• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

azertydu91

Member
Sep 11, 2013
1,884
3,547
670
France
I take advantage of your reply to present something general.

Try (everyone) to read the following text objectively.

In times of load and "fineness in visual detail" (not resolution) the thing is in favor of PS5. I don't think it will change if things are done the way they have to.

Now, perceptibly for the user there might be no difference, which is what really matters. Demon's Souls Remake could look just as "good" in XSX without any problems. Surely with "longer" load times (few seconds), without the DualSense touch experience or immersive 3D sound (another type of sound, good too), but visually "identical" in one way or another (we could even debate about if in XSX higher refresh rates could be achieved, although for an exit title it doesn't really matter).

Likewise, all this is so relative ... it depends on the development study, it depends on the development time, the budget, if it is exclusive or not ... too many factors to be able to make a real comparison.

Also keep in mind that no "totally nextgen" gameplay has actually been seen (by any of them). And both can do much better things. The problem with MS is the lack of games that take advantage of its system and, if I am not mistaken, that absence will last for 1 more year. But once we start to see XSX games that really take advantage of the system, we can really be sure if more power is better or more efficiency is better. In practice we are talking about very similar percentage margins.

I think that we will have to wait and see what Ninja Theory achieves in XSX and Naughty Dog in PS5 (if possible in games with similar characteristics) to really know which is the best way (I am talking only about visual finish, regardless of the game's argument ).

As for the difference in Multiplatforms, the real difference "should" be less than that of this image.



In short, it all falls to development studies. It depends on which way they go they will obtain some results or others. Until then (2 or 3 years) it cannot really be valued. For now, in my opinion, the one that has to prove something now is XSX. And it will surely prove it (you need it).
It matches pretty much what insiders like Matt from Era said the power gap is closer than its ever been, so the difference might not be perceptible.
Now what will matters is studio's talent, budget and manadgement.
I think It showed pretty good with Halo and the crossgen debacle.When MS touted their cross gen approach then showed Halo a lot of people myself include said get out with that cross gen bullshit.But Spidermand and Horizon showed that crossgen can be done good and the Halo was more a 343's problem than a crossgen one.
And if Sony manages to make some good looking cross gen games there's no reason Ms cannot do it too.Especially considering how close they are in power...Even with the I/O because honestly if a ps5 can load something in 1 sec and XsX in about 2 sec is it really that different for the consumer?
 

Aceofspades

Banned
Mar 31, 2015
3,731
7,699
865
I got one from Amazon in my country. I was lucky. They just opened pre order very early in the morning without notice. I was dreaming that I pre ordered PS5 from Amazon ( the PS5 in my dream looked like dreamcast but that doesn't matter anyway) then, I woke up then just decided to check Amazon in my phone and.......it was there 😍 and pre ordered quickly. I didn't even know if it was digital or Disc version and I didn't check the price 😅. Finally got it. A Disc version at an equivalent of $600 including VAT. It sold out just after I finished my payment.
This is a textbook example of dream came true. 😂

Unlike past generations, the PS5 will be sold out in my country before release. It never ever happened before.
This is my first time struggling to get one here on release. Hope Amazon doesn't cancel it.


Damn I tried early in the morning and it said "product unavailable" 😭
 
Last edited:
Feb 25, 2020
1,128
2,643
355
It matches pretty much what insiders like Matt from Era said the power gap is closer than its ever been, so the difference might not be perceptible.
Now what will matters is studio's talent, budget and manadgement.
I think It showed pretty good with Halo and the crossgen debacle.When MS touted their cross gen approach then showed Halo a lot of people myself include said get out with that cross gen bullshit.But Spidermand and Horizon showed that crossgen can be done good and the Halo was more a 343's problem than a crossgen one.
And if Sony manages to make some good looking cross gen games there's no reason Ms cannot do it too.Especially considering how close they are in power...Even with the I/O because honestly if a ps5 can load something in 1 sec and XsX in about 2 sec is it really that different for the consumer?
I remember some people saying the difference between the two consoles is bigger than expected, kind of pretending almost the exact same machines. At the end of the day those are two consoles designed by different people.
 

