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Has the Insomniac leak made you reconsider PlayStations Live Service push?

Has the leak helped you understand PlayStations Live Service strategy better?

  • Yes. I didn't realize how expensive AAA was becoming.

  • No, it still doesn't make sense to me.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Hi-Fi Rush -> Microsoft: "Was a resounding success." / Received to player and critical acclaim.
Square enix -> Dragon quest, Octopath, Nier.... Just look up their sales data.
It's really hard to take one seriously after a comment this absurd.
Being the most expensive for them means nothing. Its still a fraction of the budget of a major AAA title. And they themselves said they would be focusing on smaller projects for the moment.
It still proves they're following the AAA trend that leads to a cliff.

The "data" has been provided through multiple threads and i've been quoting you on every single one when they come up 🤷‍♂️
It's always "somewhere else".
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
I do not get the drama, there's always a "fad" genre that promises to be super lucrative. Plastic instrument games, motion-control games, etc.
 

Fabieter

Member
Well most people probably have some kinds of gaas games to fall back to when there is no new sp games or they just feel a bit burned-out.

So its definitely smart to try to get some working gaas ips as well.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
True, but supporting the business model dictates design and to a large extent genre.
russell-westbrook-nba.gif


When people see GAAS they have a certain type of product in mind, hence the complaints.
Multiplayer. Single player gamers resent the rise of multiplayer.
 

Kerotan

Member
I never wanted the push anyway.

The GAAS market is well covered on playstation.

Players pumping money into FIFA/Cod, Warframe/destiny/Division, rocket league/Fortnite/fall guys not to mention GTA/Siege and others. Maybe once every few years a New contender emerges and breaks into this market.

Sony getting most studios to try and strike gold in this saturated market was retarded.

As other publishers abandoned single player AAA games in favour of this gravy train Sony filled the gap like never before. So many people buy playstation for these exclusives. While Sony don't make crazy profits from their software these players will give them profit's through subscriptions and don't forget Sony get a 30% cut from all the crazy money spent on the popular GAAS titles.

Sony should stay in their lane.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
russell-westbrook-nba.gif



Multiplayer. Single player gamers resent the rise of multiplayer.

So replacing GAAS with multi-player makes it less vague?

Seems like an even less accurate description given that multiplayer doesn't always mean the same thing, or is the exclusive appeal of the title.

Seems to me the key reason for disapproval is how the service aspect is monetized, not that there's an ongoing service model in itself.
 
Everyone in the industry has already done this math.

No one is doing it because it doesn't work.

They're going GAAS because GAAS is the safer, more profitable bet.

Miles Morales was a smart decision by Insomniac but it only worked because of the IP and because it grew from the crazy expensive 2018 Spiderman. Think of the cost of Spiderman 3 + the Spiderman 3 spin off game and compare it to 2018s pair.

I always told you guys the single player market was shrinking. No one believed me. This Insomniac leak has been instrumental in illustrating my point.
Shrinking so much that Sony/Insomniac basically doubled down on it by by their roadmap that got leaked lol. I don't see SP games going anywhere for a LONG time and actually feel like it's a safer bet, at least for Sony, than GaAS.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
No.

In my opinion Sony should be focusing on cutting development time, reducing scope, doing a lot with a little etc.

I look at a game like Mario Wonder or Ori and they are timelessly beautiful. Sony seem to think the only way to create a nice looking game is to have 3000 artist in order to render 1 jacket.

I don’t want 50 hour long games like Horizon and GoW when they are stuffed with padding. Just give us concise 15-20 hour single player games instead.
 
Sony is probably going to be pretty stale this generation with it’s remakes…

Guerilla is now the Horizon studio, Naughty Dog is the Uncharted/TLOU studio, SuckerPunch is the GoT studio, sony Santa Monica is the GOW studio, and Insomniac is the Marvel studio…. I’m going to hate this generation…
when someone says out loud what i've been thinking...

not into gaas/multi, but am into new franchises &/or double-a games - stuff that used to be somewhat the norm, basically...
 
Their games have always felt like summer blockbusters to me. Enjoyable when you are experiencing them but forgettable soon after which makes the Marvel pairing a bit humorous and also the perfect fit. And considering they went through development doldrums prior to Ratchet(PS4)/Spider-Man(PS4), I'm happy they've found solid footing. They are a rock solid development house and could probably teach most other studios about production schedules.
The only fucking sensible take.

They been struggling since Resistance 2. Spewing Ratchet and Clank games here and there has kept them float during their phases of Fuse, Outernauts, Sunset Overdrive, Stormland... Spiderman saved them from being a 80 person studio releasing a R&C game here and there.
 

bender

What time is it?
The only fucking sensible take.

They been struggling since Resistance 2. Spewing Ratchet and Clank games here and there has kept them float during their phases of Fuse, Outernauts, Sunset Overdrive, Stormland... Spiderman saved them from being a 80 person studio releasing a R&C game here and there.

Don't forget Song of the Deep published by a GameTrust (GameStop).
 

magnumpy

Member
it's not surprising. gamers (us) and Sony don't necessarily have the same motives.

gamers just want great games because they're fun to play, while Sony is a corporation so their motives are profit driven. basically I don't care how much money Sony makes this quarter, while Sony as a corporation definitely does.
 
This thread is a bit late.

This was already realised when TLOU2 budget was outed at 200m+.

With that said, Sony needs someone with a keen eye to keep budgets in check. Aim for 50 million for all their games. Bump it up to 200m+ if a studio comes up with truly something special and groundbreaking.

If a studio cannot make something very good for 50m, it’s not a good studio anyways.
 

ProtoByte

Member
No.

