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[Krappadizzle]

Other than the occasional odd Ghost House in the previous games, including and mostly Rainbow Roads. Most of the Mario games are pretty damn easy. I don't really have a problem with how much they are scaling for younger demographics to be honest as that's their primary target audience to begin with.

That said, Wonder still has a few moments of challenge and even then, I'm more interested in the charm, surprise and music with these games, and especially in a co-op setting with the wife or family than I am outright with the challenge.

And I love challenge in my games in general, I think most games across the bored are too easy. But there are tons of great platformers with awesome challenge that are available releasing all the time.

 

[Guerilla Munch]

I remember Mario RPG being easy as fuck when I first bought it, i didn't die once, but I have fond memories of it regardless.

2D Mario (post-NES) has always been easy aside from the bonus levels. 3D Mario is more challenging, and Metroid/DK are good options for challenging side scrollers.

Part of the issue I think is that enthusiasts have been playing Mario for ~40 years and the gameplay has become muscle memory. Casual/new players don't even hold down the run button the entire time.

 

[mrcroket]

No, you're 100% right ...it's not that we've just gotten better at games, Nintendo games like Mario used to be much more difficult, yet still able to be completed by kids who stuck with it. These new games are nerfed exponentially. It's a farce to see the media trumping it up so much while ignoring an issue as big as this.

It's very strange times we're in with this "accessibility" craze having reached a peak. This started a long time ago but it keeps getting worse. Games should have accessibility "features", that doesn't mean the game should be SO accessible as to remove such a vital aspect to the typical gamer..that of challenge.

It's funny because these games review and sell very well but if you look at people's comments there are MANY people who are just as disappointed by Mario Wonders easiness.

I've changed my mentality a lot in the last few years, it's okay that there are easy games, where you can advance without getting stuck in the same area for hours or having to make 40 attempts to progress. And I think that in that aspect nintendo games are great, they offer you a varied experience, with an accessible difficulty that rewards exploration and experimentation and allow you to progress in the game even playing only a little while per day.

If you want difficult games there are many out there, especially since souls-like exists.

 

[Faust]

Mario games have never been challenging, aside from lost levels. Mario RPG has always been mindlessly easy. If you want difficulty games, Nintendo still has them. I remember quite a few folks in this thread were complaining about the difficulty of Metroid Dread and Tropical Freeze for example.

 

[Comandr]

I think it's hilarious that everyone is blaming easy modes on kids when in my experience and anecdotes, it's the exact opposite case. Kids and teens are far more likely to tolerate hard modes than adults, who eventually age out of them because work and the additional responsibilities that comes with age is hard enough and they just want to relax when they get home or get an hour or two away from the kids and wife. Considering the ESA says the average "gamer" is something like 35 and that number continues to rise year after year, I don't think that's a coincidence.

I'm in my mid 30s and have absolutely no interest in anything remotely difficult in games anymore (the only exception maybe being higher difficulty bots in RTS games), which was nowhere near the case 15 years ago.

Even on easy mode, games are pretty damn long these days which means developers don't need to artificially inflate their length by making them ridiculously hard like they were in the 90s and 80s.

It’s this. This is the actual truth. Kids today are no less capable of playing hard games than they were before. The real issue is engagement and time.

I’m married with a job and a family, and the time I have available to play games is dwindling rapidly. For a game to be artificially difficult just to pad time like they were in the 80s and 90s just wouldn’t work for me today. I’d just stop playing.

I’m no stranger to playing games on story mode. My masculinity isn’t so fragile that I have to be ashamed of playing a game on anything less than ultra hard either.

For me, a game that doesn’t respect the player’s time is one of the worst gaming sins today. I suspect the reason for so many games to lack difficulty these days is because either the press or anyone might just give up and do something else if pushed too hard.

The fact in SMRPG your timed hits are much more weighty affects the gameplay a lot and now you are even given a visual cue on when to do it. A perfect timed hit will hit all enemies. Completely block all damage from almost any attack. The more you do these timed hits, you also build a combo meter that gives you additional benefits as it increases. Then finally once you do enough of these you’ll fill up an ultimate meter and can unleash a special attack or benefit with different properties. A skilled player then will just completely steamroll almost any fight.

