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Is it okay to assume your own gender?

BigBooper

Member
Since we can't decide who or what we're attracted to and it's not a choice, wouldn't it be wrong to assume we're straight or queer or something else?

How do I know that I'm only straight? Possibly I just haven't encountered the other type of being that I'm sexually attracted to. Kind if like agnosticism for perverts.
 

thief183

Member
Since we can't decide who or what we're attracted to and it's not a choice, wouldn't it be wrong to assume we're straight or queer or something else?

How do I know that I'm only straight? Possibly I just haven't encountered the other type of being that I'm sexually attracted to. Kind if like agnosticism for perverts.

Do you have a penis? If yes you are a man, if not you are a woman, if you hot both or either you have a problem.
 

Gargus

Banned
Anyone can be whatever they want as long as they shut the fuck up about and just be it without having to annoy everyone else.

No one gives a shit who or what you think you are except you and maybe 4 other people. The other 7+ billion people in the world do not care about you. I really wish people would learn this.
 

Mista

Banned
Anyone can be whatever they want as long as they shut the fuck up about and just be it without having to annoy everyone else.

No one gives a shit who or what you think you are except you and maybe 4 other people. The other 7+ billion people in the world do not care about you. I really wish people would learn this.
Fucking thank you! NOBODY GIVES A SHIT!

giphy.gif
 

ammodotcom

Neo Member
Since we can't decide who or what we're attracted to and it's not a choice, wouldn't it be wrong to assume we're straight or queer or something else?

How do I know that I'm only straight? Possibly I just haven't encountered the other type of being that I'm sexually attracted to. Kind if like agnosticism for perverts.

If you assert that you don't decide who you're attracted to, you concede it is biological determined or have some other mechanism to explain the attraction. If biologically determined, it would have to be coupled with procreation , otherwise the trait that prompted the attraction would be self-terminating.
 

ammodotcom

Neo Member
If you assert that you don't decide who you're attracted to, you concede it is biological determined or have some other mechanism to explain the attraction. If biologically determined, it would have to be coupled with procreation , otherwise the trait that prompted the attraction would be self-terminating.

Obviously there's not a concrete explanation for homosexuality. But based on the 2013 NHIS data [collected in 2013 from 34,557 adults aged 18 and over], 96.6% of adults identified as straight. Whatever the explanation, 3.4% of the population isn't likely to tell you a lot about what prompts attraction.
 

Kev Kev

Member
Anyone can be whatever they want as long as they shut the fuck up about and just be it without having to annoy everyone else.

No one gives a shit who or what you think you are except you and maybe 4 other people. The other 7+ billion people in the world do not care about you. I really wish people would learn this.
fuck yes. this^
 

TheStruggler

Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
you be you, be who or what you want to be, but stop pushing all your shit on me and trying to make me conform to "your" way. Im Muslim and not even in my dreams would I go around and harass people and push Islam onto people. Just stfu and live your life but leave me out of it.
 

Bigrx1

Banned
Your post is confusing since the title says gender yet your whole post is about sexual orientation. Regarding gender I think you can just look down and figure it out unless you have an innie or a massive fucking clit either of those situations could confuse things.

On the orientation front I wouldn't assume anything until you've come into contact with every animal, plant, insect, landscape, etc to witness your own reaction to it. You won't truly know what you are or are not attracted to, like you mentioned, until you find out for yourself so you need to do all that first then you'll know. Like you may sprout a boner of the ages if you find the right bug or cow or something, who knows - so don't assume your orientation until you've gone through all options.
 

Shantae

Banned
Personally I think the whole idea that gender is something you are born with is stupid. Gender is a social construct, and it's a choice whether it's conscious or subconscious. There is not some DNA encoding that says girls are supposed to wear their hair long, or wear make up, wear skirts, etc...or something that says men cut their hair short, and so on...

At one time, men did wear their hair long because long flowing hair was a sign of masculinity, like a lion's mane. Gender identifiers change with the passage of time, and to say that we're born with traits of certain genders is nonsense, since gender identifiers have not been consistent throughout human history to begin with. You're either born with boy parts, or girl parts...that's it. How you choose to express and present yourself is all a fucking choice. A man who starts wearing dresses, and make up, and wants to be called "she" is not a woman...it's a man who wants to be seen with socially constructed feminine identifiers.

I'm okay with all of that, because I'm all for freedom of choice, but this idea that people are born with wanting to identify as the opposite sex is such nonsense to me since the whole idea of what is identifiable as man or woman is all constructed, and influenced by others after birth, and not inherited.
 

haxan7

Volunteered as Tribute
Personally I think the whole idea that gender is something you are born with is stupid. Gender is a social construct, and it's a choice whether it's conscious or subconscious. There is not some DNA encoding that says girls are supposed to wear their hair long, or wear make up, wear skirts, etc...or something that says men cut their hair short, and so on...