CrysisFreak

Banned
Apr 9, 2020
2,221
5,663
605
Everyone gets to preorder a PS5 except me fuck this shit so much imma go nuclear bitches you think you can defeat me guess what fuck you I'm raging hard this is not acceptable they shot themselves in the foot. Oh boy god knows I deserve it more than you everyone knows that but ooh woo sold out my ass fuck!
 

Mahavastu

Member
Aug 17, 2020
362
678
285
i think Sony wouldn't mind gamepass on PS if Xbox exit the console business, this would actually be great imagine buying 1 console and you can play everything on it even Halo and Gears
They would mind, just as Apple did on iOS
If you have a strong AppStore like Sony / Apple, you do not want to enable other companies to bypass it. Officially because of "we need to make sure the apps/games are conform to our standards (sex/violence/quality/whatever)", but in reality because of the income someone else gets instead of them.
I am sure that Sony would like to see Microsoft games in their Store, just like Outer Worlds or Wasteland3 today, but not in form of a subscription of some other company.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: kretos

sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
6,257
33,611
825
A local pond.
It matches pretty much what insiders like Matt from Era said the power gap is closer than its ever been, so the difference might not be perceptible.
Now what will matters is studio's talent, budget and manadgement.
I think It showed pretty good with Halo and the crossgen debacle.When MS touted their cross gen approach then showed Halo a lot of people myself include said get out with that cross gen bullshit.But Spidermand and Horizon showed that crossgen can be done good and the Halo was more a 343's problem than a crossgen one.
And if Sony manages to make some good looking cross gen games there's no reason Ms cannot do it too.Especially considering how close they are in power...Even with the I/O because honestly if a ps5 can load something in 1 sec and XsX in about 2 sec is it really that different for the consumer?

It the end like most things in life, it's down to the creative flair and genius of the people making the games.

You can give an artist a blank canvas and all the paint in the world, it does not mean he is suddenly going to turn into Michelangelo.
 

azertydu91

Member
Sep 11, 2013
1,884
3,547
670
France
I remember some people saying the difference between the two consoles is bigger than expected, kind of pretending almost the exact same machines. At the end of the day those are two consoles designed by different people.
Yeah but were they real insiders or "golem" insiders like osirisblack, tommyfischer or O'dium.Because Matt has always been acurate until now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr Moose

azertydu91

Member
Sep 11, 2013
1,884
3,547
670
France
It the end like most things in life, it's down to the creative flair and genius of the people making the games.

You can give an artist a blank canvas and all the paint in the world, it does not mean he is suddenly going to turn into Michelangelo.
Well ship me a blank canvas you'll see my Michelangelo side .... I'll draw the best stickman than I'm capable of .....Which is pretty bad.
 

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
13,622
26,350
1,420
I went all digital for five years now and it was the best thing I've ever done.

And I'm a guy who used to make bluray cases with custom covers for the ocassional digital only game I would buy in the past.

It's just so much more convenient for me. To have everything on a hard/solid state drive and my ps/xbox/windows account.

I don't misbehave online and I rarely game online, so I have no reason to be afraid of a ban.
I've been gradually moving towards digital for a while. Still own over a dozen of discs though, and would rather own a console with a disc drive than one without.
 

sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
6,257
33,611
825
A local pond.
Pretty sure Sony aren’t going to pay much attention the mistakes it’s made over the past few days with game launch information and preorders, given that the Ps5 has sold out everywhere, at a rate three times higher than Ps4!

i think internally sony will not be very happy, they have super high standards and the last few days have not done them selfs any favors, i am very surprised at the way they have handled the preorder thing. its very poor from them.

Saying that you are right, their snowball at the moment is a juggernaut, and it's still growing, losing some snow here and there won't have any effect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FunkMiller

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,159
15,751
915
Sure, some suspicion. But is that really what we're seeing?

