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[muu]

How dare these kids take advantage of credit card offers and exploit bonuses while responsibly paying for them! And how dare they keep so many cards active as credit scores skew positively towards keeping a large number of semi-active accounts to improve your credit age!

Chase's 5/24 rule (5 cc per 24mo period) kinda screws with Manufactured Spend methods central to a lot of churning, however it makes complete sense to rotate around new cards with a variety of benefits. I'm working on my southwest cards for a companion pass, which would basically be a buy 1 ticket, get 1 free offer thru southwest.

I started on this about 7 years ago. Up to then all I had was a single Amex card, lots of money I left on the table for that.

If I could spare the time to do the research, I'd definitely do this. I rock two credit cards, and the only impact they've ever had is to give me free money every month. Churners are both more wise and more savvy than the rest of us.

All it takes is knowing to set things to autopay and keep 2-3k in your bank to make sure payments don't bounce. It really is minimal effort for decent return, and the only real barrier is people thinking it must be Monterey black magic because "finances are so hard."

 

[andythinkpad]

I checked my spreadsheet just for this thread. Between me and my wife, we have 22-23 credit cards.

This year we open 4 new cc and 2 new checking accounts. So far we have gotten 1000 sign up bonus. Still working on the Spark business card ($500 for 4500 spent, need to pay tax with it to get it over 4500.)

The signup bonuses are basically free money if you manage them like a side business.

We are not millenial.

 

[Hindl]

I have family friends who do this. Now granted they're extremely rich, so if the bottom fell out they'd be able to handle it. But they're telling me they constantly open and close cards and haven't paid a cent for traveling in forever

 

[Kickz]

I have 2 only

 

[hobblygobbly]

I only have one credit card and one debit card. Then again I am German and majority of people don't have a credit card so it's not unusual.

I use my debit card for every day stuff, not my credit card. It works everywhere a credit card does and the same, except it obviously takes money off, not credit.

I like to live within my means and use the money I have and that's what a debit card allows.

 

[SoldierOfLight]

I guess that counts me out since I got my first card at 30

 

[Syriel]

Good post. Very true.. I think a lot of the people with these multiple credit cards are actually embroiled in a debt spiral. Very few people are gaming the system for rewards... the system is gaming them. That's why these offering these cards are profitable for the banks at all.

More power and respect to those winning from the system rather than getting trapped.

I've got one with a pretty high balance for the balance and I'm looking to get another that's got some good rewards. I always pay mine off in time, not to hijack this thread, but since I'm a millennial and I need more credit cards, do any of you have any recommendations?

You should join the Credit Card |OT| here on GAF. Lots of good info about different cards and easy ways to profit from the game.

Shrug. I have 5 and they give me a ton of free money. Never paid interest and my credit is good

I made a thread a few months back about having "too many" credit cards. General consensus is as long as you can keep track of them go nuts

Yep. No downside to having multiple cards. Just put the ones you don't use in a drawer.

If you don't have self-control, then don't jump in, but otherwise go to town.

I'm 28, have two cards, and have excellent credit. Am I a millennial?

28 years old. Born in 1988 or 1989? Yeah, you're smack in the center of the Millennial generation.

Newsflash if you are spending over $1000 in annual fees your vacation isn't free. Also not American so don't understand your credit score bullshit. You do you USA rofl.

Newsflash. If you are spending $$$ you don't need to, you're an idiot. But that's not what CC churners and rewards users are doing.

The number one rule is to have the credit cards pay you. Not the other way around. You only pay an annual fee if you're getting more in services than you're paying in fees.

For example, if someone gets an airline card that offers free baggage and it has a $99 annual fee, that card pays for itself after a single trip for a couple with two checked bags ($25/bag fee each way). After the second trip, it's saving money.

If you never travel, that's not a good deal. If you travel to visit family (or on vacation) once or twice a year, the card is saving you money because you would have otherwise paid those fees.

The vast majority of credit cards in the US have no annual fees. You really only see fees on higher end cards and those targeting people with super bad credit.

The american way of handling credit seems crazy to me as a Swede. I will probably never use a credit card, debit is where it's at.

Debit costs more than using credit, offers less protection, and fewer benefits. There is zero reason (outside of bank incentive bonuses) to use a debit card in the US.

I have family friends who do this. Now granted they're extremely rich, so if the bottom fell out they'd be able to handle it. But they're telling me they constantly open and close cards and haven't paid a cent for traveling in forever

You don't have to be rich to benefit from credit card benefits. You just have to play to the system.

For example, I have a credit card that is setup to autopay one single bill every month. That's all that card is used for.

The bank pays me $100/year just to use that card every month. That's not in points or some limited rewards programs. It's a straight credit on the card.

 

[Indelible]

I have 3 and I thought that was to many, 29 is pure insanity.

