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[Men_in_Boxes]

Is Halo dead? Seems like more alive than ever...

"Dead" as in there's an ever growing space of game types, each with its own market share?

Wait Halo is dead?

"Dead" (a word not found in the OP) does not equal "underperformed" (a word found in the OP).

A case can be made that Halo Infinite is not performing as well as Microsoft and 343 expected/wanted, yes.

Counter strike says hello

The exception that proves the rule?

The only thing I can think of as to why Counter Strike is so successful is because it's a far better social experience than the "old style" multiplayer as defined in the OP. I do agree it's certainly on that end of the spectrum though.

 

[M1chl]

"Dead" (a word not found in the OP) does not equal "underperformed" (a word found in the OP).

A case can be made that Halo Infinite is not performing as well as Microsoft and 343 expected/wanted, yes.




The exception that proves the rule?

The only thing I can think of as to why Counter Strike is so successful is because it's a far better social experience than the "old style" multiplayer as defined in the OP. I do agree it's certainly on that end of the spectrum though.

Oh I didn't know that, just seeing a lot of Halo everywhere on the youtube, without me searching for it. So it seemed pretty popular game, I am not sure what the launch was and it's part F2P, so that might rise the bar about how it needs to perform. How many stupid shit it needs to sell through MTX, atc.

 

[Holammer]

While not qualifying as old style by OPs definition, CS:GO is still freakin' huge and TF2 is actually growing despite Valve's best attempts at killing it.
The industry needs these "old style" games in evergreen iterations that you don't have to re-buy every year. Halo Infinite having MP f2p is a step in the right direction

That's why I think f2p games like Valorant and CrossfireX (also League of Legends Wildfire) will shake-up and put another serious dent in future COD/BF on consoles.

 

[Excess]

Are these types of games done

"Dead" (a word not found in the OP) does not equal "underperformed" (a word found in the OP).

Done, dead, are we really splitting hairs?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Done, dead, are we really splitting hairs?

I meant done as in "Is AAA multiplayer going to move away from those types of games?", not "Halo is dead!"

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

rewards? You play video games for rewards? The reward for playing games is fun. Always has been and shouldn’t change

It's some participation trophy generation mindset nonsense; people who say shit like that immediately strike me as having never played sports.
The "reward" is that you get to play and have fun, maybe even win, but most definitely improve at the activity.
The incessant need to constantly be rewarded, is the reason modern gaming has so much stuff that resembles gambling, with just constant dopamine hits; for some people it almost becomes playing for the next dopamine hit to flash on screen, instead of just having fun with the activity itself, like people forcing themselves to grind out a "battle pass".

But whatever, people can do whatever they want I guess.

 

[Batiman]

It's some participation trophy generation mindset nonsense; people who say shit like that immediately strike me as having never played sports.
The "reward" is that you get to play and have fun, maybe even win, but most definitely improve at the activity.
The incessant need to constantly be rewarded, is the reason modern gaming has so much stuff that resembles gambling, with just constant dopamine hits; for some people it almost becomes playing for the next dopamine hit to flash on screen, instead of just having fun with the activity itself, like people forcing themselves to grind out a "battle pass".

But whatever, people can do whatever they want I guess.

Explained it much better then I could

 

[Warablo]

The future is Battle Royals and Hunt Showdown/Escape From Tarkov like multiplayer. Rainbow Six could come out with Siege 2 and it would sell well.

 

[Phase]

I really think someone needs to make a somewhat casual arena shooter again (something like Halo), so it has low barrier of entry. Splitgate is close, but the skill floor is a tad high imo. Some of these recent arena shooters have focused too much on perfecting a completely competitive environment, which isn't very fun to most.

Games like Diabotical, Toxikk, Reflex, Nexuiz, Xonotic all have this issue. Barrier of entry is too high.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I really think someone needs to make a somewhat casual arena shooter again (something like Halo), so it has low barrier of entry. Splitgate is close, but the skill floor is a tad high imo. Some of these recent arena shooters have focused too much on perfecting a completely competitive environment, which isn't very fun to most.

Games like Diabotical, Toxikk, Reflex, Nexuiz, Xonotic all have this issue. Barrier of entry is too high.

Knockout City is what you're looking for. Or Splatoon maybe?

 

[teezzy]

I prefer fighting games, but this thread stinks

 

[Phase]

Knockout City is what you're looking for. Or Splatoon maybe?

Well I like shooting in my arena fps games. I watched my brother play Splatoon on Switch and it's meh. I also need a setting and atmosphere that I find interesting.

