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'Killzone: Shadow Fall' Class Action Lawsuit Can Proceed, Judge Rules
- Thread starter chadskin
- Start date
EightBitNate
Member
Are people really defending Guerilla? And not just defending them, but are outraged as well.
Um, yes? have you actually researched into this issue at all?
timothyonfire
Member
This is embarrassing. What are we, a bunch of fucking toddlers? This is how gamers probably look from an outside perspective.
fallen_dawn
Member
I haven't participated in this thread - but I don't see why not.
Shadow Fall was polished (at least in comparison to nearly every other AAA game) at launch, and has been supported wonderfully by Guerilla. I couldn't care less what rendering pipeline they use, I never noticed while I was playing that something was off. Neither did many, many other people, until months after the fact.
I really, really dislike leeches who try and make money off of the courts. They are bottom-feeders, and an embarrassment to society. I could understand if this was against any other company who marketed their product falsely, but Guerilla arguably did not, and I don't believe they intentionally tried to deceive the consumer.
Yes - action should be taken against publishers who try and deceive the public. No - I don't think this case is the right one for that. And I hope this person loses (but in reality it may just be settled out of court, unfortunately).
Given the stink people make over every game being 1080p, it isn't surprising this is happening.
Also I learned reading the thread that people have little understanding of what it means for a case to be allowed to go to trial. It is an exceedingly low barrier. This ruling does not mean they will win, they still have to convince a jury. It just means that if the facts as alleged by the plaintiff are true, then there is a redressable injury. There seems to be a damage because a true 1080p game is not the same as one that isn't, and if people did choose the product for that advertised feature, there is some diminution in value.
There is a basis for the complaint, and people should be happy anyone is sticking up for consumer rights in the games industry. Just because the target is the current darling shouldn't give them immunity. Publishers and developers should not advertise features that are not in the product.
Many also forget that class action platiniffs tend not to make much money. The lawyers will roll in the dough as they take a % of the award to the whole class, but each individual (including the named one) maybe only get a few dollars. People only go through the expense and pain of a class action lawsuit if they genuinely feel wronged, so I would say the plaintiff here isn't doing this for money, as some posters here think.
Also I learned reading the thread that people have little understanding of what it means for a case to be allowed to go to trial. It is an exceedingly low barrier. This ruling does not mean they will win, they still have to convince a jury. It just means that if the facts as alleged by the plaintiff are true, then there is a redressable injury. There seems to be a damage because a true 1080p game is not the same as one that isn't, and if people did choose the product for that advertised feature, there is some diminution in value.
There is a basis for the complaint, and people should be happy anyone is sticking up for consumer rights in the games industry. Just because the target is the current darling shouldn't give them immunity. Publishers and developers should not advertise features that are not in the product.
Many also forget that class action platiniffs tend not to make much money. The lawyers will roll in the dough as they take a % of the award to the whole class, but each individual (including the named one) maybe only get a few dollars. People only go through the expense and pain of a class action lawsuit if they genuinely feel wronged, so I would say the plaintiff here isn't doing this for money, as some posters here think.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I'm implying that a justice system that lends credence to frivolous matters such as these, is corrupt and should be disbanded.
WonkyPanda
Member
And discovery isn't the mechanism for weeding out the basis and strength for a case? How would you even know that without the production of evidence? Enlighten me, please.
thelastword
Banned
Apparently you have an issue with HRAA. I think it's advantages far outmatches any issue you will highlight in screens.
In any case, this thread is not about AA methods, so I guess we shouldn't go down that road. I do hope that you're not suggesting that an aa method can be less than 1080p.
I also do not agree with those who suggest that other internal buffers within a frame/scene compromises a game's native image. These internal renders have nothing to do with the final native image which comprises primarily of the character, npc's, geometry etc....If I'm playing dark souls at 1080p and the fire effect is rendered at 480*480 internally, it does not make the image less than 1080p. The same can be said if I played halflife 1 on my monitor with it's putrid textures and effects from the stone age.
Of course in this day and age, the resolution/size of textures, the resolution of particles and effects have all been upshot quite significantly too.
EightBitNate
Member
I agree with you but most posts in this thread sound like they're calling the argument stupid instead of the plaintiff.
mercenar1e
Member
i bet everyone on here will claim an award if the CAL is successful lol
This is insane, Ubisoft should get sued for the broken mess they release, and what about WB and SOM last gen versions and especially the PS3 version? it feels like a scam if I've ever seen one.
There are so many companies that deserved to be sued before Sony's very polished Killzone it's not even funny.
There are so many companies that deserved to be sued before Sony's very polished Killzone it's not even funny.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Accurate indication of real native resolutions would be a good thing to mandate in console games.
I found the faked 1080p in shadowfall multiplayer to be incredibly disorienting and almost nauseating to look at.
I found the faked 1080p in shadowfall multiplayer to be incredibly disorienting and almost nauseating to look at.
ScottSullivan
Member
All buyers of Killzone shadow fall get a check for $2.17, lawyers get hundreds of thousands each
EightBitNate
Member
Yes but if the case is successful then publishers might think twice about lying about such things. If you really wished to see change, you would support this.
travisbickle
Member
Are you the plaintiff?
do you know what a class action lawsuit means?
I really dont understand this thread. They advertised the game at 1080p and its not 1080p. Its as simple as that. it doesnt matter how good the graphics are.