At one time, men did wear their hair long because long flowing hair was a sign of masculinity, like a lion's mane. Gender identifiers change with the passage of time, and to say that we're born with traits of certain genders is nonsense, since gender identifiers have not been consistent throughout human history to begin with. You're either born with boy parts, or girl parts...that's it. How you choose to express and present yourself is all a fucking choice. A man who starts wearing dresses, and make up, and wants to be called "she" is not a woman...it's a man who wants to be seen with socially constructed feminine identifiers.

I'm okay with all of that, because I'm all for freedom of choice, but this idea that people are born with wanting to identify as the opposite sex is such nonsense to me since the whole idea of what is identifiable as man or woman is all constructed, and influenced by others after birth, and not inherited.

Gender is a social construct? So if you walk into a daycare with 3-5 year olds, and the boys happen to be shooting and fighting, and the girls happen to be combing their dolls' hair, it's all because of how they're socialized?

Give me a break.
 

Shantae

Banned
Gender is a social construct? So if you walk into a daycare with 3-5 year olds, and the boys happen to be shooting and fighting, and the girls happen to be combing their dolls' hair, it's all because of how they're socialized?

Give me a break.
And you think that kids in the 3-5 year old range have NOT been influenced by their parents, or the media did not influence that behavior? You think a boy would not enjoy combing a doll's hair if that's all they were exposed to, because chances are most girls are interested in that kind of thing because they see other girls doing it, whether it's their mother, or something they see women do on tv, etc.

Hell, when I was a toddler, my parents told me I loved certain girl toys, especially things involving Hello Kitty. I wasn't really exposed to much in the way of what boys SHOULD like, so I kinda just liked whatever.
 
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haxan7

Volunteered as Tribute
And you think that kids in the 3-5 year old range have NOT been influenced by their parents, or the media did not influence that behavior? You think a boy would not enjoy combing a doll's hair if that's all their were exposed to, because chances are most girls are interested in that kind of thing because they see other girls doing it, whether it's their mother, or something they see women do on tv, etc.

Hell, when I was a toddler, my parents told me I loved certain girl toys, especially things involving Hello Kitty. I wasn't really exposed to much in the way of what boys SHOULD like, so I kinda just liked whatever.
Yes, I do think most boys would not be interested in combing a doll's hair, having been a boy myself.

I think you need a reality check.
 

Shantae

Banned
Yes, I do think most boys would not be interested in combing a doll's hair, having been a boy myself.

I think you need a reality check.
And I'm saying you're wrong, because...I was a boy too, and since I wasn't really exposed to other boys much, or what other boys should like...I was mainly just around my mother, I picked up on a lot of things SHE liked doing. I remember they eventually bought me a toy kitchen set because I wanted one so bad...again, because I was emulating my mother. I pretended to wash dishes, and cook meals.
 
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haxan7

Volunteered as Tribute
And I'm saying you're wrong, because...I was a boy too, and since I wasn't really exposed to other boys much, or what other boys should like...I was mainly just around my mother, I picked up on a lot of things SHE liked doing. I remember they eventually bought me a kitchen set because I wanted one so bad...again, because I was emulating my mother.
I'm not trying to argue that kids can't pick up influences or or learn to enjoy things outside of traditional gender roles. It seems what you're saying is those things are wholly social constructs, and I'm trying to point out that there's a real animal, physical reality bred into human beings that make them act certain ways.

If you want to go down the path of believing girls and boys play in different ways because they're taught that and forced into it, more power to you, but we will not come to an agreement. And you also would need a reality check.
 
Personally I think the whole idea that gender is something you are born with is stupid. Gender is a social construct, and it's a choice whether it's conscious or subconscious. There is not some DNA encoding that says girls are supposed to wear their hair long, or wear make up, wear skirts, etc...or something that says men cut their hair short, and so on...

At one time, men did wear their hair long because long flowing hair was a sign of masculinity, like a lion's mane. Gender identifiers change with the passage of time, and to say that we're born with traits of certain genders is nonsense, since gender identifiers have not been consistent throughout human history to begin with. You're either born with boy parts, or girl parts...that's it. How you choose to express and present yourself is all a fucking choice. A man who starts wearing dresses, and make up, and wants to be called "she" is not a woman...it's a man who wants to be seen with socially constructed feminine identifiers.

