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[Hoddi]

I kinda feel sorry for Series S owners. I mean I get it, its a cheaper piece of hardware that will play the same games but when you get down to it... Does it really? You miss features, you miss the framerates, you miss the textures/RT, half the storage, can't play blu-ray movies... Just get a Series X (or PS5), its not that much more.

No need. I bought mine for an old 1080p plasma that I don't want to throw out and it's worked perfectly well so far. I have my PS5 on the same TV and can't really tell the difference in most games.

I also have a Series X on a 4k OLED in my living room. But I barely use it because the motion clarity is so crap on that TV. For me, the Series S has been great for what it does at being a 1080p console.

 

[ChiefDada]

What I don't understand is if the series x/s cpu is the bottleneck that limits performance to 30fps (shaky) for the sake of consistency, then why is the ryzen 3600 listed as the recommended spec and not minimum? Wouldn't the Series performance profile suggest as much?

 

[balls of snow]

Hahaha. Watch how their tune changes by this time next year. Especially from the company who hates being beaten on power.

 

[balls of snow]

Now Todd Howard saying he plays starfield on the series s makes all the sense in the world.

 

[Joramun]

Series X owners.

Do you think the console is being used to its full potential?

Or is a more powerful pro version required for upcoming games?

 

[solidus12]

We really ran the entire gauntlet here. DF, Starfield, cerney, 9.2tf, 60 FPS.

You forgot to mention the Series S being more powerful than PS5

 

[SkylineRKR]

Well in this case their standard machine is selling considerably less and also doesn't feature a disc drive.

 

[Pallas]

Yes, I'm super upset over console talking points. In reality my response to you was typed while I was sitting on the toilet.

And yes, the Sony side was just as bad (outside of the SSD the custom Geometry Engine was hyped to high heaven). I remember the next-gen discussion thread and trust me both sides were pro at flinging shit around. I probably have the entire Mark Cerny presentation memorized with the sheer amount of times it has been posted here.

True, Xbox side gets highlighted a lot for their dumb fanboy shit and misinformation but the other side isn’t innocent either. I remember that very large thread about last gens re-hash that was eventually locked. Both sides are guilty of bullshit, shilling abs astroturfing.


Also I don’t really feel like we need mid gen upgrades this generation.

It was obvious the vanilla ps4 and even more significant the original Xbox one was already underpowered and probably obsolete when they launched.

This gen, both consoles feel powerful but I imagine if a Ps5 pro is in the works, Microsoft are aware of it. Would be interesting if their plans change because of it.

 

[Max_Po]

dumbest shit I have read today.

 

[SirTerry-T]

Exactly the same expression a baby makes as it's pissing and shitting itself.

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

If the timestamp isn't working then it's 3 minutes 10 seconds in.

John states that they consider the Series S to be the "standard machine" and that the Series X was to get out there ahead of time in terms of what they would consider to be a refresh.

Old news DF already said this ages ago when MS first told them. They even recorded the day MS invited them to see their then next gen console.

 

[Silver Wattle]

2nd GPU in all series X confirmed! Will it be a free mid gen patch to unlock or will it be like a expansion pack?

 

[Godot25]

Xbox can only release a Series X Pro if they actually abandon either Series S or X.

Actually, I can imagine a world where they just keep the S but the Series X itself is discontinued. Because I can't imagine a world where Xbox would seriously sustain 3 SKUs and scare away third party developers.

Yeah. It's not like developers had to release their games on 7 SKUs in last three years, right?

 

[PropellerEar]

So did the guys at DF kill your cat or something? Seems rather personal over mere video games analysis.

One of them admitted on this forum to peddling MSFT sponsored content as real analysis.

 

[Barakov]

If the timestamp isn't working then it's 3 minutes 10 seconds in.

John states that they consider the Series S to be the "standard machine" and that the Series X was to get out there ahead of time in terms of what they would consider to be a refresh.

So their mid-gen refresh has problems keeping up with the base PS5.

 

[systemr123]

So their mid-gen refresh has problems keeping up with the base PS5.

PS5 eats monsters for breakfast… oh wait… . Hilariously bad from MS this.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It's time to change my user name to Series X then.

 

[Zathalus]

A planet where the price to performance value proposition has swung dramatically in favor of consoles in comparison to prior generation
A planet where the prospect of Enterprise AI solutions has allowed NVidia stock to nearly triple in value over the past 6 months.
A planet where AMD has hopped on said Enterprise AI trend, which will inevitably lead to an even greater squeeze for PC gaming market.

PC gamers have effectively become second class citizens having to contend with drastically higher prices because of this AI future, it is understandably a tough/sucky situation and I sincerely mean that. I think Sony understands now more than ever that they can successfully court a greater share of the PC market with a mid gen refresh this time around because of the aforementioned market dynamics.



