lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
for games that runs at 30fps cinematic
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Is haze the new bloom?
- Thread starter nkarafo
- Start date
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It adds volumetric depth to the area
Guilty_AI
Member
It definitely looks fantastic, it'll also give you headaches while quickly darting your eyes through the screen and moving the camera around.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Metroid Prime Remastered shots in the OP look great to me and I like that effect. It's like anything, if used in moderation and tastefully it can enhance atmosphere and sell a space.
This kind of thing is like the reverb argument in music production.
This kind of thing is like the reverb argument in music production.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It greatly helps to either the image to remove banding on color gradients. Resident evil 2 looks like trash if you turn it off. But in village it’s very bad and broken with it on. It is important.
Motion blur is great too. Normally 30 or 60 fps movie each frame should contain 16 to 33 ms of movement information. Not still image. With only 60 fps you need captures of movement. Not perfect stills. Brain does not create motion blur from tv
nkarafo
Member
no, it just adds haze.
GymWolf
Member
I just like to have a pristine iq all the time without distortion of any kind.
nkarafo
Member
That's dithering, not film grain.
Film grain is a completely different effect.
Just no.
LCDs and modern panels already add blur because of their shitty technology compared to CRTs. You don't need more vomit inducing blur on top of that.
The crystal clear CRT motion is heaven compared to any of that.
Per object motion blur is nice though.
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LordOfChaos
Member
I thought Haze was the new Halo
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TheDreadLord
Gold Member
When it comes to the switch, I guess this is more a technique to hide the low res assets and crazy aliasing.
Beer Baelly
Al Pachinko, Konami President
There is only one bad use of haze and that's a PStriple exclusive.
JimboJones
Member
I kinda like the Haze, it's pretty subtle, isn't distracting and actually looks "right". Every scene shouldn't look ultra vibrant.
Magic Carpet
Member
The dirty dishwater effect.
Breath of the Wild always looked like I was playing in a giant sink filled with dirty dish water.
Breath of the Wild always looked like I was playing in a giant sink filled with dirty dish water.
Fbh
Member
Yeah I hate this stuff and it's in so many games.
Like 1 out of 3 games makes me go double check if the HDMI black levels are set right because the haze gives them that washed out low contrast look of mismatched black level settings.
I wish devs would give use a toggle for it as some of them do for film grain or chromatic aberration (though I don't know if it's that easy)
Like 1 out of 3 games makes me go double check if the HDMI black levels are set right because the haze gives them that washed out low contrast look of mismatched black level settings.
I wish devs would give use a toggle for it as some of them do for film grain or chromatic aberration (though I don't know if it's that easy)
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
FIlm grain is dithering if done well. Same thing
There is no "just no".
I am not opinionated here. This is how it works. These are facts.
It's not blur. It's "motion captured in time".
Try to understand what I am saying. You say you like per object motion blur - we are talking about the same thing here.
60fps is 1 frame each 16ms. Your brain can tell that and does not add motion blur.
So each frame ideally, when paused like in the movie, should show motion that happened in that 16ms. Then You have collection of these motio shots and you get nice results.
Not talking about gta 3 blur here lol.
Look at that and see how weird and jerky 1/500 shutter speed looks.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
I missed the crazy-ass bloom from Demon's Souls remake.
Braag
Member
It's fog, if used correctly it can give scenes more depth and make them look more realistic as you demonstrated in your pics. The above pics from the original look like ass compared to the remaster.
Film grain can hide some imperfections. When a game looks too clean it's easier to spot when it doesn't look realistic. A lot of movies use film grain as well and A LOT of older movies which were then released on Bluray had film grain added to them to hide some of the "this wasn't originally shot with HD camera" look.
Some games like RE Village have overbearing film grain though, which can ruin the image quality completely and with no way to set the intensity, I prefer to keep it off then.
Film grain can hide some imperfections. When a game looks too clean it's easier to spot when it doesn't look realistic. A lot of movies use film grain as well and A LOT of older movies which were then released on Bluray had film grain added to them to hide some of the "this wasn't originally shot with HD camera" look.
Some games like RE Village have overbearing film grain though, which can ruin the image quality completely and with no way to set the intensity, I prefer to keep it off then.
nkarafo
Member
Film grain is film grain. Dithering is dithering. Completely different things doing completely different jobs.
Film Grain is a visual effect that tries to simulate old film screen artifacts and bad analog signal. The film grain in Silent Hill 2 is just that. Film grain is also animated.
Dithering is a technique used to help blend limited color palettes to avoid banding. It's also used to fake transparencies. Dithering is not animated like film grain is.
I just don't like full motion blur. I prefer a sharp image on my screen at all times. And sure, maybe at 15fps motion blur does help filling the gaps. But at 30fps or higher, i prefer a clear screen. Go play an older game at 30fps on a CRT, it's much better than motion blur in modern games.
Knightime_X
Member
Nope, looks badass to me.
We finally reached a point where real life occurrences are bad now.
