• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)

Sebmugi

Member
New up date in GT sport is much beter for rain effects ^^ (Bezy shoot from resetera)

3jz4ncQ.gif


jpBKIfO.gif


a3GranTurismoSPORT2019.png


4eGranTurismoSPORT2019.png


946GranTurismoSPORT2019.png
 
The effects in GTS appear to have greatly improved after that update, the windscreen effects are probably the best I've seen since Driveclub. There are some inconsistencies I hope they iron out before GT7. The Challenger's headlights aren't reflecting off the wet pavement at all, nor are the Porsche's tail lamps. I'm wondering if it's because the two are in daylight and the car's lights are just fake light sources unless it's a night race. I'd also be interested to see the quality of the reflections outside photomode as well. Even in your shots the resolution appears to differ, with one of the Kart images having a Minecraft version of things in the reflection. I'm not slamming your shots, as you take some of the nicest shots I've seen but there is a huge difference between both images.

I thought I'd grab some Project Cars 2 shots off my PC to add to the mix here. These are in-game, HUD off (I hate using the clunky photomode in the game anyways). This is with my own reshade settings. This is just one of the reasons why I wish GT could come to the PC, and why I really wish Microsoft would pull their heads out of their asses and let people use mods in their PC offerings. I could fix most of the visual issues in Forza 7 with a few tweaks and augment things they already do well, but they lock that shit up tight (unless I feel like a ban from their platforms). Project Cars 2 looks pretty rough outside photomode, but it can be fixed with reshade.

Though still rough around the edges, the weather system in Project Cars 2 is unmatched, even by Horizon 4 in several areas. Any of the massive number of tracks can have anything from a drizzle to an outright thunderstorm complete with lightning that casts shadows off the cars, or even varying levels of snow. All weather effects can happen at any game hour (night or day) and can even be set to random, or follow your local weather patterns. You want a sunny day to turn into a blizzard then into heavy fog? Do it. Just like Forza 7 puddles form throughout the race when it rains. On top of the really robust weather system, every car in the field runs headlights that cast a shadow. Missing from Horizon is of course the trees, bushes and grass that bend in the wind (as well as the ability to smash straight through them), and the reflection quality is significantly lower than either Horizon, Forza 7 or GTS.

Considering you can have a 32 car field on the track with the physics system this game is pushing, having a weather system this robust is pretty impressive.

Spectator
cqu9XlV.jpg


Spectator
v57PxlM.jpg


In-game
gvHQUYk.jpg


h4mjP5c.jpg


Rxnx4ZQ.jpg


tLlzlsx.jpg
 
Last edited:
LOL, I'm arguing with Super Metal Dave 64, he honestly believes Nintendo will Switch (pun intended) from the Tegra X1 to something more powerful because of how mobile processors are ahead hitting up to 2 TFlops. I argue that he's getting his hopes up for nothing, and it's best to wait for the Switch successor and see Nintendo's custom chip helped by Nvidia.

 

Sebmugi

Member
yes again each to his strengths and qualities and in the case of sport GT each up-dates significantly improves it.
In the case of reflections it's interesting with the photo mode, because the more you zoom on the reflections of a car in one of the few puddle of water, the more the reflection is fine even if the models are not as detailed as the original. and the more one de-zoom and the more it will pixelate
here are 2/3 examples

1570035976-20191002182138.jpg


1570035986-20191002182144.jpg


1570035997-20191002182151.jpg


I also feel that the management of the water spray has also been improved

GAjOayC.gif


I would try to make some shots or replay on the luminous reflest because nights is really a beautiful rendering ..
 

phil_t98

#SonyToo
yes again each to his strengths and qualities and in the case of sport GT each up-dates significantly improves it.
In the case of reflections it's interesting with the photo mode, because the more you zoom on the reflections of a car in one of the few puddle of water, the more the reflection is fine even if the models are not as detailed as the original. and the more one de-zoom and the more it will pixelate
here are 2/3 examples

1570035976-20191002182138.jpg


1570035986-20191002182144.jpg


1570035997-20191002182151.jpg


I also feel that the management of the water spray has also been improved

GAjOayC.gif


I would try to make some shots or replay on the luminous reflest because nights is really a beautiful rendering ..

the car and rain effects look great but there is something off about the buildings and I can't quite put my finger on it. they look a bit flat, like nothing reflecting or shadowing on the windows
 

scalman

Member
but then what it looks in picture captured and on move its different story, and then its mor important how all scene looks what atmosphere it brings, can be good looking as hell but you wont wanna look at it if its like gores in your way and you cant see road at all , like in Dirt 4

this looks amazing but to drive it and then in night its just hell , so its better just lower that in video settings... its too much hardcore
maxresdefault.jpg


like can you even drive this
maxresdefault.jpg


but i had that similar look in real life in car in heavy rain..you cant even drive so you just stop outside road and wait... so dirt 4 maybe showed it kind right
 
Last edited:

scalman

Member
i think GTS rain in photo mode kinda dissapears , no more drops seen in air... must be some filters just removing those or smt ... so whats in photo mode its not same whats seen while playing
 

Birdo

Banned
Jesus, GT's lighting engine is bonkers. I assume it's an in-house engine.

Imagine an open-world GT with those visuals :messenger_smiling_hearts:
 

urmie

Member
It's cool rain came to GTS finally, but it's barely noticeable on track. It's very light unlike other games that have varying degrees of rain. I guess this is all that could be mustered by PD to keep 60fps. Hope they add rain to the South courses of Tokyo. Great pics nonetheless.
 
Last edited:
It's really kind of unfair to put GTS up against the others with the weather system as it is currently. It's far more limited than the effects used in GT6. For starters, the rain is there or it isn't. It's just as static as the wet effect in used in GT4, but has a fresh coat of paint.

