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[Walter Matthau]

I think the reason why people associate incels with a specific political leaning is because similar to "nazi", people just throw the word around on social media toward anyone they dislike or disagree with. Elon Musk gets called an incel all the time even though he officially has like a dozen kids with multiple women.

About women wanting good looking men with money... that's not really anything new. Pretty sure the idea of Prince Charming dates back a few centuries. These dudes complaining need to get off the apps, build some good habits and a small real life social circle, and finding the right woman will work out naturally.

 

[jason10mm]

That's a narrow view of mental health, and also ignores the fact that macro-level shifts and trends always have institutional causes.

Like, if unemployment is high, you can give a person advice on how to get a job or brush up their resume and that advice might be good and it might even work for that guy but it isn't really the reason that unemployment is high and won't help the overall problem.

Likewise it's obvious that many incels could be a lot better off with an attitude adjustment and some coaching, if they learned how to talk to women like people, wash of the stink of desperation... But it ignores the issue of why more and more men are falling behind in the first place.

Oh, I think this is VERY obvious. Social media and the collapse of traditional social community outlets like church. These guys can sit in a room and get EVERY interpersonal interaction piped in through the internet. It isn't healthy AT ALL and leaves them vulnerable to influences and hinders development of proper social cues.

There have always been the "odd duck loner" types, but many others were supported by larger family or community networks because you just couldn't exist completely alone and still get farm or factory work done alone.

But now you can telework and order in and never see a human in the flesh for weeks.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Oh, I think this is VERY obvious. Social media and the collapse of traditional social community outlets like church. These guys can sit in a room and get EVERY interpersonal interaction piped in through the internet. It isn't healthy AT ALL and leaves them vulnerable to influences and hinders development of proper social cues.

There have always been the "odd duck loner" types, but many others were supported by larger family or community networks because you just couldn't exist completely alone and still get farm or factory work done alone.

But now you can telework and order in and never see a human in the flesh for weeks.

So true.

You even see this with the young generation whose mentality can be odd because they stare at their phone all day including dinner time. Have fun trying to get my nieces and nephews out of the house like when a lot of us were younger. They'd rather stay home and play online games or text. Thats their kind of interaction --> digital based. If my siblings and siblings-in-law (if thats even a term) asked them to go bike ride to the mall and watch a movie or play street hockey with a tennis ball with friends good luck with that. Or just hang out with friends at their house. Looks like nada from what I've seen. Most kids now probably dont even own a hockey stick. And have fun trying to find a kid on the block with a net and big brother's goalie pads.

I think the interest is there since the kids will do all this shit with parents or when I'm around. But people need to give kids a kick in the ass to go do it with school friends.

The internet can help people who are having issues.... hell you got endless articles to read, forums, chat with an agent kind of shit. even just knowing you can google nearby clinics is way easier than thumbing through a Yellow Pages like it's 1995. But in return, the net can be a black hole of bad advice and people being miserable together where they'd rather be with similar people than get medical help.

 

[Hugare]

Sex workers are exactly what they don't need. That will push them even further down the rapidhole because that's exactly what they think about woman, nothing more then sex objects.

Back in the day we had conscription for the army, and this resulted in mixing people with other people and spend time with them. It was great to kill barriers created between rich / poor / racist / not racist / political andy's. Because they all where forced to work together u suddently realized that your buddy in the army u spend 2 years with and is black actually isn't that bad of a guy. Or your right leaning voter u though was a nazi was actually not that bad of a guy.

The same shit should happen for incels, instead with incels let them go into therapy, let the therapist move them into somekind of charity thing they have to attend towards that is dominated by woman, and let them have to work with them, eat with them, share there life with them etc. And sooner rather then later they will realize they are no longer part of that incel club because they are just deranged with the reality.

It also kills there isolation and they can make friends or even relationships out of it.

I found a movie with this concept really good, that was called american history X. this main character absolute hates black people, grows up in a culture where they all hate them, wars them and gets into jail as a result. And guess what happens? his best buddy became a black guy because he's forced to spend time with him. He returns to his nut neightbourhood and realizes how fucked in the head they are.

The problem with incels is that they probably never encounter woman or even talk to them in there lives. They create this bubble of delusional bullshit that pushes them further in the shitter every day, mix politics with that shit and it gets even worse.

What needs to happen is mix those clowns into actually woman groups so they start to get the idea of what woman really are and have them communicate with them. While also do more outside physical sports.

I think therapists are failing with incels because just talking to them isn't going to do shit.

Your army example is great, and I always think about it

In my country (Brazil) there was a war between Brazil and Paraguay in 1864, 24 years before the slavery abolition in 88

It was very important for the abolition later on 'cause it united people from different backgrounds, colors and cultures, giving the abolition a huge push

And what you said about incels making bubbles, that's an internet problem. And I dont see it going anywhere as long as the internet lives.

Back then people were obligated to leave their houses and face other people in order to be a part of society. Talking to other people, experiencing other realities.

Today with the internet, you can build your own bubble on Discord (or an internet forum) and just socialize with people who have a mindset that is just like your own

That's why people are so fragile nowdays.

And that's why despite loving the internet (I'm no hypocrite), I reckon this shit was the pandora box for weak minded individuals

 

[SF Kosmo]

Oh, I think this is VERY obvious. Social media and the collapse of traditional social community outlets like church.

Church attendance is positively correlated with celibacy so I don't think that's a very good explanation. Church people are also more likely to home school.

I think it's less about a lack of interaction as it is how people interact. Kids used to spend more time talking on the phone and hanging out in person and now they text and game online and such.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Duh. Look at resetera.

