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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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skit_data

Member
Is it that oodle magic on ps5?

And on PS4, apparently.
Oodle can be used on PS4 as well yes, it simply does not have a separate decompression unit so it cannot be decompressed on the fly i.e it will have to decompress on the CPU.

Edit: This makes sense, Sony licensed Kraken and Oodle Texture for use in their dev enviroment so it can probably be used also in PS4 game development
 
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Thirty7ven

Banned
Fun fact about Oodle, some of the newly Xbox studios are very found of it. In fact Idtech loves it. Doom Eternal and Wolfenstein 2 are examples. Cerny did say they approached RAD tools because they saw Oodle becoming the standard, and it's looking more and more like a great decision to have made it so integral to the design of the PS5 I/O architecture.
 
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Lysandros

Member
I was still a little hopeful about a 'back to roots' tech discussion but that's not the general sentiment apparently. To be fair this became a news/tweet thread pretty long ago.
 
I was still a little hopeful about a 'back to roots' tech discussion but that's not the general sentiment apparently. To be fair this became a news/tweet thread pretty long ago.

Tbh, there's pretty much very little we don't already know about these machines. And I think starting up new threads to discuss new tech-related news is better, because a) it helps the mods better moderate those discussions, and b) minimizes the platform wars (hopefully).
 

DaGwaphics

Member
As if a $400 console wouldn't be affordable to the mass market in 2021. Don't even get why you pulled the 3090 to the discussion, the gaming performance is pretty much the same as the 3080 for about double the price (MSRP of course).

Btw, I thought Xbox had this Xcloud thing for casuals, what's up with that?

And yet even successful consoles (the PS3, 360, ps2, and ps4) frequently reach a point of stagnating sales before that price cut to $299. And as wildly successful as the most recent consoles have been, we don't know how many units they would have moved if it was feasible to get them down to $199 like most of the older systems reached in the past. The reality is that every $100 matters, no matter what price point you are at. There will be a certain set of users that simply won't purchase the box for $100 more.
 
Bill O'Rights Bill O'Rights I also vote for changing the thread title to current-gen general discussion.

We can make new threads to discuss tech stuff moving forwards. This thread turned away from that long ago. So rather than burden the mods trying to strictly moderate it when the train already left the station, just change the thread title and let folks have their fun.

yeah the problem is that there’s just not enough tech specific news anymore now that the generation is maturing.

and it’s vague what is considered tech discussion to begin with, is it strictly performance metrics or discussion of next gen game art (exclusive) comparisons too?

I think making it more broad makes sense, although moving it to communities would get it less visibility
 
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3liteDragon

Member
Folks you have a choice of how to take this thread forward. Either it's a catch all for any type of games news, tweets, memes etc. and the thread can be closed and a new one started in 'Communities', or renamed into the 'general console news/info/random tweet thread'. The other options is to stay on topic with what this thread is actually meant to be about. While we've used soft touches up to now like deletions, notifications and edits, the overhead for one thread is now too much, and people will start to earn sizeable reply bans in order to course correct and keep the thread useful for those following.


Thanks.
I prefer renaming this thread to “Current-Gen Console Discussion.” It’s pretty much been that way ever since the consoles came out.
 
And yet even successful consoles (the PS3, 360, ps2, and ps4) frequently reach a point of stagnating sales before that price cut to $299. And as wildly successful as the most recent consoles have been, we don't know how many units they would have moved if it was feasible to get them down to $199 like most of the older systems reached in the past. The reality is that every $100 matters, no matter what price point you are at. There will be a certain set of users that simply won't purchase the box for $100 more.
Yeah, sure, and if it's 1$ will sell even more. But I'm not sure I would want the next 6 to 7 years of my gaming experiences defined by what devs can cram in to the bottom of the barrel technology.
It's a tired analogy but I think it has merit. Mobile phones are pricier and pricier every year with very little in terms of progress in that area. Still, we feel comfortable replacing it every 2 years for a shinier model, but a gaming console somehow should be dirt cheap and last 7+ years.
It just boggles my mind this cheap mentality. I get it if you're a kid with no income, but not for an adult.
 

