Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
It looks like there's a lot of traffic before and then the traffic pretty much stops before impact, perhaps they managed to block access to the bridge in time?
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Key Bridge Collapse in Baltimore
- Thread starter Jorav
- Start date
It looks like there's a lot of traffic before and then the traffic pretty much stops before impact, perhaps they managed to block access to the bridge in time?
Thaedolus
Gold Member
Cargo ships are huge. People dont realize just how big these things are.
A little scale for people thinking this could be engineered around…nah
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
That was so crazy to see I hope they’re able to find everyone missing and they are found alive.
I don’t know anything about how things run, is it normal for cargo ships to pass under the bridge. or was the cargo ship completely off course and not supposed to be anywhere near it?
I don’t know anything about how things run, is it normal for cargo ships to pass under the bridge. or was the cargo ship completely off course and not supposed to be anywhere near it?
Ownage
Member
Life's not worth living unless you have a dozen to choose from.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
At first I thought no way they’d have been able to in time, but it sounds like they did just that:
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Exactly what I thought. Whole thing just completely folded.
First part would require probably a solid island of concrete TENS of meters thick and even then a full sized container ship at speed might just flow right over it and hit the bridge anyway. The latter would cripple world trade as we know it as the reason you can get a PS5 for $500 and not $2000 is partly because this kind of shipping is so extraordinarily cheap.
The bridge was built ~50 years ago for a cost of 66 million. I suspect replacing it now (if they even try) is gonna cost 100x that amount.
I'm curious just how many ships that size rely on continuous electric power and if manual redundancies were inadequate in this case or not present all together because there isn't enough crew for them anyway.
near
Gold Member
The total load on that bridge should in principle be evenly distributed amongst its piers, if one fails then load must be carried by the remaining piers. But just by looking at the way this bridge is designed the middle two piers seem to be carrying the most load, so when one of them went, the reaction forces were too great for the remaining piers to carry. I don't think there is a pier in the world that would sustain impact damage like that without critical elements failing.
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WitchHunter
Banned
Fucking ugly bridge went south. Now they will build a much better looking one.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
Uh, people are dead dude.
WitchHunter
Banned
I was talking about the bridge. I'm not the virtue signaling type.
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badblue
Member
Cargo ships can easily carry over 500,000 tons.
No one is going to build a bridge to take a hit from that much mass. Building the bridge somewhere else would be more practical.
TheDreadLord
Gold Member
A bridge like that is designed to resist vertical loads and horizontal loads corresponding to the usual currents and winds. No one would design a bridge to resist a lateral hit from a cargo ship of that size.
Mr1999
Member
It stood there for almost 50 years. Pictures show the pillars being hollow concrete but It does look like it had steel reinforcing. I wonder how thick of a pilar would be needed to prevent the collapse.
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near
Gold Member
It doesn't help that it is also a truss bridge with large spans between piers either.
WitchHunter
Banned
This ship can be fitted with 117 tons of cargo.
WhiteWaterM00se
Member
You’re absolutely correct. I just wonder if there is some sort of safeguards we Could put in front of sensitive areas on bridges or other infrastructure.
badblue
Member
Still, no one is going to build a bridge to withstand that sort of impact.
WitchHunter
Banned
Depends on the bridge type. This truss bridge is a particularly vulnerable one, according to news outlets.
That's an interesting comment. Sounds weird to me but I certainly can't say isn't true. They will probably need to document every step of the clean up for investigative purposes. Start slowly because they will be trying to recover lost souls, and go about the clean up in a manner respectful to those they haven't been able to find. And on top of that its mostly underwater, and that definitely adds complexity. He might be right.
Kittehkraken
Member
A ship is not going to speed right through a concrete pier. You can clearly see the concrete pier survived the accident just fine:
newtypepilot
Member
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Eiknarf
Banned
the ship weighed 100,000 tons (aka, that's 200,000,000 Pounds!!)
Zathalus
Member
Think you are missing a few zeros there. The ship alone weighs 95 thousand tons.
No structure on Earth will survive an impact from that.
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Nydius
Member
That this is the extent of the potential loss of life is pretty much the only silver lining from this entire tragedy.
I had family in Baltimore City and County and traversed this bridge often thoughout my childhood and young adulthood. From morning to night, the bridge was heavily traveled as it was one of a few ways into the city, and a major thoroughfare to get to the Dundalk Marine Terminal, marinas around Essex, and the Port of Baltimore. It's also the most direct route for tourists to get to Fort McHenry. If this had happened later in the day, the death toll would have been catastrophic.
Hawking Radiation
Member
Cargo ship loaded with how many millions of tons of cargo. All that weight is going to rip through anything with ease even going at a glacial pace.
HoodWinked
Member
the trajectory of the ship is quite unfortunate, looks almost like they intentionally steered into the support, but I'm thinking they dropped anchor and it swung the ship that way.
Eiknarf
Banned
It’s not a big deal. Twas just a goof.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
A case of the tuesdays.
Eiknarf
Banned
Yeah, more or less.
badblue
Member
Any bridge with supports going into the water are going to be vulnerable to this to various extents.
I'm not great at the math. Ship was moving at an estimated 8 knots when it hit the bridge and weighted approximately 117,000 tons.
Punching all that into an online calculator gives me 468,000,000 Newtons of force. I don't think any bridge is engineered to take a structural hit like that.
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Wildebeest
Member
Shipping is getting more dangerous with cargo like electric cars, which are hard to deal with if they catch fire.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
A bridge gets destroyed, people die, cars go into the water and this guy's biggest consequences highlighted are harbour shipments and Amazon deliveries being delayed.
Eiknarf
Banned
People need their paper towels
David Ricardo
Member
My feeling is the harbour pilots fucked up. The government is going to pay for the bridge to avoid an independent investigation, so they probably are guilty in some way. I would bet they chose the pilots because they met the diversity criteria instead of by merit. And that's why we don't know who the harbour pilots are.the trajectory of the ship is quite unfortunate, looks almost like they intentionally steered into the support, but I'm thinking they dropped anchor and it swung the ship that way.
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Not everything has to be about culture war my man, the ship is shown to be cutting power multiple times and an SOS was sent out.
HoodWinked
Member
Ya curious about the pilot if it was a Harbor specific pilot. But there are also these underwater channels and the inflow connected to the CSX coal pier that could have caused the ship to list. We'll see what more will come out after the investigation.
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I'm just wondering if it's going to be like the Exxon Valdez where they found a scapegoat that everyone blames to this day and you couldn't find out what really happened for years.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Sad.
newtypepilot
Member
The ship lost power twice. No power = no rudder, so basically the ship was drifting towards the pylon.
It's too early to speculate and assign blame. That being said, it's surprising that there are no barriers in place surrounding the pylons of the bridge. They would've at least helped absorb some of the impact.