7DollarHagane
Banned
I am a big fan of killzone, sony, and ps4 who was very put off by the way multiplayer displayed 1080p.
Maybe its because I play using a computer monitor much closer to the screen?
EightBitNate
Member
I'm not sure if it's a side effect of the resolution, but the only thing I really noticed were the spotting on shadows and the strange way new frames would appear. Probably caused by being interlaced.
I personally didnt mind it but I could see why some might've thought it was nauseating.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
I posted a screenshot where there's clear movement (flags blowing in the wind) even if it's not clear if the player's moving. All I can see in yours is the trees might be swaying a bit.
Why is that image interlaced?
EightBitNate
Member
Because it uses temporal projection, which is similar to 1080i.
VisceralBowl
Member
it is
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
But the game in no way looks like that in real time.
Might be time to leave the industry if this shit goes down that way. The repercussions of this case going forward could destroy the industry.
travisbickle
Member
Is that image not captured from the PS4?
EightBitNate
Member
Oh I know but it demonstrates how it effects its resolution. Different lines shown at different times.
Could you imagine that any material that was shown that had to be cut had to be put back into the game for fear of lawsuits, NO MATTER THE REASON IT WAS CUT?
Oh hey, you used this music track in your trailer, so it must be in the game, or otherwise you're misrepresenting the content in your game.
That one environment we created to show a proof of concept in house that got leaked? oh yeah now we have to polish that and put it in the game, and make sure there are no bugs involved too.
That leads to marketing teams that can't talk about the game at all, and then can't sell the game because no one knew anything about it for fear of lawsuits about non-final content.
Does this mean there's going to be a Destiny lawsuit too? Because that one press conference they showed in the beginning they said you could fly out there and check out the whole mountainside?
Litigiousness is not something to be taken lightly.
EightBitNate
Member
It's a slippery slope my friend. Once there is blood in the water, there will be nothing but lawsuits about everything.
EightBitNate
Member
SneakyStephan
Banned
People defend corporations like they're their mothers.
False advertising? Poor guerilla games it's not fair on them.
Naughty_Doge
Member
I know this guy just wants easy cash, but hopefully this will make developers/publishers think twice before false advertising? I doubt it.
Lol what?
Lol what?
JordanN
Banned
The basis for this lawsuit is entirely general, and appears to be built around the basis of economic loss on from a sale of goods.*
Code:
regarding allegedly fraudulent or misleading representations Sony made about its video game Killzone: Shadow Fall (Killzone).
Code:
Plaintiff’s negligent misrepresentation claim, as currently pleaded, is barred by the economic loss rule. Thus, Sony’s motion is denied in significant part.As for an End User License Agreement:
Code:
3. Express Warranty Not Disclaimed
Sony next argues that any express warranty it may have made regarding Killzone’s
graphical performance was adequately disclaimed in Sony’s Terms of Service and/or
the Killzone Software License. The Court cannot consider this argument at this juncture,
however, because these documents are not judicially noticeable, and Ladore does not
mention them in his pleading or otherwise incorporate them into his complaint.
...
Because the accuracy of the relevant documents is in dispute, the Court will not
consider whether Sony may have effectively disclaimed any express warranties in its
Terms of Service or Software License.*Economic loss from a sale of goods, because he bought a physical copy of the game, it could impact digital vs physical sales of games; they reference: North American Chemical, 59 Cal. App. 4th at 774 for precedent of economic loss from a sale of goods.
Code:
As the Court of Appeal explained, a “contract to perform
services gives rise to a duty of care which requires that such services be performed in a competent
and reasonable manner. A negligent failure to do so may be both a breach of contract and a tort. In
such a hybrid circumstance, the plaintiff is entitled to pursue both legal theories until an occasion for
an election of remedies arises. ” Id. at 774. But this is not the case where the underlying transaction
involves the sale of goods.(Also my earlier statements came in a bit hot. I'm in the industry, and this stuff pisses me off.)
EightBitNate
Member
1. The article was posted in March of 2014. The game came out 5 months earlier.
2. The problem was never single-player. It was MP that wasn't 1080p but advertised as it.
JordanN
Banned
They also said MP. Do you think they're lying?
"KILLZONE SHADOW FALL’s single and multiplayer modes both run at 1080p."
Very few clients are actually behind the idea of filing their case as a class action. So it's not a matter of the client turning money down, it's a matter of how far the law firm believes they can take this. If they think they can get a class certified then there is no way they'll let this settle at this stage.
I'm not a California attorney, so someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem as if any of the statutes which Sony et al. is alleged to have violated have statutory penalties when brought by private citizens, though one does provide for attorney fees. All of the common law causes of action seek remedies in the amount of what the plaintiff paid for Killzone. So, essentially (and assuming he gets punitive damages), the max he can reasonably expect to receive from Sony would be ~$500. I'm sure Sony would toss him more than that to make this go away.
If the law firm thought this was the most they could get out of the case, there's no way they'd have filed this. Most likely, they'll push to get a class certified then mediate this to a settlement.
Lys Skygge
Member
This country....-_-
EightBitNate
Member
The following paragraph in the article posted explains that its 1080tr. But even then, youre ignoring the fact that it was posted in March.
JordanN
Banned
I'm not sure why that matters. Did the game receive a significant change since release (where the tech breakdown would just become meaningless)? If not, it's not relevant.