 

[D23]

Have Capitol one and Chase Sapphire...that's about it.

 

[Leeness]

I have one card that I use, and one for my line of credit. Bye. 29 is insane.

 

[Lamel]

I only have 1 debit card ;_;

 

[Hispanic! At the Disco]

I have 1 card with a $800 limit and alright credit. I was able to buy a car with zero down on the spot so I guess its not too bad lol

More than 1 sounds crazy lol

 

[Koppai]

I have 15k in debt...not a game to play unless you paying that shit off as soon as you spend it.

 

[StoneFox]

I have a single credit card and a high credit score, I don't really see the point of having more.

The idea of having more than 3 or so is kinda crazy to me.

 

[cubicle47b]

I use 3 different cards based on the rewards (and initial offer). I didn't know you could pay off your credit card with gift cards.

 

[dc3k]

I have 15k in debt...not a game to play unless you paying that shit off as soon as you spend it.

pay off the debt with the credit card

 

[FactoryofLies]

I've got over 30 cards and have accumulated over 2 million points (worth around over 20k in travel). I've been to over a dozen countries across three continents in the past 8 months alone, traveling in business class and staying at high end hotels all for free. I never carry a balance, don't spend over my means, and have a credit score near 800. It's a game that is quite easy to exploit (legally). People say that there is no such thing as a free lunch, but AMEX literally paid for my lunch yesterday (via cash back bonuses).

It's nice to make money off these asshole banks instead of the other way around for once!

A fellow churner! There are so many people misinformed on how your credit score works and are afraid of getting too many credit cards. I was the same was until last year. I saw the light and won't be paying for any flights or hotels for years to come.

Between my wife and I, we have amassed 1 million Chase Ultimate Rewards, 150k United miles, 200k Marriott Points, 50k Southwest miles, 75k SPG points, 50k Amex points, and 80k IHG points. My wife and I have signed up for 18 cards combined in the past 10 months. Our credit scores have barely changed. Mine slightly went down from high 700s and hers went up from the low 700s. We will be flying to Barcelona in May for free, Hawaii in August for free, business class to Tokyo for free in Feb and then Thailand as well. All hotels in Hawaii, Tokyo, and Thailand will be free or very heavily discounted. The cash price for all those flights and hotels is over $20,000. And I will still have hundreds of thousand points left over while still earning more without even signing up for more cards.

We have a decent combined income of 150k but I am a frugal person who doesn't buy what I don't need and have paid my credit card in full every single month. I also buy gift cards to meet the signup bonus and transfer the gift cards into my bank account.

 

[n0razi]

I have 2.... one for business and one for personal... the personal one I have had for over15 years now and they keep upping my limit on it every year and now its close to 40k

 

[SS4Gogita]

So what's the barrier to doing this? Literally nothing but having a few grand in the bank to start with? I have 6 cards right now, and depending on where I look my score is anywhere from 734 to 754. I think my main concern with doing something like this is the fact that my average age of credit is something like 4 and a half years and would be shot if I started churning. Is this something I might need to wait a couple more years for before I can do?

 

[hockeypuck]

Between my wife and I, we have amassed 1 million Chase Ultimate Rewards, 150k United miles, 200k Marriott Points, 50k Southwest miles, 75k SPG points, 50k Amex points, and 80k IHG points.

What proportion of those points are from your spending, including gift cards?

 

[smurfx]

got 3 myself and don't plan on getting more.

 

[andythinkpad]

I use 3 different cards based on the rewards (and initial offer). I didn't know you could pay off your credit card with gift cards.

Really? Which bank let you do that?

 

[Kurt Angle]

i have one for each category of spending. why would i turn down a 5% discount

Things i get 5% off -
Cell phone bill
Cable/internet bill
Gas
Grocery (3% now, the 5% card lowered)
Amazon
Apple store
Jcrew
Restaurants (3% now)

rules- 1. Pick ones with no annual fees 2. pay off reward cards at the end of the month because they carry heavy APR

 

[Sai-kun]

I've got one card, and good credit

 

[Shaanyboi]

I'm 27. I have one. And have had only one for about eight years.

How the fuck do you end up with 29?

 

[Spiritwalker]

I'm 27 and I've never had a credit card. 29 cards sounds.. insane.

 

[WormBoi]

I went through a phase in which I signed up fro all offers I got.

In the end it was a real pain keeping up with all the different log ins and pay dates.

I would say the most useful credit card I ever had and still have, is my FireStone store credit card. It's handy being able to put all those oil changes, tire purchases, and general maintenance on a charge account.

 

[cubicle47b]

Really? Which bank let you do that?

I haven't done it. I was trying to make sense of part of the article.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

27, have one credit card. Nothing fancy

I've never paid a cent of interest

 

[Husker86]

I've got two credit cards and they're both from credit unions. Although the Amazon rewards card has definitely been tempting.

