

I agree in general as well.

I don't really see the point of letting people stay and always be second class by witholding citizenship. Simple punishment for punishment's sake?

It's definitely not a sticking point of mine, but it's a way of acknowledging that they broke the law and so shouldn't be entitled to the exact same privileges as legal immigrants. That said, I think they should be able to attain permanent resident status, so they're able to fully participate in social and economic life.

 

[hawk2025]

I think there is a certain amount of a "fairness" argument for legal immigrants. That said, if you give amnesty and put them at "the back of the line" for citizenship, most people won't complain. Because the line is years and years long as it is and in that time you have earned it.

As a legal immigrant that has spent five figures on the incredibly frustrating and time-consuming process, I say go for it.

I can see the argument for putting people in the back of the line while giving them resident status, but denying them citizenship for perpetuity just seems cruel for no particular reason, IMO.

 

[norinrad]

Is the writer of the article living on the North Pole or North Korea and how old is he?

 

[AndyD]

As a legal immigrant that has spent five figures on the incredibly frustrating and time-consuming process, I say go for it.

I can see the argument for putting people in the back of the line while giving them resident status, but denying them citizenship for perpetuity just seems cruel for no particular reason, IMO.

Same here as a now citizen but legal immigrant who spent almost a decade in the waiting game.

That said, other pre-citizenship immigrants I speak with have a strong distaste for any solution that does not involve a "back of the line" approach. Mainly because the line is so long. If it were months no one would care.