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[prinz_valium]

Don't understand this logic one bit...

No silicon is running anywhere close to those frequencies on the same process at manufacturer validation.

The PS5 is the only outliner across all HPC categories.
That's very very significant.


After hearing the PS5 clocks first I thought, yeah next gen NVIDIA and AMD GPUs could run on higher clocks, but they won't
It will be similar to RTX 2000 and RX 5000 series.
So either they don't hit it often, or they invested heavily into achieving those. Those two are the only options. Because it's the same process and architecture. There is no magic involved. It somehow hast to be achieved.

 

[zaitsu]

No silicon is running anywhere close to those frequencies on the same process at manufacturer validation.

The PS5 is the only outliner across all HPC categories.
That's very very significant.


After hearing the PS5 clocks first I thought, yeah next gen NVIDIA and AMD GPUs could run on higher clocks, but they won't
It will be similar to RTX 2000 and RX 5000 series.
So either they don't hit it often, or they invested heavily into achieving those. Those two are the only options. Because it's the same process and architecture. There is no magic involved. It somehow hast to be achieved.

You sound dumb

 

[jose4gg]

No silicon is running anywhere close to those frequencies on the same process at manufacturer validation.

The PS5 is the only outliner across all HPC categories.
That's very very significant.


After hearing the PS5 clocks first I thought, yeah next gen NVIDIA and AMD GPUs could run on higher clocks, but they won't
It will be similar to RTX 2000 and RX 5000 series.
So either they don't hit it often, or they invested heavily into achieving those. Those two are the only options. Because it's the same process and architecture. There is no magic involved. It somehow hast to be achieved.

You are really using Nvidea architecture and comparing it to AMD new RDNA2 architecture of which we don't have any valid information yet?

 

[Razzy-]

No silicon is running anywhere close to those frequencies on the same process at manufacturer validation.

The PS5 is the only outliner across all HPC categories.
That's very very significant.


After hearing the PS5 clocks first I thought, yeah next gen NVIDIA and AMD GPUs could run on higher clocks, but they won't
It will be similar to RTX 2000 and RX 5000 series.
So either they don't hit it often, or they invested heavily into achieving those. Those two are the only options. Because it's the same process and architecture. There is no magic involved. It somehow hast to be achieved.

Do you happen to have valid benchmarks or data to have that claim? (frequency wise)
Or is this just speculating?

This wont bode well if you are just speculating.

 

[Metroiddarks]

No silicon is running anywhere close to those frequencies on the same process at manufacturer validation.

The PS5 is the only outliner across all HPC categories.
That's very very significant.


After hearing the PS5 clocks first I thought, yeah next gen NVIDIA and AMD GPUs could run on higher clocks, but they won't
It will be similar to RTX 2000 and RX 5000 series.
So either they don't hit it often, or they invested heavily into achieving those. Those two are the only options. Because it's the same process and architecture. There is no magic involved. It somehow hast to be achieved.

What are the rumors of RDNA 2 ? which are the sources of those rumors?

 

[kyliethicc]

No silicon is running anywhere close to those frequencies on the same process at manufacturer validation.

The PS5 is the only outliner across all HPC categories.
That's very very significant.


After hearing the PS5 clocks first I thought, yeah next gen NVIDIA and AMD GPUs could run on higher clocks, but they won't
It will be similar to RTX 2000 and RX 5000 series.
So either they don't hit it often, or they invested heavily into achieving those. Those two are the only options. Because it's the same process and architecture. There is no magic involved. It somehow hast to be achieved.

What are the frequencies and shader counts for the GPUs that you're comparing the PS5 to? Aren't all the AMD 6000 or Nvidia 3000 GPUs much larger in shader count and die size?

It's a bit unrealistic to compare a 36 CU GPU to a 60 CU GPU and expect the larger GPU to run at the same clocks.

They also use different node processes and different architecture.

 

[Crazychipmunx]

No silicon is running anywhere close to those frequencies on the same process at manufacturer validation.

The PS5 is the only outliner across all HPC categories.
That's very very significant.


