Support NeoGAF

[Moriarty1889]

It all comes back to the games and under Phil Spencer they have failed miserably. Sunset Overdirve was one of the best new IP they had last gen. It was something new and creative. A game they needed to have and more of it. Ted Price reached out to Phil three times to greenlight a sequel and he never even replied to the emails from what Ted Price said. Insomniac then moved on and began work on Ratchet and Clank and then Spiderman for PS4. Phil canned Scalebound another game they needed to bolster their anemic lineup and said it was better for Xbox gamers that he cancelled it…….really??? He then killed the Fable Legends after the beta had been out which was another game they could have used and one that many people actually were looking forward to. The Phantom Dust reboot didn’t happen and instead became just a rerelease of the original game. Letting the Call of Duty deal go saying he didn’t like those kind of deals…….ok Phil. He has made many poor decisions that have killed any momentum gameswise that they have needed since last gen. This gen has been even worse in terms of output. He has put all focus on gamepass and subs and nothing on building the console base or creating new AAA IP. Phil is a company man looking to meet a sub quota that has not reached their expectations as of yet. They even admitted they lose money on their games by putting them day one on gamepass. Yet he continues to push this play anywhere on any device with gamepass narrative til doomsday. His outrageous comments he made today where he basically admitted defeat and said AAA games won’t matter and they could never out console Sony just shows how far gone this man truly is. They purchased all those studios years ago and have not been able to create and deliver anything of substance yet. So yes, games are the reason they are failing and will continue to fail as long as Phil Spencer continues to run xbox into the ground with his self defeating attitude towards the console and its core gamers. You have to build a console base and support it with a continuous supply of new exclusive AAA IP. Not gamepass filler shovelware broken at launch online only rubbish because you only want subs for minimal efforts and broken promises. People demand better and need to vote with their wallets against this type of nonsense. End of rant.

 

[adamsapple]

You're not thicc_girls_are_teh_best

 

[SoraNoKuni]

1.
Gamepass can't sustain good triple a games because it's a subscription, people won't subscribe for months straight because 1 single big game is released per year.

2.
Gamepass is at least a bit at fault here.
It undervalues their products to just "good enough" status, pretty much like Netflix with it's trash content and I would argue that almost every movie/show subscription has mostly b tier content made for toddlers so they can keep up feeding the hoards with content, same is slowly happening with GP.

3.
As a business model the decision to release first party games day one on GP was literally seppuku, they tried to market it that way to make a statement and gather userbase but it was literally just a gamble, a wiser and a market leader as Sony has stated that it makes no sense, and no sense it does, the drawbacks for the consumer are as many as for the corporation, both for the quality of the product and the profit margins.

4. GP userbase claims is mostly people that stockpiled 1$ subscription or got in from Pringles/monster and other product trials and do not represent a loyal userbase that is willing to pay for months for the service, Nadella has literally been scammed by Phil and his car salesman tactics, the loyal userbase too.

5. Phil had a vision but risked way too much for this, at this point he will lose even the brand loyalists he had by releasing subpar games that used to be great and represent the brand, he needs to go, but I have to admit, shitting the bed so bad may turn the CMA to pity them and approve the deal, then COD will save them.
Phil's last card is that "acquisition".

(Edited in)
6. And maybe that's the endgame, "kill" the Xbox brand for the loyalists and make it a more casual service for everyone, transform it in a sense that appeals to the casual gamer that wants to play some random thing for an hour per week, abandoning the roots, again the key is COD... Add fifa too and gg.
(Edited in)

I love XBOX and I really wish instead of all this drama we would just have to talk about GOW vs Halo, Last of us vs gears or some new IP, but...

 

[IFireflyl]

Sony PS+ premium says hi.

https://blog.playstation.com/2023/0...he-quarry-resident-evil-7-biohazard-and-more/

the market is changing now.

To be more clear, I think that a fully (or even majority) subscription-based video game industry will be bad for the industry. Sony/PlayStation has cloud and subscription gaming as a complement. Microsoft/Xbox wants cloud and subscription gaming to be the norm. I think that's a bad idea. I could be wrong. Time will tell.

