• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

|OT| Nvidia RTX 30XX |OT|

Rygeist

Banned
Jan 28, 2019
140
159
240
In that Nvidia thread there was one person hoping that the excecs at Nividia get covid and die.... that really excessive for just a damn graphics card...
I saw that as well. Not to mention some people saying they want to give up on PC Gaming altogether. Yeah right lol. Death threats and wishing death on employees because you didn't get a GPU? Fuck outta here.

It's pretty entertaining to see NVIDIA get pounded by PR backlash.

EDIT: Gigabyte went up on NVIDIA's store and immediately sold out again. Why haven't these clowns removed stock from the site? Why are bots still eating them up after every restock? Put a damn captcha up, you idiots. So many questions.

2020 has been absolutely insane.
 
Last edited:

Pippelipeikko

Member
Jan 9, 2018
162
195
325
My (as well as half of Europe's) Zotac from Amazon.de is hanging in there, like a champ! Should dispatch today, I'll tell you now that if it manages to ship I will run naked around our housing company garden.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GaviotaGrande

Rygeist

Banned
Jan 28, 2019
140
159
240
I was just wondering, why so many of you are in such a hurry to get this gpu? I mean, there's nothing new coming in the next couple of months, and paying 800 dollars instead of 700smth is not such a big deal.... Why so much hype and hysteria? :D
What you call "hype" and "hysteria" can also be looked at as passion. What's wrong with our discussion? Let people enjoy things.


I genuinely feel for anyone who was waiting on this card to complement their display or who sold their card in advance and now have empty PCI-e slots on their motherboard. I really, really do.

But it's fucking hilarious that anyone is fuming from not getting a card today as if they've never been through a launch before. Not to mention everyone already knew ahead of time this was going to be scarce at launch. It's even funnier to still hear "AMD has nothing coming" from those who got hit the hardest by Nvidia prematurely announcing their power hungry monster of a card. I see overclock videos hitting over 350 watts and that should be a huge red flag to anyone who knows how hard Nvidia has overhyped efficiency over the last six years.

Patience and discernment are virtues.
I mean....what?

I guess people wanting cards didn't expect them all to be sold out in 92 seconds to scalpers and bots. There is anger and frustration for a pretty legit reason. Patience has nothing to do with it. Getting cards in the past wasn't even close to the bloodbath this year.
 
Last edited:
Sep 29, 2011
3,355
1,549
850
I think, after this ordeal, I'm going to need to get a new keyboard if I ever expect to need to use the F5 key again.

Edit: Nvm, found a chrome extension that will auto reload a tab/page every so often. I have a big screen, so I just set it to refresh every thirty seconds and put it in the corner. Lol
 
Last edited:

small_law

Member
Nov 30, 2017
216
183
295
For the low, low, low price of $97k USD. Let me check my account real quick, but I think I have just enough on hand.
Okay I've always wanted an answer this question: how effective would it be to fleece one of these assholes with a charge back. Your card issuer is going to see this egregious charge and probably not doubt it's a mistake. If you've never asked for a chargeback before, It seems like a pretty viable strategy. EBay favors buyers. Not exactly the most ethical things to do, but scalpers ain't exactly occupying the moral high ground here.
 

Krappadizzle

Member
Oct 4, 2011
14,422
4,784
1,170
I think, after this ordeal, I'm going to need to get a new keyboard if I ever expect to need to use the F5 key again.

Edit: Nvm, found a chrome extension that will auto reload a tab/page every so often. I have a big screen, so I just set it to refresh every thirty seconds and put it in the corner. Lol
What extension?
 

Rygeist

Banned
Jan 28, 2019
140
159
240
Okay I've always wanted an answer this question: how effective would it be to fleece one of these assholes with a charge back. Your card issuer is going to see this egregious charge and probably not doubt it's a mistake. If you've never asked for a chargeback before, It seems like a pretty viable strategy. EBay favors buyers. Not exactly the most ethical things to do, but scalpers ain't exactly occupying the moral high ground here.
This. This is the big brain idea that we need.
 

small_law

Member
Nov 30, 2017
216
183
295
This. This is the big brain idea that we need.
to be clear I don't want to advocate anything that's illegal. As I understand eBay, and I don't understand it very well, when you pay for something that money stays in escrow until you receive the item you won or purchased. Once eBay gets a confirmation of that then they release the money to the seller after X amount of hours or so. Again my understanding of things is vague but if you open up a return or dispute a charge or something, the money is going to stay in escrow while the dispute is pending, long enough for you to call your credit card to company and try to get a charge back. eBay absolutely favors buyers. They don't release the money to the seller until the transaction is complete or if the return is in progress and then complete, back to the buyer. If you do get the charge back, you get both the card and the money back. Close down your accounts and never speak of it again.