In Project Cars 2 any weather can occur at any point in the race on any track in the game. Forza 7 is more limited than that but still allows a chance of a pre-selected weather type on several tracks. If you choose rain at a 100% chance to occur at the race mid-point, that's when it happens. If you chose for it to be a 50% chance, it may or may not rain. Both games have the ability to start a race on a dry track, have a thunderstorm, and have a dry track again by race end.

Horizon is a different animal entirely. In Horizon 2, 3 and 4 the rain effect moves on it's own independent of your location and the effects exist within areas which follow cloud movement. For 3 and 4 specifically, the rain effects can be seen in the distance and you can literally chase storms. 4 specifically is server-based and everyone playing on that server is seeing the same weather patterns right down to where a rainbow might appear. I have screenshots where you can see the rain effect far in the distance. When those far off effects are between you and a light source at just the right angle, you get a rainbow, if multiple layers are hit just right you get a double rainbow or on occasion more.

Where the drone is, the rain hasn't hit.
bAF2q7b.jpg


After chasing the rainbow you realise the rainbow acts like a real one, You can't catch it, and if you lose the angle it dissipates. In this shot I've caught up to the light rainfall and the main rainbow has dissipated and is barely visible but the second ribbon has become stronger.

5JDMu3d.jpg


In Project Cars there are rainfall effects local to the camera location, but they look more like the rainfall effects in Driveclub than GTS or the Forza series. Especially nice is when the rain turns into snowfall, you get some pretty authentic looking sleet going on. To create a more intense downpour they use large, almost invisible textures that come down with the rain effects. When lightning strikes these also light up and It really intensifies the rainfall effects.

It's interesting that the quality of car reflections in GTS drop off so rapidly even in photomode. The car reflections are clearly cube-map based as you can see the car model in the reflection is considerably lower quality than the player car. There must be a significant performance hit for them to drop the resolution of the reflections so rapidly.

This is a drone shot from Horizon 4, which uses in-game visuals and models. I can pull indefinitely and the SSR reflection remains the same quality and resolution. The problem is of course that it's SSR only, so if I pan the camera down I can make the reflected car a convertible DB11.
V9kuAjh.jpg


As I posted earlier Forza 7 doesn't use SSR, instead using cube map reflections on the vehicle and duplicate assets for reflections in the water. These give you very accurately lit reflections compared to SSR, and don't get cut off if you lose the screen info like with SSR. Despite doing things this way, the reflection resolution remains the same regardless of distance and the game runs smoothly.
nSGHA9g.jpg


GTS PHOTO mode
FfrCNGQ.jpg


in-game
589Mr3Z.jpg


FM7
in-game
ffp8Dve.jpg



PHOTO mode
Fjict9n.jpg


FH4
in-game
DzAS8PM.jpg

PHOTO mode
fcryI0L.jpg




x9SyYjF.jpg

Unless I really want a straight on car shot with DOF effects and motion blur added, photomode in FH4 is almost pointless. I can usually get as good of a shot from a replay angle or using the drone, both of which use the same LOD model as in-game. The same can be said for the PC version of Project Cars 2, especially with reshade running (I also really don't like the camera controls). In Forza 7 there is a bump in car LOD from race to photomode, but it's minor, and there is a bigger bump when entering Forzavista mode. The same can be said for Horizon 4 when you go into Forzavista mode. Project Cars runs the full thing during gameplay, with a full damage model. GT loses it's entire interior when switching, as well as having the car models take a significant hit to poly counts, and share more in common with the AI controlled cars in Forza 7 (basic interiors and a much lower LOD). I'd argue that in-game, the player car models in Project Cars 2 , and both of the Forza series are superior in detail to GT Sport (not accuracy, just fidelity).

GT's replays also really shine compared to Project Cars 2, but especially Forza 7 and Horizon 4. The strategic use of DOF and camera angles to mask the areas the game falls short in makes the replays look significantly better than the in-game visuals. T10 really needs to step up their game with replays and trackside camera placement. They've never had it right. There has been the odd gem, like the Top Gear test track that mimicked the show's cameras and some tracks like Hockenheim have decent camera placement. They rely way too heavily on swaps to hood view or one of the panning/sweeping cameras which pulls the realism out of the replay. Horizon 4 uses a collection of static and sweeping cameras that really feel like they came out of the N64 era. No dynamic or hardpoint camera locations scattered around the map means replays in Horizon are pretty basic looking.

I wouldn't want the GT series to stop with the photomode stuff, as I find the images it produces really great, but I do wish they would put as much into the gameplay visuals.

I knew that Forza fanboy would reply. Lmao

What are you hoping to accomplish being so aggresive? At least he owns GTS and a PS4 and is contributing. If you disagree with what he posted, post something disproving it and contribute to the discussion. We're all in the same boat here, we like racing games, and there aren't nearly enough of them. Why would you dislike one of the few well-made racing games available? You are allowed to like more than one franchise. Why does someone that likes both enough to purchase them both get branded a fanboy of just one?

i think GTS rain in photo mode kinda dissapears , no more drops seen in air... must be some filters just removing those or smt ... so whats in photo mode its not same whats seen while playing

I think it's because time is stopped in photomode and like many other games, the raindrops are actually just points that a streak emanates from. They only appear as a long streak when in movement, but otherwise are invisible. I'm not 100% sure of that, but I have seen it in other games and have dealt with issues trying to work on a weather mod for Fallout 4 where my raindrops completely cover everything.
 

scalman

Member
Im still amazed by dynamic puddles in horizon 4 .when rain starts and you on mud track water appears in some places more then others and when rain stops after some time waters gone, found that just amazing for such scale game world, same as those deep puddles on forza 7 , where you can feel car aquaplaning on track, thats very different beast then just make track wet and look good.
Think someone who never tried that must do that and feel just how amazing it feels to drive car in that compare to just drive on kinda wer track in other games.

Wonder who will show its first next gen racing game trailer or gameplay forza or gt or maybe project cars... Its said be coming back to shift roots.
 
