Explosive Zombie
Banned
LOLOLOLOLOL
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Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
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prag16
Banned
Honestly, it would be good to know... media is still breathlessly reporting the climb in hospitalizations as we move towards winter. But the problem is, hospitalizations ALWAYS climb as we head into this time of year. What we need is year over year comparisons. Because as stated here, flu seems to have been eradicated. We already know there are reports of far fewer flu hospitalizations in many places, but what we need is the cumulative year over year comparison to get anything truly meaningful out of it.
mcz117chief
Member
The most absurd rule in the history of EVER is the "no singing" one. Whoever came up with it is just a retarded moustache twirling villain. I haven't sung as much in my entire life as I did during the past months, the thought of doing something so basic and yet unlawful like that just makes it way more appealing. Singing makes you a rebel 
diffusionx
Gold Member
No, the issue is that covid is literally the flu.
People go to the doctor because they are sick with a cough and a fever and joint pain, they get marked down as COVID (or "suspected COVID", which for all intents and purposes is the same thing). They get told to go home, avoid people, and get rest (which is of course the standard advice for influenza and has been as long as there has been influenza). But you end up with one more case to fear monger with.
The true fact is that hospitalizations were never really bad. This whole "we must lockdown forever to avoid a collapse in the medical system" was predicated on Neil Ferguson's shitty models, there was never any truth to it, our systems functioned fine in places with unchecked COVID spread. Even if they were strained, there is no evidence they were strained any worse than they are during a bad flu season, and when extra capacity was built up, it was unused.
This entire thing is a hoax.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
We will know soon because Florida has removed all restrictions. So they’re either in for a world of hurt, or most other states are going to look like assholes.
Joe T.
Member
That Spectator article was spot on. Under "Lack of access and transparency in data":
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prag16
Banned
I"m not clear if you're disagreeing with me, it sort of sounds like it. But what I'm saying is they're fearmongering the bump in COVID as we head to winter, but nobody wants to analyze how this year's "flu plus COVID" burden looks compared to past years, year over year. Most likely because the results of such an analysis would not serve their chicken little interests.
BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
Well the third wave is upon us in the United States. And thanks to science deniers, anti-maskers, and the like, it's worse than the second wave.
The US has reached a new record high in the number of daily COVID-19 infections, surpassing the peak in mid July during the second wave. As of Oct. 24 there was a weekly average of 23.0 infections per 100,000 residents, up from 20.5 on July 19 and ticking rapidly upward. The country also set a new single-day record on Oct. 23 with 83,757 new cases.
There have been clear signs for weeks of a third wave in the U.S. as the weather grew colder and the virus migrated from metropolitan cities to rural settings.
Things aren't going to get any better so long as Trump is in office and continues to do everything in his power to make things worse, while many Republican state leaders follow his example. Man I hope the pollsters are right this year and Biden wins, and I hope the Democrats regain the Senate and gain some ground at the local level in many red states. Because I am over it. We need rational, competent people running the government again.
The US has reached a new record high in the number of daily COVID-19 infections, surpassing the peak in mid July during the second wave. As of Oct. 24 there was a weekly average of 23.0 infections per 100,000 residents, up from 20.5 on July 19 and ticking rapidly upward. The country also set a new single-day record on Oct. 23 with 83,757 new cases.
There have been clear signs for weeks of a third wave in the U.S. as the weather grew colder and the virus migrated from metropolitan cities to rural settings.
Things aren't going to get any better so long as Trump is in office and continues to do everything in his power to make things worse, while many Republican state leaders follow his example. Man I hope the pollsters are right this year and Biden wins, and I hope the Democrats regain the Senate and gain some ground at the local level in many red states. Because I am over it. We need rational, competent people running the government again.
Chittagong
Gold Member
It is a flu, but it has got unique physiology that is shared with ebola and HIV, rather than influenza or common cold.
Specifically, it binds not only to the ACE2 receptor, but also neuropilin. The binding mechanism is particularly problematic.