Not exactly the most legal or ethical thing, but honestly, fuck you assholes out there with your bullshit bots and your garbage eBay accounts. No one's buying your dumb fucking shit for $10,000 more than it's worth. You have it coming and maybe someone has the stones to do it.
 
Last edited:

BluRayHiDef

Member
Aug 21, 2015
3,358
4,368
750
So, when people camp out, what do they do when they have to use the toilet? Do they hold it in or step off the line to visit a nearby bathroom? If the latter, do they lose their spot in line?
 
  • LOL
Reactions: HerjansEagleFeeder

TheCockatrice

Member
Jun 16, 2019
2,304
4,274
525
No stocks in my country which sucks. Checked 4 online stores and some shady ones as well, nothing. Meh. Did not expect my poor ass country to be that desperate for these gpus wtf. Either that or there were no stocks to begin with because I checked daily and there was nothing. Some comments mentioned it as well.
 
Last edited:

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
2,658
3,916
515
AMD isnt announcing new cards until the end of October, and they won't wind up releasing until November. IDK what you mean "a week before AMD's new cards".

Yeah, this launch fucking blows, and I'm pissed about the events of this morning. However, I have been gaming on PC for about 20 years. I know ATI/AMD's track record (for the last five or so years especially). I'm expecting cards that compete with Nvidias low and mid range. And their cards won't support ray tracing or DLSS. So I'm not getting particularly excited for anything they're launching. Nvidia has enthusiasts by the balls. Fortunately this go around the 3000 series actually is good value as opposed to the 2000 series.
I think you're heavily underestimating AMD this time. More importantly, you're factually wrong about ray tracing. DLSS alternative, they might or might not have it. I created a thread about why AMD 6000 series should not be underestimated... If interested...;


nVidia wouldn't have made the 3000 series 'good value' (which to me is actually not really good value) for no reason... Some people posting on Techspot said it best regarding Ampere's value... I'll quote them here...

"It's amazes me just how successfully that nVidia has manipulated their customer base. Their first step was to release the 2080 at $700 which was barely a performance jump over the GTX 1080 Ti (which was also $700). Step two was to release the 2080 Ti which was a made their customers so used to getting screwed over by pricing the 2080 Ti at $1200, that pricing the 3080 at $700 (where the 2080 Ti should have been in the first place and where the 3080 Ti should be priced instead of the 3080), nVidia has made its customer base extremely happy to get screwed over.

Let's look at the pricing progression, shall we?

MSRP of GTX 280 $649
MSRP of GTX 480 $499
MSRP of GTX 580 $499
MSRP of GTX 680 $499
MSRP of GTX 780 $649
MSRP of GTX 780 Ti $699 <- Top-tier Ti line at $699
MSRP of GTX 980 Ti $699 <- Top-tier Ti line at $699
MSRP of GTX 1080 Ti $699 <- Top-tier Ti line at $699
MSRP of RTX 2080 $699 <- Top-tier NON-Ti line at $699
MSRP of RTX 2080 Ti $1199 <- Top-tier Ti line at $1200?!?!?!
MSRP of RTX 3080 $699 <- Top-tier NON-Ti line at $699 (just like RTX 20)
MSRP of RTX 3080 Ti $1199 <- Top-tier NON-Ti line at $699 (just like RTX 20)
MSRP of RTX 3090 $1499 <- Still way more expensive than the Ti

So, nVidia has conditioned the sheep to suddenly accept a $500 jump in price for the top-tier Ti line from $699 to $1199 and the non-Ti from $499 to $649. Don't tell me it's inflation because the cost of the top-tier card was between $500 and $649 for FIVE GENERATIONS (at LEAST ten years). Don't tell me that it's inflation because the IBM PC model 5150 was $2000 in 1984 and we're not paying $12000 for entire PCs that are not even in the same performance universe as that old IBM. Tech is supposed to get cheaper over time with new tech being the same price as the old was (or LESS not more). Here we have nVidia finding a way around that to charge people even more and more money when they shouldn't be (they don't have to after all) and people are CELEBRATING THIS? Seriously? "

And...