Last edited:
Im still amazed by dynamic puddles in horizon 4 .when rain starts and you on mud track water appears in some places more then others and when rain stops after some time waters gone, found that just amazing for such scale game world, same as those deep puddles on forza 7 , where you can feel car aquaplaning on track, thats very different beast then just make track wet and look good.
Think someone who never tried that must do that and feel just how amazing it feels to drive car in that compare to just drive on kinda wer track in other games.

Wonder who will show its first next gen racing game trailer or gameplay forza or gt or maybe project cars... Its said be coming back to shift roots.

I have a bad feeling T10 is going to show Forza at X019. There is a McLaren on the promo art for the event.

I also have a feeling it will just be called Forza Motorsport, with the game becoming a games as a service title. My biggest concern is that they make it a launch title like Forza 5 was, which could have used an extra year. Given that T10 said in July the game was only in planning stages, there's no way they have anything worth showing at the event. Unless they plan on completely faking it (remember how well that worked for Forza 3?). I really hope they take their time and give the environments some attention. Tracks like Brands Hatch are riddled with signs of "fuck it we're out of time, ship it". Trees floating in the air, places where the track and the collision aren't lined up so your car appears to be hovering, etc. I hope I'm wrong about all of it.

I'm not sure what's going on with Project Cars 3, but 2 stopped getting updates a while ago so I imagine they've been concentrating on that game. Either that or they're still planning on tanking the whole company with their "console" idea.

I think Polyphony is going to keep doing incremental updates to GT Sport until the PS5 launches. Even then, I don't know if they have a GT7 to even show. They do release their tech demonstrations, and they talk a big game, but that doesn't sell me a PS5.
 

benzy

Member
What are you hoping to accomplish being so aggresive? At least he owns GTS and a PS4 and is contributing. If you disagree with what he posted, post something disproving it and contribute to the discussion. We're all in the same boat here, we like racing games, and there aren't nearly enough of them. Why would you dislike one of the few well-made racing games available? You are allowed to like more than one franchise. Why does someone that likes both enough to purchase them both get branded a fanboy of just one?

I already did if you missed it above. I got Forza 6 and Horizon 4 and a One X, played 7 free trial for those comparison shots I made. It's easy to post bias shots for both games which is what I posted as devil's advocate to that user. Owning multiple games doesn't prove there isn't a bias, so let's not pretend like he doesn't only post highly bias shots to show one game in a poor light versus the other. I could do even more bias posts like that but it is pointless to me and a waste of time.

If you even look at that reply he made to me, he posted a photomode in-game shot of rain in Tokyo with an in-game gameplay in LeMans, I'm not even sure what that point was or what it contributes. If you think that is something else other than a triggered fanboy response then I'm not sure what to tell you lol.

Some track details in GTS aren't as good as other tracks. I've noticed pretty much every racing game has inconsistency issues, but I would say FH4 is probably the most consistent of the AAA racing titles.
 
Last edited:

benzy

Member
I had time to make a further detailed post to some of your observations busierdonkey.

In Forza 7 there is a bump in car LOD from race to photomode, but it's minor, and there is a bigger bump when entering Forzavista mode. The same can be said for Horizon 4 when you go into Forzavista mode. Project Cars runs the full thing during gameplay, with a full damage model. GT loses it's entire interior when switching, as well as having the car models take a significant hit to poly counts, and share more in common with the AI controlled cars in Forza 7 (basic interiors and a much lower LOD). I'd argue that in-game, the player car models in Project Cars 2 , and both of the Forza series are superior in detail to GT Sport (not accuracy, just fidelity).

This is false though. In fact it is possible to even find GTSport's AI car can have higher fidelity with higher polygon counts compared to F7 Ai cars (one x) and pcars2 (i played on Pro) during gameplay. This isn't something Hage Kamo would want to show you or even attempted.

Both taken during gameplay in bumper cam.
gtsf7comparisongtspo.png




GT's replays also really shine compared to Project Cars 2, but especially Forza 7 and Horizon 4. The strategic use of DOF and camera angles to mask the areas the game falls short in makes the replays look significantly better than the in-game visuals. T10 really needs to step up their game with replays and trackside camera placement. They've never had it right. There has been the odd gem, like the Top Gear test track that mimicked the show's cameras and some tracks like Hockenheim have decent camera placement. They rely way too heavily on swaps to hood view or one of the panning/sweeping cameras which pulls the realism out of the replay. Horizon 4 uses a collection of static and sweeping cameras that really feel like they came out of the N64 era. No dynamic or hardpoint camera locations scattered around the map means replays in Horizon are pretty basic looking.

I wouldn't want the GT series to stop with the photomode stuff, as I find the images it produces really great, but I do wish they would put as much into the gameplay visuals.

DOF and camera angles don't magically make the graphics look better than gameplay graphics. Forza 7 and pCars 2 replays also use DOF and a variety of different angles (pCars 2 red bull ring replay actually uses very similar angles to GTSport, based on the same real-world camera placements), but it's the overall lighting and shaders that makes those 2 games look considerably less realistic when compared to GTSport in both replay and gameplay. GTS replay angles also span multiple wide angles showcasing most of the track in addition to low angles for up close detail, so it's not really masking or hiding anything that you wouldn't see during gameplay camera.

gts replay
UITzngQ.gif


gts gameplay
g1aqdxi.gif



Plus, there's not much it needs to hide, the general environment details in GTS is better than both F7 and Pcars 2 when comparing the same tracks. You might find some obscure buildings in the circuit tracks that may have higher detail in f7 or pcars, but the overall detail of the track is better in GTS, and when it comes to making the visuals realistic, especially in motion, that heavily depends on good lighting, color reproduction, and shaders.

Forza 7
45fForzaMotorsport77320.png


GTSport
b28GranTurismoSPORT2018.png


GTSport gameplay if you don't believe photomode.
cUNjRwh.gif


GTSport lighting, material shaders, shadows, texture, and environments are all the exact same between gameplay and replay. Go into bumper cam and look around while you drive, it looks just as good as the replays. If you have a 1080p native tv, GTSport even has the high quality motion blur enabled during gameplay that's found in the replays.

gameplay
41GranTurismoSPORT2019.png


replay
e2fGranTurismoSPORT2019.png


Play both F7 and GTS and it's immediately apparent the lighting and materials puts GTS on a different level in realism, and it has nothing to do with the camera angles or DOF. This isn't even taking into account the better models.