This results in two unfortunate things. First, it makes the virus much more infectious. Second, and more worryingly, it allows the virus to wreck havoc in places where a regular flu wouldn’t - the central nervous system.
October: Neuropilin-1 study | News and features | University of Bristol
www.bristol.ac.uk
Researchers' discovery may make development of coronavirus drugs more efficient
TALLINN - With the participation of medical researchers from the University of Tartu, two research articles were recently published in Science, ...
I do not agree with all the policies nor do I think that Covid is massively dangerous to healthy, non-old people, but it is a nasty virus unlike flu.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I don't think "COVID + FLU" is a useful measure because the flu is not counted the way we are pretending to count COVID now.
Totals for the US
Daily totals for all metrics collected from January 2020 to the present.
covidtracking.com
We are testing ~50% more than we did in July, yet case counts are in line. And total hospitalizations are the same now or even LOWER than they were in July (56k on 7/31 vs. 42k now). How do you explain this? Even the most innumerate and low IQ person would understand that these numbers you are trying to pass along are not telling the full story.
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BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
I don't think "COVID + FLU" is a useful measure because the flu is not counted the way we are pretending to count COVID now.
Totals for the US
Daily totals for all metrics collected from January 2020 to the present.
We are testing ~50% more than we did in July, yet case counts are in line. And total hospitalizations are the same now or even LOWER than they were in July (56k on 7/31 vs. 42k now). How do you explain this? Even the most innumerate and low IQ person would understand that these numbers you are trying to pass along are not telling the full story.
Yes we're testing more, as expected, as the infrastructure required has expanded (more labs stood up, more labs refitted) and testing procedures have improved. It's not encouraging in the least that three months past July we're still seeing no slowdown - that things were in-line and are in fact now rising again.
Hospitals in many states are once again being overwhelmed during this wave and having to send people elsewhere. It's all over the news. We're still dying at ridiculous rates compared to other developed nations. There's no need to explain anything. To put it bluntly: open your eyes and trust actual news and not grifters. Trust the CDC, trust the health and data scientists, look at the examples other countries set. We're not going to ever get out of this in the US so long as people keep pretending that it's not a problem and keep misinterpreting what data tells them - trusting random YouTubers rather than the overwhelming body of science and health experts.
diffusionx
Gold Member
You didn't answer my question, you just regurgitated NPC normie fearmonger talk from CNN.
of course there is something to explain, if we are testing way more and getting the same case counts, that means that this "wave" is actually less severe than July, and the fact that hospitalizations are down shows that as well.
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prag16
Banned
The point is to figure out if we're truly worse off in terms of hospitalizations etc than a normal year. But what I'm saying is that nobody cares to try to answer that question, because the answer might not serve the narrative.
prag16
Banned
This is fucking rich.
Joe T.
Member
What evidence do you have of this?
Governments around the world make that same claim and never provide any solid information to support it. I see it all the damned time here in Quebec, when they want to earn favor from the public they credit us for abiding by the health measures, but when they want to make the case for more restrictive measures they raise the testing numbers and claim the outcome is because of conspiracy theorists that aren't abiding by those measures - as the press has become accustomed to saying - "without evidence."
You're acting as nothing more than a propagandist here. Are you copy/pasting from somewhere? The "new record high" (redundancy to lend more weight to the claim?) requires you ignore the fact that testing capacity has increased significantly. More tests with these ridiculously high Ct values lead to more positive results. You're making the same mistake almost everyone is, mischaracterizing positive test results as cases.
"Clear signs" is playing with language for fearmongering purposes. This increase in hospitalizations and deaths happens every single year. Rural areas don't get to escape the common cold or flu, why would they escape this coronavirus?
And there it is, you're only interested in politics. Maybe you should adopt Macron's policies, they seem to be working out so well for him in France, or maybe look up north to see how Trudeau's telling the provinces how to manage this (newsflash: he's not).
