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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
M for mobility and G for integrated... at least on AMD side.
M labeled cards for nvidia are designed for laptops and are way underpowered.

A 5800M would be closer to a theoretical 5650 than a 5750. If the same downgrade exists for amd.

You never want an M card in anything you buy. They are terrible wastes of money.
 
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Munki

Member
This is CNET specs from last article:



xF64fn7.png

Arcturus confirmed?
 

Fake

Member
M labeled cards for nvidia are designed for laptops and are way underpowered.

A 5800M would be closer to a theoretical 5650 than a 5750. If the same downgrade exists for amd.

You never want an M card in anything you buy. They are terrible wastes of money.
I was a PC gamer a long time ago. I was talking about notebooks inself. Held two, one with G (Samsung) and other with both G and M (HP) in their gpu ID.
Arcturus confirmed?
Dunno as well. I don't know in what place CNET found that, but the article was up.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
M means massively underpowered as well.

You can't base it off the retail card, but you can use the basic architecture for a custom design....It's much more likely than getting some future card that "runs circles around s 2080ti".

I love consoles and play them more than my pc but a new console will never be more powerful than an enthusiast pc. Ergo ps5 isnt going to even touch a 2080 super, let alone a 2080ti.

Whatever it is we haven’t seen it yet.

Mark Cerny straight up said "there is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware". So, we know at least one AMD Navi GPU in 2020 will support hardware-level ray tracing.

 

LordOfChaos

Member
Here's a hoot. First people were insisting PS5 only had software RT when it was unclear in the first Wired article, then when Cerny addressed that directly and said it was hardware in the second one, it's this. How would you even make RT only applicable to shadows, makes no sense.

And that's before I noticed the username :messenger_tears_of_joy:

 

MadAnon

Member
The M stands for Mobile obviously.
I’m just pointing out the facts, you can’t base it off the 5700 because the whole architecture changes with the introduction of RT.
Those are not facts! Look at Nvidia Turing. GTX 1660ti and lower models have the same Turing arch without ray tracing cores. They didn't need to make 2 different archs to make a GPU with and without RT cores. They just stripped the RT, tensor cores and here you go! But somehow AMD haven't thought longterm and they need to overhaul their arch just to add RT solution?
 
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bitbydeath

Member
That's so wrong. Look at Nvidia Turing. GTX 1660ti and lower is the same Turing arch without ray tracing cores. They didn't need to make 2 different archs to make a GPU with and without RT cores. They just stripped the RT, tensor cores and here you go! But somehow AMD haven't thought longterm and they need to overhaul their arch just to add their RT solution? And it so happens to be that it will be called RDNA2 and not some completely new arch name.

Well they did patent the specific RT design which goes into detail of the entire GPU and not just adding cores to an old unit.


Maybe, crazy thought here.. maybe, their current design just doesn't support Ray Tracing?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Here's a hoot. First people were insisting PS5 only had software RT when it was unclear in the first Wired article, then when Cerny addressed that directly and said it was hardware in the second one, it's this. How would you even make RT only applicable to shadows, makes no sense.

And that's before I noticed the username :messenger_tears_of_joy:



Please don’t post this retard’s shit.

😂
 
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Whatever you say chief. You can try to discredit numbers I posted, but fact is. PS2 die size > PS3 die size > PS4 die size > PS4 Pro die size > ??

For MS its the same so perhaps they know more then us?
I'd argue it's far more likely to get the exact same 400mm2 APU for both Sony and MS (yeah, this means console wars will be dead), with slightly different clocks/cooling systems.

Why? Economies of scale, Azure partnership (common PS5/XB2 server blades) etc. MS can pony up some extra cash if needed.

Also, 7nm wafers will be dirt cheap next year. Costs always drop over time, but you seem to forget that. Wafer prices are not static.

Here's a hoot. First people were insisting PS5 only had software RT when it was unclear in the first Wired article, then when Cerny addressed that directly and said it was hardware in the second one, it's this. How would you even make RT only applicable to shadows, makes no sense.

And that's before I noticed the username :messenger_tears_of_joy:


Gears 5 already has raytraced shadows. Even Killzone Shadowfall (2013 launch PS4 game) has a limited form of RT for reflections.

It's gotta be something more than that to justify the silicon expenditure, otherwise what's the point?

Those are not facts! Look at Nvidia Turing. GTX 1660ti and lower is the same Turing arch without ray tracing cores. They didn't need to make 2 different archs to make a GPU with and without RT cores. They just stripped the RT, tensor cores and here you go! But somehow AMD haven't thought longterm and they need to overhaul their arch just to add their RT solution?
nVidia uses discrete pipelines, while AMD's RT solution seems to be more intertwined with the CUs:


Maybe it's not that simple.
 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
Richard mentions he heard Sony went with "smart" SOC.

