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[Deft Beck]

It's somewhat comparable to Space Channel 5, I guess? You really have to play attention, the game will prompt you with choices, and you have to hit them on beat without any real cues.

It's a NIGHTMARE on modern TV. I had to deliberately hit the buttons a split second afterward when playing mine on the PS3.

Yes, Bust a Groove 1 + 2 are unplayable on the PS3.

Well, with the franchise declining as it has, that's hard to say.

What's your evidence for this?

Y'know, I've never actually played this one, what is the gameplay like? Is it (mostly) okay on a modern TV?

It's like a dance battle game. Modern displays are fine as long as you're playing on a PS1 or PS2; the PS3 cannot play Bust a Groove 1 or 2 reliably.

I think they're healthy enough if Yako Taro still puts an element of them in the two drakengard games he made.

I don't think the appearance of a rhythm minigame in a niche RPG series is reflective of the genre's health in general.

Kickbeat is available on PS Vita but I don't know if it supports custom music like the PC version.

Nobody should play Kickbeat. It's dreadful.

 

[xevis]

I don't know what relevant means in this context but Theatrhytm, Rhythm Paradise, Donkey Konga and Samba de Amigo are perennial favorites at my house.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Yes, Bust a Groove 1 + 2 are unplayable on the PS3.

Unplayable, no. Extremely frustrating, yes.

 

[Wonko_C]

Nobody should play Kickbeat. It's dreadful.

I bought it on the last Steam sale and have only played about 7-8 songs total, but I have been having fun with it so far. I am not really knowledgeable with rhythm games but I'm curious to hear what makes Kickbeat bad.

 

[Deft Beck]

Unplayable, no. Extremely frustrating, yes.

I would argue that it renders the game almost impossible to clear normally.

I bought it on the last Steam sale and have only played about 7-8 songs total, but I have been having fun with it so far. I am not really knowledgeable with rhythm games but I'm curious to hear what makes Kickbeat bad.

Kickbeat doesn't project incoming inputs very well. It relies upon the approach of 3D models to indicate incoming inputs, which is further complicated by screen-shaking, shifting colors (upon use of the 'overdrive' powerup) and other visual distractions. All of this makes it difficult to time inputs well, which makes the mechanics fail at a fundamental level. There's also the issue of the powerup and multiplier systems relying upon doubled inputs, as well as the lower difficulties lacking notes, making for a clunky and snoreworthy experience for veteran players. And you have to play through the story multiple times to unlock multiple difficulties, which is an absolute slog.

The soundtrack is full of dated buttrock that goes on for way too long per stage, the graphics lack variety and the story isn't even amusing in a bad way.

Don't buy or play Kickbeat.

 

[omgwtfbentime]

Not to downplay how great the DDR A rollout here is, but it's not the first ever DDR released internationally (DDR USA and SuperNOVA through X2 exist, and e-Amusement was tested but not completely rolled out for SN2) nor is the song list completely identical (the international version is missing about 20 songs).

oh I had no idea... it's the first time I actually had access to a DDR mix since SuperNOVA 1 so I don't remember that. I was mostly speaking from a cabinet quality and feature perspective and assumed based on the insane number of songs and full e-amuse support. Also while I get where you came from with SuperNOVA 1 and 2 (those were both solid US arcade releases) USA was absolutely dreadful of a mix (basically 2nd mix when 3rd mix was out and 4th mix was on its way) and X and X2 feature the worst cabinets ever made... they're hardly even an option even though yes, they were released here.

 

[dangerskew]

My local Dave & Busters just had a DDR Ace tournament. 10 people showed up and it was great. The game still turns a lot of spectators. The new game and cabinets are fantastic.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I would argue that it renders the game almost impossible to clear normally.

I did! But I'm insane. I got an S on Beat of the War Crazy on a machine with no audio once.

 

[The Bankslammer]

i love bust a groove a lot but at the same time i find it hard to recommend for the price it's going for nowadays. it's very short and not particularly complex mechanically, but the music is fantastic, the animations still hold up well, and the attempt at a head to head vs music game is interesting. definitely worth a try, at least.

 

[Deft Beck]

i love bust a groove a lot but at the same time i find it hard to recommend for the price it's going for nowadays. it's very short and not particularly complex mechanically, but the music is fantastic, the animations still hold up well, and the attempt at a head to head vs music game is interesting. definitely worth a try, at least.

Bust a Groove 1 + 2 are rhythm game classics, in my opinion. They're a bit mechanically clunky at first, but become very satisfying when you master them. The music is all produced by old-school Japanese dance music producers from Avex, and the graphics are all motion-captured.

I have a writeup of the two games and the spiritual successor Dance Summit 2001 coming to Hardcore Gaming 101 soon.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

My local Dave & Busters just had a DDR Ace tournament. 10 people showed up and it was great. The game still turns a lot of spectators. The new game and cabinets are fantastic.

Wait, DDR Ace is actually playable in the States outside of Round 1?