After hearing the PS5 clocks first I thought, yeah next gen NVIDIA and AMD GPUs could run on higher clocks, but they won't
It will be similar to RTX 2000 and RX 5000 series.
So either they don't hit it often, or they invested heavily into achieving those. Those two are the only options. Because it's the same process and architecture. There is no magic involved. It somehow hast to be achieved.

Current Rx 5700xt cards can be overclocked to 2.1ghz. Not unimaginable with node advancements and ipc improvements, in conjuction with an exotic cooling system that PS5 can hit 2.23ghz

 

[prinz_valium]

Current Rx 5700xt cards can be overclocked to 2.1ghz. Not unimaginable with node advancements and ipc improvements, in conjuction with an exotic cooling system that PS5 can hit 2.23ghz

Can be overclocked. Sure. But that is not at all the same.
I can overclock golden sample cards to 2.3GHz under water.

But every single PS5 has to achieve the same clocks under various thermal conditions.
That's a total different ball game.

What are the frequencies and shader counts for the GPUs that you're comparing the PS5 to? Aren't all the AMD 6000 or Nvidia 3000 GPUs much larger in shader count and die size?

It's a bit unrealistic to compare a 36 CU GPU to a 60 CU GPU and expect the larger GPU to run at the same clocks.

They also use different node processes and different architecture.

That's true.
So war wie only know the frequencies for the big chips.
But in previous generations the mid range chips never run noticeably faster. They are often even slower.
As I said. PS5 would be the exception to every rule so far.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I find myself fascinated by cameras more than games nowadays.
Help me GAF, I'm slipping away

 

[Shmunter]

I find myself fascinated by cameras more than games nowadays.
Help me GAF, I'm slipping away

Take a selfie, smash the camera

 

[Elog]

The discussion about hardware and FPS shows such depths of ignorance it is hard to ignore. You can bring down every graphics card/GPU in existence at high resolutions to close to single-digit
FPS if you throw enough RT/post-processing on it, i.e. there is zero correlation between hardware specifications and the fact you have two FPS modes in a game.

 

[Mahavastu]

Not only could this be a shrewd move by Sony it may even mean an overall lower cost for the SSD?

The Best NVMe SSD for Laptops and Notebooks: SK hynix Gold P31 1TB SSD Reviewed

www.anandtech.com

Yepp, thats my take: much cheaper (because slower) NAND chips and less of them (PS5 has only 75% of the capacity of the XBox). You need a better controller (more channels, higher bandwith), but compared to the savings in NAND chips this should cost next to nothing.
I am confident that the PS5 SSD solution is noticable cheaper then the Xbox solution, despite the insane performance.

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

Cool video.

That gives us a better Idea

Besides light, textures, geometry, particle effects being noticeable better in r&c 5 what’s is awesome for me also is ratchet all new set of moves and the quality of the animations making him appear much more alive, dynamic and believable...

Day one for me!!

 

[zaitsu]

Yepp, thats my take: much cheaper (because slower) NAND chips and less of them (PS5 has only 75% of the capacity of the XBox). You need a better controller (more channels, higher bandwith), but compared to the savings in NAND chips this should cost next to nothing.
I am confident that the PS5 SSD solution is noticable cheaper then the Xbox solution, despite the insane performance.

Probably production is much cheaper than XSX solution.
Most of costs were on design side.

 

[HAL-01]

The discussion about hardware and FPS shows such depths of ignorance it is hard to ignore. You can bring down every graphics card/GPU in existence at high resolutions to close to single-digit
FPS if you throw enough RT/post-processing on it, i.e. there is zero correlation between hardware specifications and the fact you have two FPS modes in a game.

The huge jump in target resolution makes it so that developers feel more comfortable providing options that give up some pixels for more fps. You can comfortably cut 4K res in half (1500p) to be able to reach higher framerates and the game would still look great. If you had cut a ps4 game down to 720p to achieve 60fps you'd probably have been burned at the stake

 

[thelastword]

Wonder how this game will look on PS4 and Xbox One

Really impressed with this. I hope it plays just like what I saw in the trailer.......It looks like what Devil's Third should have been......