All of these go a long way to alter the game’s original difficulty, which was already not very high. I suppose you could elect not to do any timed hits or anything. Just like you can also choose to play nuzlocke pokemon. But that’s clearly not the way the game was designed these days.

I definitely think more games should have harder modes for people that want them. And they’re unlocked right from the beginning rather than making you go through a whole campaign to get there.

 

[hyperbertha]

LOL go play a Souls game. Nintendo is for everybody, not just "hardcore" gamers

Mario games used to be challenging. It's this accessibility bullshit that's causing games to be piss easy. Games should never be easy. Challenge is the point. People who cant put in the effort to get good shouldn't game.

 

[hyperbertha]

The game is brilliant and anything but lazy. You can choose to not take any mushrooms and play the whole game as small Mario where one hit equal death. You can not touch the midway flag poll, and you can not use any badges, and some of the levels would be considered quite difficult for some players.

It's a goty contender for a reason. Have you even played it?

Goty contender by games journalists that can't beat the tutorial from cuphead?

 

[Krappadizzle]

Mario games have never been challenging, aside from lost levels. Mario RPG has always been mindlessly easy. If you want difficulty games, Nintendo still has them. I remember quite a few folks in this thread were complaining about the difficulty of Metroid Dread and Tropical Freeze for example.

Tropical Freeze is a great example.

 

[mrcroket]

Mario games used to be challenging. It's this accessibility bullshit that's causing games to be piss easy. Games should never be easy. Challenge is the point. People who cant put in the effort to get good shouldn't game.

I'm sorry but this is a stupid statement, games don't have to be a challenge, but an interactive and fun experience (here the fun depends on what each one looks for in a game), this is a thought inherited from the arcades from the 80s and 90s where the games were designed to be difficult, so that people had to spend money to keep playing and players were rotating quickly.

 

[tomato shrub]

The game is brilliant and anything but lazy. You can choose to not take any mushrooms and play the whole game as small Mario where one hit equal death. You can not touch the midway flag poll, and you can not use any badges, and some of the levels would be considered quite difficult for some players.

It's a goty contender for a reason. Have you even played it?

Oh, I remember this argument from back in the day when 3D combat in Zelda games became gradually more braindead. "Just don't pick up the heart containers if you want challenge".

And it's still dumb. Hey, just play with one hand and get your challenge that way! Because asking developers for a well rounded balance would be crazy!

 

[Kataploom]

BOTW and TOTK are way more difficult than any previous Zelda entry, I still remember people complaining about difficulty a lot when BOTW came out.

Mario still has the extra levels and late game levels that are quite challenging... I get some don't like this approach but it feels more natural than "hard modes" that only make enemies spongy and game more tedious... I'd be up for a 1-hit game over mode though, one where you receive any damage and die and without mid level checkpoints.

 

[hyperbertha]

I'm sorry but this is a stupid statement, games don't have to be a challenge, but an interactive and fun experience (here the fun depends on what each one looks for in a game), this is a thought inherited from the arcades from the 80s and 90s where the games were designed to be difficult, so that people had to spend money to keep playing and players were rotating quickly.

Nah there were plenty of non arcade games that used to be plenty challenging. Vast majority were. I really can't see where the fun is without challenged. It will be literally going through the motions.

 

[tomato shrub]

I'm sorry but this is a stupid statement, games don't have to be a challenge, but an interactive and fun experience (here the fun depends on what each one looks for in a game), this is a thought inherited from the arcades from the 80s and 90s where the games were designed to be difficult, so that people had to spend money to keep playing and players were rotating quickly.

At the core, games are about problem solving. Finding solutions to puzzles, managing an army or a farm, overcoming parcours in platformers or foes in shooting games. Take these things out with NPCs that spoil solutions, glowing breadcrumbs that take away the exploration, and Nintendo's shitty "super guide" solutions, "games" become nothing more than interactive wallpapers. Or glorified QTEs. And since about a year it has become worse than ever. Nintendo started this with Wii, but now it's everywhere. It's hard for me to even identify something like Final Fantasy 16 as a real game anymore, all you do is hold your stick towards an icon and then do some button mashing at the destination - with almost no chance of failure, because every boss has like three checkpoints, so what is the point to any of this? Just make a Netflix anime.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Oh, I remember this argument from back in the day when 3D combat in Zelda games became gradually more braindead. "Just don't pick up the heart containers if you want challenge".