 

[winjer]

It's not just that people are more intertwined with a digital world.
Covid had the effect of isolating people even further. And a lot of people got so used to it, they find it harder to interact with other people.
But it's also the automation of our societies. For example, when i was a kid, if I wanted to buy something I had to go to a store, talk to people, even if it was just the cashier. So this required the base minimum of interaction and social skills.
Today, it's possible to go to a supermarket, pick what we need, go through a self checkout and not talk or interact with anyone.

 

[SF Kosmo]

There's also some broader cultural factors at work. I think cultural expectations of men have shifted faster than men can keep up, and other realities have shifted faster than the culture can keep up. We've rejected some of the more problematic concepts of traditional masculinity but we haven't really replaced that with modern masculine archetypes. And there's an ever larger cultural and political divide between men and women.

This is resulting in incels in men, but also a loneliness epidemic in women, who tend to be either volcel or stuck on the dating treadmill.

 

[Toons]

LOLBruh, the prevalence and normalization of dating apps are 1000% the primary driver of inceldom. Don't look up the objective metrics on how 90% of guys perform on them. There's no easy fix or cure cause many of their core greivances are actually real, not halucinated conspiracies.

Many of them are also either highly anecdotal, or based on half truths or cherry picked realities, and the incel themselves isn't willing to work around those problems but instead languish underneath their existence. Thats what makes one an incel, not simply perceiving some issues with some women.

If you observe what any of them want in a woman it always nonsensical, unrealistic, if not outright egomsniacal and inhumane. They thus create the problem they themselves propagate and fulfill for themselves.

 

[Reallink]

Many of them are also either highly anecdotal, or based on half truths or cherry picked realities, and the incel themselves isn't willing to work around those problems but instead languish underneath their existence. Thats what makes one an incel, not simply perceiving some issues with some women.

If you observe what any of them want in a woman it always nonsensical, unrealistic, if not outright egomsniacal and inhumane. They thus create the problem they themselves propagate and fulfill for themselves.

University research studies and first hand metrics released by the apps themselves are not "anecdotal" my guy. I'm admittedly not well versed in the minutiae of inceldom teachings, but my high level understanding is they primarily bemoan women (in aggregate) only "swiping right"/finding attractive the top 10% of guys, and (in regards to long term relationships/potential marriage partners) have a very strong aversion to women with high body counts. Which are very obviously behaviors that have been greatly exacerbated and facilitated by the ubiquity of dating apps.

 

[Toons]

University research studies and first hand metrics released by the apps themselves are not "anecdotal" my guy.

Since whenare universities credible on this?

As for app usage, like much statistics, they only show a part of the picture. Not the whole.

I'm admittedly not well versed in the minutiae of inceldom teachings, but my high level understanding is they primarily bemoan women (in aggregate) only "swiping right"/finding attractive the top 10% of guys, and (in regards to long term relationships/potential marriage partners) have a very strong aversion to women with high body counts. Which are very obviously behaviors that have been greatly exacerbated and facilitated by the ubiquity of dating apps.

Dating apps are run by algorithms designed to increase user engagement, so even then its anecdotal. Where's a reason that dating in real life tends to play out very differently. Dating apps removed or reduced a lot of the major factors like distance, cultural difference etc but they don't remove how those things play into one's preferences.

Incels have aversion to any women with a body count that isnt 0, and they also have an aversion to men with a body count. At the core is that the women aren't sleeping with THEM, and the men are "taking away" the women from THEM. Its a defeatist attitude, a self loathing one with no desire to improve oneself to change ones chances.

Its a wirrd thing where they think the natural order is that SOME woman SHOULD find them attractive, and so taking action to be more attractive to women is subverting that nature, and that in a vacuum those things wouldnt factor in. I've seen incels absolutely trash individuals in their community who even attempt to appeal to women, to reach out, etc.

Its ultimately a lot more about me than health than it is about actual sex or relationships. Some of these folks have women in their lives, sisters and mothers and still feel this way. Its wierd.

That being said it doesn't take long to figure out why women don't find these incels particularly attractive, their attitude is often abrasive, they usually have deeply underdeveloped social skills and the ideological stuff makes it even worse and incorrigible.

 

[belmarduk]

University research studies and first hand metrics released by the apps themselves are not "anecdotal" my guy. I'm admittedly not well versed in the minutiae of inceldom teachings, but my high level understanding is they primarily bemoan women (in aggregate) only "swiping right"/finding attractive the top 10% of guys, and (in regards to long term relationships/potential marriage partners) have a very strong aversion to women with high body counts. Which are very obviously behaviors that have been greatly exacerbated and facilitated by the ubiquity of dating apps.

That’s so ridiculous… these incels would have high body counts if they could.. but they can’t… because they’re incels.

 

[deoxxys]

Man gamefaqs users would hate this topic discussion

 

[Torrent of Pork]

All the old pejoratives don't mean shit no more, all it means is, "I disagree with you." Some asshole calling me a racist doesn't even come close to making me give a shit, sorry sweetheart, you're going to have to validate your claims.

 

[Scotty W]

People who value their life and dignity should avoid all mental health professionals.

People who can’t get laid should not call themselves incels. You brand yourself with your own shame. Reject your slave branding. It is not a technical designation, it is an identity category designed to enflame your feelings of self pity.

 

[thefool]

Creating an army of young sexually frustrated men is obviously a ticking time bomb.
That this issue was politicized as some right wing propaganda will be looked back as a disaster in years to come.

 

[deoxxys]

People who value their life and dignity should avoid all mental health professionals.

People who can’t get laid should not call themselves incels. You brand yourself with your own shame. Reject your slave branding. It is not a technical designation, it is an identity category designed to enflame your feelings of self pity.

I think more people call others incels then people who claim the label

 

[nush]

I think more people call others incels then people who claim the label

It's basically calling people a turbo virgin at this point.