Has a little bit of Shadow Warrior inspiration. love the setting and enemies in this one.....Main character looks great too......Great designs.

 

[Elog]

The huge jump in target resolution makes it so that developers feel more comfortable providing options that give up some pixels for more fps. You can comfortably cut 4K res in half (1500p) to be able to reach higher framerates and the game would still look great. If you had cut a ps4 game down to 720p to achieve 60fps you'd probably have been burned at the stake

Completely agree and hence why I wrote high-resolutions. At these levels any GPU can be made to crawl - makes a lot of sense to allow gamers to choose between FPS and eye-candy at these resolutions.

 

[zaitsu]

Completely agree and hence why I wrote high-resolutions. At these levels any GPU can be made to crawl - makes a lot of sense to allow gamers to choose between FPS and eye-candy at these resolutions.

Ive played 30 fps fine for i dont know how many years. If its solid/stable, it doesnt bother me at all.

Give me more eye-candy graphic.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

I mean look at this pathetic article comment...

Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is only 60fps if you lower the resolution

The new Ratchet & Clank for PS5 will have options for both 30fps and 60fps, but the latter won't support 4K resolution.

metro.co.uk

'Many will welcome the return of 60fps gameplay but the fact that there are two separate options, with one prioritising frame rate and the other graphics, does suggest that the PlayStation 5 isn’t quite as powerful as many would’ve hoped.'

They do at least get called out in the comments...

Clearly no understanding of what's being done in this game and how much it is pushing at 4k.

Exactly, people give a pass on The Medium because "is rendering 2 worlds at the same time" or use excuses on games like AC Valhalla like "it's because it's an open world game" but even when R&C is doing more visually impressive stuff they just complain.

 

[Handy Fake]

I mean look at this pathetic article comment...

Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart is only 60fps if you lower the resolution

The new Ratchet & Clank for PS5 will have options for both 30fps and 60fps, but the latter won't support 4K resolution.

metro.co.uk

'Many will welcome the return of 60fps gameplay but the fact that there are two separate options, with one prioritising frame rate and the other graphics, does suggest that the PlayStation 5 isn’t quite as powerful as many would’ve hoped.'

They do at least get called out in the comments...

Clearly no understanding of what's being done in this game and how much it is pushing at 4k.

The Metro is the UK free paper, left on the bars in Wetherspoons for those who want a 9am pint, and used by the homeless to pad the ground.

 

[INC]

Exactly, people give a pass on The Medium because "is rendering 2 worlds at the same time" or use excuses on games like AC Valhalla like "it's because it's an open world game" but even when R&C is doing more visually impressive stuff they just complain.

Anyone who has played previous RnC games, could see instantly it looks next gen
Its a lovely looking game, great release window game

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

No silicon is running anywhere close to those frequencies on the same process at manufacturer validation.

The PS5 is the only outliner across all HPC categories.
That's very very significant.


After hearing the PS5 clocks first I thought, yeah next gen NVIDIA and AMD GPUs could run on higher clocks, but they won't
It will be similar to RTX 2000 and RX 5000 series.
So either they don't hit it often, or they invested heavily into achieving those. Those two are the only options. Because it's the same process and architecture. There is no magic involved. It somehow hast to be achieved.

Man if this is true that is another testament of Sony prowess.. very impressive from them, and that cooling solution must be really state of the art..

And I think the games are already showing that ps5 may in fact being punching above is weight.. that r&c demo is really impressive if they manage 1440p injected to 4K at 60fps retaining RT in the performance mode is safe to say this gen we are for treat..

 

[Killer Sakoman]

I find myself fascinated by cameras more than games nowadays.
Help me GAF, I'm slipping away

Find ghosts in your house and take pictures of them. They will die

 

[husomc]

For some reason in this part reflections are no longer RT. That's strange, considering they improved them in other places.

actually reflections are now RT. earlier it was a mix of RT and screenspace reflections. check out the NXgamer video for the full breakdown.