GTS gameplay bumpercam
e4aGranTurismoSPORT2019.png


F7 replay
2a913201932113AM0vw4jx.png



gtsport gameplay - cockpit materials realistically reflect sky environment lighting, headlights realistically light up and reflect on the ai car even at a good distance.
291GranTurismoSPORT2.png


forza 7 gameplay
913201932132AMyy5sai.png
 
Last edited:

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
I had time to make a further detailed post to some of your observations busierdonkey.



This is false though. In fact it is possible to even find GTSport's AI car can have higher fidelity with higher polygon counts compared to F7 Ai cars (one x) and pcars2 (i played on Pro) during gameplay. This isn't something Hage Kamo would want to show you or even attempted.

Both taken during gameplay in bumper cam.
gtsf7comparisongtspo.png






DOF and camera angles don't magically make the graphics look better than gameplay graphics. Forza 7 and pCars 2 replays also use DOF and a variety of different angles (pCars 2 red bull ring replay actually uses very similar angles to GTSport, based on the same real-world camera placements), but it's the overall lighting and shaders that makes those 2 games look considerably less realistic when compared to GTSport in both replay and gameplay. GTS replay angles also span multiple wide angles showcasing most of the track in addition to low angles for up close detail, so it's not really masking or hiding anything that you wouldn't see during gameplay camera.

gts replay
UITzngQ.gif


gts gameplay
g1aqdxi.gif



Plus, there's not much it needs to hide, the general environment details in GTS is better than both F7 and Pcars 2 when comparing the same tracks. You might find some obscure buildings in the circuit tracks that may have higher detail in f7 or pcars, but the overall detail of the track is better in GTS, and when it comes to making the visuals realistic, especially in motion, that heavily depends on good lighting, color reproduction, and shaders.

Forza 7
45fForzaMotorsport77320.png


GTSport
b28GranTurismoSPORT2018.png


GTSport gameplay if you don't believe photomode.
cUNjRwh.gif


GTSport lighting, material shaders, shadows, texture, and environments are all the exact same between gameplay and replay. Go into bumper cam and look around while you drive, it looks just as good as the replays. If you have a 1080p native tv, GTSport even has the high quality motion blur enabled during gameplay that's found in the replays.

gameplay
41GranTurismoSPORT2019.png


replay
e2fGranTurismoSPORT2019.png


Play both F7 and GTS and it's immediately apparent the lighting and materials puts GTS on a different level in realism, and it has nothing to do with the camera angles or DOF. This isn't even taking into account the better models.

GTS gameplay bumpercam
e4aGranTurismoSPORT2019.png


F7 replay
2a913201932113AM0vw4jx.png



gtsport gameplay - cockpit materials realistically reflect sky environment lighting, headlights realistically light up and reflect on the ai car even at a good distance.
291GranTurismoSPORT2.png


forza 7 gameplay
913201932132AMyy5sai.png
What system are you claiming the yellow car side by side comparison is ? Can you confirm. And what mode is Gts in on Pro frame rate or quality mode?
 
Last edited:
I had time to make a further detailed post to some of your observations busierdonkey.



This is false though. In fact it is possible to even find GTSport's AI car can have higher fidelity with higher polygon counts compared to F7 Ai cars (one x) and pcars2 (i played on Pro) during gameplay. This isn't something Hage Kamo would want to show you or even attempted.

Both taken during gameplay in bumper cam.
gtsf7comparisongtspo.png






DOF and camera angles don't magically make the graphics look better than gameplay graphics. Forza 7 and pCars 2 replays also use DOF and a variety of different angles (pCars 2 red bull ring replay actually uses very similar angles to GTSport, based on the same real-world camera placements), but it's the overall lighting and shaders that makes those 2 games look considerably less realistic when compared to GTSport in both replay and gameplay. GTS replay angles also span multiple wide angles showcasing most of the track in addition to low angles for up close detail, so it's not really masking or hiding anything that you wouldn't see during gameplay camera.

gts replay
UITzngQ.gif


gts gameplay
g1aqdxi.gif



Plus, there's not much it needs to hide, the general environment details in GTS is better than both F7 and Pcars 2 when comparing the same tracks. You might find some obscure buildings in the circuit tracks that may have higher detail in f7 or pcars, but the overall detail of the track is better in GTS, and when it comes to making the visuals realistic, especially in motion, that heavily depends on good lighting, color reproduction, and shaders.

Forza 7
45fForzaMotorsport77320.png


GTSport
b28GranTurismoSPORT2018.png


GTSport gameplay if you don't believe photomode.
cUNjRwh.gif


GTSport lighting, material shaders, shadows, texture, and environments are all the exact same between gameplay and replay. Go into bumper cam and look around while you drive, it looks just as good as the replays. If you have a 1080p native tv, GTSport even has the high quality motion blur enabled during gameplay that's found in the replays.

gameplay
41GranTurismoSPORT2019.png


replay
e2fGranTurismoSPORT2019.png


Play both F7 and GTS and it's immediately apparent the lighting and materials puts GTS on a different level in realism, and it has nothing to do with the camera angles or DOF. This isn't even taking into account the better models.

GTS gameplay bumpercam
e4aGranTurismoSPORT2019.png


F7 replay
2a913201932113AM0vw4jx.png



gtsport gameplay - cockpit materials realistically reflect sky environment lighting, headlights realistically light up and reflect on the ai car even at a good distance.
291GranTurismoSPORT2.png


forza 7 gameplay
913201932132AMyy5sai.png


Thx for your efforts ! Forza looks so good, in different league entirely 👊🔥
 

Three

Gold Member
What system are you claiming the yellow car side by side comparison is ? Can you confirm. And what mode is Gts in on Pro frame rate or quality mode?
He says right in the post. One X. They have very aggressive LOD on AI cars both lower to begin with and drop lower with small distances.
 