And it's still dumb. Hey, just play with one hand and get your challenge that way! Because asking developers for a well rounded balance would be crazy!

Why do you guys attack dev choice when it's on this side, but defend it when it's on the other side like what FS does? How is it any different?

 

[Happosai]

I was going to say we've eliminated challenge from Souls or Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne (remaster)? Never found anything 'easy' about either one of those.

 

[mrcroket]

Nah there were plenty of non arcade games that used to be plenty challenging. Vast majority were. I really can't see where the fun is without challenged. It will be literally going through the motions.

Because you are someone who seeks challenge in video games, and that's not bad thing, but to say that video games have to be a challenge is to close yourself to what you want and what you like.

At the core, games are about problem solving. Finding solutions to puzzles, managing an army or a farm, overcoming parcours in platformers or foes in shooting games. Take these things out with NPCs that spoil solutions, glowing breadcrumbs that take away the exploration, and Nintendo's shitty "super guide" solutions, "games" become nothing more than interactive wallpapers. Or glorified QTEs. And since about a year it has become worse than ever. Nintendo started this with Wii, but now it's everywhere. It's hard for me to even identify something like Final Fantasy 16 as a real game anymore, all you do is hold your stick towards an icon and then do some button mashing at the destination - with almost no chance of failure, because every boss has like three checkpoints, so what is the point to any of this? Just make a Netflix anime.

There are many simple and entertaining games and experiences that have no difficulty, and that would not be possible in another medium, and people who enjoy those experiences.

 

[tomato shrub]

There are many simple and entertaining games and experiences that have no difficulty, and that would not be possible in another medium, and people who enjoy those experiences.

Video games are their own medium, but ultimately, they are still ...games - like chess, Risk, Mastermind, Sudoku and so on. Competition and problem solving is inherent to games. That makes them different from toys. Puzzle games where NPCs tell you how to solve the puzzles, turnbased games like Mario RPG Remake you can't lose because there's a thousand safety nets. What is the point of this? There is none. Unless you are a toddler who is satisfied when colours blink after you touch something. I would've blamed current society for fostering manbabies who oppose any sort of challenge. On the other hand, Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3 - games with very high player agency - somehow managed to break records. So I blame greedy developers and publishers who now put pseudo-accessibility (because this isn't about real accessibility) above better game quality.

Why do you guys attack dev choice when it's on this side, but defend it when it's on the other side like what FS does? How is it any different?

Funny how FS games are portrayed as this hardcore torture, when they really just have traditional difficulty. Also, anyone who defines FS only by their difficulty is clueless. They are among the last games with truly outstanding and satisfying level design. And that's because the devs take their settings as game makers seriously. They don't take the cheap way of showing you the way with map markers and holding your hand through fights with god modes and endless checkpoints. They gotta work extra hard on their level design, which needs to work without such cheap tricks. And it shows, because at the end of the day, From games still have an extremly high finish rate.

 

[Astral Dog]

theyve gone full play school since the success of the wii with casual players, the gamecube was the last "hardcore" nintendo console

Nintendo has always been for "everyone" ,if anything the Switch cathers more at core gamers when compared to Wii and Wii U, plus games for GameCube like Zelda Wind Waker and Twilight princess were considered stupid easy when they released, they added difficulty options in the remasters(and they do make a difference, replaying Ocarina of Time feels different when Link can actually be killed by the enemies )

most games/platformers were designed to be challenging back in the day, yes Mario took a decline in terms of difficulty, Yoshi as well but there are still plenty of games Nintendo offers with difficulty options that provide decent challenge: Fire Emblem,Metroid,Xenoblade,Bayonetta,Astral Chain,Donkey Kong(although there hasn't a new game since Tropical Freeze)i haven't played Pikmin 4 but Pikmin 3 wasn't a walk in the park,and third partie games that arrived as exclusives like Monster Hunter Rise and SMT V

I believe the reason nobody mentions the above games is because few people actually play them when compared to Nintendo's mainstream series

 

[Poplin]

you're getting older. New Mario Wii U felt like a cakewalk when it came out, and people were saying the same thing. Wonder gets pretty obscenely difficult in the special stages, nintendo has this approach where the mainline is always easy so kids can beat it, but 100% completion is tough.