For me this pretty much confirms PCB leak. 316mm² with 1/4th of cache and 256 bit coupled with fastest RAM available next year.
Agreed. I think the smart part refers to the BC above all. Then gratuitous NAND DRAM, and (imo) hybrid/shader-based RT. I was going back over the leak to refresh my memory. I put some findings in this quote to prevent clutter.


I'm all about that Reddit PCB leak, as well. I'm sure it's been gone over, but I was looking at the leak today and they mention "4 NAND packages soldered to the PCB which are TH58LJT2T24BAEG from Toshiba". Toshiba had those on the XG6 1TB and they are 512GB capacity each, which indicates 2TB(devkit likely 1TB retail?). The interesting part is that whereas in the past a 1GB-to-1TB DRAM to NAND ratio was common, now with the XG6 they included 512MB DRAM buffer. This is reason behind the wording in the leak, "unusual 2GB DRAM per 1 TB NAND". To me that indicates 4GB DRAM in retail 1TB config.

Also mentioned is that the NAND is soldered to the PCB, so no upgradeable SSD/HDD imo. They'll probably allow external storage, but require that you get it onto the 1TB internal drive to play.

As you mentioned there's also the ultra fast Samsung K4ZAF325BM-HC18 GDDR6 memory. That might take slight underclock in retail unit.
 

MadAnon

Member
Well they did patent the specific RT design which goes into detail of the entire GPU and not just adding cores to an old unit.


Maybe, crazy thought here.. maybe, their current design just doesn't support Ray Tracing?
Sony and MS don't just work with finished chip designs from AMD which they then just glue together into an APU. They share blueprints. Sony has their own engineering team that works with AMD to make a custom chip based on AMD's blueprints. They can literally make a RDNA and RDNA2 hybrid which is not a full RDNA2 design but borrows elements that are implemented into their custom solution. Yeah, that means it could borrow the RT design parts and implement them into their design. So it doesn't have to be a full RDNA2. If there would be compatibility issues then it wouldn't be called RDNA2. It clearly fallows the RDNA design. How hard it is to understand this part?

And it seems like devkits with the final design of the ps5 APU are out there because EA dev talked about already experimenting with RT and machine learning capabilities of the gpu. Last time I saw AMDs presentation not long ago, the RDNA2 was classified as still in design phase. Something doesn't add up here. Sony is waiting until AMD will finish RDNA2 design and then quickly cobble together an APU? I don't think so.
 
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Aceofspades

Banned
Richard mentions he heard Sony went witj "smart" SOC.

For me this pretty much confirms PCB leak. 316mm² with 1/4th of cache and 256 bit coupled with fastest RAM available next year.

Tbh I like it better then speculated 350mm² Scarlett one.

PS5 will have smaller silicon than Scarlett while being more powerful. You know how? HBM3 baby !!
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
At this point and IMO I don't even care, but both ZhugeEX and Nibel receive this material.
At some point they gonna split out anw.

Of course they did, they’re nothing but corporate hype machines for MS at the moment.

There are plenty of examples recently. From Microsoft giving them keys to hand out, changing their logo to MS event branding, to them quickly closing threads that were news stories painting Xbox in a negative light, all the way to Stinkles Reetisms every other day.

People buying this as legit “leaks” are being naive. Just be honest, posers. There is no coincidence this is popping up right after the PS5 more info dump.
 
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Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
Here's a hoot. First people were insisting PS5 only had software RT when it was unclear in the first Wired article, then when Cerny addressed that directly and said it was hardware in the second one, it's this. How would you even make RT only applicable to shadows, makes no sense.

And that's before I noticed the username :messenger_tears_of_joy:


RT isnt just one "effect". Its a method of achieving a number of effects.

The ones I know of are ray traced shadows, ambient occlusion, reflections, indirect lighting, indirect shadows, global illumination and I believe audio.

You can use any of those by themselves. For example the RT in the last Tomb Raider games I believe was just raytraced shadows and ao.
 
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mitchman

Gold Member
Why would they use thunderbolt considering its Intels proprietary technology? USB 4.0 makes much more sense considering its basically thunderbolt without the licensing fees.