Turk1993

GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
I had time to make a further detailed post to some of your observations busierdonkey.



This is false though. In fact it is possible to even find GTSport's AI car can have higher fidelity with higher polygon counts compared to F7 Ai cars (one x) and pcars2 (i played on Pro) during gameplay. This isn't something Hage Kamo would want to show you or even attempted.

Both taken during gameplay in bumper cam.
gtsf7comparisongtspo.png






DOF and camera angles don't magically make the graphics look better than gameplay graphics. Forza 7 and pCars 2 replays also use DOF and a variety of different angles (pCars 2 red bull ring replay actually uses very similar angles to GTSport, based on the same real-world camera placements), but it's the overall lighting and shaders that makes those 2 games look considerably less realistic when compared to GTSport in both replay and gameplay. GTS replay angles also span multiple wide angles showcasing most of the track in addition to low angles for up close detail, so it's not really masking or hiding anything that you wouldn't see during gameplay camera.

gts replay
UITzngQ.gif


gts gameplay
g1aqdxi.gif



Plus, there's not much it needs to hide, the general environment details in GTS is better than both F7 and Pcars 2 when comparing the same tracks. You might find some obscure buildings in the circuit tracks that may have higher detail in f7 or pcars, but the overall detail of the track is better in GTS, and when it comes to making the visuals realistic, especially in motion, that heavily depends on good lighting, color reproduction, and shaders.

Forza 7
45fForzaMotorsport77320.png


GTSport
b28GranTurismoSPORT2018.png


GTSport gameplay if you don't believe photomode.
cUNjRwh.gif


GTSport lighting, material shaders, shadows, texture, and environments are all the exact same between gameplay and replay. Go into bumper cam and look around while you drive, it looks just as good as the replays. If you have a 1080p native tv, GTSport even has the high quality motion blur enabled during gameplay that's found in the replays.

gameplay
41GranTurismoSPORT2019.png


replay
e2fGranTurismoSPORT2019.png


Play both F7 and GTS and it's immediately apparent the lighting and materials puts GTS on a different level in realism, and it has nothing to do with the camera angles or DOF. This isn't even taking into account the better models.

GTS gameplay bumpercam
e4aGranTurismoSPORT2019.png


F7 replay
2a913201932113AM0vw4jx.png



gtsport gameplay - cockpit materials realistically reflect sky environment lighting, headlights realistically light up and reflect on the ai car even at a good distance.
291GranTurismoSPORT2.png


forza 7 gameplay
913201932132AMyy5sai.png

Back with posting low pc setting screenshots and shots from base Xbox One with random X shots and replay and photomode where everything changes. Like go back a few pages and its clear wich game has for the 1000000x time the higher lod in gameplay for ai and for the player car. And posting small gifs of gameplay to prove a point doesn't do nothing when i clearly posted direct feed of gameplay images vs photomode images where you saw clearly the difference. I have proven you guys 1000x times that GTS photomode is not equel to gameplay. But all of you guys keep posting the same thing over and over again. Just to keep it short
Gameplay
42761375845_db83cb12fe_o.png

Photomode
28776197717_80801f4ae9_o.png

GTS lod only with 2 cars on the track gameplay
42674971831_c7172e3887_o.png

GTS shadow quality with 1 car on track in gameplay
41631461445_dbd1c10e61_o.png


The car lod, the draw distance, the texture filtering, shadow quality and reflections are all downgraded in gameplay compared to photomode in this pictures, and there are other downgrades that i can show you if you whant in other pictures. But i agree with one line you wrote "and when it comes to making the visuals realistic, especially in motion, that heavily depends on good lighting, color reproduction, and shaders. " this is soo true, GTS is a beast in those. So i have proven you guys wrong again, whats next? Just keep it fair. Wanna compare photomode vs photomode fine, gameplay vs gameplay fine but saying its the same thing is just soo wrongwhen there are differences like that. Forza is also not perfect, there are things like shaders,lighting and effect that are better in GTS but most of the thing you mentioned are simply better in Forza because it doesn't downgrade it in gameplay(on pc ofc). Also keep in mind i play them on the strongest platform they are on.
 

Three

Gold Member
Back with posting low pc setting screenshots and shots from base Xbox One with random X shots and replay and photomode where everything changes. Like go back a few pages and its clear wich game has for the 1000000x time the higher lod in gameplay for ai and for the player car. And posting small gifs of gameplay to prove a point doesn't do nothing when i clearly posted direct feed of gameplay images vs photomode images where you saw clearly the difference. I have proven you guys 1000x times that GTS photomode is not equel to gameplay. But all of you guys keep posting the same thing over and over again. Just to keep it short
Gameplay
42761375845_db83cb12fe_o.png

Photomode
28776197717_80801f4ae9_o.png

GTS lod only with 2 cars on the track gameplay
42674971831_c7172e3887_o.png

GTS shadow quality with 1 car on track in gameplay
41631461445_dbd1c10e61_o.png


The car lod, the draw distance, the texture filtering, shadow quality and reflections are all downgraded in gameplay compared to photomode in this pictures, and there are other downgrades that i can show you if you whant in other pictures. But i agree with one line you wrote "and when it comes to making the visuals realistic, especially in motion, that heavily depends on good lighting, color reproduction, and shaders. " this is soo true, GTS is a beast in those. So i have proven you guys wrong again, whats next? Just keep it fair. Wanna compare photomode vs photomode fine, gameplay vs gameplay fine but saying its the same thing is just soo wrongwhen there are differences like that. Forza is also not perfect, there are things like shaders,lighting and effect that are better in GTS but most of the thing you mentioned are simply better in Forza because it doesn't downgrade it in gameplay(on pc ofc). Also keep in mind i play them on the strongest platform they are on.
Try actually reading his post and what he was replying to. DOF and camera angles do not hide where the game falls short if you are saying that in replays they do not fall short because it's better. DOF and camera angles have nothing to do with that.
He simple says those don't hide anything and it's simple lighting and shaders that make it look better.