 

[Nautilus]

Only the person who can't see the state of industry believes this.
I suggest you check the industry first.



And Netflix is losing people, because they canceling projects left and right plus cracking on passwords share. MS will face that issue if they act like shit and try to force shit on gamepass users.



No, MS does not. The beauty of gamepass is that you as a subscriber have the choice to play games that you want or like. MS puts all kind of genre to the service. Their first party alone isn't enough for gamepass. Especially for a service that will have 50m in the future.



You really don't understand it.
You keep thinking about the math, but not the process of getting there. To reach the end goal, MS should never piss off those users. Especially with Sony making the same service as gamepass.

I agree with you. I suggest you take a good look at it and study the industry properly.

Netflix is losing people because competition appear and started doing stuff better than them. Its as simple as that. Nothing to do with it being unsustainable.

When was the last time they put an AAA single player game there?Of any kind?Maybe Halo Infinite?And even then, half the game is about the multiplayer. I do like their AA offerings(Hi-Fi Rush, Psychonauts 2, Pentenant, etc), but they are not what drives people to a subscription service or a ecosystem.

Of course it shouldn't. Redfall as it is is a mistake. God, go read the first paragraph of my original post. The first thing I say is that MS needs to fix the management of the studios they own. To get a better game of games flowing, and not have bombs like Redfall out.

Ok, this is transforming from a discussion into a "my opinion is better than yours' talk. So I'll end it here my talk with you.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Game pass in its current form is killing Xbox. Why would I want a Xbox console when you can play all their stuff on PC, day one. If I'm buying games on PC, I don't really have a reason invest in the rest of Xbox. Its two things that can save Xbox; Releasing great games. They don't have to even be as big as Sony's games, but Hi-Fi rush has too be the minimum. And have console exclusive games, even if its only for a time (6 months to a year). Give people a reason to want to buy an Xbox. If I have the hardware, I'm more likely to invest in the services, but the games have to be there.

 

[Kacho]

Xbox needs to go back to basics and hire people that know what the fuck they are doing.

 

[feynoob]

Netflix is losing people because competition appear and started doing stuff better than them. Its as simple as that. Nothing to do with it being unsustainable.

Netflix is killing themselves.
Their competition is killing themselves in the process too and can't match Netflix s content libraries.

When was the last time they put an AAA single player game there?Of any kind?Maybe Halo Infinite?And even then, half the game is about the multiplayer. I do like their AA offerings(Hi-Fi Rush, Psychonauts 2, Pentenant, etc), but they are not what drives people to a subscription service or a ecosystem.

3rd party games. I keep saying, but you keep ignoring it

Of course it shouldn't. Redfall as it is is a mistake. God, go read the first paragraph of my original post. The first thing I say is that MS needs to fix the management of the studios they own. To get a better game of games flowing, and not have bombs like Redfall out.

Again, MS content day1 is great for the service, but the drive force is 3rd party content from all genres. Those monthly drop games, which people are anticipating for.

The service grow up to 25m with low first party content. It shows that it wasn't relying on first party to increase the sub count.

 

[adamsapple]

When was the last time they put an AAA single player game there?Of any kind?Maybe Halo Infinite?And even then, half the game is about the multiplayer. I do like their AA offerings(Hi-Fi Rush, Psychonauts 2, Pentenant, etc), but they are not what drives people to a subscription service or a ecosystem.

Of course it shouldn't. Redfall as it is is a mistake. God, go read the first paragraph of my original post. The first thing I say is that MS needs to fix the management of the studios they own. To get a better game of games flowing, and not have bombs like Redfall out.

You realize a lot more content than just first party games go on the service right ?

 

[Nautilus]

You realize a lot more content than just first party games go on the service right ?

Yes?

 

[MarkMe2525]

That's not how failing is spelt. Odd to see such a typo on a video title that's aiming to be taken seriously.