 

[StarCreator]

Wait, DDR Ace is actually playable in the States outside of Round 1?

As mentioned previously, Dave & Buster's has the largest DDR A rollout in the U.S., and in fact they're doing a pretty good job of promoting it.

 

[cj_iwakura]

As mentioned previously, Dave & Buster's has the largest DDR A rollout in the U.S., and in fact they're doing a pretty good job of promoting it.

"(English Translator Needed)"

 

[Wonko_C]

I would argue that it renders the game almost impossible to clear normally.



Kickbeat doesn't project incoming inputs very well. It relies upon the approach of 3D models to indicate incoming inputs, which is further complicated by screen-shaking, shifting colors (upon use of the 'overdrive' powerup) and other visual distractions. All of this makes it difficult to time inputs well, which makes the mechanics fail at a fundamental level. There's also the issue of the powerup and multiplier systems relying upon doubled inputs, as well as the lower difficulties lacking notes, making for a clunky and snoreworthy experience for veteran players. And you have to play through the story multiple times to unlock multiple difficulties, which is an absolute slog.

The soundtrack is full of dated buttrock that goes on for way too long per stage, the graphics lack variety and the story isn't even amusing in a bad way.

Don't buy or play Kickbeat.

I see, readability is an issue. I'm still kinda having fun with it, though. We'll see how long that lasts.

 

[Octavianus]

I'm still waiting for Gitaroo Man 2

 

[cj_iwakura]

I'm still waiting for Gitaroo Man 2

Aren't we all.

 

[Deft Beck]

Aren't we all.

I know I am.

I mean, we kind of got Gitaroo Man 1.2, with the two bonus songs from the PSP version.

 

[Remembrance]

If a game is to break out of its niche status, it absolutely has to be accessible, making use of an existing control scheme to its fullest (see: Superbeat Xonic for Dualshock4/PSVita layouts or simply QWERTY keyboards, or... well... a single touchscreen because smart devices) to combat a low population density of a target market.

See, the DJMax people got it right for letting you do something as simple as using a controller or keyboard. And yet I can't help but feel that they are treated like bootleg games in the grand scheme of things just because they don't use unwieldy peripherals (getting sued by Konami and all).

The last time I brought up rhythm game accessibility in a thread, I remember somebody responding with "no, rhythm games that you have to find an arcade to play are already accessible enough" or something like that.

It's like there is a hardcore mentality that it has to be a pilgrimage of some kind just to play these games.

 

[catmario]

We have rhythm heaven and DJMAX and Miku series.

So It's still relevant.

 

[Falk]

See, the DJMax people got it right for letting you do something as simple as using a controller or keyboard.

I'm not sure if this was a net-positive though.

Charts past mid-high skill level were very, very clearly designed for one or the other, and missed its intended difficulty quite a bit if attempted with the opposing button layout.

(e.g. a chart designed for <shift>zsxdc<space> would have a lot of really tricky interplay between ring and middle finger on both hands on a sdf<space>jkl layout)

To be fair, this dichotomy is something that went much, much further back to the original DJMAX Online, with the Trilogy controller simply just catering to the resultant precedents years later.

Perhaps a better, and more contemporary, analogy would be how official IIDX PC is 'meant' to be played with a QWERTY keyboard, but has an optional official controler (idk how this stacks up against DAOs, no personal experience) but sticks to its guns in terms of button layout regardless.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

The second Theatrythm game on 3DS is probably a top 10 game on the system.

 

[Deft Beck]

See, the DJMax people got it right for letting you do something as simple as using a controller or keyboard. And yet I can't help but feel that they are treated like bootleg games in the grand scheme of things just because they don't use unwieldy peripherals (getting sued by Konami and all).

The last time I brought up rhythm game accessibility in a thread, I remember somebody responding with "no, rhythm games that you have to find an arcade to play are already accessible enough" or something like that.

It's like there is a hardcore mentality that it has to be a pilgrimage of some kind just to play these games.

Rhythm gamers tend to hold mechanical mastery as a rite of passage; you have to learn the crossovers, the pinky scratch, etc. before you're taken seriously. As for the accessibility of the machines, that's just a consequence of it being a niche genre in the US and elsewhere outside of Asia. Though, it's becoming easier to get fan-made BMS content that you can play with replica controllers from Dao. That introduces a price barrier, of course.

I'm not sure if this was a net-positive though.

Charts past mid-high skill level were very, very clearly designed for one or the other, and missed its intended difficulty quite a bit if attempted with the opposing button layout.

(e.g. a chart designed for <shift>zsxdc<space> would have a lot of really tricky interplay between ring and middle finger on both hands on a sdf<space>jkl layout)

To be fair, this dichotomy is something that went much, much further back to the original DJMAX Online, with the Trilogy controller simply just catering to the resultant precedents years later.

Perhaps a better, and more contemporary, analogy would be how official IIDX PC is 'meant' to be played with a QWERTY keyboard, but has an optional official controler (idk how this stacks up against DAOs, no personal experience) but sticks to its guns in terms of button layout regardless.

