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[Guilty_AI]

I just have a parallel theory about gaming being better when games were made with platforms in mind.

I can't say i understand this theory. In the old days its true some platforms had certain advantages over others, be the ps1 using disc media which allowed for pre-rendered cutscenes and complex audio-tracks, or PCs in the late 90s/early 2000s having more RAM memory allowing larger levels.

But looking the other way around, what we had were a bunch of half-feature-complete platforms that were lacking in some way or another. Now all platforms can do pretty much everything well. That is not a bad thing no matter how you try to look at it.

 

[bender]

sure, we had the most innovative FPS games and RTS games too as well as all of the mods. but the console titles were more numerous and popular, and had a greater amount of variety. You were genuinely missing out on a lot if you had a PC and didn't own a console in those days.

Nowadays though it's easy to buy a PC and Steam Deck and basically be covered for 98% of the new releases coming out (the 2% being whatever PS5 exclusives come out). Plus it's easier to make a system and if you're willing to have on par/lower performance than the consoles you can still build an OK budget build around 500-700 dollars.

Who is we? Hard disagree with your numerous and variety assessments.

I can't say i understand this theory. In the old days its true some platforms had certain advantages over others, be the ps1 using disc media which allowed for pre-rendered cutscenes and complex audio-tracks, or PCs in the late 90s/early 2000s having more RAM memory allowing larger levels.

But looking the other way around, what we had were a bunch of half-feature-complete platforms that were lacking in some way or another. Now all platforms can do pretty much everything well. That is not a bad thing no matter how you try to look at it.

Platforms are always going to have advantages and disadvantages. In my view, gaming was more interesting when developers would exploit those advantages and work around those disadvantages. Now we get games targeted for every platform and the lowest common denominator which applies to player aptitude, control methods, hardware rendering capabilities, etc.

 

[Klosshufvud]

That knife cuts both ways.

This made me realize when I was a kid, all my friends were on PC and I was on Playstation. We were experiencing completely different games. I was playing MGS, Tekken, FF, Gran Turismo while they were going insane for DOTA, WoW, Counter Strike and so on. In some ways our childhoods were so different. It's a bit shame that platform-centric gaming is gone in one way, but a blessing in other ways. Now PC covers most bases with basically only Nintendo being the biggest console-only publisher left. My nephew is playing Fortnite on his PS4 with people on PC and Xbox. It's a different world today.

 

[Sentenza]

when ocarina of time released on the N64 and not a single soul gaming on PC got to experience that beauty. Now you can play it on PC with even better visuals, support for all controllers, quality of life fixes and an actually good framerate.

Isn't that a terrible example? With the notorious UltraHLE emulator Ocarina of Time was playable on PC at release.

Not to mention that we are back to the previous point that ONE notable release (or "killer app") doesn't make a platform inherently superior. You are saying this as if some of the most iconic games of the '90s weren't released at the same time on PC (Half-Life, to name one).

 

[64bitmodels]

With things like the Steam Deck and Asus Rog Ally being a thing, it looks like PC gaming is more accessible than it has been.

those are good but also not really the full experience and moreso a complement to PC. Especially Deck as SteamOS still lacks support for many PC gaming features on the Nvidia and modding side

Who is we? Hard disagree with your numerous and variety assessments.

is my pc gaming card revoked or something?

I haven't dug much into PC games from then on personally, i might be missing a lot

Isn't that a terrible example? With the notorious UltraHLE emulator Ocarina of Time was playable on PC at release.

oh yeah.... UltraHLE was a thing.... shit.

OK then, Mario World and Super Metroid. Those gems weren't available on PC for a while.

 

[bender]

is my pc gaming card revoked or something?

I just find the rampant tribalism in gaming weird.

It's a bit shame that platform-centric gaming is gone in one way, but a blessing in other ways.

That's a beautiful way to put it.

 

[64bitmodels]

I just find the rampant tribalism in gaming weird.

fair enough, I am not a PC or a computer. you are though.


and besides that the platform centric approach you're fond of does contribute a lot to platform tribalism and console wars.