Edit: this has to be spam... Your op is the entire videos transcript.

 

[adamsapple]

Yes?

Then would you even say "when was the last time they put an AAA single player game? Halo Infinite" ...

 

[LordCBH]

I don’t think Gamepass is the problem. It’s fine. Their big problem is day 1 first party launches on Gamepass. It’s fine for some titles like Hi-Fi Rush, but it doesn’t make sense for others. They’re missing out on a LOT of $70 purchases when Starfield launches because it’s same day Gamepass.

Of course their overall crap game output doesn’t help for the most part either.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

True

 

[Jimmyisback]

Nah.

 

[Nautilus]

Then would you even say "when was the last time they put an AAA single player game? Halo Infinite" ...

I meant in regards to Microsoft own output...

 

[Kumomeme]

the reason it is failing is started far before gamepass even existed. the root is that the Xbox itself failed to focus on creating, game, worthy of ip that can become 'face' of the brand. something exclusive that would make people definitely gonna buy their console at first place. this is part of entertainment industy at first place. it is not necessary making a high quality game like Sony does but whats important is creating a bunch of ip that can become the 'mascot' over the brand, something that people will immediately can think of when talk about Xbox. this would gain lot of proper loyal audience and would affected their mindshare. Halo alone is not enough. even Nintendo rely other ip than Mario such as Zelda and Pokemon for example. now with Sony they even expand their ip into tv or film space . this would gain more traction toward the brand and about to leave them to dust if nothing to be done. Nintendo also follow suit with their recent success of Mario movie.

the problem is, i believe they aware of this but they openly denied it by spin lot of word, labelling these as 'bad practices' while creating narrative that their competitor is 'evil' because of that. all of this to take people away attention from the fact they barely has any worthy exclusives unlike their 'rival'. not count how they keep throw promise another promise, and now once they acquire some of big company and ip, they changed their tune.

what make it worse is, all of this not align with their another bussiness focus. they want to focus on making great game but also want to focus on subsciption services, so debate of put AAA game day one there become huge debate instead of they can just acknowledge some of pro and cons of it and make a strong final decision from beginning like Sony does but, since they love to not to be look doing same things as their competitor, they end up prolonged the controversy and promising stuff that could not beneficial toward themself as long their competitor end up as 'bad' counterpart, in narrative. this is just one of example. they also later claim doesnt care with console sales, all favour of their subscription services which is actually contradict themself.

now one of the reason why they seems to be 'late' to the party with tons of not ready game yet in development is partially due to this decades of 'mindset' or the failure to manage things from the very beginning.

in the end what Sony or Nintendo did is the one that they need to do and currently doing. what killing them is obsession of creating winning PR narrative moment instead of focusing deliver most important stuff. some of their fans keep parroting them add fuels to the fire. its like politicians. talk what people want to hear despite actual action needed is totally different. just let their product do the talking. let the game talking. let their performance talking. not Phil Spencer keep talking over and over again.

 

[Arsic]

As a Pc player with no Xbox , gamepass is the best thing from Xbox since its inception.

I get all the hits, lots of surprises , and some great saves never having to invest in their console.

If none of this was on gamepass I can’t think of anything I’d have played or bought from them on PC or console.

There’s legit no reason to own a Xbox unless you’re the most mentally retarded casual on Earth.

 

[Danjin44]

They just need to release quality games, people love shit on switch because its weak system but most people keep buying those system because they are releasing quality games people want to play.

At end of the day all comes down to games.

 

[adamsapple]

I meant in regards to Microsoft own output...

Their 2023 output is outpacing 2022. Redfall turning out to be a bad game doesn't take away from the fact that they're putting out more big games this year. Hell, in an ideal world where Redfall was not shit and an actual competent game, that is the kind of recurring game where they can add more characters and content, that's the kind of game that can drive more game pass engagement and subs. Meanwhile a big ass game like Starfield is a large enough quantity in itself to warrant great interest anyway.