"Today, Intel announced that it contributed the Intel Thunderbolt protocol specification to the USB Promoter Group, enabling other chip makers to build Thunderbolt compatible silicon, royalty-free. "
 

GermanZepp

Member
PS5 will have an AMD Ryzen processor with 8 cores and 16 threads, confirms Famitsu
Although it was taken for granted, it is now confirmed that PlayStation 5 will have an AMD processor with 8 cores and 16 threads, and that for the official presentation of the console will have to wait until 2020.
Famitsu
 

LordOfChaos

Member
RT isnt just one "effect". Its a method of achieving a number of effects.

The ones I know of are ray traced shadows, ambient occlusion, reflections, indirect lighting, indirect shadows, global illumination and I believe audio.

You can use any of those by themselves. For example the RT in the last Tomb Raider games I believe was just raytraced shadows and ao.


Exactly. Once you solve for fast ray casting it makes no sense that it would be limited to any one of those, the power can be used whichever way a developer wants. Didn't really post Mr X as a discussion point but rather "let's laugh at this dumbass", lol.
 
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FranXico

Member
We'd never hear the end of the fanboy drama if the Xbox was more powerful than the PS5 🚑
We are already getting plenty of drama from Xbox fanatics just at the mere suggestion of a PS5 on par with Xbox. Shouts of "the RT is just software!!" everywhere.
 
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Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
Exactly. Once you solve for fast ray casting it makes no sense that it would be limited to any one of those, the power can be used whichever way a developer wants. Didn't really post Mr X as a discussion point but rather "let's laugh at this dumbass", lol.
Not true. RT reflections are much more expensive than RT AO or shadows.

In control enabling a few RT features doesn't hurt performance all that much but once I enable Reflections, or if I only enable reflections, the performance takes a punch to the face.

Not all RT techniques have the same cost. AO and shadows are cheaper just like the Digital Foundry guys said. Which is why they will be the most used on PS5 and XBX2. I highly doubt RT reflections show up on more than a couple PS5 games during its lifetime. If a 2080ti cannot handle them then the weaker PS5/XBX gpu wont either. Unless of coarse AMD knocks Nvidia out of the ring with their RT implementation, but when was the last time AMD beat Nvidia at anything "GPUwise" other than being the lowest bidder?
 
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Not true. RT reflections are much more expensive than RT AO or shadows.

In control enabling a few RT features doesn't hurt performance all that much but once I enable Reflections, or if I only enable reflections, the performance takes a punch to the face.

Not all RT techniques have the same cost. AO and shadows are cheaper just like the Digital Foundry guys said. Which is why they will be the most used on PS5 and XBX2. I highly doubt RT reflections show up on more than a couple PS5 games during its lifetime. If a 2080ti cannot handle them then the weaker PS5/XBX gpu wont either. Unless of coarse AMD knocks Nvidia out of the ring with their RT implementation, but when was the last time AMD beat Nvidia at anything "GPUwise" other than being the lowest bidder?

What about Global Illumination? That's what I look forward to the most as it has the largest impact on lighting as it makes things look like they belong in the scene.
 
Ive seen it the document that Klobrille sent to Nibel. i also verified its authenticity at e3 with someone who I showed to on my phone and well this person is in the know on subject. It does make claims of power
 

pawel86ck

Banned
Not true. RT reflections are much more expensive than RT AO or shadows.

In control enabling a few RT features doesn't hurt performance all that much but once I enable Reflections, or if I only enable reflections, the performance takes a punch to the face.

Not all RT techniques have the same cost. AO and shadows are cheaper just like the Digital Foundry guys said. Which is why they will be the most used on PS5 and XBX2. I highly doubt RT reflections show up on more than a couple PS5 games during its lifetime. If a 2080ti cannot handle them then the weaker PS5/XBX gpu wont either. Unless of coarse AMD knocks Nvidia out of the ring with their RT implementation, but when was the last time AMD beat Nvidia at anything "GPUwise" other than being the lowest bidder?
Agree with a lot of it, but turing GPU's use very few RT cores (even 2080ti). If AMD found a way to accelerate RT operations on shader units, then RT performance on next xbox and playstation should easily surpass even 2080ti RT performance.

BTW. guys, SonGoku is still with us?
 
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Not my place to show. I just wanted to make point that document is real or was created, and at e3 i verified it and was told it was from internal document from MS by someone who would absolutely know. Just means at one time they targeted being most powerful . We will find out one day .
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Not my place to show. I just wanted to make point that document is real or was created, and at e3 i verified it and was told it was from internal document from MS by someone who would absolutely know. Just means at one time they targeted being most powerful . We will find out one day .

Ah yes, as I said before. Strategic "leaks".

Thanks for the info.
 
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