I just don't understand the need for more than one or two - I don't like having that much debt weighing over me.

Available credit does not equal debt.

Different cards have different rewards.

There's the answer to everyone asking why you need more than 1-2. It's not a difficult concept.

 

[Zantetsuken]

I'm good with my one CC from Navy Federal.

 

[Korey]

It's called churning and there is a whole subreddit dedicated to it. Basically you open up a credit card with a hefty bonus (ex. the chase sapphire preferred offers 50k points after 4k spend-enough for a round trip ticket to europe in economy). You meet the spend (which is easy to meet creatively-you can basically pay yourself in a round a bout way), get the points, then cancel the card before the annual fee hits. Then rinse and repeat. Do extensive research first, keep organized and its easy to come out ahead. Just make sure to pay off your balance in full every month, if you don't do this the bank wins.

How exactly does manufactured spending work?

What are some common ways of spending credit cards without actually spending it?

 

[Dremorak]

I've never understood the whole credit rating thing that the US does, but it sounds pretty shitty. Have no credit card and no reason to.

 

[LincolnSixEcho]

I've maintained two for a long time. Used to have three. Not a millennial. Excellent credit. I don't even know what I would do with lots of credit cards.

 

[Rentahamster]

Lots of people don't understand how good debt and credit works, or they are irresponsible with it. In the right hands, it is very powerful.

 

[Stinkles]

I have one, plus a corporate one. And if I could somehow make my ATM card and my credit card be a single card, I could get rid of that. Still haven't heard a good explanation from my bank about why I need both.


Oh wait, I also have one for my health insurance expenses. Which I seldom if ever use.

 

[Kyougar]

German here
I don't get Credit cards. The whole concept always sounded insane for me.

- you have to pay a fee for using it
- you have to balance the whole thing (either paying upfront where you dont have the cash available for something that doesnt take cc's or you have to pay after the month where you could come into a situation where you dont have enough money to pay the balance)
- the nonexistent security measures are insane, you just need the cc number or the card itself to rob someone
- you can overspend

I have a bank account with an electronic cash card since I was 16. It has access to my whole account and I can cash out money and pay with it everywhere. Security is ok, you need the PIN to take money out or pay with it. The places who only need a signature are liable for damages if the EC card is stolen. There is a max amount of money you can take out per day.

And for online buying I have paypal.

If you need to pay something bigger you just take a loan from the bank or from the shop you are buying something. The debt rates of CC's are little less than loansharks.


btw the whole account and banking system in the US is strange, why do you guys even have/use checks? Why do you have to go to the bank to pay your weekly/monthly expenditures and check in your payment?
Why not use direct debit? Everything is automatic, your work payment gets transfered (mostly) the same day every month and your expenditures get deducted.

 

[Stinkles]

German here
I don't get Credit cards. The whole concept always sounded insane for me.

- you have to pay a fee for using it - Not necessarily. I don't. Many don't.

- you have to balance the whole thing (either paying upfront where you dont have the cash available for something that doesnt take cc's or you have to pay after the month where you could come into a situation where you dont have enough money to pay the balance) In that scenario I can pay just a couple of dollars for the convenience of an upfront "loan" from the CC company.

- the nonexistent security measures are insane, you just need the cc number or the card itself to rob someone - There are many security measures, inlcuding PINs, photo ID and the banks are liable for much of the fraud, not the theft victim.

- you can overspend - You can set it up so you can't

I have a bank account with an electronic cash card since I was 16. It has access to my whole account and I can cash out money and pay with it everywhere. Security is ok, you need the PIN to take money out or pay with it. The places who only need a signature are liable for damages if the EC card is stolen. There is a max amount of money you can take out per day. - Again a consumer can set that up too

And for online buying I have paypal. - Yeah, no danger of fraud or overcharging there.

If you need to pay something bigger you just take a loan from the bank or from the shop you are buying something. The debt rates of CC's are little less than loansharks. I have excellent credit and vanishinlgy low APRs.


btw the whole account and banking system in the US is strange, why do you guys even have/use checks? Why do you have to go to the bank to pay your weekly/monthly expenditures and check in your payment? Checks are absurd. Old people are used to them. People with OCD like balancing their checkbook, in spite of it happeneing automatically and more accurately because computers.

Why not use direct debit? Everything is automatic, your work payment gets transfered (mostly) the same day every month and your expenditures get deducted.

.

 

[SRG01]

How exactly does manufactured spending work?

What are some common ways of spending credit cards without actually spending it?

There's lots of stuff on the internet if you do a search for it -- took me less than five minutes to find an extensive thread on it last night -- but suffice it to say, it's deemed as 'suspicious' behavior and may get a credit card flagged. Many retailers and banks actively find ways to curb this behavior.

 

[Mega Caprison]

Congrats. You are overpaying for everything.