 

[ReBurn]

Counter-opinion:

Xbox is not failing

 

[MarkMe2525]

There’s legit no reason to own a Xbox unless you’re the most mentally retarded casual on Earth.

Pump the brakes a little my guy

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Counter-opinion:

Xbox is not failing

wrong opinion.

Xbox has been failing; that is why they are pivoting so fast and furious....but they haven't been able to execute "their vision".

 

[Pimpbaa]

Game Pass and Forza Horizon are literally the only reasons why I got a Series X. I’m not buying games for it until someone brings out reasonably priced storage expansion.

 

[ReBurn]

wrong opinion.

Xbox has been failing; that is why they are pivoting so fast and furious....but they haven't been able to execute "their vision".

There is no fast and furious pivot going on. They've been doing literally the same thing since the launch of Xbox Series in 2020. They started this generation with Game Pass and PC as points of focus with releases coming to both day 1.

 

[Black_Mamba]

Why no one is talking about how difficult it is now to create a good game in western studios when they're all riddled with crazy activism, diversity and incompetence? The people who used to make great games in the past were expelled from them and either retired or partnered with asian companies. The senior employees of Ubisoft and Activision who were still coping with the madness ended up leaving after the recent scandals.

MS can't make good games because they were always focused on western developers, and it's over for them. But Sony has Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, etc? Ok, but these are still recycling IPs created a long time ago and I doubt they will be able to create new, interesting games for much longer.

 

[ReBurn]

Why no one is talking about how difficult it is now to create a good game in western studios when they're all riddled with crazy activism, diversity and incompetence? The people who used to make great games in the past were expelled from them and either retired or partnered with asian companies. The senior employees of Ubisoft and Activision who were still coping with the madness ended up leaving after the recent scandals.

MS can't make good games because they were always focused on western developers, and it's over for them. But Sony has Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, etc? Ok, but these are still recycling IPs created a long time ago and I doubt they will be able to create new, interesting games for much longer.

Because diversity isn't the problem. Which people do you think should be making games? What are the ideal characteristics for developers?

 

[THE DUCK]

Is there a place we can vote for the most wrong post of the year?

 

[Nautilus]

Their 2023 output is outpacing 2022. Redfall turning out to be a bad game doesn't take away from the fact that they're putting out more big games this year. Hell, in an ideal world where Redfall was not shit and an actual competent game, that is the kind of recurring game where they can add more characters and content, that's the kind of game that can drive more game pass engagement and subs. Meanwhile a big ass game like Starfield is a large enough quantity in itself to warrant great interest anyway.

Of course its outpacing 2022. They barely put out anything out in 2022 lol.

About the Redfall bit: Yes, that's exactly my point. And that's the problem with Gamepass, because that's exactly the kind of game it needs, it requires, it fosters, in detriment of other types. Everything is rainbow and sunshine for now, but if MS manages to get the monopoly over subscription services as they plan, and subscription services grow to the point that they are the main source of income for gaming devs, then that will be a bad thing, because Game Pass will require devs to only make certain kind of games for them to be successful.

That's the core idea of my opinion.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

There is no fast and furious pivot going on. They've been doing literally the same thing since the launch of Xbox Series in 2020. They started this generation with Game Pass and PC as points of focus with releases coming to both day 1.

is fast and furious baby. there is not doubt about it.

Xbox PR/messaging has been quite agressive (Furious) and the fact of promising Day One First Party Games out of the gate on Game Pass (Fast).

 

[Nautilus]

Why no one is talking about how difficult it is now to create a good game in western studios when they're all riddled with crazy activism, diversity and incompetence? The people who used to make great games in the past were expelled from them and either retired or partnered with asian companies. The senior employees of Ubisoft and Activision who were still coping with the madness ended up leaving after the recent scandals.

MS can't make good games because they were always focused on western developers, and it's over for them. But Sony has Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, etc? Ok, but these are still recycling IPs created a long time ago and I doubt they will be able to create new, interesting games for much longer.

That's a really good discussion, but that's another topic entirely. And I'm not making one about that today.