Its the internet.

But when you blatantly misrepresent something I'm not sure what you expect? Especially with a product that is not cheap and requires a large investment of disposable income.
 

Dubsteniel

Member
Aug 15, 2020
110
425
260
How do you know they're in-game though? After learning that this game is cross-gen, I just can't believe any of the shots are?

If you have a little bit of feeling you can recognize it by the look and style of the shots from Death Stranding/HZD. They have the typical characteristic look of the Decima engine (e.g. well know Thunderstorm/clouds etc.) . But that is certainly not good enough for you to justify. If you scroll through the images frame by frame, you can see the game engine characteristics that typically occur in in-game shots many times. Like for example
lagging objects
refreshing details
shadows "tremble" and pop in
ligthing/shadows changes in distance
moving/pop in out level of details
etc. etc. ect.
It should be enough if you look at the first 25 seconds and you see these characteristics everywhere. Of course you can still argue that this is only in-engine. But it is too obvious.
 
Feb 25, 2020
1,128
2,643
355
How do you know they're in-game though? After learning that this game is cross-gen, I just can't believe any of the shots are?
Being a cinematic or not doesn't make that much of a difference this gen, especially on Sony games that are really pushing for smooth transitions. They may not be in-game, but they will likely resemble gameplay on PS5.
 

Raphael

Member
Mar 23, 2013
547
253
625
Are there any further conferences expected from Microsoft before the preorders ? I know sony will have one focused on UI but dont recall one from MS. Think it would be a great opportunity for them to give a one last thing moment, with some big game available on game pass in launch window as it was rumored.
 
Last edited:

user1337

Member
Mar 3, 2010
500
1,460
1,095
So guys, I potentially have some good news and some not so good news.


Good news first:
I may have got myself a pre-order in the UK


Not so good news:
I may NOT have got myself a pre-order in the UK

I have £1090 "locked" by the bank to pay 2 websites for pre-orders that may or may not actually go through according to those same websites...




 
Last edited:

Alex Scott

Member
May 3, 2020
123
513
400
Are there any further conferences expected from Microsoft before the preorders ? I know sony will have one focused on UI but dont recall one from MS. Think it would be a great opportunity for them to give a one last thing moment, with some big game available on game pass in launch window as it was rumored.
Maybe before there pre order begins to hype their fanbase up. Or after. My guess is before,
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raphael and Nikana

Neo Blaster

Member
Jan 27, 2020
3,711
16,372
590
I'm on the "all things considered, this price is not so bad" camp. My friends are mostly on the "fuck this shit, we are going to Paraguay next year", and I was the one organizing the trip prior to the price announcement. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
I have the money for it upfront and I can pay by installments if I want. I'm seriously considering it to play Cyberpunk.

I'll sleep on this and see what I think tomorrow. Options options...
It's funny, there's a WhatsApp group I'm in mostly about PlayStation and many where saying 'no way I'm paying more than 2k on a console'. And we thought gray market would go for 5k and official about 7-8k.

Then after the official price was revealed, one by one was taking the plunge, and now were saying 'just gimme the damn digital thing, I'm selling my Pro anyway to cut the cost'. First time in my gamer life I'm getting a system on launch date, hype since Cerny's first interview on Wired and fu**ing 2020 did that to me. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 

jimbojim

Banned
May 7, 2020
1,196
3,811
480
Everyone gets to preorder a PS5 except me fuck this shit so much imma go nuclear bitches you think you can defeat me guess what fuck you I'm raging hard this is not acceptable they shot themselves in the foot. Oh boy god knows I deserve it more than you everyone knows that but ooh woo sold out my ass fuck!

Sorry to hear that. Anyway, preordered PS5 Disc + Dualsense + Pulse 3D
 

user1337

Member
Mar 3, 2010
500
1,460
1,095
I went all digital for five years now and it was the best thing I've ever done.

And I'm a guy who used to make bluray cases with custom covers for the ocassional digital only game I would buy in the past.