Also, try playing wonder without the badges, odds are youre also feeling its "easier" because they added so many more quality of life options. but like others said, if youre looking for ultra challenging gameplay, nintendo just aint it. never was, thats why they have as wide an appeal as they do.

 

[Dacvak]

I feel like a vast majority of Nintendo games have always been pretty easy, save for a few outliers. I guess I’ve never really noticed or cared since they’re usually so much fun.

But I think most modern games are pretty easy, with the exception being games that are explicitly designed around the fact that they’re difficult, like the Souls games.

 

[Zelduh]

I think the difficulty is fine but the problem is that any RPG with any remote difficulty whatsoever is always met with "the game is forcing me to grind, FUCK THIS" because people will always bash their heads against battles brute forcing them and if they can't win they think they need to grind for 1000 hours even though it's not necessary, so they'll complain endlessly about it

 

[Phase]

I agree wholeheartedly that their IP's are far too easy nowadays. At least Metroid still provides a challenge.

 

[Hudo]

Because Miyamoto hates you in particular.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Play Super Mario Wonder without Badges. The game becomes more challenging.

Maybe try BotW or TotK on Hero Mode where one hit spells doom or weather conditions will make you pay attention and bring a surplus of potions/food/ammo.

You can easily make these games quite challenging.

And when I see Souls games come up those games can be cheesed too if you use farming exploits to level up with little risk or effort. So don't act like Souls games are hard. And they get easier after every NG+.

 

[Phase]

Well... if FS for instance ONLY caters to one group in one way, you can expect others to do the exact opposite. Truth is, everyone should cater to... everyone these days. There's no excuse not to really.

Yes, if you want to homogenize the whole industry and produce bland brainless products. They better make sure to tell all of their players to hold left stick to move in the tutorials. Wouldn't want them to be confused and give up without even a semblance of trial and error. I guess it's smart they're doing it because most people are brainless automatons these days.

 

[BlackTron]

Play Super Mario Wonder without Badges. The game becomes more challenging.

But it also becomes less interesting and less dynamic. And therefore less fun, which is the entire point of extra challenge. Ideally, you should be carefully selecting which badge to use for a given section because you want the help, not removing moves to make the game easier.

I don't think every Mario needs to be SMB3 level where many never conquered world 8 (or 7 for that matter). But it shouldn't be a complete cakewalk either. World was about perfect. Wonder is substantially easier than even that, which is unfortunate.

All of these go a long way to alter the game’s original difficulty, which was already not very high. I suppose you could elect not to do any timed hits or anything. Just like you can also choose to play nuzlocke pokemon. But that’s clearly not the way the game was designed these days.

Same deal with RPG. Sure you can ignore timed hits, but if you like this game, chances are you like mechanics like timed hits. And if you find yourself under pressure in battle, successfully landing timings to get yourself out of it is part of what makes it rewarding, and part of the difficulty. There are new mechanics at your disposal that make it easier, AND a new easier mode. Would it have killed them to add a harder mode too? Right now it's loaded with options to make it easier and no way to reach parity with the already easy SNES game. I'd say it's 20% easier than that thanks to the new stuff, in normal mode.

A hard mode would really give the space needed to enjoy the new mechanics properly so I'm hoping it unlocks post-game. Should have been there from the start. If it doesn't even exist, that's honestly just pretty bad for this remake.

 

[Ozzie666]

It's 2023 and we just got one of the best 2D Mario platform games of all-time. A high quality 2D platformer that can compete with Super Mario World. The thirst was real and it's selling well.
In that same year, we get a remake of Super Mario RPG, flaws and all. Pure magic.

These games are relics from a better era of gaming, the audience is older and smarter (debatable). These games are mentally easier now. Even during the NES hay days, when developers like Konami or Tecmo werer releasing insanely difficult games like Contro or Ninja Gaiden. Nintendo used the same play book for Mario, keep it simple, entertaining and fun. The one exception I recall was Mike Tyson punch out. But I don't ever recall Mario being hard core difficult.

 

[Laieon]

Video games are their own medium, but ultimately, they are still ...games - like chess, Risk, Mastermind, Sudoku and so on. Competition and problem solving is inherent to games.

So is casual experiences when not everyone wants a challenging one. Competition and problem solving might be inherent to games, but that doesn't mean it has to be an extremely intense competition or ask the player anything more difficult than "Guess Who?".

