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[GooseMan69]

No, I’m not talking about dev team size, before somebody comes in here telling me about how 6 squillion people worked on the latest Ubisoft game.

I’m talking about genuine, high level talent. True creative visionaries with extreme passion and drive. Have these people been poached by other tech jobs or what? Because I’m trying to find an explanation for what is turning out to be the most disappointing console generation I have ever seen. Today’s showcase solidified that for me.

Everything is a reboot or remake, or a sequel. That’s if it’s not a shitty GAAS. Everything is seemingly stuck in development hell.

I hate to be that guy, but I also have to wonder if the extreme emphasis on diversity while hiring is having an effect? Is the industry pushing away talented people in the name of checking boxes? Just a question, not necessarily a conclusion.

 

[analog_future]

No, I’m not talking about dev team size, before somebody comes in here telling me about how 6 squillion people worked on the latest Ubisoft game.

I’m talking about genuine, high level talent. True creative visionaries with extreme passion and drive. Have these people been poached by other tech jobs or what? Because I’m trying to find an explanation for what is turning out to be the most disappointing console generation I have ever seen. Today’s showcase solidified that for me.

Everything is a reboot or remake, or a sequel. That’s if it’s not a shitty GAAS. Everything is seemingly stuck in development hell.

I hate to be that guy, but I also have to wonder if the extreme emphasis on diversity while hiring is having an effect? Is the industry pushing away talented people in the name of checking boxes? Just a question, not necessarily a conclusion.

One of the best games of all time came out like 10 days ago

 

[Beastclaw Raider]

People are buying remakes. We're all older and suckers for nostalgia, we're cows getting milked

 

[feynoob]

Its about the vision, not the talent. you can take less talent people, but with a high vision, and you can get a great game.

The management for alot of studios dont have a good vision for their projects.

 

[SEGA_2012]

It seems games are too expensive and take too much time to make now, so it is too risky to create new ips and try something different. So companies are just following trends and trying to make the new Fortnite or whatever GAAS that would allow them to just keep updating the game with skins and content and making tons of money from it.

 

[nush]

before somebody comes in here telling me about how 6 squillion people worked on the latest Ubisoft game.

That's actually why, it's very hard for a creative genius to stand out because of the investment required to make big games. However they are probably out there right now working on indie games that are not getting attention due to the number of indie games out there.

 

[Rush2112]

why do you need creativity when you can make 2 million dollars a day from a mobile game?

 

[K2D]

Risk averse publishers, and:

Rising demands for graphics/
costlier development/
in-house engines being less and less viable

Result: downward spiral

 

[Maddux4164]

DEI has destroyed vision

Woke culture killed ambition in game development

 

[Samrf89]

i mean, elden ring came out a year and a half ago, and TOTK last week. there's 2 all-time greats right there.

 

[MALpractice311]

why do you need creativity when you can make 2 million dollars a day from a mobile game?

This is the sad truth. The reason creativity seems to be dead in the AAA arena is not the developers or the publishers. Its the consumers who buy this shit. The developers and publishers are just responding to the demand that gamers have clearly displayed.

 

[Kacho]

The talent that made the great games growing up are moving on or about to retire.

We have diversity now and that’s all that matters.

 

[Shits_McGiggles]

That's actually why, it's very hard for a creative genius to stand out because of the investment required to make big games. However they are probably out there right now working on indie games that are not getting attention due to the number of indie games out there.

Ok, but how much of that lack of attention is the fault of the indie game developer for insufficient "marketing" of their game?

 

[Mr Hyde]

I think the talent is still there, you see glimpses of it from time to time, but since AAA gaming is so expensive the corporate suits are putting their teams on trend chasing and sequel marathons. And this fucking GaaS trend is killing gaming right now. Indies and AA seems much healthier and more creative at the moment. AAA is a dumpster fire, save from a few gems here and there that is saving the day.

 

[Shits_McGiggles]

i mean, elden ring came out a year and a half ago, and TOTK last week. there's 2 all-time greats right there.

Perhaps the question of "talent" should be focused more on the Western Front, because Japan seems to be doing "Ok."

 

[Northeastmonk]

The new stuff looks ok. I’m excited for the latest entries of already existing/classic franchises. The stuff that goes for the “feels” or something emotional goes over my head. Then there’s the whole “here’s a sequel to the game you own on Steam” or “here’s more of that wondering game with flashy colors”. The “rob from the rich” sandbox game looks meh. There’s a lot of talent in the video game industry. I don’t necessarily get excited for everything they make. I am sold on MGS3 Remake. I am excited for games coming out next month and some of the games already came out. There’s a lot of games that deserve attention, but I’m also a paying customer. I buy what I’m interested in.

There’s a lot of saturation in the industry. For every 10 RPG’s or Action Games there’s maybe 2-3 I will actually pay money for. I don’t want my sandbox now, I want to wait for GTA6. I want what I want without buying everything that comes out. I am not required to buy a game that I don’t want to play, to help less popular games sell either.