ToadMan

Member
Bill O'Rights Bill O'Rights I also vote for changing the thread title to current-gen general discussion.

We can make new threads to discuss tech stuff moving forwards. This thread turned away from that long ago. So rather than burden the mods trying to strictly moderate it when the train already left the station, just change the thread title and let folks have their fun.

I think they're planing to move it to communities if they make the change to "general" discussion.

Basically this thread is doomed - talk tech and it lives, but the tech is kind of done now - well there's PSVR2 I guess.

Or change it to a general thread and wave it bye bye.

The Community pen is where threads go to be euthanized .... :goog_crying:
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
Yeah, sure, and if it's 1$ will sell even more. But I'm not sure I would want the next 6 to 7 years of my gaming experiences defined by what devs can cram in to the bottom of the barrel technology.
It's a tired analogy but I think it has merit. Mobile phones are pricier and pricier every year with very little in terms of progress in that area. Still, we feel comfortable replacing it every 2 years for a shinier model, but a gaming console somehow should be dirt cheap and last 7+ years.
It just boggles my mind this cheap mentality. I get it if you're a kid with no income, but not for an adult.

The mobile market is a different animal since most are financing those new phones into their existing phone contracts. Phone contracts that are just looked at as phone bills even though the bills would be cheaper if you didn't roll the phone in. Plus, a phone is considered essential, and rightfully so, the game console not as much. MS is trying to kickstart that same mentality in the console space with All-Access, we'll see if it takes off.

But I don't doubt that a free console would "sell" very well, LOL. If there was a way to make that work, I'm sure Sony and MS would be all over that approach.

Regarding kids with no income vs. adults etc., it's not so much about income levels, but more what value is placed on what device/service by individuals. The lower the price the greater the uptake generally speaking. You can look at almost any retail item and there will be low-cost options that sell well when statistically better options are available for seemingly very little more, that's the free market for you.
 
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I think they're planing to move it to communities if they make the change to "general" discussion.

Basically this thread is doomed - talk tech and it lives, but the tech is kind of done now - well there's PSVR2 I guess.

Or change it to a general thread and wave it bye bye.

The Community pen is where threads go to be euthanized .... :goog_crying:

Most of the thread regulars will have notifications enabled so will be able to keep abreast of any updates.

If we get less first-time poster burner/Senjustsusage-alt accounts coming in and derailing the thread with platform war declarations, then that's a bloody good thing.
 

Iced Arcade

Member
Folks you have a choice of how to take this thread forward. Either it's a catch all for any type of games news, tweets, memes etc. and the thread can be closed and a new one started in 'Communities', or renamed into the 'general console news/info/random tweet thread'. The other options is to stay on topic with what this thread is actually meant to be about. While we've used soft touches up to now like deletions, notifications and edits, the overhead for one thread is now too much, and people will start to earn sizeable reply bans in order to course correct and keep the thread useful for those following.


Thanks.
It is and has been used like a community thread.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
TBH, catch-all threads are not the greatest idea for any forum.

The main convo on any given topic should happen in a thread on that topic. Popular catch-all threads end up fragmenting convo or duplicating it.

If it's a community of people who shoot the shit about a topic, perhaps it SHOULDNT have top billing, and should be in "communities", and the main convo should be encouraged to be in on-topic threads.
 

Sinthor

Gold Member
giphy.gif


From era.
I think it's safe to say that this game looks like it's definitely not a 'cross-gen' title, no? I'm very curious to see it. Those games are always charming as are the stories. Plus technically....this looks very impressive to me!
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Definitely, but I'd argue that the concept of the Communities subforum while novel actually hurts the communities by shuttering them away to a forum no one visits. The community does not get to grow and dies a slow death.

I say get rid of the community forum altogether.
I never understood the division between Gaming and Communities because OT thread about games are still Gaming.
Off-topic is more reasonable.
 