"I wanted to point out that this isn't as good as nVidia makes it out to be because a lot of people have short memories. Is this good? Yes and no because good is relative. Pascal was a much better launch for its time and it's not even close. That GTX 1080 Ti was perhaps the best high-end video card value that I've ever seen. That thing is still a monster today and Pascal should be the benchmark against which all nVidia launches are compared, not Turing.

I just want people to temper their emotional response of euphoria (and believe me, I get it) and remember that this isn't really all that great. Sure. it's just great compared to how horrible Turing was but it's still pretty bad compared to how great Pascal was. Pascal was a GIGANTIC LEAP from Kepler and the prices remained THE SAME, as they should have.

How long did we suffer with Intel sandbagging because AMD's FX wasn't up to scratch but were too busy being happy about the little incremental improvements that Intel made? We were so preoccupied with how much better Devil's Canyon was compared to Ivy Bridge that we didn't realise what Intel was doing to us until after Ryzen launched. We needed AMD to wake us up and it's because we couldn't see the forest for the trees. We need to be a little bit more cynical and a little less naive, even though that's not always fun (actually it never really is). Yes, Ampere is better than Turing and nVidia wants us to focus on that because it's to their advantage if we do so. However, if we forget how good that it can be or fail to notice the bigger picture and the path that we seem to be on, do you know what that makes us?

Boiled frogs my friend. boiled frogs. I don't want that for any of us, even if I have to be a bit of a killjoy to point it out. "
 
Last edited:

BluRayHiDef

Member
Aug 21, 2015
3,358
4,368
750

Itshappening.gif
It's shady to release VRAM-deprived SKUs but then release corresponding SKUs with twice the VRAM soon after. I guess Nvidia knows that a lot of people will double-dip by buying the 8GB 3070 and the 10GB 3080 but then dump them on ebay when the respective 16GB and 20GB SKUs are released.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Allnamestakenlol

TheCockatrice

Member
Jun 16, 2019
2,304
4,274
525
It's shady to release VRAM-deprived SKUs but then release corresponding SKUs with twice the VRAM soon after. I guess Nvidia knows that a lot of people will double-dip by buying the 8GB 3070 and the 10GB 3080 but then dump them on ebay when the respective 16GB and 20GB SKUs are released.
yeaht that's scummy af. ffs.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Jun 26, 2007
43,611
14,578
1,770
Best Coast
  • Like
Reactions: HerjansEagleFeeder
Oct 27, 2012
2,204
2,694
865
38
People selling preorders on eBay. Not even cards, preorders. "Confirmed" order lol


I can understand scalpers, but this is like being a wannabe scalper. Can you go any lower?
 

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
22,470
23,498
1,825
20GB 3080 cards are coming along with 16GB 3070's:









Yesterdays joke of a "launch" was a blessing. I'll wait for the 20GB version.
 
Last edited:

Nydus

Member
May 6, 2014
661
473
545
20GB 3080 cards are coming along with 16GB 3070's:









Yesterdays joke of a "launch" was a blessing. I'll wait for the 20GB version.
i bet prices on those will be brutal. i say 799€ MSRP and cards will go for 850€ minimum. My highest i want to spend is 750€.

I also preOrdered at another store. They had the TUF for 750€. but no idea if or when they will ship. the status is "unknown" :( im in no rush but to atleast know if they will come in september or october would be nice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HerjansEagleFeeder

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
22,470
23,498
1,825
i bet prices on those will be brutal. i say 799€ MSRP and cards will go for 850€ minimum. My highest i want to spend is 750€.

I also preOrdered at another store. They had the TUF for 750€. but no idea if or when they will ship. the status is "unknown" :( im in no rush but to atleast know if they will come in september or october would be nice.
I'm willing to go to $1000 for a new card but it needs to tick all the boxes for me at that price (including looks as shallow as that might sound).

So as long as the 20GB versions are under that then I'll be ok with paying the premium. Anything more and I may as well get a 3090.
 