I'm okay with all of that, because I'm all for freedom of choice, but this idea that people are born with wanting to identify as the opposite sex is such nonsense to me since the whole idea of what is identifiable as man or woman is all constructed, and influenced by others after birth, and not inherited.
You're confusing 'gender' with 'gender expression' and 'cultural norms'.

While you're correct that fasions such as dress codes and hairstyles vary from era to era, let alone countries, there are fundamental behavioral differemces between genders driven by their biological sex that are what cause those gender expression norms to arise in the first place.

Girls prefer brighter colours, are more talkative and empathetic, while also tending to more complicated and often brutally cruel social interactions.

Boys are more active and aggressive and generally prefer mechanical and constructive pass times, and have more simplistic and violent social interactions, but with the benefit of that constant rowdy behavior quicker to defuse and move on from.

This can be demonstrated by simply offering a few days old baby a choice of toys. Put a doll and a truck infront if one, and 99.9 percent of the time the boy will want the thing with moving parts and the girl will want the thing with a face.

This is so universal that it even occurs in other great apes. Put the same toys infront of a Chimpanzee, Gorilla or Banobo, and you get the same results.

In fact this (at least used to be) part of the evidence gathering done to determine whether someone actually was transgender or simply suffering gender dismorphia. It's part of the reason we know that, as rare as it is, being trans is an actual physical condition and not just a mental illness.

So yeah, gender is absolutely real, you great transphobe you!

But seriously, all those things you mentioned as social constructs, they arise out of the fundamental differences and evolving tastes from one generation to the next precisely because genders exist, and drive those gender expressions to be created in the first place. You have the entire thing arse about face, sorry.
 

ROMhack

Member
You're confusing 'gender' with 'gender expression' and 'cultural norms'.

While you're correct that fasions such as dress codes and hairstyles vary from era to era, let alone countries, there are fundamental behavioral differemces between genders driven by their biological sex that are what cause those gender expression norms to arise in the first place.

Girls prefer brighter colours, are more talkative and empathetic, while also tending to more complicated and often brutally cruel social interactions.

Boys are more active and aggressive and generally prefer mechanical and constructive pass times, and have more simplistic and violent social interactions, but with the benefit of that constant rowdy behavior quicker to defuse and move on from.

This can be demonstrated by simply offering a few days old baby a choice of toys. Put a doll and a truck infront if one, and 99.9 percent of the time the boy will want the thing with moving parts and the girl will want the thing with a face.

This is so universal that it even occurs in other great apes. Put the same toys infront of a Chimpanzee, Gorilla or Banobo, and you get the same results.

In fact this (at least used to be) part of the evidence gathering done to determine whether someone actually was transgender or simply suffering gender dismorphia. It's part of the reason we know that, as rare as it is, being trans is an actual physical condition and not just a mental illness.

So yeah, gender is absolutely real, you great transphobe you!

But seriously, all those things you mentioned as social constructs, they arise out of the fundamental differences and evolving tastes from one generation to the next precisely because genders exist, and drive those gender expressions to be created in the first place. You have the entire thing arse about face, sorry.

I'm going to agree but I always thought the difference was 'sex' and 'gender'. The former being innate, with the latter being a quick term for gender expression, and hence cultural.

Am I wrong? I always thought that's the basis of the argument people try to make.
 
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You're confusing 'gender' with 'gender expression' and 'cultural norms'.

While you're correct that fasions such as dress codes and hairstyles vary from era to era, let alone countries, there are fundamental behavioral differemces between genders driven by their biological sex that are what cause those gender expression norms to arise in the first place.

Girls prefer brighter colours, are more talkative and empathetic, while also tending to more complicated and often brutally cruel social interactions.

Boys are more active and aggressive and generally prefer mechanical and constructive pass times, and have more simplistic and violent social interactions, but with the benefit of that constant rowdy behavior quicker to defuse and move on from.

This can be demonstrated by simply offering a few days old baby a choice of toys. Put a doll and a truck infront if one, and 99.9 percent of the time the boy will want the thing with moving parts and the girl will want the thing with a face.

This is so universal that it even occurs in other great apes. Put the same toys infront of a Chimpanzee, Gorilla or Banobo, and you get the same results.

In fact this (at least used to be) part of the evidence gathering done to determine whether someone actually was transgender or simply suffering gender dismorphia. It's part of the reason we know that, as rare as it is, being trans is an actual physical condition and not just a mental illness.

So yeah, gender is absolutely real, you great transphobe you!

But seriously, all those things you mentioned as social constructs, they arise out of the fundamental differences and evolving tastes from one generation to the next precisely because genders exist, and drive those gender expressions to be created in the first place. You have the entire thing arse about face, sorry.
I should also add that this is of course bimodal
I'm going to agree but I always thought the difference was 'sex' and 'gender'. The former being innate, with the latter being a quick term for gender expression, and hence cultural.