DeepBreath87
Banned
If only Trump could be more like all those European leaders. They’ve got this under control. Once he’s out of office, we can do what those guys are doing and get this right......
Birdo
Banned
DeepBreath87
Banned
Sarcasm. I know it’s tough to spot in these days because people are truly so stupid they will say stuff like that, but I promise I am being sarcastic.What?
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Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
I've been looking into this "The Great Reset" and "Agenda 21" Scary stuff.
Joe T.
Member
If you're interested in the origin of the virus this will be a must read Twitter thread which highlights some striking red flags/shady business - mostly related to the genome and the way data was published, misattributed, quietly replaced, etc - by a "scientist-turned-detective" from MIT and Harvard. The start of it and a few portions pulled from within:
What I imagine some scientists and reporters were thinking after learning Tucker Carlson briefly brought her name up on his show tonight:
What I imagine some scientists and reporters were thinking after learning Tucker Carlson briefly brought her name up on his show tonight:
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
UK media narrative today is that immunity only lasts a few months.
If true, then a vaccine would be pointless
Which leads to the important question - do we just lock down forever? In reality of course they're focusing on antibodies and that's been known for a good while, but it's T-cells that matter.
prag16
Banned
Under that assumption I've seen some float the idea of making COVID vaccines a twice-annual fixture for everyone. Lol fuck off.UK media narrative today is that immunity only lasts a few months.
If true, then a vaccine would be pointless
cryptoadam
Banned
diffusionx
Gold Member
Imagine if instead of advocating endless lockdown, useless masks, destroying the economy, closing schools, scaring people for months, etc., the government mailed vitamin d tablets to every single home and rolled out an anti-obesity campaign. It would have cost .01% of what they did spend and what we lost economically and been far more useful, if the goal was to fight the virus of course.
It was never about the virus.
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HellforLeather
Member
This is the shit that baffles me. Sunday was the first time that I saw a doctor on national TV that said vitamin D deficiency is a big aspect of how bad peoples reactions to COVID are. These correlations have been known for at least 6 months but you never hear anyone talk about it.
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SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
The virus isn't only killing the obese, if that were the case Trump would have died from it.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
If the virus is only killing the obese, that doesn't mean that it kills all obese, it just means that it doesn't kill the non-obese. The survival rate is somewhere around 99% even for the obese, and even being elderly and obese you still have pretty good survival odds, so Trump's chances were good. It's only when extrapolated over a large old obese population that you see deaths, as statistically it's only improbable, not impossible, so some people will die.
DeepBreath87
Banned
It’s also not only killing people over 65. Or people with diabetes. But the deaths and hospitalizations are highly, highly correlated with those groups.
We can’t really stop people from getting this. We can slow it down a little bit, but that’s all. It’s out there and it’s going to do it’s thing. Anyone who tells you any different is lying to you. What we can do is lower the risk of people that do get it.
diffusionx
Gold Member
The point is to mitigate risk factors and for the non elderly obesity is a huge huge factor in case severity.
If you’re heavy, dropping 20+ pounds will do more for you than endless mask wearing ever could. Because at some point you’re going to get this damn virus.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Yep - it's a virus, it's gonna go round doing what viruses do. We should have been getting our population healthy, indeed then we could have come out with a huge positive instead of bankrupt nations, jobs lost, futures destroyed. I will however say that while the vitamin D thing is doable, the weight loss would be harder. It's very hard to get a committed fatty to change their lifestyle, and I'm sure the 'body positivity' movement would have had an absolute shitfit had anyone actually tried.
cryptoadam
Banned
If only those damn Trumpers in Italy would just do a mask mandate....
Serious question - what would you do differently or believe should be done differently than what has been done in the US? Lockdowns don't work and public health officials (WHO) are saying that. Everyone is wearing masks. Even though I personally think they are worthless and don't do anything, I am still wearing one. New York City has or had the highest death rate in the world and some of the most stringent lockdowns. California is under more restrictions and lockdowns than anywhere in the US and has been masked up since June but have more cases than any other state. Europe is getting hammered again despite all the talk that they handled things so much better than the US.