GTSport lighting, material shaders, shadows, texture, and environments are all the exact same between gameplay and replay. Go into bumper cam and look around while you drive, it looks just as good as the replays. If you have a 1080p native tv,

Models change. Environments I guess you can argue depending on what you mean.
 
Last edited:

Turk1993

GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Try actually reading his post and what he was replying to. DOF and camera angles do not hide where the game falls short if you are saying that in replays they do not fall short because it's better. DOF and camera angles have nothing to do with that.
He simy says those don't hide anything and it's simple lighting and shaders that make it look better.



Models change. Environments I guess you can argue depending on what you mean.
And i agreed with him on that one about the lighting and shaders in GTS been better and making it look more real. I even qoute it apart in one line "But i agree with one line you wrote "and when it comes to making the visuals realistic, especially in motion, that heavily depends on good lighting, color reproduction, and shaders. " this is soo true, GTS is a beast in those" its in there if you read my post ;).
 

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
And i agreed with him on that one about the lighting and shaders in GTS been better and making it look more real. I even qoute it apart in one line "But i agree with one line you wrote "and when it comes to making the visuals realistic, especially in motion, that heavily depends on good lighting, color reproduction, and shaders. " this is soo true, GTS is a beast in those" its in there if you read my post ;).
I agree with what your saying but Gts doesn't always get it right, some times and tracks can look too colourful and very gamey.
(tis a game though)
 
Last edited:

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Why has he been rumbled? I don't get it.
Look at carsar post, why people use pc with lowest settings to try and prove a point spoils the thread. Most normal people know there are pluses and negatives each have over each other.
 
Last edited:
Yeah some people are trippin, this is what an AI (Drivatar) S2000 looks like in gameplay in Forza 7 on an Xbox One X. I'm really disappointed in people trying to misrepresent stuff.


48895270243_a20554c0c8_o.png
 

Three

Gold Member
Yeah some people are trippin, this is what an AI (Drivatar) S2000 looks like in gameplay in Forza 7 on an Xbox One X. I'm really disappointed in people trying to misrepresent stuff.


48895270243_a20554c0c8_o.png
Day, night and rain LOD are different in Forza on an Xbox One X. Get Benzy to tell you which track and time/weather settings.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Truth be told - all of the current-gen games have atrocious inconsistency (maybe with the except of DC) - you can nitpick the lowest-lows vs highest-highs from two titles and the results will always be different for one title or the other (hence the thread having 300+ pages and still going strong). That being said, I hope the next-gen hardware delivers so much processing power and memory it will allow the developers for constant graphical fidelity like DC has, but without the sacrifices in framerate. Because I know for sure that ray-tracing will produce some nasty bullshots in photomodes, but it's the actual gameplay that matters for me.
 
Truth be told - all of the current-gen games have atrocious inconsistency (maybe with the except of DC) - you can nitpick the lowest-lows vs highest-highs from two titles and the results will always be different for one title or the other (hence the thread having 300+ pages and still going strong). That being said, I hope the next-gen hardware delivers so much processing power and memory it will allow the developers for constant graphical fidelity like DC has, but without the sacrifices in framerate. Because I know for sure that ray-tracing will produce some nasty bullshots in photomodes, but it's the actual gameplay that matters for me.
Driveclub doesn't have "constant graphical fidelity", it wasn't really even that great looking when you go back to it.

2985305-1418947112-Ajuhs.jpg


2985306-8657616454-eS2bL.jpg


2985301-9862969514-501TI.jpg
 

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
Easy he just uses the demo. Imagine if people posted images from gts beta. Question is what mode ps4
 
Last edited:
I already did if you missed it above. I got Forza 6 and Horizon 4 and a One X, played 7 free trial for those comparison shots I made. It's easy to post bias shots for both games which is what I posted as devil's advocate to that user. Owning multiple games doesn't prove there isn't a bias, so let's not pretend like he doesn't only post highly bias shots to show one game in a poor light versus the other. I could do even more bias posts like that but it is pointless to me and a waste of time.

If you even look at that reply he made to me, he posted a photomode in-game shot of rain in Tokyo with an in-game gameplay in LeMans, I'm not even sure what that point was or what it contributes. If you think that is something else other than a triggered fanboy response then I'm not sure what to tell you lol.

Some track details in GTS aren't as good as other tracks. I've noticed pretty much every racing game has inconsistency issues, but I would say FH4 is probably the most consistent of the AAA racing titles.

I did miss your previous post and didn't even see H Hage Kamo 's post, they got lost in the pile of posts and I was on my phone at my cabin with kbps speed internet. I just read your fanboy post. Having seen both I stand by what I said.

It just seems when people disagree the "fanboy" monicker comes out as if it's a valid argument on GAF. It's not, and it's not a contribution to the discussion. Sorry if me pointing that out offended you, that wasn't the point. You are right though, there is absolutely a bias for everyone posting in this thread, everyone has their favorites.

I also know that H Hage Kamo only has a base PS4 which he's stated multiple times. That's why I ask someone like Sebmugi Sebmugi to post some shots from a PS4 Pro so I could come to my own conclusions. I like to think Sebmugi Sebmugi and I are very similar in our thinking in this thread and I trust him to call things as he sees them and I know he doesn't play stupid games in the thread. I also think he and I both like just stopping to look at shit in games.

I can prefer one and still concede points where another is better. Frankly they all suck shit in one area or another as quite a few people here have pointed out, myself included.

In H Hage Kamo 's post replying to you it actually looks like he posted an image he's posted before. I assume he grabbed the wrong link so I outright ignored that comparison since it made no sense. H Hage Kamo has pointed out the gameplay LOD drop in GTS multiple times in this thread, I assume that was what he was showing in that post as well.