Am I wrong? I always thought that's the basis of the argument people try to make.
Well the entire idea that sex and gender are seperate is only a relatively recent development, born out of the false conclusions presented from the horrific experiment conducted on David Reimer, a boy 'turned into' and raised as a girl from infancy after a botched circumcision.

The fact he quickly rejected being a girl and had an enormously troubled life even after detransitioning, ending in suicide, was all completely ignored by the psychologist responsible who presented it as a complete success and proof that gender is entirely a social construct.

But gender and sex being seperate does make sense, as it provides an easy diferrentiator between behavior and biology. It's just that certain political extremeists and nutjobs like to use the 0.1% that have a clash to disprove the 99.9% for whom sex and gender are directly linked.
 

Papa

Banned
And you think that kids in the 3-5 year old range have NOT been influenced by their parents, or the media did not influence that behavior? You think a boy would not enjoy combing a doll's hair if that's all they were exposed to, because chances are most girls are interested in that kind of thing because they see other girls doing it, whether it's their mother, or something they see women do on tv, etc.

Hell, when I was a toddler, my parents told me I loved certain girl toys, especially things involving Hello Kitty. I wasn't really exposed to much in the way of what boys SHOULD like, so I kinda just liked whatever.

It seems to me that you’re attempting to deconstruct something without first questioning why it exists. Surely that should be the first step, especially for something that is common to every successful culture across borders, languages and religions.
 

Papa

Banned
And I'm saying you're wrong, because...I was a boy too, and since I wasn't really exposed to other boys much, or what other boys should like...I was mainly just around my mother, I picked up on a lot of things SHE liked doing. I remember they eventually bought me a toy kitchen set because I wanted one so bad...again, because I was emulating my mother. I pretended to wash dishes, and cook meals.

Every time
 

Barnabot

Member
it's ok to assume your own gender and no, gender is not a social construct . you don't choose to be either boy or a girl when you're born . that applies to anything else when you're born. so you'll have to own that sometime in your lifetime.
 

Airola

Member
The biggest problem is that even if gender and sex were different things and even if gender was purely a social construct, people are trying to push that view of gender into things that are defined by sex.

If sex is different from gender and if gender is just a social construct, why on earth would you want to have public toilets be used based on gender and not sex, or to have people compete in sports based on gender and not sex?

The jump from "girls can like playing with toy cars too" to "boys can have periods and become pregnant" is insane. It shows that these people don't really think sex and gender are different things or that gender is just a social construct but they actively want to change the definition of sex.
 

ROMhack

Member
The biggest problem is that even if gender and sex were different things and even if gender was purely a social construct, people are trying to push that view of gender into things that are defined by sex.

If sex is different from gender and if gender is just a social construct, why on earth would you want to have public toilets be used based on gender and not sex, or to have people compete in sports based on gender and not sex?

The jump from "girls can like playing with toy cars too" to "boys can have periods and become pregnant" is insane. It shows that these people don't really think sex and gender are different things or that gender is just a social construct but they actively want to change the definition of sex.

You clearly haven't been to a gay bar. It's the wild west when it comes to the bathroom.
 
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ROMhack

Member
Well the entire idea that sex and gender are seperate is only a relatively recent development, born out of the false conclusions presented from the horrific experiment conducted on David Reimer, a boy 'turned into' and raised as a girl from infancy after a botched circumcision.

The fact he quickly rejected being a girl and had an enormously troubled life even after detransitioning, ending in suicide, was all completely ignored by the psychologist responsible who presented it as a complete success and proof that gender is entirely a social construct.

But gender and sex being seperate does make sense, as it provides an easy diferrentiator between behavior and biology. It's just that certain political extremeists and nutjobs like to use the 0.1% that have a clash to disprove the 99.9% for whom sex and gender are directly linked.

Hmm interesting. I did some digging and it seems that even social-focused psychologists believe there's a give and take when it comes to what defines gender, neither entirely biological nor social. One referenced that particular study as flawed and sad. They held out to the idea that the psychologist in question pushed femininity too hard on the boy. Without going as far to admit it, they seemed to imply it's a strong warning sign that gender traits should not be forced at such a tender age. My knowledge on this subject is too weak to offer further perspective but it feels relevant to consider in this day and age; let gender flow naturally and then consider what to do.

You ever take a shit in one? Get cum on ya bum?

I wouldn't dare. What if I caught the gay?!!!?!?!

Real talk though, I met my first proper girlfriend at a gay bar. It's a crazy world out there.
 
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