Actually most of my favorite afps have hooked me with a campaign first.
>Unreal to UT
>Quake
>Halo

 

[Phase]

Well I like shooting in my arena fps games. I watched my brother play Splatoon on Switch and it's meh. I also need a setting and atmosphere that I find interesting.

Actually most of my favorite afps have hooked me with a campaign first.
>Unreal to UT
>Quake
>Halo

An interesting observation after making this post is that all of these franchises are science fiction shooters. This lends itself to more freedom in mechanics and movement that other more realistic arena shooters aren't afforded.

There it is! The solution! I've solved it. Here you go devs: Make a cool and interesting sci-fi universe. Then make an arena fps based on it. Instant success.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Have you payed attention to the multiplayer games out? TDM is still massive in COD and Halo is healthier than ever...the battle royale genre is huge but other games still have massive presences.

 

[BigBooper]

Counterstrike is still going strong. I suspect if they were to release another one it would be successful. The COD games frequently change up their playstyle so it's hard to say they had a consistent style. Quake just had a poor launch and barely any marketing so hard to say on that one.

 

[Alexios]

Why's this discussing old and otherwise I guess new based on time when if are plenty old games that last way longer and new games that still play quick and how the frak is this about a general vague mutliplayer if you just wanna talk casual first person shooter stuff like modern COD style bs?

 

[tygertrip]

The younger generation seems to have the need for some kind of progression in their games to hold their attention. It is not about good core gameplay alone anymore. I would love to see a comeback for these kind of games but i don't think it will happen. At Least not on a bigger scale.

“The only constant is change”. I’ve played more Halo Infinite than any other online game in years, and I probably still have less than 10 hours. Far cry from my early 20s when I’d play Quake constantly. People, like me, that like arena shooters are usually older, and we’re too sleepy to play these games a lot. So the crappy shit that the youngns like will take over. Same old song, different day.

 

[tygertrip]

I've had more fun with Halo Infinite than COD or Battlefield recently. The last real Battlefied I enjoyed was 4 and the last COD that kept me engaged was modern warfare 2. Halo has brought back my joy of multiplayer. It is an older style of multiplayer.

Halo Infinite is the best since Titanfall 2, in my opinion. My kids and I sometimes play Quake together. Their reflexes are great , but Once the routes come back to me, I start spanking that ass.

 

[tygertrip]

Yes the rewards are fun for me dingus. Sure, playing the game is fun but it's even more fun when you get rewarded.

If you fail to see that then you must really live a boring life. Either that or you have lower standards than others. Good luck having a game in today's day with 0 rewards or anything for your time. It will bomb and fail miserably.

Holy shit, that’s sad.

 

[tygertrip]

Do you really view a sense of progression as negative or something kids need?

Back in the 70's and 80's a bunch of single player games failed to provide gamers with a real sense of progression. They were essentially score chasing games, similar to how people chased scores in Unreal Tournament or traditional Call of Duty multiplayer (KD, rankings).

Then developers started making games like Zelda or Final Fantasy and progression almost became mandatory in the single player space.

How come a wider sense of progression is a negative here? Unless I'm mischaracterizing your position...

That is one poor ass Space Invaders knock-off!!

 

[EverydayBeast]

Somehow Halo still reigns supreme.

 

[tygertrip]

Where have you been OP? It's been long gone.

Might as well let out what I hate about modern shooters here.

Unless it's a class based FPS your K/D should be the only thing that matters. No kill assists either. Kill assists are put there to make people feel better about not getting a kill. If your score is based solely on the amount of kills you get it's the best display of skill there is in an FPS.

Also I rather go back to where there were faction specific weapons. Ex. Russians have AK's and Americans have M4's. It was more immersive and fun.

Another example Battlefield 2142:

Pan-Asian coalition

European Union

I don't need ranks, unlocks, and retarded skins to have fun. I can't believe people need that shit to have fun in an FPS. First place on the scoreboard, achievements, and overall stats are the only things that should matter.

I agree, but I like kill assists because my reflexes have gone to shit and motherfuckers be stealing my kill. So there.

 

[ANDS]

This game really rubbed someone the wrong way.

. . .where's that Jeff Goldblum when you need him.

I meant done as in "Is AAA multiplayer going to move away from those types of games?", not "Halo is dead!"

Original posts talks about "player retention. . ." What exactly was someone meant to take from that?

 

[tygertrip]

It's some participation trophy generation mindset nonsense; people who say shit like that immediately strike me as having never played sports.
The "reward" is that you get to play and have fun, maybe even win, but most definitely improve at the activity.
The incessant need to constantly be rewarded, is the reason modern gaming has so much stuff that resembles gambling, with just constant dopamine hits; for some people it almost becomes playing for the next dopamine hit to flash on screen, instead of just having fun with the activity itself, like people forcing themselves to grind out a "battle pass".