First we wanted realistic effects, now we (some) want to remove them?
We finally reached a point where real life occurrences are bad now.
First we wanted realistic effects, now we (some) want to remove them?
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MrTroubleMaker
Member
yes 480p
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StueyDuck
Member
I understand the OPs view
But their example was pretty poor, like of course a dusty sand planet will have a hazy atmosphere
Kuranghi
Member
Often devs use it to make up for the lack of dithering in gradients in the skybox or like in the RE2 remake its essential to have shadowed areas look correct, because otherwise they have horrendous banding/posterisation problems. Look how fucked RE2 remake looks without it:
I'm pretty sure its possible for the dithering to be part of the graphics pipeline and not have to rely on a post-processing effect like this. They seem to have solved the issue from RE8 onwards though so no worries.
Kuranghi
Member
nkarafo
I understand the difference between dithering and film grain, like you explained, but what do you think is going on with RE2 Remake? Is that just the film grain acting as a makeshift dithering or do you think something else is changing internally when you turn Film Grain on? It does seem bizarre that the image quality would rely on it so much.
KXVXII9X
Member
I just started to hate it in some games recently. It is a combination of a ton of effects all at once and adds to visual clutter. I think the Metroid Prime Remastered version looks great though. It was when I played Octopath Traveler 2 Demo and Sea of Stars Demo back-to-back, and Sea of Stars looked much more stunning and vivid. Everything was clear and sharp and didn't look all washed out and blurry unlike OT 2. I do prefer sharper image quality which is why I like the more cel-shaded art designs. Games could also bring up the contrast a little as well.Modern games are filled with annoying visual effects (my most hated one being the camera auto-exposure simulation). Motion blur, noise filters, chromatic aberration, vignette, the list goes on.
But there is one that nobody ever talks about. And it's pretty common in Switch games for some reason, such as Mario Kart and Metroid Prime Remastered. I think it's called "haze". Here's an example:
Look how much more hazy/foggy/washed out Metroid Prime Remastered is compared to the original above. It's like you are looking through a camera lens that has a moisture stain or something. The original looks so much more cleaner, despite the lower resolution.
Here's another:
It's not as bad here, but you can still see the hazy look and lack of contrast, even when there is no super bright light like in the first example.
I'm getting the same vibe when i compare something like Mario Kart Double Dash and Mario Kart 8. While the later looks amazing, there are a few tracks that do have tis hazy/washed out look (let's not even talk about Mario Kart Wii and the bloom craze of the mid 2000's. Glad that's over).
I'm not sure why devs choose this. I get it might be an artistic choice but is it really for the better? Is it more realistic? Or is it another cheap camera simulation effect™ like the others i mentioned? Because devs nowadays sure as hell like to make games look like you are looking at them through a cheap camera lens.
Great remaster btw, looks great. But the original looks better in some ways and it really shouldn't.
GymWolf
Member
They both looks bad for different reasons tbh.Often devs use it to make up for the lack of dithering in gradients in the skybox or like in the RE2 remake its essential to have shadowed areas look correct, because otherwise they have horrendous banding/posterisation problems. Look how fucked RE2 remake looks without it:
I'm pretty sure its possible for the dithering to be part of the graphics pipeline and not have to rely on a post-processing effect like this. They seem to have solved the issue from RE8 onwards though so no worries.
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nkarafo
Member
Not sure, i have film grain off and the game looks fine. I don't get all that banding, however, i do use a better contrast option and not really following the washed out look the game recommends.
I understand the difference between dithering and film grain, like you explained, but what do you think is going on with RE2 Remake? Is that just the film grain acting as a makeshift dithering or do you think something else is changing internally when you turn Film Grain on? It does seem bizarre that the image quality would rely on it so much.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Am I supposed to hate bottom picture? Bottom picture looks much more natural.
Just like everything else, if it’s done well it can add to the visuals.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
By Blur do you mean Motion Blur, or does Depth of Field also fall into that category?
<---Loves motion blur, outside of simulators if your racing game doesnt have it, you lose 10 points immediately.
<---Also loves Depth of field and will inject it if a game doesnt have it.
Imtjnotu
Member
i wish Horizon let you turn it off
GymWolf
Member
I hate both, motion blur more than dof.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Exactly the point I was making.Often devs use it to make up for the lack of dithering in gradients in the skybox or like in the RE2 remake its essential to have shadowed areas look correct, because otherwise they have horrendous banding/posterisation problems. Look how fucked RE2 remake looks without it:
I'm pretty sure its possible for the dithering to be part of the graphics pipeline and not have to rely on a post-processing effect like this. They seem to have solved the issue from RE8 onwards though so no worries.
Fine film grain will go as good dithering to help with banding.
I think they fixed that in Rt patch since disabling film grain did not made the game posterize as much
Kuranghi
Member
Yeah I agree, both are shite.
Kuranghi
Member
RT patch forces DX12 renderer so maybe its fixed in that compared to DX11