It's just so much more convenient for me. To have everything on a hard/solid state drive and my ps/xbox/windows account.

I don't misbehave online and I rarely game online, so I have no reason to be afraid of a ban.

Totally with you on that. I also tried (maybe succeeded) to order the DE version. I have over 280 digital purchases on the PS4 and 5 discs...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nickolaidas

Snowdonhoffen

Member
Apr 27, 2020
965
7,357
410
I'm really surprised by how in every poll the XSS is the less desired console. I mean, we see a lot of people hyping the console and say that it will be the best selling next gen Xbox due to its price, but none of them seem to be willing to buy it. And it makes me wonder, what if the XSX ends up outselling the XSS by a far margin?

 

CrysisFreak

Banned
Apr 9, 2020
2,221
5,663
605
I'm really surprised by how in every poll the XSS is the less desired console. I mean, we see a lot of people hyping the console and say that it will be the best selling next gen Xbox due to its price, but none of them seem to be willing to buy it. And it makes me wonder, what if the XSX ends up outselling the XSS by a far margin?

Casuals don't do Digital Foundry polls tbh.
I expect Xbox SS to sell more for sure, maybe not in the beginning but later yeah.
 

Evilms

Posts in tech threads, doesn't understand.
Dec 16, 2018
2,184
10,217
655
I'm really surprised by how in every poll the XSS is the less desired console. I mean, we see a lot of people hyping the console and say that it will be the best selling next gen Xbox due to its price, but none of them seem to be willing to buy it. And it makes me wonder, what if the XSX ends up outselling the XSS by a far margin?


The XSS at $300 is still a nice scam, for 100$ more you get a real next gen console designed for 4K gaming.
 
Mar 27, 2020
11,314
31,546
720
Uncharted bunghole
Can we confirm Ratchet and Clank is PS5 only I'm sure the game machanics aren't possible on the PS4 that also includes Medium... Right? 🤔

Medium seems like it would work on HDDs because they are just running two instances of the game side by side.

As for Ratchet those portal jumps seem like they would be extremely annoying on HDDs. It's why I don't think Ratchet is a cross gen title.
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
14,266
68,883
945
35
Salalah, Oman
I've been out after project "Nimble" for some time due to sorting out the new internet service as I'm in the 3rd floor at home, but got upgraded from non-solid 16Mbps download / 1Mbps upload to this.



Not sure about the ping, but not an issue now and will let the company check if it's normal due to the main HQ being ~1200km away. But I'm used to 150-180ms ping when playing in Euro severs, so won't bitch about it. :lollipop_tears_of_joy:

In case someone wondering, no, I didn't secure a preorder yet. Seems like the didn't open preorders here to begin with, but won't panic.

 
Last edited:

DJ Shalad

Formerly 'King Harkinian'
Dec 10, 2018
2,694
6,745
700
Ehh nah. He took over and fired Shawn Layden, and all of sudden PS Now got a reboot, price cut, marketing push along with big 1st party games got put on it.

Jim Ryan's Sony has been pushing PS Now much more than ever before.
But he knows that their business model is selling big games day 1 for max money, and the services are extra.

I doubt JimBro had anything to with it. Jim used to, is responsible for the EU market. Layden for the Japanese, later America. If someone sacked Layden, it was Kaz Hirai´s decision CEO of Sony. This is the new guy, since 2018 who made PSN a powerhouse ...



Its a guarantee on day 1 for all users saying "if you buy a XSX, you will have lots of games to play on it as soon as you set it up." All you need is Gamepass. Its a great way to give people lots of stuff to play.

Game prices went up. Especially with this economy now, many buyers will not want to spend hundreds on games all on day 1.

This will give me 120-150 games for "free" because I already have Gamepass and now as soon as I get my XSX, I'll have no shortage of top quality games to play, plus my backlog, plus Yakuza and Medium. Great call by MS.

Is this how you do it?
 
Last edited:
Sep 18, 2019
1,165
3,035
345
I take advantage of your reply to present something general.