But whatever, people can do whatever they want I guess.

This battle pass shit is nuts, to me. At first, I thought it was a way to just unlock cosmetics without grinding. I didn’t look very close because I don’t give a damn about cosmetics in a first person shooter. Then I come to find out a battle pass is where people PAY to grind out cosmeticrewards for their avatar??? Like a virtual GI Joe? Or, with zoomers, maybe a Barbie doll. WTF. I immediately went outside and yelled at some clouds. Then I came back in and told my kids if they ever payed real money for a battle pass there would be hell to pay. JFC, just JFC. But to each their own. Their time will come.

 

[CitizenZ]

There is a reason they went FTP.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

this battle pass shit is nuts, to me. At first, I thought it was a way to just unlock cosmetics without grinding.

A battle pass itself is fine, and most do have a "free track" of content on it, they generally only exist when a company keeps adding free content to a game, and that free content has to be paid for somehow. That's where you get battle passes and cosmetic packs, and if you actively play a game, most battle passes will just complete themselves naturally (and of course supply players with that dopamine hit whenever it levels up).

The problem I'm talking about specifically, is when the players begins to feel "compelled" to log in and play, because they "have to" work/grind on the battle pass (or whatever other kind of ultimately ephemeral "reward"); at that point you're no longer playing for the sake of playing, but for flashy on screen animations and the "rewards" that come with it.

 

[tygertrip]

A battle pass itself is fine, and most do have a "free track" of content on it, they generally only exist when a company keeps adding free content to a game, and that free content has to be paid for somehow. That's where you get battle passes and cosmetic packs, and if you actively play a game, most battle passes will just complete themselves naturally (and of course supply players with that dopamine hit whenever it levels up).

The problem I'm talking about specifically, is when the players begins to feel "compelled" to log in and play, because they "have to" work/grind on the battle pass (or whatever other kind of ultimately ephemeral "reward"); at that point you're no longer playing for the sake of playing, but for flashy on screen animations and the "rewards" that come with it.

Oh, dont get me wrong, I appreciate that people paying for cosmetics means I get the game free. Anyway, anyone feeling compelled to grind needs to get a job or something, lol. I can see kids falling for it especially, being too inexperienced to see the big picture. Edit: I say this shit knowing good and well I used to grind for hours to level up in Chrono Trigger and Baldurs Gate back in the day. Ooh, I can shoot another magic missile!

 

[manfestival]

I guess Halo Infinite was DOA

 

[Batiman]

There is a reason they went FTP.

What didn’t go FTP?

 

[V4skunk]

It's dead.
64 player killed it years ago.
CS and Halo do well though and I'd like to see ID reboot Quake1 as a series.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Have you payed attention to the multiplayer games out? TDM is still massive in COD and Halo is healthier than ever...the battle royale genre is huge but other games still have massive presences.

I'm not sure if TDM is that popular anymore, which is why we're seeing TDM based multiplayer underperform (relatively speaking).

Original posts talks about "player retention. . ." What exactly was someone meant to take from that?

Player retention is the ability to keep players engaged.

 

[Krappadizzle]

A case can be made that Halo Infinite is not performing as well as Microsoft and 343 expected/wanted, yes.

Make the case then. As there's nothing to really validate what you are spewing.

 

[Black_Stride]

"Dead" (a word not found in the OP) does not equal "underperformed" (a word found in the OP).

A case can be made that Halo Infinite is not performing as well as Microsoft and 343 expected/wanted, yes.




The exception that proves the rule?

The only thing I can think of as to why Counter Strike is so successful is because it's a far better social experience than the "old style" multiplayer as defined in the OP. I do agree it's certainly on that end of the spectrum though.

How did Halo underperform?
What was Microsofts audience targets, what was the Gamepass influx target, what was their sales target, Is Steam where they measure success?

Simply getting in front of Call of Duty Warzone when Call of Duty just got an update is huge huge achievement.

I legit didnt think Halo Infinite would even break the top 5 let alone actually get to number 2 or number 1.

 

[Phase]

Make the case then. As there's nothing to really validate what you are spewing.

Well steady decline isn't nice.

Though these numbers are still fine I'd rather it be picking up steam instead of cooling off. A lot of decisions 343 made impacted interest in the game.

 

[01011001]

A case can be made that Halo Infinite is not performing as well as Microsoft and 343 expected/wanted, yes.

if 343 and Microsoft expected Infinite to be more popular than it currently is, then they are fucking delusional after 4 and 5 basically killing every momentum the series had and absolutely shitting on a sizable part of the fanbase of the series.

the fact that Infinite is as popular as it is, in an UNFINISHED AS FUCK form nonetheless, is a small miracle if you ask me lol

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Make the case then. As there's nothing to really validate what you are spewing.