Now that I've looked back, you showed a comparison that seemed to favor Forza 7 with the S2000's reflection and headlight effects actually appearing on the track surface where as in GTS they are MIA. I'm assuming from your more recent post however you intended to point out the headlight effects in both games, and not GTS' missing reflections and light pattern. Your other comparison is a shot pointed off-track in FM7 on the Ring GP track vs. a shot straight down the city track in GTS. This isn't exactly a straight on comparison itself and nobody pointed any fingers at you for that comparison. It is showing one of the weaknesses of using duplicate assets for reflections, which I've also pointed out in this thread with distant car reflections appearing through the ground.

I had time to make a further detailed post to some of your observations busierdonkey.

I'm sure you realise my observations are of what I've seen on forums and YouTube. I've stated many times I don't have a PS4 or PS4 Pro to make the comparisons otherwise I'd just post from the game myself. I could throw up GT6 shots all day, but they tend to look pretty rough these days. I also don't have an X1X, just a launch Xbone. I mostly rely on direct-feed video when I compare console versions or the images people post here. If people are posting bullshit images I'm sure they'll get called out as it's happened several times in the thread already.

This is false though. In fact it is possible to even find GTSport's AI car can have higher fidelity with higher polygon counts compared to F7 Ai cars (one x) and pcars2 (i played on Pro) during gameplay. This isn't something Hage Kamo would want to show you or even attempted.

Both taken during gameplay in bumper cam.
gtsf7comparisongtspo.png


DOF and camera angles don't magically make the graphics look better than gameplay graphics. Forza 7 and pCars 2 replays also use DOF and a variety of different angles (pCars 2 red bull ring replay actually uses very similar angles to GTSport, based on the same real-world camera placements), but it's the overall lighting and shaders that makes those 2 games look considerably less realistic when compared to GTSport in both replay and gameplay. GTS replay angles also span multiple wide angles showcasing most of the track in addition to low angles for up close detail, so it's not really masking or hiding anything that you wouldn't see during gameplay camera.

DOF and camera angles absolutely do. Used together they can change the way an entire setting looks. A game can look like a pile of shit under scrutiny, but add in some DOF here, a wide angle lense there and better viewing angle here and you can control how much jankyness gets through.

I can't speak to how accurate these images comparo are as I also don't have an X, just an OG Bone sitting under my TV collecting dust. I blew it off and grabbed a shot of the S2000 and a PC shot on low settings for the car models. I see C carsar and DynamiteCop! DynamiteCop! both posted in-game shots showing a much higher detail AI model in-game, so I'm not sure what's up with your results. Maybe it's due to it being a rain race as T Three suggested.

The only way I can come close to replicating that LOD that close to the car is playing it on my launch base Xbone in a rain race or setting my PC to Very Low:

Launch Xbone (Full car field, Hockenheimring, heavy rain).
0UoJAjg.jpg


PC on Very Low settings:
IXBD2zu.jpg


PC on Ultra settings:
tcyXlJP.jpg


gts replay
UITzngQ.gif


gts gameplay
g1aqdxi.gif
These are resized gifs. Resized gifs still don't hide my point here. In the top images the background trees are blurred from an aperture effect. Despite being shrunk, the effect is still quite apparent. The effect hides aliasing among other things like missing details or the fact that the entire row of trees in the background is a big flat surface. There also seems to be a big jump in the particles used for the rain effect in the replay. If I'm to base things off just your comparison here, there are absolutely improvements made during replays in GTS. I wasn't shaming GTS for this anyways, the use of these effects adds to the replays and makes them look much better than in-game visuals. I've shit on Forza 7's replays since I started posting here, they're shit-tier. The poor use or complete lack of effects hurts Forza 7's replays massively. If anything I think T10 needs to take a page out of this book. I think SMS had it right with the first PCars and somehow took a step back in PCars 2. GTS's use of visual effects to improve replays along with wise replay angle choices is why it has the best replays.

Gameplay followed by replay


Watch that video in 4K/60, observe the pop and fade in during the gameplay, then observe the lack of both during the replay. It also demonstrates quite clearly that DOF and aperture effects are used frequently, just as your resized gif did. Again, this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

The car models do take a massive hit when going into actual gameplay, and there are countless examples of this in the thread. Shadow quality in gameplay modes is also different than in replays, with clear steps in quality during gameplay that are not present during replays. Again, good, they have the added resources suring replays, why not use them?

There is a hard line just ahead of the car where the shadow quality drops to a blurry mess.


In replay mode you can see the shadow quality drop line is no longer present


I posted a GTS video a while back of the Beetle on the city track showing how massive of a downgrade the cars can have between in-game and replay. The Beetle's tail lights become xeptagons in-game.

Plus, there's not much it needs to hide, the general environment details in GTS is better than both F7 and Pcars 2 when comparing the same tracks. You might find some obscure buildings in the circuit tracks that may have higher detail in f7 or pcars, but the overall detail of the track is better in GTS, and when it comes to making the visuals realistic, especially in motion, that heavily depends on good lighting, color reproduction, and shaders.

Forza 7
45fForzaMotorsport77320.png


GTSport
b28GranTurismoSPORT2018.png


GTSport gameplay if you don't believe photomode.
cUNjRwh.gif

There is a ton of shit to hide in almost any game when you get too close. There isn't a game on the market that you can't tear apart under scrutiny.

The really funny thing with these shots is that you don't even have to come to a complete stop on this track for it to fall apart in FM7, it was actually downgraded in complexity from the version of the track used in Forza 6, which was a downgrade in complexity from Forza 5. It's easy to explain why though. This is one of the tracks in the game that has all the possible TOD and weather options open, and still allows a full 24 car field so they cut the scenery to bare minimum so that it could run on the base Xbone at a locked 60fps. No denying it looks rough. You should try taking a screenshot on this track at night with the exposure up, it looks like an N64 game on the OG XBone. Definitely a sore spot for the game.