Last edited:

Rikkori

Member
May 9, 2020
1,577
2,666
405
nVidia wouldn't have made the 3000 series 'good value' (which to me is actually not really good value) for no reason...
But that's the thing, they didn't really do it, they just made the product not totally awful because they had to... Their choices with Turing forced them into this position today.
What's the alternative? Sell the 3080 as a 3080 Ti for $1200 like for Turing, but now the difference between the 2 in OC is only 15%? While also adding basically no new features that are must haves for gamers? All while RDNA2 is on its way and not only that but an even bigger threat - PC gamers switching to new consoles and not buying GPUs at all for 7 years? No way could Nvidia let that happen.

I agree with you though, AMD definitely has a shot at competing this time around across the whole stack. We'll see whether they care to or not depending on their memory config choices.
 
Mar 3, 2014
2,736
717
580
so with the 20GB version being confirmed, I just want to know; is there really need for that much RAM if you're not doing 4K stuff? or hell, even if you're running 4K stuff, is 20GB over kill or there's legit need for it?
 

Type_Raver

Member
Oct 13, 2006
624
136
1,305
Well I missed out on getting a 3080 FE today.

With the restocking challenges (4+ weeks to restock FE), this has indirectly made me wait to hear more about RDNA 2 in a months time.
I wouldve liked to have had a 3080 coming, however since my main upgrade isnt coming until ZEN3 is out, its not urgent.
 

TriSuit666

Member
Jul 2, 2018
738
673
345
to be clear I don't want to advocate anything that's illegal. As I understand eBay, and I don't understand it very well, when you pay for something that money stays in escrow until you receive the item you won or purchased. Once eBay gets a confirmation of that then they release the money to the seller after X amount of hours or so. Again my understanding of things is vague but if you open up a return or dispute a charge or something, the money is going to stay in escrow while the dispute is pending, long enough for you to call your credit card to company and try to get a charge back. eBay absolutely favors buyers. They don't release the money to the seller until the transaction is complete or if the return is in progress and then complete, back to the buyer. If you do get the charge back, you get both the card and the money back. Close down your accounts and never speak of it again.

Not exactly the most legal or ethical thing, but honestly, fuck you assholes out there with your bullshit bots and your garbage eBay accounts. No one's buying your dumb fucking shit for $10,000 more than it's worth. You have it coming and maybe someone has the stones to do it.
eBay don't do anything, it's all through PayPal.

And yes, sometimes they hold a payment back from a seller, as it's happened to me. But it's more a bullying tactic to buy into the eBay eco-system as you can speed up the release of the funds if you jump through some hoops.
 
  • Like
Reactions: small_law

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
22,470
23,498
1,825
so with the 20GB version being confirmed, I just want to know; is there really need for that much RAM if you're not doing 4K stuff? or hell, even if you're running 4K stuff, is 20GB over kill or there's legit need for it?
If you game at 1440p then no, I'd say 10GB should be plenty,.

At 4k and above it will be nice to have a buffer. Yes it's fine for most games today but some games are already bouncing off the 10GB limit at 4k (for example Doom Eternal and Flight Sim).

The situation reminds me of when the GTX 680 2GB released, it was great for the time it released (start of a new console gen, so the only benchmarks available at the time were last gen games) but within a year it was starting to age horribly as the next generation assets started filling the VRAM up very quickly.

I doubt it will happen as fast this time because there's an unusual amount of cross gen stuff going on at the moment, but if you plan on keeping the card for 2-3 years and want to game at 4k then 10GB should make you pause.
 

Ascend

Member
Jul 23, 2018
2,658
3,916
515
But that's the thing, they didn't really do it, they just made the product not totally awful because they had to... Their choices with Turing forced them into this position today.
What's the alternative? Sell the 3080 as a 3080 Ti for $1200 like for Turing, but now the difference between the 2 in OC is only 15%? While also adding basically no new features that are must haves for gamers? All while RDNA2 is on its way and not only that but an even bigger threat - PC gamers switching to new consoles and not buying GPUs at all for 7 years? No way could Nvidia let that happen.

I agree with you though, AMD definitely has a shot at competing this time around across the whole stack. We'll see whether they care to or not depending on their memory config choices.
I wonder what people will choose, if AMD's best card is faster than a 3080 at 1440p, but 5% slower at 4k, while having 16GB of RAM, 300W power consumption and costing $600.
 