It gets even worse in the early Portable games when they just ported charts straight from DJMAX PC and didn't fix the awkward double notes and diagonal chords that were uncomfortable to play on the PSP. Later games didn't have this issue.

The second Theatrythm game on 3DS is probably a top 10 game on the system.

Theatrhtyhm would benefit from streamlining the whole RPG system. As it is, it's a huge distraction from the actual rhythm gameplay.

 

[nicoga3000]

What are the best choices in the US right now? I have Project Mirai on 3DS, and that's good fun. I'm contemplating getting a PS4 and making a JP account to play some of the other Miku and Idol games. I like Rhythm Heaven, but it's too easy (unless the new one has added some crazy difficult stuff).

 

[Genio88]

I loved Rhythm Heaven and Elite Beat Agent on DS, since my console died though now i'm playing those emulated on my Xiaomi Mi5 android phone, and are still awesome(also thanks to how good the Drastic emulator is) I've also been thinking about buying a 3ds or better a 2DS for cheap just to play the newer Rhythm Heaven Megamix, but rumors about NX stopped me,it'll be mainly a handheld so it'd not be that smart to buy a 3DS now to me since its successor is on its way.
Though is it still relevant overall for market? i wouldn't know, but i think they've never been a really famous genre so...

 

[Deft Beck]

What are the best choices in the US right now? I have Project Mirai on 3DS, and that's good fun. I'm contemplating getting a PS4 and making a JP account to play some of the other Miku and Idol games. I like Rhythm Heaven, but it's too easy (unless the new one has added some crazy difficult stuff).

Rhythm Heaven has always been easy until late game and post-game. That's when the Perfect challenges come.

 

[Ferr986]

I'll never forget Sega for opening a Space Channel 5 twitter teasing news that never came

needs more SC5 coolness

 

[thelatestmodel]

Yes, it is. IIDX continues to receive regular updates.

I can't see myself ever stopping playing IIDX. I'll probably play until I'm physically unable to continue.

 

[Atomski]

I think a major issue is TVs.. yeah you can still do stuff to fix the latency but I feel like it's still off even after tinkering on that shit forever.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I'll never forget Sega for opening a Space Channel 5 twitter teasing news that never came

needs more SC5 coolness

Still the greatest rhythm series of all time. We were blessed to have part 1. Part 2 was icing.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

What are the best choices in the US right now? I have Project Mirai on 3DS, and that's good fun. I'm contemplating getting a PS4 and making a JP account to play some of the other Miku and Idol games. I like Rhythm Heaven, but it's too easy (unless the new one has added some crazy difficult stuff).

The new one is way easier than previous games, unfortunately.

 

[Ferr986]

Still the greatest rhythm series of all time. We were blessed to have part 1. Part 2 was icing.

I agree. So stylish and fun, with extremely likeable characters.

I actually liked the music and all that 70-disco vibe from Part 1 more than the music/art from 2, while 2 had better/more fleshed out characters, better choreographies , and the most important, better gameplay!

 

[djtiesto]

It's ok, Miku is here to stay.

From what I've been hearing, the sales for the last 2 Miku games (PDX and Future Tone) weren't so hot, and the producer left Sega... Not looking too good but I'm sure we'll get at least one or two more before Miku gets condemned to mobile hell.

Wish we got Theatrhythm DQ in the US though

 

[Javier]

Pump It Up is quite popular here in Latin America. I just wish the machines weren't so hard to come by. The only one in my town is a Fiesta EX 2011 one, and while it's very good, it's quite dated by now. I want to play the newer songs.

Just Dance is ridiculously popular in Chile. Whole cons and tourneys dedicated to it.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I agree. So stylish and fun, with extremely likeable characters.

I actually liked the music and all that 70-disco vibe from Part 1 more than the music/art from 2, while 2 had better/more fleshed out characters, better choreographies , and the most important, better gameplay!

My only gripe with 2 is the localization. Purge's lyrics have no flow at all. Maybe it's deliberate? I'd have to see the JP version to confirm, but the songs just felt weird.

"We are known as the rhythm rogues! [Chu, Chu] / You can't fool us, not anymore!"

Doesn't even rhyme.

Pump It Up is quite popular here in Latin America. I just wish the machines weren't so hard to come by. The only one in my town is a Fiesta EX 2011 one, and while it's very good, it's quite dated by now. I want to play the newer songs.

Surprised yours isn't hacked yet. There's at least five cabinets in Broward, we have a very devout Pump scene.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I think a major issue is TVs.. yeah you can still do stuff to fix the latency but I feel like it's still off even after tinkering on that shit forever.

If you actually know the latency of your TV, you can make it perfect.

My projector, the W1070, has many reviews which have measured the latency to be exactly 22 ms. Plug that in to Project Diva, and yep, it's perfect.

I just wish more TV's would get their exact input lag published. You can theoretically imagine games coming with a big database.