 

[husomc]

Oh damn, I didn't see any of that news. Are Evolution just majorly incompetent then?

Personally I feel that Polyphony digital were feeling a bit insecure with the work being done by Evolution and in order to avoid a catfight Sony had to let them go. Driveclub was one of my favourite racing games on PS4.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Yepp, thats my take: much cheaper (because slower) NAND chips and less of them (PS5 has only 75% of the capacity of the XBox). You need a better controller (more channels, higher bandwith), but compared to the savings in NAND chips this should cost next to nothing.
I am confident that the PS5 SSD solution is noticable cheaper then the Xbox solution, despite the insane performance.

I remember a couple of years ago now when we started to take more note of what Sony were up to on their financials/IR Days re: PS5 and they massively increased R&D spend and Sony talked about bending before leaping. This is where/when the SSD NRE was paid for (with that juicy PS+ profit).

That those low speed 533M/T NAND chips are very plentiful, mature (around since 2017?) as well as cheap and are available in the huge quantities Sony need (12-16 million a month).

Of course this doesn't mean PS5 will automatically be a cheaper or cheap console. If Microsoft don't/can't put up a fight Sony can basically get away with almost any price. Which is what I worry about.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

No silicon is running anywhere close to those frequencies on the same process at manufacturer validation.

The PS5 is the only outliner across all HPC categories.
That's very very significant.


After hearing the PS5 clocks first I thought, yeah next gen NVIDIA and AMD GPUs could run on higher clocks, but they won't
It will be similar to RTX 2000 and RX 5000 series.
So either they don't hit it often, or they invested heavily into achieving those. Those two are the only options. Because it's the same process and architecture. There is no magic involved. It somehow hast to be achieved.

I have a high end PC, I know it's painful for high end PC owners to see a cheap console do something they can't even dream of. The faster you deal with it, the faster you'll find peace inside.

 

[sircaw]

I have a high end PC, I know it's painful for high end PC owners to see a cheap console do something they can't even dream of. The faster you deal with it, the faster you'll find peace inside.

damn bo, why don't you just throw a mountain on the dude too.

Brutal

 

[FunkMiller]

Wonder how this game will look on PS4 and Xbox One

Question: why fill a two hour show with mostly boring shit, guaranteed to put most of us off from watching any more, when you could show stuff like this?

I have a high end PC, I know it's painful for high end PC owners to see a cheap console do something they can't even dream of. The faster you deal with it, the faster you'll find peace inside.

You absolute savage

 

[Bo_Hazem]

damn bo, why don't you just throw a mountain on the dude too.

Brutal

They feel gutted and in denial like this Porsche 918 owner when he got his ass handed to him:

It's painful to watch all your hard-earned money spent into your elite tool then get smashed by a low-income peasant.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Yepp, thats my take: much cheaper (because slower) NAND chips and less of them (PS5 has only 75% of the capacity of the XBox). You need a better controller (more channels, higher bandwith), but compared to the savings in NAND chips this should cost next to nothing.
I am confident that the PS5 SSD solution is noticable cheaper then the Xbox solution, despite the insane performance.

Then how is Xbox ever going to match PS5 pricing when the GPU is so much more expensive? They can just match it, but it has to make sense business wise of course.

 

[saintjules]

 

[kyliethicc]

That's true.
So war wie only know the frequencies for the big chips.
But in previous generations the mid range chips never run noticeably faster. They are often even slower.
As I said. PS5 would be the exception to every rule so far.

The leaked 3080 spec I saw runs at a higher clock than the 3090. Smaller, but faster. They often can't make the larger GPUs hit the same clocks without going over power budgets or overheating the card.

The mid range smaller PC GPUs are intentionally designed to run roughly at same or slower clocks to make the performance gaps larger to sell more high end GPUs. They're not trying to make a smaller and a larger version of the same flagship GPU. They make 1 flagship, maybe 2 high end cards, then just make each one below that worse performance but lower price.