 

[64bitmodels]

Spark the eletric jester 2&3,

funny you mention spark 2 because it has an xbox version. though it's also the worst game in that series IMO

 

[bender]

fair enough, I am not a PC or a computer. you are though.


and besides that the platform centric approach you're fond of does contribute a lot to platform tribalism and console wars.

Platform centric approaches produce interesting games. Humans and their fragile egos fight the wars. And given enough time, most (or a lot of) games end up in other places than where they were originally developed for though they may be missing a touch of magic dust that made them special in the first place.

 

[64bitmodels]

I know you'd probably just try to dismiss them with phrases like "Only AAA count!" or "Never heard of any of them!"

If someone threw that at me i'd respond with this

*On NeoGAF.

Go onto places like discord, youtube, twitter, Steam, etc. You will see people dredging up crazy new indie/AA games all the time. Indie gamers are digging for gems and finding stockpiles of them as usual.

It's just that on GAF as usual there's this hyperfocus on AAA and AAA only which means that other games are sort of just not prioritized here. Minecraft is one of the most popular and beloved games of all time and even here hardly anybody talks about it. We're a very specific bubble of very specific enthusiasts who are enthusiast enough to own all 4 systems but not enthusiast enough to really dig for interesting games in our hobby. It's weird.

this hyperfocus on AAA also is partly the reason why many here are quick to dismiss PC exclusives because a lot of them tend to be indies. but trust me when I say that the lack of care for PC exclusive indies on gaf is a mostly gaf exclusive thing

 

[DaGwaphics]

Depends on what it is you are doing. Some games like Madden just run better on console (where even high-end hardware leaves you with some inconsistency). Other games have stutter or long compilation runs before you can play etc. PC is the premium option for the highest frames and max settings on graphics, the consoles however can sometimes offer smoother (not talking max framerate, but consistency in frame time etc.) more optimized options.

 

[64bitmodels]

I dont understand why we keep getting this threads about "PC is best gaming platform"? If you are enjoying PC gaming then great but do we REALLY need multiple threads about this?

It feels like those crazy religious group that are desperately trying recruit more people to their cult.

you'd be absolutely correct my good sir. join us now.

 

[Danjin44]

you'd be absolutely correct my good sir. join us now.

 

[64bitmodels]

Not to mention that we are back to the previous point that ONE notable release (or "killer app") doesn't make a platform inherently superior. You are saying this as if some of the most iconic games of the '90s weren't released at the same time on PC (Half-Life, to name one).

That's fair but this isn't like now where you wait 2 years to get a PS5 exclusive and 10 for an Xbox exclusive. Consoles back then got tons of amazing games that PC had to wait on or never recieved.

Back then you basically had to have owned at least 2 systems to get the full experience. Many people here are talking about how you can purchase a nice gaming PC and get virtually everything minus a couple of titles

 

[Guilty_AI]

In my view, gaming was more interesting when developers would exploit those advantages and work around those disadvantages. Now we get games targeted for every platform and the lowest common denominator which applies to player aptitude, control methods, hardware rendering capabilities, etc.

This kind of thinking made sense in the 2000s, where we had games like Thief 3 or Deux Ex Invisible war having to make severe compromises to release on other platforms.

Today there's virtually no compromise that must be made when you target multiple platforms, thats my point. Unless the dev is specifically making games for Switch and Mobile releases (which we all know is far from being the norm). The worst you may get is a few annoyances related to UI or control scheme.

Platform centric approaches produce interesting games. Humans and their fragile egos fight the wars. And given enough time, most (or a lot of) games end up in other places than where they were originally developed for though they may be missing a touch of magic dust that made them special in the first place.

Are you sure this "touch of magic" isn't more social related rather than software related? You had a PC and your friend had a N64, your friend went to your house to play PC games and you went to his house to play N64, each on a different weekend. Then you two fist-fight the annoying kids in the neighborhood who thought the ps1 was superior and bullied the kid with the Saturn.

Yeah, i can see the magic in that as i've lived it myself, but this isn't a problem with current platforms or games. Its just g'old nostalgia.