Nydus

Member
May 6, 2014
661
473
545
so with the 20GB version being confirmed, I just want to know; is there really need for that much RAM if you're not doing 4K stuff? or hell, even if you're running 4K stuff, is 20GB over kill or there's legit need for it?
Its good for your peace of mind. I personally dont believe that we will see anything major in the next 2 years that will hamper any 10GB card at 4k. And lets be real here: even if performance is down 10% cause a game is flooding the VRAM. You a) wont notice it cause the card is fucking fast or b) just turn textures down one notch and the difference between ULTRA and HIGH textures is almost nonexistent. If you do something other then gaming YMMW.

I'm willing to go to $1000 for a new card but it needs to tick all the boxes for me at that price (including looks as shallow as that might sound).

So as long as the 20GB versions are under that then I'll be ok with paying the premium. Anything more and I may as well get a 3090.
Ah ok. What is your dreamcard then? :D im back on the "best bang for the buck" train so 1000€ just for a GPU is waaaayyy too much for me. (instead i try to budget a new OLED to replace my B7)
 

nemiroff

Member
Feb 19, 2018
1,414
1,806
465
I just cancelled my 3080 order.. But with that said, I firmly believe, despite the low-IQ FUD, that 99% of 3080 owners will probably never have an issue whatsoever with 10GB VRAM. It's just that I have a Reverb G2 on its way.. And I need peace of mind..
 
  • Like
Reactions: HerjansEagleFeeder

pawel86ck

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
2,126
3,232
400
so with the 20GB version being confirmed, I just want to know; is there really need for that much RAM if you're not doing 4K stuff? or hell, even if you're running 4K stuff, is 20GB over kill or there's legit need for it?
There's only one game currently that require more than 11GB at 4K.


17 fps with maxed out textures and 42fps with standard at 4K on 2080ti. I remember reading article where it was mentioned textures for this game are specifically created for next gen consoles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Robot Carnival

ZywyPL

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,851
6,349
655
Those high VRAM variants will probably not be at alluring paper-launch prices like $699. You'll be paying,and Nvidia will be taking their margins.
I wonder how close the 20GB 3080 will get in price to 3090, technically it's the exact same 628mm chip, and it's the 24GB VRAM that boosts the price to 1500$. I guess 1200-1300, same as for 2080Ti is tobe expected.
 

Nydus

Member
May 6, 2014
661
473
545
There's only one game currently that require more than 11GB at 4K.


17 fps with maxed out textures and 42fps with standard at 4K on 2080ti. I remember reading article where it was mentioned textures for this game are specifically created for next gen consoles.
A Benchmark with a Titan RTX would be nice. Or even better, with a 3080. With the standard packe the 3080 manages to hit 60fps despite having less VRAM.
 

Malte

Neo Member
Aug 18, 2020
11
5
90
I think that 20GB are way too much for the RTX 3080. Why not position the card in the 14-16GB range at a lower price point?

I would expect that the 20GB card does not only have more Vram, but it also faster overall than the standard 3080.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HerjansEagleFeeder

pawel86ck

Banned
Jan 27, 2018
2,126
3,232
400
I wonder how close the 20GB 3080 will get in price to 3090, technically it's the exact same 628mm chip, and it's the 24GB VRAM that boosts the price to 1500$. I guess 1200-1300, same as for 2080Ti is tobe expected.
I'm expecting 999$, but I think it will be worth it. 3080 is really fast and 20GB model should run games for the next 7 years :p.
 

Nydus

Member
May 6, 2014
661
473
545
Vram comment in this nails it. People are obsessed with it.

Exactly. Sometimes the cold hard truth of Techjesus is a bitter pill to swallow but i damn well trust him.

PS: Amazon still not shipped the card. Delivery was pushed back again to tomorrow evening. On the other would i suspect that they would have canceled the order by now if something was faulty. :/

I'm expecting 999$, but I think it will be worth it. 3080 is really fast and 20GB model should run games for the next 7 years :p.
Who keeps a GPU for 7 years??? Most people on this forum will struggle to keep the card for 2 years lol
 
Last edited:

waylo

Member
Jan 7, 2018
682
1,176
490
I think you're heavily underestimating AMD this time. More importantly, you're factually wrong about ray tracing. DLSS alternative, they might or might not have it. I created a thread about why AMD 6000 series should not be underestimated... If interested...;


nVidia wouldn't have made the 3000 series 'good value' (which to me is actually not really good value) for no reason... Some people posting on Techspot said it best regarding Ampere's value... I'll quote them here...