And how's that? Maybe he's not from the US and his country still majority using cash.

 

[bigzgod]

Between my wife and I, we have amassed 1 million Chase Ultimate Rewards, 150k United miles, 200k Marriott Points, 50k Southwest miles, 75k SPG points, 50k Amex points, and 80k IHG points. My wife and I have signed up for 18 cards combined in the past 10 months. Our credit scores have barely changed. Mine slightly went down from high 700s and hers went up from the low 700s. We will be flying to Barcelona in May for free, Hawaii in August for free, business class to Tokyo for free in Feb and then Thailand as well. All hotels in Hawaii, Tokyo, and Thailand will be free or very heavily discounted. The cash price for all those flights and hotels is over $20,000. And I will still have hundreds of thousand points left over while still earning more without even signing up for more cards.

We have a decent combined income of 150k but I am a frugal person who doesn't buy what I don't need and have paid my credit card in full every single month. I also buy gift cards to meet the signup bonus and transfer the gift cards into my bank account.

I'm kind of surprised you'd do that many in such a short period of time. I'd space those out purely out of the risk of another fantastic offer like the Sapphire Reserve card coming around and having to miss out because of 5/24.

 

[Laws00]

If you have 29 you just have a problem, period

 

[Leafhopper]

I have a debit card. Can't have a bunch of credit cards if I am broke and have to pay all that crap off.

My dad has 10+ Credit cards sure.

If you have some number like 29 though you need help probably.

 

[Thatonemoor]

Hey 25 here and I don't have a single credit card.

 

[FactoryofLies]

What proportion of those points are from your spending, including gift cards?

Tough to say as I don't track it. I started signing up for them right after I bought a big house which needed to be completely furnished and some minor repairs done. So that contributed quite a lot. Some medical expenses. Everything else is food/bills/paying off used car in full after buying it with a CC. I would estimate less than 50 percent was organicspend and not gift cards.

 

[Syriel]

German here
I don't get Credit cards. The whole concept always sounded insane for me.

- you have to pay a fee for using it
- you have to balance the whole thing (either paying upfront where you dont have the cash available for something that doesnt take cc's or you have to pay after the month where you could come into a situation where you dont have enough money to pay the balance)
- the nonexistent security measures are insane, you just need the cc number or the card itself to rob someone
- you can overspend

I have a bank account with an electronic cash card since I was 16. It has access to my whole account and I can cash out money and pay with it everywhere. Security is ok, you need the PIN to take money out or pay with it. The places who only need a signature are liable for damages if the EC card is stolen. There is a max amount of money you can take out per day.

And for online buying I have paypal.

If you need to pay something bigger you just take a loan from the bank or from the shop you are buying something. The debt rates of CC's are little less than loansharks.


btw the whole account and banking system in the US is strange, why do you guys even have/use checks? Why do you have to go to the bank to pay your weekly/monthly expenditures and check in your payment?
Why not use direct debit? Everything is automatic, your work payment gets transfered (mostly) the same day every month and your expenditures get deducted.

Stinkles covered most of it already, but pretty much everything you just said about credit cards is incorrect.

- Most credit cards have no annual fee.
- There is no trick to "balancing" a credit card so long as you use it properly and don't spend money you don't have. Given the way cards itemize and categorize spending, it's actually easier to track your spend as compared to using cash.
- Credit cards offer more security and protection than debit cards or PayPal.
- You can overspend no matter what you use (credit or debit). Spending responsibly has nothing to do with the method of payment.
- If you're using a credit card responsibly, you're not paying any interest fees, so APR is a moot point.

As for payment, what you described is how it happens for many.

Paycheck is deposited electronically.
Bills are paid via credit card.
Credit card bill is paid electronically.
Rewards (cash back, rewards points, etc.) are credited to the cardholder electronically.

And all that is just assuming you are only using a credit card as a payment instrument. In addition to cash back and rewards, credit cards also offer a number of other benefits like price protection (something went on sale 3 weeks later and the store doesn't adjust? get your $$$ back from the card) and extended warranty (your cell phone broke 6 months out of warranty? no problem; it'll either get repaired or refunded).

 

[S-Wind]

1) Open Incognito
2) Google title
3) Enjoy

Still behind a paywall after steps 1 and 2....

 

[Usobuko]

No debt, 2 debit cards.

 

[brian577]

No credit cards, just a debit card. Spent a good chunk of my life in debt to my parents for stupid decisions, ain't no way in hell I'm going to back to that shit. I can look at my bank account and know exactly how much money I have. Nothing to track, simple. I see no point in complicating my life for some perceived benefits.

 

[pillowtalk]

What a weird thing. I remember over ten years ago a news segment on tv was talking about how some people were living in debt with 20 credit cards maxed out. I thought "look at these dumb old people".