I hear lots of bitching about Trump and how he fucked up. And I won't sit here and say he did things perfectly. But he listened to Fauci and Birx. Set guidelines and followed their guidance. What should he have done differently, and what has the rest of the world done that is so much better than what Trump has?
I genuinely would like answers to these questions because I hear lots of complaining about Trump and his response but nothing about what would or could be better. If there are other ideas/approaches out there I would love to hear them instead of just a typical "Orange Man Bad" response.
Nymphae
Banned
From Vox Day
In the Southern Hemisphere, where the flu season happens during our summer months, the WHO data suggests it never took off at all. In Australia, just 14 positive flu cases were recorded in April, compared with 367 during the same month in 2019 – a 96 per cent drop. By June, usually the peak of its flu season, there were none. In fact, Australia has not reported a positive case to the WHO since July.
In Chile, just 12 cases of flu were detected between April and October. There were nearly 7,000 during the same period in 2019. And in South Africa, surveillance tests picked up just two cases at the beginning of the season, which quickly dropped to zero over the following month – overall, a 99 per cent drop compared with the previous year.
In the UK, our flu season is only just beginning. But since Covid-19 began spreading in March, just 767 cases have been reported to the WHO compared with nearly 7,000 from March to October last year. And while lab-confirmed flu cases last year jumped by ten per cent between September and October, as a new season gets under way this year they've risen by just 0.7 per cent so far.... Other research by Public Health England has confirmed this. Globally, it is estimated that rates of flu may have plunged by 98 per cent compared with the same time last year.
'This is real,' says Dr David Strain, senior clinical lecturer at the University of Exeter Medical School. 'There's no doubt that we're seeing far fewer incidences of flu.'
So where has flu gone?
In the Southern Hemisphere, where the flu season happens during our summer months, the WHO data suggests it never took off at all. In Australia, just 14 positive flu cases were recorded in April, compared with 367 during the same month in 2019 – a 96 per cent drop. By June, usually the peak of its flu season, there were none. In fact, Australia has not reported a positive case to the WHO since July.
In Chile, just 12 cases of flu were detected between April and October. There were nearly 7,000 during the same period in 2019. And in South Africa, surveillance tests picked up just two cases at the beginning of the season, which quickly dropped to zero over the following month – overall, a 99 per cent drop compared with the previous year.
In the UK, our flu season is only just beginning. But since Covid-19 began spreading in March, just 767 cases have been reported to the WHO compared with nearly 7,000 from March to October last year. And while lab-confirmed flu cases last year jumped by ten per cent between September and October, as a new season gets under way this year they've risen by just 0.7 per cent so far.... Other research by Public Health England has confirmed this. Globally, it is estimated that rates of flu may have plunged by 98 per cent compared with the same time last year.
'This is real,' says Dr David Strain, senior clinical lecturer at the University of Exeter Medical School. 'There's no doubt that we're seeing far fewer incidences of flu.'
So where has flu gone?
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
It’s weird linking this channel here, but this is Mike Chen, the guy with the food YouTube channels. He went to South Korea just to get away for a while, and anyway he details some of the procedures they do there to control COVID. He had to stay in a facility quarantined for 14 days before he could go into the country and they bring him 3 meals a day which didn’t look all that bad actually in terms of quality. He said if he opens his door for anything other than to retrieve his meals, it sets off an alarm.
The one thing that stood out to me though was he said that everyone he sees is wearing masks, like everyone. And while I do sympathize with those who feel the mask stuff all the time can be annoying and oppressive at times, one of the things I respect about Asian culture is they are so humble and obedient. They all wear masks, no complaining, no riots, no protests.
It did cause me to rethink some things a bit knowing apparently how everyone there kinda sticks together and doesn’t complain and just goes about life compared to western nations.