 

[Jesb]

Just checked gpu prices and there still 3x as much as a ps5 lol. I do think GeForcenow is the better deal than any console though.

 

[bender]

Today there's virtually no compromise that must be made when you target multiple platforms, thats my point. Unless the dev is specifically making games for Switch and Mobile releases (which we all know is far from being the norm). The worst you may get is a few annoyances related to UI or control scheme.


Are you sure this "touch of magic" isn't more social related rather than software related? You had a PC and your friend had a N64, your friend went to your house to play PC games and you went to his house to play N64, each on a different weekend. Then you two fist-fight the annoying kids in the neighborhood who thought the ps1 was superior and bullied the kid with the Saturn.

Yeah, i can see the magic in that as i've lived it myself, but this isn't a problem with current platforms or games. Its just g'old nostalgia.

Compromising control scheme is huge, it's how we interact with these games after all. And how we control games effects level design, difficulty, enemy placement, etc. t also runs tandem with targeting larger audiences and dumbing down the experiences to appeal to the masses.

Touch of magic has nothing to do with social aspects nor nostalgia: Analogue movement with Mario 64, Analogue tools in Ape Escape, Pyscho Mantis reading your memory card for other saved games from Konami or having you switch controller ports so he could no longer read your inputs. Monster Rancher letting you build creatures based on your music CDs, Audiosurf building levels based on your MP3 collection, Boktai using a solar sensor, PGR2 having a radio station that was just playlists from your hard drive, Silent Hill 2's fog system on PS2 outclassing its' ports, etc. Most recently we had the incredible feeling of rain in Astrobot using the DualSense.

 

[OverHeat]

I dont understand why we keep getting this threads about "PC is best gaming platform"? If you are enjoying PC gaming then great but do we REALLY need multiple threads about this?

It feels like those crazy religious group that are desperately trying recruit more people to their cult.

 

[twilo99]

Why is this even a question? If price isn't a factor PC has always been the better way to play video games.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Compromising control scheme is huge, it's how we interact with these games after all. And how we control games effects level design, difficulty, enemy placement, etc. t also runs tandem with targeting larger audiences and dumbing down the experiences to appeal to the masses.

Play a boomer shooter, then play an DMC-like action game. Tell me if either one "compromises" their controls for the sake of releasing on both controllers and keyboards. When i spoke of control scheme's and UI, i meant more stuff like having to play CRPG with a controller where its basically a compromise, or how some console ports on PC don't have proper mouse support.

Touch of magic has nothing to do with social aspects nor nostalgia: Analogue movement with Mario 64, Analogue tools in Ape Escape, Pyscho Mantis reading your memory card for other saved games from Konami or having you switch controller ports so he could no longer read your inputs. Monster Rancher letting you build creatures based on your music CDs, Audiosurf building levels based on your MP3 collection, Boktai using a solar sensor, PGR2 having a radio station that was just playlists from your hard drive, Silent Hill 2's fog system on PS2 outclassing its' ports, etc. Most recently we had the incredible feeling of rain in Astrobot using the DualSense.

Creativity still exists you know, and the vast majority of it remains hardware agnostic as always. Not to mention stuff like SH2 having a better fog system than competitors is a limitation of other hardware or most likely a result of poor porting, not a "touch of magic".

Honestly, i still get the feeling you're just nostalgic for time's past, rather than anything concrete.

 

[bender]

Play a boomer shooter, then play an DMC-like action game. Tell me if either one "compromises" their controls for the sake of releasing on both controllers and keyboards. When i spoke of control scheme's and UI, i meant more stuff like having to play CRPG with a controller where its basically a compromise, or how some console ports on PC don't have proper mouse support.


Creativity still exists you know, and the vast majority of it remains hardware agnostic as always. Not to mention stuff like SH2 having a better fog system than competitors is a limitation of other hardware or most likely a result of poor porting, not a "touch of magic".

Honestly, i still get the feeling you're just nostalgic for time's past, rather than anything concrete.