Don't want Chess? Play Checkers. Is that still not your jam? Play Connect Four.

Don't want Risk (and that's a casual game for babies unlike a real hardcore game for hardcore men with big penises like The Campaign for North Africa)? Play Battleship.

Sudoku has varying levels of puzzles.

Candyland sells something like a million copies a year. Jenga sells almost 4x that.

The demand for casual games has always been there. Balder's Gate and Elden Ring might be setting records, but (since this is a Nintendo thread), so did Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, entries in a series that arguably gets more and more casual with each entry.

and satisfying level design.

"satisfying" is entirely subjective though.

Probably but the new mechanics ruin the challenge in that mode too. Someone said you can now swap in anyone in your party at any time.

This is just BAD game design. No balance. That's the same thing they did with Wonder. The game itself, the level design, etc is not too different from any past 2d Mario but now timers are removed and you can keep an extra power up on hand at ALL TIMES which is reduculous, unbalanced, challenge killing stuff.

Why not allow the player to turn off these "accessibility options"? If accessibility is what they're going for it should go both ways!

I agree with this though, options should be available to both players, and hardcore modes should be unlocked from the very start.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

So basically if you want you can play on it's original difficulty?

Probably but the new mechanics ruin the challenge in that mode too. Someone said you can now swap in anyone in your party at any time.

This is just BAD game design. No balance. That's the same thing they did with Wonder. The game itself, the level design, etc is not too different from any past 2d Mario but now timers are removed and you can keep an extra power up on hand at ALL TIMES which is reduculous, unbalanced, challenge killing stuff.

Why not allow the player to turn off these "accessibility options"? If accessibility is what they're going for it should go both ways!

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

It's 2023 and we just got one of the best 2D Mario platform games of all-time. A high quality 2D platformer that can compete with Super Mario World. The thirst was real and it's selling well.
In that same year, we get a remake of Super Mario RPG, flaws and all. Pure magic.

These games are relics from a better era of gaming, the audience is older and smarter (debatable). These games are mentally easier now. Even during the NES hay days, when developers like Konami or Tecmo werer releasing insanely difficult games like Contro or Ninja Gaiden. Nintendo used the same play book for Mario, keep it simple, entertaining and fun. The one exception I recall was Mike Tyson punch out. But I don't ever recall Mario being hard core difficult.

I'm not asking for insane difficulty just don't remove it entirely by forcing mechanics such as being able to hold an extra power up on hand at all times or, removing timers in OPTIONAL CHALLENGE ROOMS lol

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Tropical Freeze is a great example.

Yes that is a challenging game. That and Metroid Dread are the only challenging Nintendo games released all gen. Advance Wars reboot too but that's a strategy game.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

So is casual experiences when not everyone wants a challenging one. Competition and problem solving might be inherent to games, but that doesn't mean it has to be an extremely intense competition or ask the player anything more difficult than "Guess Who?".

Don't want Chess? Play Checkers. Is that still not your jam? Play Connect Four.

Don't want Risk (and that's a casual game for babies unlike a real hardcore game for hardcore men with big penises like The Campaign for North Africa)? Play Battleship.

Sudoku has varying levels of puzzles.

Candyland sells something like a million copies a year. Jenga sells almost 4x that.

The demand for casual games has always been there. Balder's Gate and Elden Ring might be setting records, but (since this is a Nintendo thread), so did Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, entries in a series that arguably gets more and more casual with each entry.



"satisfying" is entirely subjective though.



I agree with this though, options should be available to both players, and hardcore modes should be unlocked from the very start.

Why twist what people are saying due to your apparent insecurity regarding difficulty. This isn't about comparing "e dicks" lol. All people want is give us the option too to turn off certain features that are removing challenge. Mario Wonder and Mario RPG are perfect examples.

Mario RPG is supposed to be extremely faithful to the original according to reviews....except for the fact that they altered mechanics amd removed challenge. That doesn't have to be if they'd allow us the OPTION to not have to use these mechanics. It's almost like they're punishing people who do want a challenge.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Goty contender by games journalists that can't beat the tutorial from cuphead?

Because the number one criteria for any goty game is challenge?

 

[FoxMcChief]

Options are a good thing. Sony has a ton of options to make all their exclusives way easier too. They’ve even gotten rid of difficulty trophies in all their first party games.