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Sinthor

Gold Member
Bill O'Rights Bill O'Rights I also vote for changing the thread title to current-gen general discussion.

We can make new threads to discuss tech stuff moving forwards. This thread turned away from that long ago. So rather than burden the mods trying to strictly moderate it when the train already left the station, just change the thread title and let folks have their fun.
I think I'd second this at this point. I mean, we still have speculation and unknowns, but I don't see a clear path forward on that...maybe things we'll find out around mid-generation. Those items are fairly small as well so general discussion of CURRENT gen probably does make the most sense going forward. Good call! It's been fun speculating with you all, folks!
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I never understood the division between Gaming and Communities because OT thread about games are still Gaming.
Off-topic is more reasonable.
I think it's just meant for those threads that are basically permanent.

A popular game has an OT that can last years, or through multiple instances.. same with this thread.

Keeps the main thread list more about news.

Just need to keep reminding people they are there, and to check the sub-section.
 

ethomaz

Banned
I think it's just meant for those threads that are basically permanent.

A popular game has an OT that can last years, or through multiple instances.. same with this thread.

Keeps the main thread list more about news.

Just need to keep reminding people they are there, and to check the sub-section.
The actual descriptions are...

Gaming: Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

Communities: Ongoing gaming |OT|s, matchmaking, community threads for specific interests


IMO communities by description seems to more a place for OTs, LFP/LFG, and off-topic non-gaming interests (Manga, Movies, Anime, etc for example).

The actual talk about games with tweets, articles, etc happens on Gaming... everything related to Gaming should be in the gaming section and that makes the OT and LFP/LFG being in another place weird.

Edit - BTW using the descriptions Off-topic now makes no sense... off-topic talk should happen in Communities.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Yes.. "On-Going" threads like I said the ones that are "basically permanent"

Gaming = Random gaming news and other gaming thoughts
Off Topic = Random non-gaming news and other non-gaming thoughts
Communities = Threads for topics that are gaming or non-gaming that are meant to last a long time, and aren't "news".. aka catch-all threads for specific games, sports, etc.
 
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Iced Arcade

Member
Definitely, but I'd argue that the concept of the Communities subforum while novel actually hurts the communities by shuttering them away to a forum no one visits. The community does not get to grow and dies a slow death.

I say get rid of the community forum altogether.
partly agree. when I modded over at IGN, the inclusion of community threads there killed any participation of regulars in regular topics on the consoles forums. They created some close communities and bonds but also created cliques and hives and referred to as "safe place". (Just an observation)

Community threads have pros and cons to them.
 
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ArcaneNLSC

Member
Question:

If we started a NEW Next Gen (10th Gen) speculation and news thread today how many pages do you think it would get to by the time 10th Gen starts?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think I'd second this at this point. I mean, we still have speculation and unknowns, but I don't see a clear path forward on that...maybe things we'll find out around mid-generation. Those items are fairly small as well so general discussion of CURRENT gen probably does make the most sense going forward. Good call! It's been fun speculating with you all, folks!
2f0.gif
 

8BiTw0LF

Banned
I was looking through Microsoft Game Stacks new video about Velocity Architecture and stumbled upon this: "Titles are guaranteed 2.0GB/s of read bandwidth"
(timestamped)


Later they show a test of Velocity Architecture in action - look at the size of data being processed. ~2-3GB.
(timestamped)


If that's the maximum I/O Series X can deliver through Velocity Architecture - it's not even fair to compare it to PS5's I/O.
(timestamped)
 

thewire

Member
I was looking through Microsoft Game Stacks new video about Velocity Architecture and stumbled upon this: "Titles are guaranteed 2.0GB/s of read bandwidth"
(timestamped)


Later they show a test of Velocity Architecture in action - look at the size of data being processed. ~2-3GB.
(timestamped)


If that's the maximum I/O Series X can deliver through Velocity Architecture - it's not even fair to compare it to PS5's I/O.
(timestamped)

Not even sure why it was debated, just nonsense used by the other side to cover up the biggest differential between each platform, multiple devs have stated since last year the ps5 I/o architecture is the best in the industry bar none by a long distance.
 