The one thing that stood out to me though was he said that everyone he sees is wearing masks, like everyone. And while I do sympathize with those who feel the mask stuff all the time can be annoying and oppressive at times, one of the things I respect about Asian culture is they are so humble and obedient. They all wear masks, no complaining, no riots, no protests.
It did cause me to rethink some things a bit knowing apparently how everyone there kinda sticks together and doesn’t complain and just goes about life compared to western nations.
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From that article:
Dr Elisabetta Groppelli, virologist and lecturer in global health at St George's, University of London, explains: 'Flu and Covid-19 are caused by very distinct viruses, and this is clear to see under a microscope.
There's no chance of mistaking one for the other – the fragment of viral genetic material from the coronavirus looks like a bit of spaghetti, while the flu genetic material we test for looks like eight pieces of penne pasta.'
"Instead, scientists overwhelmingly agree the decline is far more likely to be linked to interventions – social distancing, hand-washing, lockdowns and school and shop closures.
'If coronavirus interfered with anything, it was our behaviour,' says Dr Foxman.
Both viruses spread in the same way: through infected droplets. But people with Covid are thought to be more contagious, and for longer, that those with flu. One measure of this is the much talked about reproduction, or R number – the number of people that one infected person will pass on a virus to, on average. Covid-19 has a reproduction number of about three, if no action is taken to stop it spreading. It means one person would be expected to give it to three others. Some viruses are more contagious, for instance measles, which has an R number of roughly 15. Flu, on the other hand, has an R number of just over one.
Joe T.
Member
Obedience is great in certain situations, depressing in others - it allows tyrants to rise to power. The marketplace of ideas is the best way to deal with issues such as this one and it's key to the scientific process, but that doesn't work so well without freedom of expression which we obviously don't have right now. Notice how the Danish mask study still hasn't been made public?
Nymphae
Banned
Bullshit
That's not an argument.
Nymphae
Banned
"scientists agree!" isn't much of one either for me anymore
I wasn't intending it to be; just pointing out that it is a possible hypothesis.
If the coronavirus is more contagious than the flu, then measures that fail to push the transmission rate of the virus below 1, may still be sufficient to push the transmission rate of the flu below 1, which is all you need to eliminate it. Given that R is not much above 1 now, in most countries, the difference wouldn't need to be huge.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
If that's true, it shows me how stupid it was to not completely eliminate the flu if all it would take would be a rather short lockdown and hygiene.
Instead they let millions of people die over the years.
This seems rather low hanging fruit now compared to Covid.
I agree with
Nymphae
, this seems sketchy to me.
Instead they let millions of people die over the years.
This seems rather low hanging fruit now compared to Covid.
I agree with
Nymphae
, this seems sketchy to me.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Well since so far we've seemed to kill the regular seasonal flu, I guess COVID-19 was worse?
Birgitte2004-2
Banned
Several strains of the flu cause Central Nervous System problems too, this is not unique to COVID, although the rates are harder to tell due to the way everything COVID is sensationalized. People with mild flus are still counted in percentages for Flu-related findings, but when you see numbers like "38% of hospitalized COVID patients have some form of neurological distress" they are obvious not doing that.
Joe T.
Member
I can't believe the language they used in that article, those subheaders:
I'm being forced to muzzle myself with masks that decades of studies/data and current real world results prove doesn't mitigate the spread of flu-like diseases by authoritarians with no transparency or any willingness to debate... and I'm the callous, hostile, deceitful one?
Loved this bit, too: "While worldwide protests have taken place surrounding mask wearing, their effectiveness continues to be proven in a growing number of studies."
prag16
Banned
Marginally.
Thanks for digging up a 7+ month old post. I've admitted that I was low on death toll expectations (though even that is done under some degree of protest because of how many people were killed by medical error or politician error rather than just the virus alone, and other issues with counting, reporting, etc).
But I was 100% right about the power hungry tyrants, the dishonest media, the collateral damage, and everything else from that angle.
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