GTSport lighting, material shaders, shadows, texture, and environments are all the exact same between gameplay and replay. Go into bumper cam and look around while you drive, it looks just as good as the replays. If you have a 1080p native tv, GTSport even has the high quality motion blur enabled during gameplay that's found in the replays.

gameplay
41GranTurismoSPORT2019.png


replay
e2fGranTurismoSPORT2019.png


Play both F7 and GTS and it's immediately apparent the lighting and materials puts GTS on a different level in realism, and it has nothing to do with the camera angles or DOF. This isn't even taking into account the better models.

The phrase "high quality motion blur" is a contradiction. Motion blur should have one setting, off.

All three major "sim" racers, Forza 7, GTS, and Project Cars 2 are completely hit-or-miss in a lot of areas. I'm pretty sure at this point in the thread we've reached a concensus on more than a few points.

-One of those was that GTS uses better shaders than Forza 7 on many surfaces, though I'd argue that some materials like rubber in Forza look more convincing. I'd argue Horizon 4 handles things equally as well as GTS for the most part.

-The lighting engine in GTS is handled much better overall, I don't think anybody is arguing that either. I'd argue here again, especially given the open world and random weather possibilities, Horizon 4 handles lighting even better than GTS does.

-Nobody is arguing the car model accuracy in GT is superior to the Forza games, though limited in both number and missing any sort of damage model. GT Sport car models in-game are another matter entirely, there is a massive poly count drop. Between the fact they have full damage models and you can run the entire 32 car field with Ultra LOD on a PC, I'd give this one to Project Cars 2.

-I will also argue the quality of track and near-track surfaces in Forza 7, as well as the texture quality in general is much better than either Project Cars 2 or GT Sport. There was a comparison a few pages back that showed this pretty well. Now once again I'll bring Horizon 4 into things, many items in the game's world has a version for each season, and it all still has to look decent up close since you can drive into it all. Looking into things like trees, Horizon has all modeled trees, which move in the wind and all but the biggest trees can be destroyed by the cars.

-When it comes to the weather effects, compared with DC's over the top fantastical effects, FH4's literally random weather and seasons, PC2's ability to make it sunny, rain or snow on and track, FM7's fairly limited system and even old PGR4 which portrayed all four seasons, GTS is was behind. Even GT6 has more weather options. The visual representation of it's limited weather system is also not up to par with the rest. Considering everything, I have to give this to FH4 again. Though the seasons are sectioned, there are big changes to the environments with the different seasons like higher rivers, frozen lakes, changes to the trees, etc.

-Photomode hands down goes to GTS. They've been improving this mode since it was first implemented. Horizon 4 and PCars 2 can produce some really great shots as well but GTS has a definite edge. FM7 shots can look really good, but the photomode has low quality DOF, Bokeh, and the motion blur effect is abysmal.

-Replays. Just like above, GTS is building on what started with the first GT. PCars is decent, though rough at times. Forza 7 uses poor angles, poor effects and uses too many moving/panning on a rail style angles. Horizon 4 doesn't even have mounted camera points making them even worse.

gtsport gameplay - cockpit materials realistically reflect sky environment lighting, headlights realistically light up and reflect on the ai car even at a good distance.

This was something in Forza 7 I didn't like either and again attribute to the game needing to run at all on the base console. The interiors and the interior lighting effects were greatly improved for Horizon 4, as well as these headlight effects, so hopefully they stay improved for Forza 8. That said, there were improvements in Horizon 3 that missed Forza 7...

The cubemap reflections used for the interiors in GTS are definitely something everyone else needs to copy/paste, they add a lot to the interiors that have chrome parts.

Forza Motorsport 4 gameplay:
SAb72Ml.jpg


Easy he just uses the demo. Imagine if people posted images from gts beta. Question is what mode ps4
The demo was removed a while back and replaced with a 4 hour trail of the full download. He's running the 4 hour trial which should be exactly the same as the full release.

Well that was a fun waste of time. Until next time :messenger_grinning_smiling:
 

scalman

Member
still no matter how good looking cockpits i find in GTS cars , some cars, because some cars in GTS have just ugly cockpits some are really ugly , but no matter how good some cars look , i found that in Horizon 4 i sit in any car and i have same level of detail , and its very good ,and that feeling you have when lithinging is dynamic when weather changes as you drive , when evening comes or its becomes cloudy thats what makes it better looking for me in all.
just looks how they can have amazing cockpits on some cars and then uggly stuff that you dont wanna look at on others
DUudo_aX0AA59ky


or some bad looking exterior as well
DMcF2-nXkAAa5R1


and that never happened in GT6 on premium models, remember adaptive tesselation stuff ? its was mindblowing back then and even now, so those look worse then on GT6

so they must be hating some cars in there or lazy to make proper or what other reason is there , but it makes all picture look worse like about the game, so why Viper GTS 02 have ok body outside
EG1GVXEWwAECS8o

but then crap in cockpit
and why they hate that poor STI so much ?
EG1HJ5lWwAE42OG


EG1Hc0mWoAEd7gP


so all those pics from GTS that looks amazing yes they look amazing , but then those other cars... i mean you will never find that on Forza 7 , Horizon 3,4 cars models

as in Horizon 4 every single car with subarus looks just amazing
MXqK0Jo.png


zMb8EsT.png


9pkEB1G.png


VEoaY80.png


MG5Dx5m.png


and in GTS in cloudy days on rain all reflections just gone from cars as they become kinda matt color , no problem on huge open world in Horizon 4 though
 
Last edited:

Sebmugi

Member
wow it still moves around here yet it seems to me that we had agreed that the perfect game does not exist (yet) and that everyone has its strengths and weaknesses .. ^^
good it's always fun to see comparatives but because of my approximate English, I can not take part as I would like to discuss .. cons I have a One X and a Pro with some games in dabts I can to do things pecise if you ask me .. at the same time I go on vacation tomorrow for a period of 15 days .. :/
 
Top Bottom