 

[Shits_McGiggles]

Indies and AA seems much healthier and more creative at the moment.

 

[Bakkus]

Risk averse publishers, and:

Rising demands for graphics/
costlier development/
in-house engines being less and less viable

Result: downward spiral

Yup this. Also, so many lower budget game developers from previous gens have gone extinct.

 

[bender]

The push for higher and higher fidelity, more realism, and presentation above all else has consequences. You need larger teams to bring forward these assets. That means games are more expensive and take longer to make. That makes publishers less risk adverse so they stick to safer game play types and tropes. And with teams being so big, it's harder for a singular vision to shine through teams of hundreds, if not thousands, of people (Kojima being one of the few exceptions here). For a lot of games these days, mechanics aren't the focus, at least not in depth mechanics as you need to be able to cast the widest net possible. Just look at the swinging mechanics in Spider-Man 2 on PS2 versus Insomniac's offering. Insomniac's game isn't bad, far from it. You could argue it is the better overall experience but having completed both, I have no urge to go back to Insomniac's offering and still find a lot of joy in swinging in that old ass game.

 

[Danjin44]

Lol, you guys either complain about why graphics is not high tech enough and then complain about its taking too long to release a game and now this BS.

We got plenty of great games got released, maybe if you guys spend less time about obsessive over high tech graphics nonsense and more time actually playing games.

 

[Raonak]

Making games is and always has been a business.

And chasing trends has always been the goto. It just so happens that back in the day the trends were platformers and RPGs, then it became cod shooters, then lol clones, then it became mega openworlds, then it became battle royale, now it's coop shooter. Plus there's the mobile dumpster fire.

The games people who grew up in the PS1 era and before are few and far between because they aren't really profitable minus the big brands.

But even with all that in mind, there's still plenty of great games constantly coming out. Way too many for me to even keep up with.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

The talent is all in the indie and AA devs. AAA devs are too terrified of taking risks due to bloated expenses.

Gaming is at the point Pedowood discovered 15 years ago.

 

[Mr Hyde]

I think it is. Plucky Squire for example, looked leagues beyond anything Sony showed from their AAA Studios in terms of creativity.

 

[GigaBowser]

What the crud never hear of indies they're putsing out lots of the top stuffs

One of the best games of all time came out like 10 days ago

You means THE best game of all time

 

[Mozzarella]

Maybe, but it could also be same number but less percentage which also makes the quality lower.
Say you have 50 talented devs and 50 mediocre ones, together they made a great game.
But now you have 50 talented devs but 250 mediocre ones, the quality goes down.
Worst case you lose talent and gain mediocrity, so like 15 good ones and 185 mediocre ones, disaster results.

In the past it was probably fewer talented devs, but they were condensed in one studio so they made good shit, or original shit, but now they are scattered through multiple studios from indies to AA to big ones, so things are a bit muddy. Idk, it could be just a dry period as well, but Japanese developers are doing pretty good, some EU and NA ones are doing good too, its not everyone, but there's a lot of mediocre and outright bad stuff recently. Just like every other medium when you think about it.

 

[01011001]

One of the best games of all time came out like 10 days ago

nintendo doesn't count tho... nintendo is a gigantic outlier just like Valve. they operate differently than most companies

 

[Draxon Gamer]

No, it's just the more talented folks aren't in top positions anymore to influence other developers or designers.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Nope, they’re just indies.

 

[Crayon]

i mean, elden ring came out a year and a half ago, and TOTK last week. there's 2 all-time greats right there.

And that's actually a good cadence for games THAT good.

 

[Northeastmonk]

As if the industry is going to make Middle Earth into some amazing VR game where you’re blowing the pipe with Gandolf and sneaking up on dragons while wearing the one ring. Living in hobbit homes that look like New Zealand landscapes. I don’t think you’ll find what you’re looking for because there’s plenty of talent. Browse the thousands of games on Steam already. I can handle existing franchises fueling the future.

 

[SlimySnake]

The push for higher and higher fidelity, more realism, and presentation above all else has consequences. You need larger teams to bring forward these assets. That means games are more expensive and take longer to make. That makes publishers less risk adverse so they stick to safer game play types and tropes. And with teams being so big, it's harder for a singular vision to shine through teams of hundreds, if not thousands, of people (Kojima being one of the few exceptions here). For a lot of games these days, mechanics aren't the focus, at least not in depth mechanics as you need to be able to cast the widest net possible. Just look at the swinging mechanics in Spider-Man 2 on PS2 versus Insomniac's offering. Insomniac's game isn't bad, far from it. You could argue it is the better overall experience but having completed both, I have no urge to go back to Insomniac's offering and still find a lot of joy in swinging in that old ass game.

yeah, except for the fact that none of the games shown today came even close to the Matrix demo or the first UE5 demo. this shit is on par with RDR2, TLOU2 and other last gen games.