See above. Is it wise to bet the farm on a price/performance measure in favor of Nvidia midrange GPU over a hypothetical 2024 PS5 Pro, knowing what we know today? Be honest.



PC gaming market can experience market size growth ($) and have market share decline (% in relation to alternatives/competitors).

The AI focus is not great for gamers as Nvidia is going to dedicate a larger focus to that market. But this applies directly to AMD as well. They absolutely will follow and who knows what impact that would have on future GPU design for both of them. This will impact SoC design as well, which in turn impacts both Sony and MS. That being said, the discrete GPU market is still massive and Nvidia will make sure to not loose that revenue stream if AMD actually starts significantly threatening it.

As for a hypothetical 5070 vs a PS5 Pro, realistically how powerful do you think the PS5 Pro will be? End of 2024 will mean 5/4nm at best as 3nm will still be very expensive. That really limits the maximum performance that can be achieved. Assuming some IPC increase and a larger power budget, double the PS5 raster performance seems the limit. So 3090 performance or thereabouts. The 4070 is already the power of the 3080 so even assuming lackluster increases the 5070 will likely still end up faster then a PS5 Pro, especially in RT.

As for Market Share most research has shown the PC share to have increased vs console.

 

[dDoc]

WOW! How could I ever doubt MS's chops? They released their main current gen console AND the mid gen refresh AT THE SAME TIME!

 

[X-Wing]

Didn't sx use xb one versions of games?
If I recall correctly nearly all xbo only games ran worse anyway than ps4.

Had SX used ps4 versions instead of one, the story would have been quite different.

I’m not sure how to react to this…

 

[93xfan]

Honestly, they need to be aggressive with that Series S pricing. Should’ve been $249 last year imo. It needs to be priced as an entry level machine. Maybe do a bigger discount for those who sign up to the Gamepass subscription if need be.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Series X owners.

Do you think the console is being used to its full potential?

Or is a more powerful pro version required for upcoming games?

I ended up just getting a PC, might sell my Series X.

A mid-gen refresh is a silly idea because we have yet to see any “real next gen” games to justify buying a new console.

The series X seems to underperform for multi platform games which means it isn’t as powerful as Xbox said it was or devs need more time with it to tap into it’s true potential.

 

[Darsxx82]

I think if another Xbox were in the works then Spencer wouldn't be saying anything at all. But.....we will see.

They ask him a direct question, not answering or not saying anything was not an option. P. Spencer's answer is the most coherent from a business point of view. Speak in present. If there was no plan to release a Pro console he would have just stated it outright.

We'll see, I'm clear that the answer to that question will be resolved by the time a PS5Pro can be announced. Just like it happened with XBO X that finally launched a year later.

 

[Zathalus]

One of them admitted on this forum to peddling MSFT sponsored content as real analysis.

What video was that, the Gears one? If so what exactly is the problem? I see nothing wrong with a company asking them to analyse a game. Crytek did the same with Crysis Remastered as well iirc.

Obviously it should not be done for comparison videos or impact the coverage of other console or hardware manufacturers. Which I don't think it has, DF has never failed to point out when the PS5 performs better, or to point out other tiny differences which would otherwise go unnoticed. Nor do they unfairly judge Sony exclusives, in fact those videos are often singing praises. The Spider-Man 2 video was very positive (more positive then this forum in fact).

Alex is obviously a PCMR type, but he basically sticks to PC videos and comparisons where he does a decent job. John has a disliking for Xbox but it doesn't appear to impact his work at all.

 

[Yoboman]

PS5 eats monsters for breakfast… oh wait… . Hilariously bad from MS this.

They really talked some shitat the start of the gen

 

[Heisenberg007]

This reveals a few important things:

• Series S was considered the "next-gen jump" by Microsoft (lol!)
• Digital Foundry had this information and never once spoke about it. Those only mentioned it when it became a possibility that Xbox is not going to release a Pro version but Sony will. Shows how much they care about not pissing Microsoft off and those "exclusive interviews and access", instead of reporting stuff as they find it.
• How delusional and out-of-touch Xbox is that they thought the Xbox Series X is powerful enough to be considered an adequate mid-gen refresh.
• And either how poor the XSX is or how amazing the PS5 is that is beating Xbox's mid-gen refresh console with just a "base" version.
• How f'ed Xbox will be when Sony releases a PS5 Pro and Xbox doesn't.

 

[killatopak]

They probably thought it was pointless since you can play their games on PC anyway.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Imagine if Microsoft does release Pro versions of their consoles to counter the PS5 Pro. A few years later, their first-party developers will be making cross-gen games for:

• PC
• Xbox Series S
• Xbox Series X
• Xbox Series S Pro
• Xbox Series X Pro
• Xbox Series Ss (next-gen)
• Xbox Series Xx (next-gen)

Their developers would have a lot of fun optimizing for all these platforms

 

[GymWolf]

Are we sure that the df guys are not making conclusions out of their asses?