Its a business choice not a technical limit.

Not very relevant for this comparison. If the 5700 and the 6700 run at around the same frequencies, but the 6700 is much larger, then it makes perfect sense why the PS5 is able to be clocked so high. Its relatively small compared to the XSX GPU and upcoming 2020 PC GPUs.

By your logic, the Series X will also not be able to hit its clock because its still a high frequency GPU and much larger than the PS5 GPU. Thats not true either of course.

Microsoft said the 40 CU @ 1.172 GHz XONEX GPU and the 52 CU @ 1.825 GHz XSX GPU draw roughly the same power. They raised the frequency a lot, added a lot of additional CUs that are also each larger, and didn't have to raise the power draw.

RDNA 2 on 7nm is much more efficient clearly.

For PS5 Sony didn't add any more CUs, they just raised clocks a lot from the PS4 Pro 36 CUs @ 911 MHz. And each PS5 CU is roughly 60% larger than PS4 Pro GPU CUs. So its safe to assume the PS5 GPU is drawing roughly the same amount of power as the PS4 Pro GPU draws.

I see no reason why they can't hit the clocks they have. Both machines will likely have no issues. New architecture and a new smaller node process should explain why they were able to go to much higher frequencies with larger CUs with far more transistors.

 

[kyliethicc]

Personally I feel that Polyphony digital were feeling a bit insecure with the work being done by Evolution and in order to avoid a catfight Sony had to let them go. Driveclub was one of my favourite racing games on PS4.

It was launched broken and over a year late. It had shit servers. I highly doubt it had anything to do with PD. Just a bad game. They got reformed and then shut down again few years later by Codemasters so they're the issue, not PD.

 

[Angel of BOOM!]

Personally I feel that Polyphony digital were feeling a bit insecure with the work being done by Evolution and in order to avoid a catfight Sony had to let them go. Driveclub was one of my favourite racing games on PS4.

Sorry but that's simply not true.

 

[saintjules]

 

[SaucyJack]

The irony.

 

[saintjules]

As far as I can find online, the company he works at is some unknown web marketing firm that he either owns, directs or both, and that seems to be directed mostly at Italian buisnesses.

The gaming website he wrote for is also so small it's not even a blink on the radar as far as Italian gaming websites go, let alone internationally.

I too wrote for a small Italian gaming website for quite some time, we probably averaged better views than his going by the figures they themself give. With those metrics, we were still the low man on the totem pole when review copies had to be distributed, and we barely got invited to press events at all.

Even when that happens, for low-profile Italian media you often go through some local contact for the publisher, distributor (like Koch Media) or PR firm, you don't communicate directly with people who are anywhere near the central war room in US or Japan; so even if somebody there decides to commit career suicide and starts giving out tips to people with way too few contacts to hope you won't be found out, that is in and of itself second, third or more hand information too.

So yeah, unless he has a completely separate set of past careers he didn't link on Twitter and LinkedIn, I'm pretty confident he's just lying his ass off.

I guess one thing to take note was that he said he was vetted by a moderator. I'd imagine saying something like that and lying about it would get you banned? Or it's all an inside Job, who knows

 

[saintjules]

The irony.

Thats like...having a taste of your own medicine

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

I find myself fascinated by cameras more than games nowadays.
Help me GAF, I'm slipping away

The answer is actually in not coming to this website. It will make anyone hate games after long enough.

 

[Darklor01]

They feel gutted and in denial like this Porsche 918 owner when he got his ass handed to him:

It's painful to watch all your hard-earned money spent into your elite tool then get smashed by a low-income peasant.

 

[Mahavastu]

Then how is Xbox ever going to match PS5 pricing when the GPU is so much more expensive? They can just match it, but it has to make sense business wise of course.

I guess they just have to...
I know, you are more of an XBox person, but it seems that despite the (most likely slightly) weaker performance of the PS5 the Playstation is more attractive to more people. If the XBox has much less momentum, fewer "must have" games and is more expensive, XBox has a problem.