I've played and enjoyed some boomer shooters, particularly Dusk. Beyond those being poor examples as they are aiming for a retro vibe, you seem to be thinking I'm speaking terms of all and none, which I'm not. Everything old isn't better than everything new and everything new isn't worse than everything old, obviously. Personally, where PC hardware is pushed the most is usually for games I have the least interest in, but PC hardware isn't alone in the preference.

SH2 (since you singled one of many examples I provided), was actually a technical limitation of the competition of the time. There were times in the past that consoles could do some tasks better than PC hardware relative to the time they were released.

While there is always nostalgia, creativity is often bread from limitations and strengths of any given system. And with system design being so similar and games targeting every system for the largest audiences, you'll see less exploiting of any given strengths (if there are any left to be had) and only the reins being held back by the lowest common denominators.

 

[Guilty_AI]

While there is always nostalgia, creativity is often bread from limitations and strengths of any given system. And with system design being so similar and games targeting every system for the largest audiences, you'll see less exploiting of any given strengths (if there are any left to be had)

See? This is my beef. Why you speak as if the games we have today all have similar systems? If we're talking about cookie cutter AAA stuff, sure, but we both know that isn't representative of the modern gaming market.

And if we're talking about limitations and strengths, there's still tons to be had nowadays, these factors will never go away. Just because consoles and PCs are now more similar, that reality of game development won't change.

and only the reins being held back by the lowest common denominators.

Like i said before, if that was true every game would be made with mobile devices in mind.

 

[bender]

Why you speak as if the games we have today all have similar systems?

I didn't. I said hardware has become more similar.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I didn't. I said hardware has become more similar.

And what difference does it make if we still have new and unique game design and systems regardless?

 

[Edmund]

I have friends who spend on a brand new PC with a RTX 4080 or even the 4090 and then they proceed to pirate games like Baldurs Gate 3 claiming that games are too expensive nowadays. I fucking hate it when they do this.

 

[bender]

And what difference does it make if we still have new and unique game design and systems regardless?

It matters in that you are arguing against things I'm not saying. I'm also not arguing that we aren't seeing new and unique design, just less of it. That has a lot of factors including matured design and control standards, budgets, platform agnosticism, target audiences, etc.

 

[ForAcademicPurposes]

It will be once Sony ports WipEout to the Henry Cavill station

Fuck

 

[OverHeat]

People’s who says that it’s not are in denial lol

 

[Guilty_AI]

It matters in that you are arguing against things I'm not saying. I'm also not arguing that we aren't seeing new and unique design, just less of it. That has a lot of factors including matured design and control standards, budgets, platform agnosticism, target audiences, etc.

Platform agnosticism can barely be called a cause for it. The main - perhaps only - real cause for you perceiving less unique design can be attributted to mature control/design standards (aka, we know better what kind of control schemes and game design suck now), and the fact in the 70s/80s/90s there was basically nothing to compare with before since the gaming industry was still in its dawn as well as following the rapid technological advances from the era, making it very unlikely for anything that came out a decade later to be similar to what came before.

 

[VeganElduderino]

 

[bender]

Platform agnosticism can barely be called a cause for it.

In your limited view, maybe. This creative gumbo has a lot of ingredients.

 

[Gp1]

This generation?
Since the resurgence in the 2008/10 PC has been the best platform.

When you consider emulation is a no brainer.

 

[angrod14]

It's incredible how closed minded some PC elitists are, stating their preferences as an objective standard. How could you not see the appeal of consoles beyond the price point? They're easy, safe, plug and play, and have many exclusive games that aren't on PC. They're meant to be played on the couch, which you could do with a PC but it just isn't as snappy. Fuck gaming on a monitor.

What is "superior" to you is a hindrance to many people. I don't want to fuck around with settings, benchmarks, check if my setup will be compatible with upcoming games, if certain shit is "optimized for AMD or Nvidia", to troubleshoot stuff, etc. I don't want mods, I feel they shit on the creators intentions and cheapen the games. If some people find value in them, great. But I don't care about that.