I was looking through Microsoft Game Stacks new video about Velocity Architecture and stumbled upon this: "Titles are guaranteed 2.0GB/s of read bandwidth"
(timestamped)


Later they show a test of Velocity Architecture in action - look at the size of data being processed. ~2-3GB.
(timestamped)


If that's the maximum I/O Series X can deliver through Velocity Architecture - it's not even fair to compare it to PS5's I/O.
(timestamped)

This might be why Sony still hasn't unlocked the internal SSD bay. How many commercial NVME drives have 17GB/S speed? How much do those drives cost? Can a game be developed around a drive that could have varying specs? There was wisdom in sticking with a proprietary drive. One solution was ready day one the other solution is TBD. In real world usage how much of an advantage has it brought? Are we seeing the paper differences?
 
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Loxus

Member
Just wanted to say I love this thread, it’s the reason I made an account here on neogaf some months before the new consoles were released and there was wild speculation going on.

I would personally vote to keep the thread and rename it, removing the “tech” part and allowing it to continue.
Same here.
This thread was and is still the number one place I go to for my PS5/XBSX tech news.
I'd hate to see it go.
I feel like GAF wouldn't be the same without it.
 

skit_data

Member
This might be why Sony still hasn't unlocked the internal SSD bay. How many commercial NVME drives have 17GB/S speed? How much do those drives cost? Can a game be developed around a drive that could have varying specs? There was wisdom in sticking with a proprietary drive. One solution was ready day one the other solution is TBD. In real world usage how much of an advantage has it brought? Are we seeing the paper differences?
The decompression unit will still be used for the expansion SSD, so it will be able to reach those speeds. I think the difference is that the internal SSD has 12 channels, whereas the one that will be fitted into the expansion bay will have 8.

The raw read speed of the internal is 5.5 GB/s so my guess is that it will need something about 50% faster to make up for the lack of channels. So at least 8.25 GB/s.
 
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I was looking through Microsoft Game Stacks new video about Velocity Architecture and stumbled upon this: "Titles are guaranteed 2.0GB/s of read bandwidth"
(timestamped)


Later they show a test of Velocity Architecture in action - look at the size of data being processed. ~2-3GB.
(timestamped)


If that's the maximum I/O Series X can deliver through Velocity Architecture - it's not even fair to compare it to PS5's I/O.
(timestamped)


SlimySnake SlimySnake posted a gif which reminded me of something.



The level of detail and the geometry reminds me of the Unreal 5 engine demo.



I wouldn't be surprised if Insomniac is doing something similar with asset streaming in Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart. It certainly would fall in line with what Mark was talking about.

20200329135313.jpg
 

mansoor1980

Member
SlimySnake SlimySnake posted a gif which reminded me of something.



The level of detail and the geometry reminds me of the Unreal 5 engine demo.



I wouldn't be surprised if Insomniac is doing something similar with asset streaming in Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart. It certainly would fall in line with what Mark was talking about.

20200329135313.jpg

man that UE5 demo was impressive , if games this gen look just like that then i cant frikkin wait
 

dcmk7

Banned
This might be why Sony still hasn't unlocked the internal SSD bay. How many commercial NVME drives have 17GB/S speed? How much do those drives cost? Can a game be developed around a drive that could have varying specs? There was wisdom in sticking with a proprietary drive. One solution was ready day one the other solution is TBD. In real world usage how much of an advantage has it brought? Are we seeing the paper differences?

If the SSD inside it allows us to get games looking and playing like Ratchet, in the first year of the generation no less, I'm sure most people can get by, managing their storage (like most people do) for a period of time as a compromise.

People get new consoles to play exciting games at the end of the day. Hope you're enjoying your SeaGate expansion card and thanks for expressing your concern.
 
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