An example is the XBox One X: it was more expensive to manufacture than the PS4Pro (much larger SoC, 50% more memory, more expensive cooling). Microsoft tried to sell it $100 more expensive, but had to match the PS4 Pro after a while.
During Corona they had sales where the OneX was $100 cheaper then the PS4Pro, despite higher manufacturing costs.

Not healthy in the long run, except you expect the additional income to pay for it.
For example Sony said in 2019 that until then each launch PS4 generated $1600 in overall sales, so it is possible to cover the initial subsidizing over time.

 

[CrysisFreak]

Ps5 caNNoT d0 4kay60eff-pee-ess cuZ it'S ev3N w0rs3 thaN xBone 1X

 

[kyliethicc]

Here's my estimates for the PS5 dimensions btw.
I measured the images many, many times and I think these are pretty accurate.

PS5
~ 39 x 21 x 10 cm (vertical w/ stand)
~ 11 x 21 x 38 cm (horizontal w/ stand)
stand diameter ~ 14 cm

PS5 Digital
~ 39 x 21 x 9 cm (vertical w/ stand)
~ 10 x 21 x 38 cm (horizontal w/ stand)
stand diameter ~ 14 cm

The only issue is that the angles of the images we have so far are limited, and the PS5 doesn't have any right angles, and its almost entirely asymmetric. Its a very odd shape, its not a just a box with parallel edges, so its exact dimensions are hard to messure.

 

[kyliethicc]

Ps5 caNNoT d0 4kay60eff-pee-ess cuZ it'S ev3N w0rs3 thaN xBone 1X

Knack 3 720p 30 FPS confirmed

 

[SaucyJack]

I guess one thing to take note was that he said he was vetted by a moderator. I'd imagine saying something like that and lying about it would get you banned? Or it's all an inside Job, who knows

Mod-verified is like a blue check on Twitter. You know the person is real but it’s no guarantee that they won't spout a load of bullshit.

 

[zaitsu]

I guess they just have to...
I know, you are more of an XBox person, but it seems that despite the (most likely slightly) weaker performance of the PS5 the Playstation is more attractive to more people. If the XBox has much less momentum, fewer "must have" games and is more expensive, XBox has a problem.

An example is the XBox One X: it was more expensive to manufacture than the PS4Pro (much larger SoC, 50% more memory, more expensive cooling). Microsoft tried to sell it $100 more expensive, but had to match the PS4 Pro after a while.
During Corona they had sales where the OneX was $100 cheaper then the PS4Pro, despite higher manufacturing costs.

Not healthy in the long run, except you expect the additional income to pay for it.
For example Sony said in 2019 that until then each launch PS4 generated $1600 in overall sales, so it is possible to cover the initial subsidizing over time.

I mean Spencer said that they will have power and price. He never said that in one console.

 

[yewles1]

Thats like...having a taste of your own medicine

That's a Kick in the covidicles.

 

[Darklor01]

Here's my estimates for the PS5 dimensions btw.
I measured the images many, many times and I think these are pretty accurate.

PS5
~ 39 x 21 x 10 cm (vertical w/ stand)
~ 11 x 21 x 38 cm (horizontal w/ stand)
stand diameter ~ 14 cm

PS5 Digital
~ 38 x 21 x 9 cm (vertical w/ stand)
~ 10 x 21 x 38 cm (horizontal w/ stand)
stand diameter ~ 14 cm

The only issue is that the angles of the images we have so far are limited, and the PS5 doesn't have any right angles, and its almost entirely asymmetric. Its a very odd shape, its not a just a box with parallel edges, so its exact dimensions are hard to messure.

Question, how can something be Not equally long on its side as it is tall standing up?

 

[kyliethicc]

Then how is Xbox ever going to match PS5 pricing when the GPU is so much more expensive? They can just match it, but it has to make sense business wise of course.

PS4 Pro was $400. Xbox One X was $500.

Microsoft is the one making a less expensive model, the Series S (Lockhart.) That says the Series X is gonna be expensive.

PS5 $500, XSX $600, XSS $400 could happen.