What's happened is that the real talent is gone. They have been replaced with people who want to work from home. dont want to stay past 5PM. dont want to be criticized at work. want to push an agenda instead of graphics fidelity. want to shitpost on twitter instead of actually work for a living.

Sony went three years in between e3 conferences and showed up with one game with gameplay and that too so last gen people think its cross gen. one game. they have 20 studios. full of lazy bums who dont want to work.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Despite the consolidation, too much talent left big studios, and games take too long to make, PLUS everyone wants to work from home and by work from home, I mean sit on their couch and do nothing.

This is why so many games are delayed or release like shit.

 

[nush]

Ok, but how much of that lack of attention is the fault of the indie game developer for insufficient "marketing" of their game?

Two different skillsets. being good at making games, VS selling that game.

 

[Moonjt9]

i mean, elden ring came out a year and a half ago, and TOTK last week. there's 2 all-time greats right there.

Japan. The west is a void of diversified mediocrity.

 

[Valt7786]

Too much trend-chasing for one thing. Too many companies seeing one type of game do well, so now we must all make one! Battle Royale being the obvious one, now it's extraction-looter-shooters because Tarkov was popular for a while.

 

[March Climber]

 

[Trogdor1123]

There is probably way way more than ever before but the process for making games is just so much more complex and risk is so heavily avoided

 

[bender]

What's happened is that the real talent is gone.

Nope. Disagree. It's consumer demand for games to be bigger and look better that's led us to the current state of gaming. And if a game looks like TLOU2 or RDR2, what exactly is wrong with that? Those games look fucking amazing.

 

[Danjin44]

Japan. The west is a void of diversified mediocrity.

And most western devs have to spend time and resources to make graphic whores happy. I’m soooooo glad most Japanese devs stopped bothering with that nonsense.

 

[Represent.]

Yes. And a lack of ambition. And its blatantly obvious.

No new ideas.
No graphical powerhouses.
No advancement in areas like destruction. AI.
All open world games boil down to the same mission structure GTA3 invented 20 years ago. OR, just take out icons on map. Thats now considered innovation.
Every game has to be 30+ hours to be deemed valuable. No one has the balls to say "our game is 6 hours. And its fucking awesome. We're doing things no one else can"

I could go on.

 

[Gambit2483]

Western Development especially with its focus on GAAS has put this industry in a serious downturn. Thank God we still have developers like Insomniac, Naughty Dog, Santa Monica and a handful of passionate indies.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Bro if a bad Sony showcase makes you think there just isn't any talent left in the industry I invite you to cross the 49th parallel. That's some Best Korea energy.

 

[SlimySnake]

Nope. Disagree. It's consumer demand for games to be bigger and look better that's led us to the current state of gaming. And if a game looks like TLOU2 or RDR2, what exactly is wrong with that? Those games look fucking amazing.

RDR2 was made to run on a 1.3 tflops GPU. if we have consoles that are literally 10x more powerful with the same quality visuals then surely there is something wrong with that.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Triple a games have gotten so massive in scope, and now need so much time to get made that they have become unsustainable

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

This is a bullshit take. There are still a lot of great games being made. If anything the issue now is that gamers just whine too damn much.

like you say the show was a disappointment, and everything is just remade, and yet ignore the like 10+ new IPs in the show.

 

[93xfan]

Risk averse publishers, and:

Rising demands for graphics/
costlier development/
in-house engines being less and less viable

Result: downward spiral

Speaking of rising development costs, I’d rather just have more great gameplay with PS4 level graphics, 60FPS and a pushed out LOD. A few visual stunners are nice every now and then, but that’s not as important as us getting fun games that take risks.

With all that said, I’m really having a time of my life with games lately.

With the new Zelda, new Street Fighter, amazing metroidvanias like Hollow Knight, a large community ready to play classic Halo online with, to a ton of BC classic games, I’m quite happy at the moment.

 

[GooseMan69]

I agree the Japanese seem to be doing better. Most of these issues are directed at western studios.

Is it a cultural thing?

 

[Kacho]

Is it a cultural thing?

Yes and it’s not exclusive to games. Look at movies and music. Heaps of trash out there right now.

 

[Guilty_AI]

i think some of you need to look for another hobby

 

[Represent.]

Nope, they’re just indies.

Indie devs are just as creatively bankrupt. Did you just watch the showcase? Half of them had identical artstyles and identical gameplay.

Nope. Disagree. It's consumer demand for games to be bigger and look better that's led us to the current state of gaming. And if a game looks like TLOU2 or RDR2, what exactly is wrong with that? Those games look fucking amazing.

Because those are last gen games made on hardware literally 10-20x weaker than what we have now. Talented, hungry ambitious developers should be dying to showcase their... talents. And make better looking games. Not just PS4 looking games at 60fps. That never happened in previous gens. Developers had more ambition and yes, talent.

What I agree with you with you on though is, yes, games don't have to be any longer. In fact, I would welcome shorter games. Apparently its a terrible idea though - I got clowned in there for even suggesting devs try their hand at shorter, more unique, higher quality experiences.