Maybe it’s because I’m older, and I give way less of a fuck. People care too much about stupid shit.

 

[MagnesD3]

Mass Audiences being lazy are to blame, they dont even craft optional difficulty into the games anymore dumb people will complain its too difficult to 100%. At this point id rather every game have an easy mode for people who dont want to grow so people who actually want to play the game can play a normal thats an intentionally well balanced experience.

 

[Laieon]

That is a common problem of almost all games.

It must be almost impossible to balance a game with an op character and still give a big sense of progression, some games do that better than others but very few get it right.

Atomic heart was pretty easy on max difficulty when you metabolize how the combat work and when you unlock the double buzzsaw mace and telekinesis, i haven't played the others but one was a super realistic simulation (so bounded to be hard by definition), the other is an old school shooter (same as before) and the third one is a survival (so again, a genre that is based on challenge).

Most normal games are piss easy nowadays, especially open worlds (most of the time even on max difficulty).

This is one of the few things I think AI could play massive role in with dynamic difficulty settings. I think people are just naturally biased when it comes to "difficulty" and what constitutes easy/medium/hard is entirely subjective. I also think that, unlike studios like FromSoft that approach difficulty as more of an art form (I have no interest in that art form, but I'm not going to ask for it to go), most just approach difficulty as a checkbox for the consumer with little thought into what that feels or looks like; which is why you get games that start out hard but by the end are incredibly easy, or even something like difficulty spikes where something become stupid hard out of nowhere.

Just the fact we have people in this very thread saying that (again, just to use them as an example), FromSoft is everything from challenging to really not that bad shows that we as humans can't collectively agree on what "difficulty" even means, and since everyone's experiences and preferences are going to be different, might as well let that aspect become as personal and tweak-able as possible (unless, again, it's something like FromSoft that actually puts some thought and critical thinking into why they don't have an easy mode).

Yes, if you want to homogenize the whole industry

Accounting for different preferences and playstyles is the exact opposite of this.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Options are a good thing. Sony has a ton of options to make all their exclusives way easier too. They’ve even gotten rid of difficulty trophies in all their first party games.

Maybe it’s because I’m older, and I give way less of a fuck. People care too much about stupid shit.

Then why are you posting here if you don't care and think it's stupid? I don't think it's stupid for people to want games to be great. That's passion. If challenge is what's important to people to be engaged that's something worth lobbying for. Developers used to understand this but they've been ditching it totally. Accessibility should be about options, right?

 

[FoxMcChief]

Then why are you posting here if you don't care and think it's stupid? I don't think it's stupid for people to want games to be great. That's passion. If challenge is what's important to people to be engaged that's something worth lobbying for. Developers used to understand this but they've been ditching it totally. Accessibility should be about options, right?

Get off my lawn.

 

[Phase]

Accounting for different preferences and playstyles is the exact opposite of this.

This may be true, but everyone cannot cater to everyone. One dev team is going to specialize. They can't cater to everyone unless they use smaller teams working on individual projects all at the same time. This isn't how things are currently being done in AAA with hundreds working on one project, and so it means homogenization in that space (as we are seeing).

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

This is one of the few things I think AI could play massive role in with dynamic difficulty settings. I think people are just naturally biased when it comes to "difficulty" and what constitutes easy/medium/hard is entirely subjective. I also think that, unlike studios like FromSoft that approach difficulty as more of an art form (I have no interest in that art form, but I'm not going to ask for it to go), most just approach difficulty as a checkbox for the consumer with little thought into what that feels or looks like; which is why you get games that start out hard but by the end are incredibly easy, or even something like difficulty spikes where something because stupid hard out of nowhere.

Just the fact we have people in this very thread saying that (again, just to use them as an example), FromSoft is everything from challenging to really not that bad shows that we as humans can't collectively agree on what "difficulty" even means, and since everyone's experiences and preferences are going to be different, might as well let that aspect become and personal and tweak-able as possible (unless, again, it's something like FromSoft that actually puts some thought and critical thinking into why they don't have an easy mode).

That brings up a good point. Crafting a game with a proper difficulty curve that is both accessible to the masses but still rewarding for the "hardcore" (I don't believe I'm "hardcore" because I'm not even that good at a lot of games-i just want to be challenged more) is probably more time consuming and requires more skill to properly make. That's why I see this is bad game design. It requires more careful design and play testing to do this right ...aka something Nintendo used to do throughout the 80's, 90's and 2010's. This is a modern phenomena. Many more devs from those earlier periods had a resume that included Arcade games which is a lost art outside of the indie made shoot em up scene.