And are you seriously going to not address the fact that PC gets the shittiest ports most of the times? Imagine spending money on a 4090 to get ports like Arkham Knight, TLOU Part I, Dead Space Remake, Elden Ring and having to wait for them to be patched. It's just laughable. Master race my ass.

Also, no option for physical media. No game ownership whatsoever. Have fun with your licenses.

I understand why some enthusiast like the "openness" of PC but like I said, to many others that's actually a minus, not a plus.

 

[Clintizzle]

Had a very funny convo with a friend of mine. We were talking about Helldivers and how it's been a little buggy (heh) on the PS5 and he said PC is the best platform for gaming. He said he could never go back to console. So I asked him about his PC specs and said he had a fucking GTX980.....

 

[Buggy Loop]

It's incredible how closed minded some PC elitists are, stating their preferences as an objective standard.

*Goes to state his preferences as an objective standard*

So much gibberish in your post and outdated views, it's literally what year is this.gif

 

[rofif]

Had a very funny convo with a friend of mine. We were talking about Helldivers and how it's been a little buggy (heh) on the PS5 and he said PC is the best platform for gaming. He said he could never go back to console. So I asked him about his PC specs and said he had a fucking GTX980.....

Ignorance and lack of knowledge. Many pc players love their pc but they don’t know anything about it

 

[Buggy Loop]

Had a very funny convo with a friend of mine. We were talking about Helldivers and how it's been a little buggy (heh) on the PS5 and he said PC is the best platform for gaming. He said he could never go back to console. So I asked him about his PC specs and said he had a fucking GTX980.....

It's equivalent to a 1060, slightly faster in general



Is there a problem?

That's also part of what is nice on PC, you can stretch hardware to whatever you feel you can live with settings wise. Scalability. Isn't that nice? No generational cutoff and some low-medium settings sometimes have barely a difference with high. His optimized settings are in the 60 fps at 1080p.

On a 10 years old GPU

I would say this is more impressive than the opposite.

Ignorance and lack of knowledge. Many pc players love their pc but they don’t know anything about it

What makes you say that? To keep a 980 10 years later and still play modern 2024 games. How is this a negative, what makes you say he's ignorant and lacks knowledge. What a shit take. I would expect nothing else

 

[Clintizzle]

It's equivalent to a 1060, slightly faster in general



Is there a problem?

That's also part of what is nice on PC, you can stretch hardware to whatever you feel you can live with settings wise. Scalability. Isn't that nice? No generational cutoff and some low-medium settings sometimes have barely a difference with high. His optimized settings are in the 60 fps at 1080p.

On a 10 years old GPU

I would say this is more impressive than the opposite.



What makes you say that? To keep a 980 10 years later and still play modern 2024 games. How is this a negative, what makes you say he's ignorant and lacks knowledge. What a shit take. I would expect nothing else

Not so much a problem but a preference. While Helldivers looks good, there are many graphically advanced games that just would not have a good time on a 980/1060. Even at 1080p.

 

[BacklashWave534]

Isn’t this rare? For me, the last 10 years has been like gaming on consoles, just more expensive, and better. Only issue I’ve had is Dirt 3 having some old Games for Windows lock, they uploaded a new version after awhile.
The cost is the big hurdle imo. But if you can go without both Xbox and Playstation and skip the midgen upgrades the differences gets smaller.

Definitely a very old argument. PC gaming is pretty strightforward these days. It's nice to not have to choose between graphics and framerate.

 

[Gaiff]

Ignorance and lack of knowledge. Many pc players love their pc but they don’t know anything about it

This has to be irony. You're the one saying shit like 30fps is fine and play perfectly working PC games on your PS5 instead of your 3080-powered rig, then you have the nerve to call someone content with a low-tier PC ignorant.

If it was some guy playing on a PS4, you wouldn't call him ignorant.

 

[Gaiff]

Not so much a problem but a preference. While Helldivers looks good, there are many graphically advanced games that just would not have a good time on a 980/1060. Even at 1080p.

Probably doesn't play them. I know more than a few PC gamers who only play stuff like DOTA, CS, LoL, and other highly popular non-demanding games.