"It's amazes me just how successfully that nVidia has manipulated their customer base. Their first step was to release the 2080 at $700 which was barely a performance jump over the GTX 1080 Ti (which was also $700). Step two was to release the 2080 Ti which was a made their customers so used to getting screwed over by pricing the 2080 Ti at $1200, that pricing the 3080 at $700 (where the 2080 Ti should have been in the first place and where the 3080 Ti should be priced instead of the 3080), nVidia has made its customer base extremely happy to get screwed over.

Let's look at the pricing progression, shall we?

MSRP of GTX 280 $649
MSRP of GTX 480 $499
MSRP of GTX 580 $499
MSRP of GTX 680 $499
MSRP of GTX 780 $649
MSRP of GTX 780 Ti $699 <- Top-tier Ti line at $699
MSRP of GTX 980 Ti $699 <- Top-tier Ti line at $699
MSRP of GTX 1080 Ti $699 <- Top-tier Ti line at $699
MSRP of RTX 2080 $699 <- Top-tier NON-Ti line at $699
MSRP of RTX 2080 Ti $1199 <- Top-tier Ti line at $1200?!?!?!
MSRP of RTX 3080 $699 <- Top-tier NON-Ti line at $699 (just like RTX 20)
MSRP of RTX 3080 Ti $1199 <- Top-tier NON-Ti line at $699 (just like RTX 20)
MSRP of RTX 3090 $1499 <- Still way more expensive than the Ti

So, nVidia has conditioned the sheep to suddenly accept a $500 jump in price for the top-tier Ti line from $699 to $1199 and the non-Ti from $499 to $649. Don't tell me it's inflation because the cost of the top-tier card was between $500 and $649 for FIVE GENERATIONS (at LEAST ten years). Don't tell me that it's inflation because the IBM PC model 5150 was $2000 in 1984 and we're not paying $12000 for entire PCs that are not even in the same performance universe as that old IBM. Tech is supposed to get cheaper over time with new tech being the same price as the old was (or LESS not more). Here we have nVidia finding a way around that to charge people even more and more money when they shouldn't be (they don't have to after all) and people are CELEBRATING THIS? Seriously? "

And...

"I wanted to point out that this isn't as good as nVidia makes it out to be because a lot of people have short memories. Is this good? Yes and no because good is relative. Pascal was a much better launch for its time and it's not even close. That GTX 1080 Ti was perhaps the best high-end video card value that I've ever seen. That thing is still a monster today and Pascal should be the benchmark against which all nVidia launches are compared, not Turing.

I just want people to temper their emotional response of euphoria (and believe me, I get it) and remember that this isn't really all that great. Sure. it's just great compared to how horrible Turing was but it's still pretty bad compared to how great Pascal was. Pascal was a GIGANTIC LEAP from Kepler and the prices remained THE SAME, as they should have.

How long did we suffer with Intel sandbagging because AMD's FX wasn't up to scratch but were too busy being happy about the little incremental improvements that Intel made? We were so preoccupied with how much better Devil's Canyon was compared to Ivy Bridge that we didn't realise what Intel was doing to us until after Ryzen launched. We needed AMD to wake us up and it's because we couldn't see the forest for the trees. We need to be a little bit more cynical and a little less naive, even though that's not always fun (actually it never really is). Yes, Ampere is better than Turing and nVidia wants us to focus on that because it's to their advantage if we do so. However, if we forget how good that it can be or fail to notice the bigger picture and the path that we seem to be on, do you know what that makes us?

Boiled frogs my friend. boiled frogs. I don't want that for any of us, even if I have to be a bit of a killjoy to point it out. "
This is said every time. "Just you wait, AMD is going to kill it this time".

They won't. I hope they do. I miss the days when I could buy a 4870 and compete with Nvidia. Unfortunately that was over a decade ago. Ever since it's been a series of disappointments. I'm not holding my breath.