Because this is hilarious if true, their pro machine is barely better than a vanilla ps5 (if any given the previous 3 years results on multiplats)

 

[SegaSnatcher]

It should have been a $399.99 discless Series X, not the gimped Series S we got for $299.99. The Series S has not helped at all in regards to grabbing more marketshare.

 

[K2D]

The same way the PS4 makes the PS4 pro near meaningless, the series S makes the series X near meaningless.

An Xbox one 1.5 and an Xbox one x 1.5

 

[SegaSnatcher]

With PC as an option, I don't see the need for a mid-gen refresh. That said, they will 100% still have one at some point. This comment just confirms it won't be soon.

Because the people who like consoles have no interest in a PC. There is some crossover, but most console gamers are not heavy PC gamers and never will be. Some of us want the best performance from a console within a certain time frame.

Every 3 - 4 yrs would be ideal for me.

 

[Team Andromeda]

John says more like and John talks a lot of silly stuff in this Ep like FORZA could be done on an XBox One. Yes, John those Jag Cores could really handle 10 times more detail than Forza 7 and 48 times increase in physics sim. Keep your anti-Xbox bullshit coming John.

I'm also sure Phil said at the start of the XBox Series development he wanted a 12 Teraflop GPU

 

[Zathalus]

This reveals a few important things:

• Series S was considered the "next-gen jump" by Microsoft (lol!)
• Digital Foundry had this information and never once spoke about it. Those only mentioned it when it became a possibility that Xbox is not going to release a Pro version but Sony will. Shows how much they care about not pissing Microsoft off and those "exclusive interviews and access", instead of reporting stuff as they find it.
• How delusional and out-of-touch Xbox is that they thought the Xbox Series X is powerful enough to be considered an adequate mid-gen refresh.
• And either how poor the XSX is or how amazing the PS5 is that is beating Xbox's mid-gen refresh console with just a "base" version.
• How f'ed Xbox will be when Sony releases a PS5 Pro and Xbox doesn't.

All the information Digital Foundry is talking about here was in the interview they did.

The big Xbox Series S interview: why Microsoft made an entry-level next-gen console

We knew it was in development, we even got to see it during our visit to the Microsoft campus back in March - but today…

www.eurogamer.net

Nothing new is coming forth. Series S is the One S and Series X is the One X.

 

[PropellerEar]

What video was that, the Gears one? If so what exactly is the problem? I see nothing wrong with a company asking them to analyse a game. Crytek did the same with Crysis Remastered as well iirc.

Obviously it should not be done for comparison videos or impact the coverage of other console or hardware manufacturers. Which I don't think it has, DF has never failed to point out when the PS5 performs better, or to point out other tiny differences which would otherwise go unnoticed. Nor do they unfairly judge Sony exclusives, in fact those videos are often singing praises. The Spider-Man 2 video was very positive (more positive then this forum in fact).

Alex is obviously a PCMR type, but he basically sticks to PC videos and comparisons where he does a decent job. John has a disliking for Xbox but it doesn't appear to impact his work at all.

If they are doing sponsored content and reading their whole analysis from MSFT script, they should disclose that info.

They got into a hissy fit here on GAF when a sharp-eyed gamer proved that they were actually lying in that analysis, John took it so far that he was posting suicide messages here, then finally he admitted it being BS analysis and that he was singing MSFT gospel.

They act like some authority on graphical analysis of games while they lack the integrity to be one.

 

[Three]

This reveals a few important things:

• Series S was considered the "next-gen jump" by Microsoft (lol!)

People that knew what was happening when these consoles were revealed were aware of this already:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/lets-be-clear-xbox-series-s-is-microsofts-real-next-gen-xbox.1564935/

They revealed the X before the S and hid the S from existence for a little while because they knew revealing the S as their main next gen machine would get raised eyebrows. Then once the announcement was out of the way everything was all hands on deck for Series S which was getting all the xbox marketing, special editions, stock and consumer attention. They are trying to pull a Nintendo with the Series S but not make it obvious to the enthusiast crowd.

 

[fermcr]

If Microsoft are smart, they will likely release their next gen console before Sony releases the PS6. They know they can't directly compete with Sony, so they could follow the Xbox 360 example (released a year prior to PS3).
Taking a look at past gens, Microsoft released the Xbox One and Xbox Series at the same time as Sony's released their consoles, and it didn't go well for them.

If Sony releases a PS5 Pro in 2024, they will be forced to wait at least another 3 years before releasing the PS6... so the PS6 will be out at the earliest in 2027.
Microsoft without a mid-gen refresh, it would be perfectly acceptable to release their next gen Xbox in 2026. They know this gen they can't compete with Sony, so a mid-gen refresh would be futile.