 

[64bitmodels]

Ignorance and lack of knowledge. Many pc players love their pc but they don’t know anything about it

Somebody still gaming on a 980 in 2024 knows their shit, they know what games to play on their old ass card and know how to keep shit running the best it possibly can.

 

[Fredrik]

Definitely a very old argument. PC gaming is pretty strightforward these days. It's nice to not have to choose between graphics and framerate.

I’d say that the actual purchase and building the PC is the big obstacle. I’m trying to build a smaller sized living room PC right now and there’s like a million choices. Better prebuilds would take PC gaming to the next level. Or if Valve would jump in with Steam boxes again, they did an amazing job with Steam Deck.

 

[drganon]

 

[rofif]

It's equivalent to a 1060, slightly faster in general



Is there a problem?

That's also part of what is nice on PC, you can stretch hardware to whatever you feel you can live with settings wise. Scalability. Isn't that nice? No generational cutoff and some low-medium settings sometimes have barely a difference with high. His optimized settings are in the 60 fps at 1080p.

On a 10 years old GPU

I would say this is more impressive than the opposite.



What makes you say that? To keep a 980 10 years later and still play modern 2024 games. How is this a negative, what makes you say he's ignorant and lacks knowledge. What a shit take. I would expect nothing else

It’s not negative he kept the card. I didn’t say that.
It’s negative to keep saying it’s the best way to play even though that’s highly debatable with 980

 

[rofif]

This has to be irony. You're the one saying shit like 30fps is fine and play perfectly working PC games on your PS5 instead of your 3080-powered rig, then you have the nerve to call someone content with a low-tier PC ignorant.

If it was some guy playing on a PS4, you wouldn't call him ignorant.

Read again. I didn’t call him ignorant for playing on pc. I call him ignorant for blindly saying it’s the best with weaker hardware.
I play on ps5 because I like to and pc gaming makes me feel like a fool.

Edit: and you are comparing preference to stating a fact. And I’ve played maybe 2 30fps games so far this gen. Wow such 30fps player. I am a monster for being able to enjoy a game

 

[rofif]

Somebody still gaming on a 980 in 2024 knows their shit, they know what games to play on their old ass card and know how to keep shit running the best it possibly can.

lol how do? Somebody still using 980 is someone still using 980. You don’t have to be a genius to keep using older gpu. But you have to be an ignorant to keep saying these statements while your pc experience stopped 10 years ago.
eh whatever. Keep playing on pc. You guys will say it’s the best place to play no matter what.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I’d say that the actual purchase and building the PC is the big obstacle. I’m trying to build a smaller sized living room PC right now and there’s like a million choices. Better prebuilds would take PC gaming to the next level. Or if Valve would jump in with Steam boxes again, they did an amazing job with Steam Deck.

I just got a prebuilt back in November. They have improved greatly from the awful Dells and Gateways of the past.
I have been away from the PC scene for a long time. 2013 with a GTX 660, that I upgraded to a GTX 1080ti in 2017.
I thought I was going to be overwhelmed, but it did not take very long to get a feel for all the current hardware. (Standardization).

Small size and quiet was something that I was looking for in a living room PC. Check out the size of the one I bought.
It's the same height as the launch PS5. It's quiet at Idle, And it's much quieter than the PS4 Pro under load.

Legion Tower 5i Gen 8 (Intel) with RTX 4070

ww-single-model-gaming-desktops-default

www.lenovo.com

 

[FireFly]

Read again. I didn’t call him ignorant for playing on pc. I call him ignorant for blindly saying it’s the best with weaker hardware.

There are other reasons for preferring playing on PC besides better graphics, such as mouse and keyboard support, cheaper games, having full control over game settings.

 

[Gamezone]

Just checked gpu prices and there still 3x as much as a ps5 lol. I do think GeForcenow is the better deal than any console though.

The RTX 4080 is probably 3x as much as a PS5, but it's also way more powerful, and you can beat the PS5 performance with a much cheaper GPU.

Also, Geforce NOW (just like any other streaming service) is trash. If we ignore the added latency, the selection of games are so weak, and they usually just add a bunch of indie games weekly.