• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Opinion Game Dev 'Kids should not be spending in FIFA full stop,' says EA

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Dec 1, 2014
30,378
36,948
1,345
ibiza

EA's Chris Bruzzo, who has the job title of chief experience officer, spoke to Eurogamer about some of the issues around FUT, and in the process dropped some figures that give you an idea of the scale here. Obviously Bruzzo emphasises that 9/10 FUT packs are opened by FUT Coins (earnable in-game currency), and 78% of the overall playerbase don't spend any money on the game beyond the initial purchase. He adds "30 million people played [FUT] last year, and 100 million in some form or another—mobile games and all over the world."

EA has also made changes to FUT packs in response to the increasing regulatory concern around loot boxes more generally: FIFA 22 includes probabilities for card packs, as well as FIFA Playtime which will allow individuals (and parents) to set their own restrictions.

That does lead, however, to perhaps the most serious issue around FUT. It is incredibly popular among a young audience. Bruzzo can say things like EA "actually want to treat [players] like full human beings who can make good decisions in their lives" but the whole 'choice' argument falls apart when we get to the question of kids. The EA line is, of course...

"Kids should not be spending in our game. Children should not be spending in FIFA," says Bruzzo. "[...] when we look at account signups we see a very low percentage of accounts of people under the age of 18. But more importantly, our default is set to no spending for accounts under 18. And we work with Sony and we work with Microsoft to also institute spending controls as a default for children. Kids should not be spending in FIFA full stop."

This itself exposes one of the absurdities of our current regulatory system, which is that FIFA 22 can, for example, get a 3+ rating in the UK—ie, it is an entertainment product suitable for all ages. Yet with that rating it is allowed to contain systems that, by the developer's own admission, should not be used by children. EA has even advertised FUT in childrens' magazines. "It was an oversight," says Bruzzo, "they included FIFA Ultimate Team in this toy catalogue. And we have apologised. We said it was a mistake. We do make mistakes."
 

10101

Member
Sep 16, 2012
1,025
195
735
UK
If that’s the case then they should be rating this as 18+/M. I know that purchases can (and should) be locked down at the account level for kids, however this should be highlighted better to parents which is best done through the age rating system.

I don’t give a shit about MTX myself (easily ignorable imo), but the whole adverts in kids mags thing shows they don’t really give a fuck and this is just lip service.
 
Oct 26, 2018
22,516
31,659
885
So 22% of the player base buys mtx. Bigger than I thought.

You'd think the way mtx is talked about on game forums only 1% of gamers (rich whales) do the mtx thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dbilyliker

Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
13,449
9,331
1,365
If that’s the case then they should be rating this as 18+/M. I know that purchases can (and should) be locked down at the account level for kids, however this should be highlighted better to parents which is best done through the age rating system.

I don’t give a shit about MTX myself (easily ignorable imo), but the whole adverts in kids mags thing shows they don’t really give a fuck and this is just lip service.

Ratings are worthless, they aren't actually enforceable because a lot of adults/parents will allow kids access regardless. You know this is true, whether you agree with it or not. Its an advisory at best.

Bottom line, it all boils down to personal responsibility in the end.

Here's the thing; videogames have zero innate barrier to entry. Whether you're 7 or 70 you can play and enjoy. So essentially once we start down the "but, think of the children" line, ultimately what it leads to is questioning whether a certain sort of content can be justified for any age group.

Gambling is very bad for some people, for others its harmless fun. I don't like it myself, but it is what it is. Personally though, I think these horror stories about kids racking up huge credit card bills say more about them having shitty, stupid parents/guardians than anything else. And that's not a videogame culture problem, that's a straight societal problem.
 
Oct 26, 2018
22,516
31,659
885
If that’s the case then they should be rating this as 18+/M. I know that purchases can (and should) be locked down at the account level for kids, however this should be highlighted better to parents which is best done through the age rating system.

I don’t give a shit about MTX myself (easily ignorable imo), but the whole adverts in kids mags thing shows they don’t really give a fuck and this is just lip service.
Kids cant have credit cards.

So if they are milking their parent's credit card on their system profile, its the parents job to handle it. You cant blame Sony or MS because a 12 year old is using their dad's credit card he doesn't care to lock up or take off their profile.

I don't like my credit card on file either. I use Xbox dollars I load into my account a bit at a time I buy from Costco since it's 10% off.

If parents have a big cable TV sub plan with porn channels, is it the cable company's responsibility to investigate if kids are watching? Not to me. The parents should control access. And if they cant figure it out, get rid of the access by getting rid of the porn channels.
 
Dec 29, 2018
5,231
15,526
765
Heard stories of kids emptying their parents wallets to purchase stuff on Fifa.
One dude had his kids dump 550 pounds into Fifa from his wallet.
Another kid spent north of $3 000 of his parents money on the game.

This is just one of the reasons why I absolutely loath Fifa and the developer. These fuckers are just using the name to drain people of their money and push out yearly updates in the form of new releases.