 

[BlackTron]

Options are a good thing. Sony has a ton of options to make all their exclusives way easier too. They’ve even gotten rid of difficulty trophies in all their first party games.

I agree 200%, but options should not be limited to ways to make it easier. There should be more challenging options too. If your options are "Cakewalk" and "Baby", we have a problem.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I agree 200%, but options should not be limited to ways to make it easier. There should be more challenging options too. If your options are "Cakewalk" and "Baby", we have a problem.

Ehhh. Don’t like it, move on. Isn’t that thdd we same approach the Souls folk have? Too challenging, move on.

I guess I’m on the side of the developer that wants to make the games they want to make. If they want them easy, cool. They want them hard, cool. I guess I’m just over that everything needs to cater to everyone.

 

[BlackTron]

Ehhh. Don’t like it, move on. Isn’t that thdd we same approach the Souls folk have? Too challenging, move on.

I guess I’m on the side of the developer that wants to make the games they want to make. If they want them easy, cool. They want them hard, cool. I guess I’m just over that everything needs to cater to everyone.

I'm playing Mario RPG remake and it's even easier than the SNES game, which was already easy. And they added an even easier mode than that, but no hard mode!

I thought you liked options but ok, you persuaded me and I'm going to join your camp now. Maybe, if the game is too hard for you and doesn't have any options to make it easier. You should just move on. Games don't need to cater to everyone, after all.

 

[Mythoclast]

So-called "hardcore" gamers are the minority. You'd be surprised about the amount of people that will just drop a game with the minimum frustration, including my sister and my girlfriend. The majority of people don't have a sense of challenge or achievement when playing games, they just want to have fun. Nintendo caters their games to these people.

I don't see anything wrong with having an easy mode with every single game.

 

[Mythoclast]

I'm playing Mario RPG remake and it's even easier than the SNES game, which was already easy. And they added an even easier mode than that, but no hard mode!

I thought you liked options but ok, you persuaded me and I'm going to join your camp now. Maybe, if the game is too hard for you and doesn't have any options to make it easier. You should just move on. Games don't need to cater to everyone, after all.

From a business perspective, they kinda do though. Specially with Nintendo.

 

[BlackTron]

From a business perspective, they kinda do though. Specially with Nintendo.

I think the context of my comment went over your head.

 

[Hugare]

Thank you, OP

One of the reasons why I hated Mario Odyssey. It's too damn easy.

Compare it to the likes of Super Mario World, Mario 64, Sunshine or even Galaxy

I also heard good things about 3D Land. Played some on my 3DS and the game is piss easy. Same with 3D World.

Last platformer from Nintendo that was actually challenging was Tropical Freeze, many years ago. And they added piss easy mode on the remake.

A good workaround is Yoshi in Wonder, since its basically easy mode. But still, main game is still too easy.

 

[Mythoclast]

I think the context of my comment went over your head.

Hahaha, now that I actually read in detail, I kinda wanna delete my comment.

 

[Muffdraul]

I played through FFVII, VIII and IX so many times back in the day on PSX, it was nice to play them remastered on PS4 with invincibility and shit, so I could just breeze through them quickly. purely for some nostalgic feels. Not that the originals were what you'd call hard anyway.

With that in mind, I have no problem with whatever they've done to Super Mario RPG remastered. I can sympathize with people playing it now the first time who don't want it to be a cakewalk (which it already was, my god) but that's what they get for not being born soon enough to play it on SNES back in 1996. I only played through it once when it was new, and years later I had to scratch my head when all of a sudden I was hearing people saying it was a "masterpiece..." I don't recall thinking it was anything special. But I do look forward to nostalgically breezing through it again soon.

 

[Pejo]

Mario games have never been challenging, aside from lost levels. Mario RPG has always been mindlessly easy. If you want difficulty games, Nintendo still has them. I remember quite a few folks in this thread were complaining about the difficulty of Metroid Dread and Tropical Freeze for example.

Yep, I remember when Dread released, the amount of people getting filtered by EMMIs were numerous and frequent.

Not on GAF of course though, we're all skilled gamers here.