Try (everyone) to read the following text objectively.

In times of load and "fineness in visual detail" (not resolution) the thing is in favor of PS5. I don't think it will change if things are done the way they have to.

Now, perceptibly for the user there might be no difference, which is what really matters. Demon's Souls Remake could look just as "good" in XSX without any problems. Surely with "longer" load times (few seconds), without the DualSense touch experience or immersive 3D sound (another type of sound, good too), but visually "identical" in one way or another (we could even debate about if in XSX higher refresh rates could be achieved, although for an exit title it doesn't really matter).

Likewise, all this is so relative ... it depends on the development study, it depends on the development time, the budget, if it is exclusive or not ... too many factors to be able to make a real comparison.

Also keep in mind that no "totally nextgen" gameplay has actually been seen (by any of them). And both can do much better things. The problem with MS is the lack of games that take advantage of its system and, if I am not mistaken, that absence will last for 1 more year. But once we start to see XSX games that really take advantage of the system, we can really be sure if more power is better or more efficiency is better. In practice we are talking about very similar percentage margins.

I think that we will have to wait and see what Ninja Theory achieves in XSX and Naughty Dog in PS5 (if possible in games with similar characteristics) to really know which is the best way (I am talking only about visual finish, regardless of the game's argument ).

As for the difference in Multiplatforms, the real difference "should" be less than that of this image.



In short, it all falls to development studies. It depends on which way they go they will obtain some results or others. Until then (2 or 3 years) it cannot really be valued. For now, in my opinion, the one that has to prove something now is XSX. And it will surely prove it (you need it).
First thanks for your reply. I agree with most of what you said. But there are others parameters we should use when we compare both machines. It's not only about the potential power of those machines (12tf vs 10tf). It's also about mature and easy APIs that can extract the most of the hardware in a short time (time to triangle).

For instance let's just compare Halo Infinite and horizon 2 / Spiderman. Those cross-gen games have to run on a 1.3-1.8 tflops hardware. Now let's just compare the results (imagine Craig meme here). And 343 Industries are working on Halo since 5 years and they are a much bigger team than Sony's teams.

Now the others game: just how great Ratchet & Clank already look. Demon's souls is in dev since 3 years by a relatively small team, and it's already the most impressive next-gen title.

Finally, almost all those Sony big titles are already using Ray tracing (Spiderman, R&C, Demon's souls and Gran Turismo 7) while MS is showcasing their big games on mighty powerful 2080ti cards... without ray tracing enabled (coming later in a patch).

And finally about Demon's souls, even with loadings times, maybe XSX hardware is not powerful enough (polygons & SSD) to run Demon's souls as it is. First the density of the levels need a machine tailered at designed tons of polygons (we know PS5 has the advantage here) and second maybe they are constantly streaming assets even in the same map, just before a new corridor like in the UE5 demo.
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
14,266
68,883
945
35
Salalah, Oman
Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem my dear, have you been able to secure PS5 yet? Im checking Sony stores and Amazon.sa but no luck

The preorder around us isn't open yet, even checked UAE's Geekay, they're among the first to get it, and you can preorder their, so I placed my interest there and number. Also Geekay in Muscat, my friend is there so told him to secure one for me ASAP when it's open. Called Carrefour as they deal directly with Jumbo, official Sony distributers and put my name and number there as well. Also got relatives in the UAE and told them to secure me one.

I mean, you can't be sure enough, lol. But we're getting it in 17-Nov, so expect them to open preorders like 3-4 days from now. Be strong, neighbor. :messenger_winking_tongue:(y)
 
Last edited:

Agnostic2020

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,672
19,827
805
You do realize that dmc is 4k 30 fps and 1080p 60 fps.

The downgrade in pixels is way too steep. 1440p 60 fps should be easily doable. But they are going to quarter res just to double the framerate? Something is off here.
Dude so xsx is also 5tf? Dmc5 is 1080p 60 on xsx as well. Do u seriously fall for bs from xbox era? (Source of this rumor)