I feel the same towards Rockstar Games with GTAV. That pathetic fucking shit they call GTAV Enhanced is money greedy cunts seeing $$$ with people spending untold sums of money on their games. Its fucking disgusting.
 
Dec 29, 2018
5,231
15,526
765
Edit : Seconds late to Beige from Beige

Stop giving kids credit cards or any purchasing power.
Parents can be downright stupid as well. Let's not just blame the kids here. Parents hold some sort of responsibility towards these kids getting out of control like gambling addicts.

If my kid tried any of that shit...

 
Oct 26, 2018
22,516
31,659
885
Heard stories of kids emptying their parents wallets to purchase stuff on Fifa.
One dude had his kids dump 550 pounds into Fifa from his wallet.
Another kid spent north of $3 000 of his parents money on the game.

This is just one of the reasons why I absolutely loath Fifa and the developer. These fuckers are just using the name to drain people of their money and push out yearly updates in the form of new releases.

I feel the same towards Rockstar Games with GTAV. That pathetic fucking shit they call GTAV Enhanced is money greedy cunts seeing $$$ with people spending untold sums of money on their games. Its fucking disgusting.
Ya.

It's one of those things every company knows is scuzzy, but the right thing to do "for the corporation" is to keep it going but, PR it's bad to make some people feel better. Do it in the right combination and it gets through society as one part money maker, one part "it's not so bad".

It's really no different than government. Everyone knows smoking is bad for you. But government cant give up that giant tax money maker because it's too good. So on one hand they bad mouth it as a shitty cancer inducing product (from their PSA PR team), but have no problem allowing sale of it as long as they get huge tax cuts (the tax revenue team).
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
50,622
110,276
1,430
Parents can be downright stupid as well. Let's not just blame the kids here. Parents hold some sort of responsibility towards these kids getting out of control like gambling addicts.

If my kid tried any of that shit...

+1 for the Double Impact gif

“Yuuu of all peeeepelll shood know, I would neeeverrr in my life wear block seeelk underwears!”
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Hawking Radiation
Feb 13, 2019
624
829
320
Noone child or not should spend all their time in any game. Look as much as I love games, there is more to life than just playing games, although I have to admit I learned this lesson late, after I met my wife and became father of 2 children.
 

MrFunSocks

Member
Jul 9, 2020
4,523
8,179
665
This itself exposes one of the absurdities of our current regulatory system, which is that FIFA 22 can, for example, get a 3+ rating in the UK—ie, it is an entertainment product suitable for all ages. Yet with that rating it is allowed to contain systems that, by the developer's own admission, should not be used by children.
Nothing absurd about that IMO. Any competent parent will have parental controls set up so their kids can't buy these without their permission. Children shouldn't have credit cards or unrestricted access to online spending.

So 22% of the player base buys mtx. Bigger than I thought.

You'd think the way mtx is talked about on game forums only 1% of gamers (rich whales) do the mtx thing.
Yeah forums like this are the incredibly vocal and angry minority. Multiplayer + GaaS + Microtransactions are what the majority of game players like, yet this place thinks that no one wants any of that and that everyone just wants to play niche japanese weeb games and cinematic single player games.
 
Last edited:

TLZ

Member
Oct 20, 2015
12,034
18,120
1,070
Sydney
So 22% of the player base buys mtx. Bigger than I thought.

You'd think the way mtx is talked about on game forums only 1% of gamers (rich whales) do the mtx thing.
Not every spender is a whale. Most probably only 1% of them are.
 

10101

Member
Sep 16, 2012
1,025
195
735
UK
Ratings are worthless, they aren't actually enforceable because a lot of adults/parents will allow kids access regardless. You know this is true, whether you agree with it or not. Its an advisory at best.
Yeah, you’re right they are pretty worthless and unenforceable out in the world. They do affect what children can do on the system though through parental controls so not completely useless if the parents give a shit what their kids play and set it up.

And I agree, at the end of the day it comes down to the parents personal responsibility to ensure this isn’t happening. If someone wants to ignore age ratings, attach their credit card to their kids account then that’s on them. My comment was more about raising awareness for those parents that do give a shit and have set their stuff up correctly.

Kids cant have credit cards.

So if they are milking their parent's credit card on their system profile, its the parents job to handle it. You cant blame Sony or MS because a 12 year old is using their dad's credit card he doesn't care to lock up or take off their profile.
Oh for sure, I wasn’t suggesting that it was Sony or MS’s fault. They provide the tools to stop this stuff already, it’s up to parents to enforce it. If they are not it’s on them. And if they are not setting limits, parental controls or actually you know parenting, it’s on them. But EA shouldn’t be aiming this shit at kids imo, it’s a bullshit business practice 🤷‍♂️
 
Last edited:

Orta

console wars 2020 - participant
Apr 26, 2018
3,039
8,185
670
Well don't release Fifa anymore then, in fact, close your shitty company down altogether you fucking shysters.
 