 

[ReBurn]

is fast and furious baby. there is not doubt about it.

Xbox PR/messaging has been quite agressive (Furious) and the fact of promising Day One First Party Games out of the gate on Game Pass (Fast).

Which first party games have not released day 1 on Game Pass?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Which first-party games have not released day 1 on Game Pass?

the correct question is: How Many AAA GOTY contenders AND New IPs MS has been able to produce since that promise?

 

[ZehDon]

Game Pass is not the reason why it is failing. It's failing because the games are being released in poor states and not being put under good-quality control.

/thread

We're done here.

 

[Black_Mamba]

Because diversity isn't the problem. Which people do you think should be making games? What are the ideal characteristics for developers?

This kind of people:

People with talent, that do it for passion, because they want to build their dream games. MS should look for talent in indie teams, find them around the world, in China, South Korea, Poland or wherever country where they can dedicate to their passion without being swallowed by woke people. Fund them, take risks.

 

[RGB'D]

Weird question but I imagine microsoft doesn't allow crunch given their policies? Does SONY? It seems like crunch has always been a huge part of the industry and could also partly explain some differences in efficiency? I have no idea on this but am legitimately asking a question.

 

[Captain Toad]

They just need to release quality games, people love shit on switch because its weak system but most people keep buying those system because they are releasing quality games people want to play.

At end of the day all comes dow to games.

Exactly.

Now, can you tell Mr. Spencer that?

 

[Danjin44]

Exactly.

Now, can you tell Mr. Spencer that?

I'm calling but his not answering his phone.

 

[Captain Toad]

I'm calling but his not answering his phone.

He must be Facetiming with Greg Miller.

 

[Danjin44]

He must be Facetiming with Greg Miller.

How dare he he ignore my calls!

 

[newtypepilot]

microsoft doesn't want to focus on games because they think AAA titles take too much resources and time to make. They want to push another subscription down players' throats because recurring revenue looks good in a financial report. They have been doing this since 360 when they realize people are dumb enough to pay a subscription for online multiplayer.

 

[MarkMe2525]

the correct question is: How Many AAA GOTY contenders AND New IPs MS has been able to produce since that promise?

The gaming market is not a zero sum game.

 

[Ozzie666]

Gamepass is impacting their image for sure. Just like N64 and Nintendo systems. Customers buy Nintendo consoles primarily for Nintendo games, with third party games since N64 not seeing the same level of success as NES/SNES/GENESIS and even PS1. Nintendo can carry a console on their own backs with their own titles. The Switch has changed this very little, despite its success.

Microsoft is linked to Gamepass, people buy it for Gamepass as the selling point. Series X was supposed to be the best place for third-party, but it hasn't turned out the way. Problem is Gamepass is also on PC with a high % of titles on both.

 

[bender]

I meant in regards to Microsoft own output...

Redfall

 

[killatopak]

I think it's the reason they're still here to be honest. They just went about the wrong way of doing it although I can't blame it either since they need subscribers. Basically, I don't think bringing GP to PC is a good idea at least in its current form.

The change is simple. Keep your first party on Xbox.

 

[nush]

Somewhere along the way, major studios lost the plot and are just bleeding as a result.

If it was the movie business it would be like making each successive sequel more expensive, with a longer run-time and upping the ticket price each time.

 

[feynoob]

How dare he he ignore my calls!

 

[SpiceRacz]

Nearly 3 years in and Xbox still doesn't have a killer app this gen. Pretty simple.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

The gaming market is not a zero sum game.

Phil thinks it is. How stupid he is.

 

[lefty1117]

What does Gamepass have to do with no good exclusives? The xbox needs good exclusives, and though it pains me to say it they probably need a window of exclusivity from PC on release to stimulate console sales because there is probably some cannibalization going on with PS owners that also have PCs. Sony does the same thing - keep exlusive to their console and then port to PC in year 2 or 3. They're in a tough spot right now. They need good exclusives. Gamepass is the least of their problems.