- The decline on Steam doesn't seem healthy.

- The fact that it slipped to #3 on XBL Most Played list 3 weeks after launch seems disappointing.

- The Halo subreddit shutting down because the fanbase got too toxic is a canary in the coalmine event.

- The Battle Pass complaints popping up a day or two after release, from a population I wouldn't peg as F2P Battle Pass fanboys was something.

Halo is Microsofts biggest, most important franchise. Halo Infinite is the most expensive game Microsoft has ever made. You have to assume expectations were a little loftier than sliding past titles like Warframe and Naraka Bladepoint during its honeymoon period right?

It's not dead. It's not a flop. I'm sure it's making MS lots of money. But it feels more Kathleen Kennedy Star Wars than The Empire Strikes Back. It's at this point, imo, because old style multiplayer doesn't appeal to people like it once did.

 

[tygertrip]

- The decline on Steam doesn't seem healthy.

- The fact that it slipped to #3 on XBL Most Played list 3 weeks after launch seems disappointing.

- The Halo subreddit shutting down because the fanbase got too toxic is a canary in the coalmine event.

- The Battle Pass complaints popping up a day or two after release, from a population I wouldn't peg as F2P Battle Pass fanboys was something.

Halo is Microsofts biggest, most important franchise. Halo Infinite is the most expensive game Microsoft has ever made. You have to assume expectations were a little loftier than sliding past titles like Warframe and Naraka Bladepoint during its honeymoon period right?

It's not dead. It's not a flop. I'm sure it's making MS lots of money. But it feels more Kathleen Kennedy Star Wars than The Empire Strikes Back. It's at this point, imo, because old style multiplayer doesn't appeal to people like it once did.

Halo subreddit? Reddit is a containment site for pedos, shut-ins, freaks, and communists. Being “toxic” there just means some freak pedo jannie doesn’t like your opinion. That particular point means nothing.

 

[Con-Z-epT]

Makes no sense.

Call of Duty 4 is 15 years old and was the revolutionary multiplayer game that changed everything. It turned a basic PvP game into a persistent online RPG with leveling up your character for unlocks. Introduced leveling up each weapon, introduced the now standard idea of a loadout customization with perks to unlock, skins to unlock per weapon, and attachment unlocks for each weapon. Even leveling up per attachment per gun.

I've been playing multiplayer games with a sense of long term progression for 15 years.

CoD has had progression systems for almost 15 years. I think adults expect it too. Those 15 year Olds back then are 30 now.

You just have different tastes.

Draw the line for age wherever you want. I'm not saying that this kind of progression is bad in general, just that it affects the games that will be developed as people have come to expect these things in games. There sure will be games released, that harken back to the older days but the focus has shifted.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Been gone for a while,Unreal was the peak for me

 

[ByWatterson]

COD is the biggest game of the year, every year, so no?

The market isn't gone, just consolidates behind COD.

 

[ANDS]

Player retention is the ability to keep players engaged.

How did you gauge this, given your definitive statements in the OP?

 

[Ebidramon]

It was in grave for a long time now.

 

[skit_data]

Counter-Strike.

 

[JimboJones]

It's some participation trophy generation mindset nonsense; people who say shit like that immediately strike me as having never played sports.
The "reward" is that you get to play and have fun, maybe even win, but most definitely improve at the activity.
The incessant need to constantly be rewarded, is the reason modern gaming has so much stuff that resembles gambling, with just constant dopamine hits; for some people it almost becomes playing for the next dopamine hit to flash on screen, instead of just having fun with the activity itself, like people forcing themselves to grind out a "battle pass".

But whatever, people can do whatever they want I guess.

It's like posting on neogaf just for likes. Disgusting behaviour.

If you like the content of this post please Like,Quote and Subscribe.

 

[-tetsuo-]

If you think “X” is dying amd it involves call of duty then you are wrong.

 

[nightmare-slain]

absolutely not. maybe not as popular as it was 10 or so years ago but still plenty of games with simple teams/goals.

 

[Stuart360]

I have noticed quite a lot of streamers i watch from time to time all pretty much say they are bored of Arena shooters, and they are old school etc. DrDisrespect loved Halo Infinite, but he said it was 'a perfect arena' shooter. Overall though Doc and others think arena shooters are old hat now, and BR is where gamers play today.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

If you think “X” is dying amd it involves call of duty then you are wrong.

Call of Duty Warzone is way bigger than traditional "old style" Call of Duty.

 

[Nyxir]

This game really rubbed someone the wrong way.

That’s some unhealthy obsession.