 

[THE DUCK]

I kinda feel sorry for Series S owners. I mean I get it, its a cheaper piece of hardware that will play the same games but when you get down to it... Does it really? You miss features, you miss the framerates, you miss the textures/RT, half the storage, can't play blu-ray movies... Just get a Series X (or PS5), its not that much more.

Don't feel bad for me, i've used it on both a smaller TV and in a room that doesn't see much use. It's fast, plays my xbox library, is quiet, and takes up very little space.

For those using it as a companion to a ps5, It's completely fine. For those using it with a smaller tv, it's completely fine. For those who sit far away from thier tv's, it's completely fine. For those who are fine with Switch graphics, it's more than fine. For those who aren't super picky about graphics (there are lots of these out there), it's completely fine. For those who play only a few games at a time, the storage is fine.

I think your getting the idea here, you cant judge a product by your primary use only.

I doubt many people care it is missing bluray movie playback, bluray disk sales have dropped over 50% in the last 3 years alone.

 

[Banjo64]

No need. I bought mine for an old 1080p plasma that I don't want to throw out and it's worked perfectly well so far. I have my PS5 on the same TV and can't really tell the difference in most games.

I also have a Series X on a 4k OLED in my living room. But I barely use it because the motion clarity is so crap on that TV. For me, the Series S has been great for what it does at being a 1080p console.

For most games you are correct, however I owned Elden Ring on Series S and PS5 and the PS5 version was so superior that I would now class the Series S version as unplayable.

 

[Gudji]

Not even a mid-gen refresh can run starfield at 60 FPS...

 

[PropellerEar]

Because this is sad if true, their pro machine is worse than a vanilla ps5 (if any given the previous 3 years results on multiplats)

FTFY

 

[Topher]

They ask him a direct question, not answering or not saying anything was not an option. P. Spencer's answer is the most coherent from a business point of view. Speak in present. If there was no plan to release a Pro console he would have just stated it outright.

We'll see, I'm clear that the answer to that question will be resolved by the time a PS5Pro can be announced. Just like it happened with XBO X that finally launched a year later.

Spencer can be evasive in answering when he needs to. I think you are right on the timing as to when we know.

 

[sinnergy]

Pros are not needed, none is working on them .. there are hardly any real next generation games

 

[Heisenberg007]

If Microsoft are smart, they will likely release their next gen console before Sony releases the PS6. They know they can't directly compete with Sony, so they could follow the Xbox 360 example (released a year prior to PS3).
Taking a look at past gens, Microsoft released the Xbox One and Xbox Series at the same time as Sony's released their consoles, and it didn't go well for them.

If Sony releases a PS5 Pro in 2024, they will be forced to wait at least another 3 years before releasing the PS6... so the PS6 will be out at the earliest in 2027.
Microsoft without a mid-gen refresh, it would be perfectly acceptable to release their next gen Xbox in 2026. They know this gen they can't compete with Sony, so a mid-gen refresh would be futile.

But that's not a very solid long-term strategy. It has two big problems:

1. Because Xbox has the lowest software sales, third-party developers will prioritize PS development, which means even a next-gen Xbox version will not have a truly shackle-free experience when compared with a PS5 / PS5 Pro.

2. If they launch 1 year before the PS6, the next Xbox will always lag behind PS6 in terms of power, tech, and capabilities, throughout the gen. PS6 will carry he power narrative.

 

[PropellerEar]

We'll see, I'm clear that the answer to that question will be resolved by the time a PS5Pro can be announced. Just like it happened with XBO X that finally launched a year later.

Cerny is waiting for MSFT to flinch first this time..

 

[FireFly]

Can't let any DF quotes go to waste when they can be used for endless fanboy warring.

 

[GymWolf]

John says more like and John talks a lot of silly stuff in this Ep like FORZA could be done on an XBox One. Yes, John those Jag Cores could really handle 10 times more detail than Forza 7 and 48 times increase in Pyshics sim. Keep your anti-Xbox bullshit coming John.

I'm also sure Phil said at the start of the XBox Series development he wanted a 12 Teraflop GPU

Is the game called forza76 by any chance?

 

[GHG]

Can't let any DF quotes go to waste when they can be used for endless fanboy warring.

Meanwhile this is you:

The Switch has a much slower CPU and in handheld mode the GPU is about 9 times slower than a PS4's. You can't scale that kind of power difference just by dropping down to 720p. On the other hand DF has shown a 4TF GPU can run games at much faster performance at 1080p, than a 9.2TF GPU at 4K. (The comparison was done before the PS5 Spec reveal)

So don't you now come in here complaining when things they say get discussed.

 

[mrmeh]

How is this news...

They implied this in the initial Xbox series coverage ages ago when they went and visited Microsoft.
Look at the naming.

None of this is new.

 

[RoboFu]

Hey MS… A $99 series S would sell more than a $500 pro console. Just saying.