Last edited:
  • Triggered
Reactions: MrFunSocks

GymWolf

Member
Jun 11, 2019
20,494
30,927
670
When i was young soccer games were about making tournaments with friends not all of these card packs bullshits...
 
Last edited:
Jul 25, 2014
1,421
956
590
NSA: "Snooping upon american citizens' smart devices in the name of national security, shouldn't be done, full stop."
 

Nankatsu

Member
Mar 2, 2020
1,186
2,873
565
Kids shouldn't be spending, but hey, if they want to spend, who are we to stop them?

This is purely a PR stunt.
 

GymWolf

Member
Jun 11, 2019
20,494
30,927
670
Eeeeh... non facevi l'album delle figurine?

Che ce l'hai doppio Facchetti?
Parlavo di videogiochi.

E per le figurine c'era la componente umana, i giochi fisici per vincere altre cartine, sta roba online non è lo stesso...
 
Dec 29, 2018
5,231
15,526
765
Great. Add a big'ol gambling warning on the front of the box, move the box behind the counter, ask for ID at purchase, and ask for sign off online every time for every transaction.
Add in fingerprints and a blood sample and we good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: K2D

Fuz

Member
Jun 8, 2009
9,926
12,677
1,445
Cagliari, Italy
Parlavo di videogiochi.

E per le figurine c'era la componente umana, i giochi fisici per vincere altre cartine, sta roba online non è lo stesso...
Yeah, I agree those are two very different things (cards being a phisical object, tradable, resellable and the whole point of the card packs themselves, and definitely not as predatoy as lootboxes and so on).
But football wasn't just about making tournaments (and breaking knees).
 
Last edited:
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: GymWolf

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
26,829
42,137
1,995
Kids shouldn't spend money in FIFA.

But we need them to spend money in FIFA.
 

GymWolf

Member
Jun 11, 2019
20,494
30,927
670
Yeah, I agree those are two very different things (cards being a phisical object, tradable, resellable and the whole point of the card packs themselves).
But football wasn't just about making tournaments (and breaking knees).
Again, i was talking about videogame soccer tournaments.

Usually i was the one breaking knees during real soccer since i was a big ass rough defenser with 50 size feet :lollipop_grinning_sweat:
 
Last edited:
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: Fuz

Notabueno

Member
Jun 24, 2021
274
296
250
The saddest part of it is "It is incredibly popular among a young audience".

With newer generation I thought we'd had less mindless couch potato douches playing FIFA (even though we've all played "Tsenegame" back when it was decent and not mtx crap filled), but then I guess Fortnite and mobile games which are no better didn't change that much.

Like many people in the thread, I'm blaming the douche parents.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
Dec 16, 2020
1,883
2,723
455
"Kids should not be spending in our game. Children should not be spending in FIFA," says Bruzzo. "[...] when we look at account signups we see a very low percentage of accounts of people under the age of 18. But more importantly, our default is set to no spending for accounts under 18. And we work with Sony and we work with Microsoft to also institute spending controls as a default for children. Kids should not be spending in FIFA full stop."
Great, then eliminate any payment method from accounts designated as under 18. Better yet, make it the default settings for ALL accounts. No? I thought so.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
19,526
13,889
2,110
Yet with that rating it is allowed to contain systems that, by the developer's own admission, should not be used by children. EA has even advertised FUT in childrens' magazines. "It was an oversight," says Bruzzo, "they included FIFA Ultimate Team in this toy catalogue. And we have apologised. We said it was a mistake. We do make mistakes."
disney classic GIF
 

MrS

Banned
Apr 6, 2014
10,718
11,702
850
North East, England
It's impossible to take this at face value when everything they do is geared towards getting players to play FUT. Fucking jokers. FIFA, Madden and 2K should be 18 rated because they all do this shit, period.
 
Last edited:

The Pleasure

Member
Jan 8, 2019
4,551
6,409
545
Parents can be downright stupid as well. Let's not just blame the kids here. Parents hold some sort of responsibility towards these kids getting out of control like gambling addicts.

If my kid tried any of that shit...

If they ask you for that Fifa bullshit all you have to be is like do this
 

newtypepilot

Member
Aug 19, 2015
2,888
1,320
605
lol it's just PR damage control.

Every EA and 2k sports titles are glorified casinso that's aimed at children. They are designed to exploit people with addiction tendencies.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: MrFunSocks

MrFunSocks

Member
Jul 9, 2020
4,523
8,179
665
Great, then eliminate any payment method from accounts designated as under 18. Better yet, make it the default settings for ALL accounts. No? I thought so.
It’s not EAs job to raise your kids. If you don’t want your kids spending money on micro transactions, take 2 minutes to use the parental controls so they can’t. Parenting 101. I don’t even have kids yet and my console requires authorisation for purchases.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Sep 26, 2019
4,246
5,320
485
How about EA actually puts some effort into the game and not use 2011 animations with lifeless gameplay, lifeless celebrations and lifeless commentating. Its so bad