In my opinion Sony should be focusing on cutting development time, reducing scope, doing a lot with a little etc.

I look at a game like Mario Wonder or Ori and they are timelessly beautiful. Sony seem to think the only way to create a nice looking game is to have 3000 artist in order to render 1 jacket.
What Nintendo does will never be tolerated by critics, fans or customers if done by anyone else in the industry. Nintendo's position is unique and impossible to replicate without letting the bottom fall out of demand for PlayStation consoles.

I don’t want 50 hour long games like Horizon and GoW when they are stuffed with padding. Just give us concise 15-20 hour single player games instead.
They did exactly that, and everything you mentioned in your first paragraph with Spider-Man 2, and the game cost more than either of those.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
It doesn't change anything. Creating a SUCCESSFUL live service game is much harder. The trends may change by the time you finish the game x years later, there may be other titles fighting for the player's attention, your monetization model may drive people away or tons of other things can go wrong.
I will agree that AA games should make a comeback, not just from the smaller publishers, but from giants like Sony as well. Not every first party game has to be a 200-300mil+ monstrosity.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
This thread is a bit late.

This was already realised when TLOU2 budget was outed at 200m+.

With that said, Sony needs someone with a keen eye to keep budgets in check. Aim for 50 million for all their games. Bump it up to 200m+ if a studio comes up with truly something special and groundbreaking.

If a studio cannot make something very good for 50m, it’s not a good studio anyways.
I’m not sure if it’s late considering the market is in constant flux. New measurements should always be considered to gauge the ever changing trends. Plus, let’s be real…a lot of people have been in denial wanting the market to be what it was in 2007 forever.


It doesn't change anything. Creating a SUCCESSFUL live service game is much harder.
Creating a successful car is much harder than creating a successful horse. Cars are the dominant form of transportation because the benefits of creating a successful car vastly outweigh the benefits of creating a successful horse. This mirrors the gaming industry perfectly.
The trends may change by the time you finish the game x years later, there may be other titles fighting for the player's attention, your monetization model may drive people away or tons of other things can go wrong.
The great thing about GAAS is that it’s multiplayer centric (humans are the most social animal in earths history), and it’s far more nimble than the traditional model, meaning that if the market shifts overnight it’s far easier to due so in the GAAS model than it is using the traditional P2P model. This suggests it’s the most forward facing model in the business.
I will agree that AA games should make a comeback, not just from the smaller publishers, but from giants like Sony as well. Not every first party game has to be a 200-300mil+ monstrosity.
AA games have all but vanished for a reason. The market has consistently moved away from AA for the last 20 years. If you pay attention to the NPD charts it’s loaded with the most expensive games in the industry. GTAV still charting high today should tell you how difficult AA efforts have it now.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
What Nintendo does will never be tolerated by critics, fans or customers if done by anyone else in the industry. Nintendo's position is unique and impossible to replicate without letting the bottom fall out of demand for PlayStation consoles.
Nintendo and Xbox both have AA games. Sony is pushing AAA only harder than anyone.
 
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ProtoByte

Member
Nintendo and Xbox both have AA games. Sony is pushing AAA only harder than anyone.
You know that's not what I'm talking about.
Sony's AA games look and play better than most Nintendo's AAAs, and usually have more going on under the hood. And yes, Sony does and has had them.
 

DavidGzz

Member
Yeah, it's funny. PS gamers don't want Sony to succeed or even attempt GAAS but they also want Sony to buy something like Capcom instead of small fries. They need to make the money that makes Capcom less expensive to them first. I understand the hate for GAAS, but if Sony can strike gold like Epic has, it's an overall win for Sony.

And I buy Playstations for their SP games so no, I don't want them to focus on GAAS either. Just saying, it could make them a lot of money.
 
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Punished Miku

Gold Member
You know that's not what I'm talking about.
Sony's AA games look and play better than most Nintendo's AAAs, and usually have more going on under the hood. And yes, Sony does and has had them.
Sincerely, no I dont understand your response. Sony had AA games last gen but not this gen other than AstroBot. I liked a lot of those, like Gravity Rush, Puppeteer, Tokyo Jungle, Echochrime. I dont think they play better than Nintendo games which are usually acknowledged as having top tier controls almost all the time.

My only point is Sony is going this alone. Both other consumer bases are fine with AA games. PC is too.
 
Yeah, it's funny. PS gamers don't want Sony to succeed or even attempt GAAS but they also want Sony to buy something like Capcom instead of small fries. They need to make the money that makes Capcom less expensive to them first. I understand the hate for GAAS, but if Sony can strike gold like Epic has, it's an overall win for Sony.

And I buy Playstations for their SP games so no, I don't want them to focus on GAAS either. Just saying, it could make them a lot of money.
It might be a win for Sony but would it be a win for there players?

I'm pretty neutral on GAAS none have grabbed me so far but I'm open to my mind being changed but fuck paying any money after the initial transaction.

As a single player fan I'm a little concerned about the GAAS push. In theory it great they get a GAAS mega hit and that could subsidise their single player games...but in reality there's a chance they double down on there major hit and divert resources away from there single player games.

That would be awful the fact that Sony's bank balance is better wouldn't change that.
 

DavidGzz

Member
It might be a win for Sony but would it be a win for there players?

I'm pretty neutral on GAAS none have grabbed me so far but I'm open to my mind being changed but fuck paying any money after the initial transaction.

As a single player fan I'm a little concerned about the GAAS push. In theory it great they get a GAAS mega hit and that could subsidise their single player games...but in reality there's a chance they double down on there major hit and divert resources away from there single player games.

That would be awful the fact that Sony's bank balance is better wouldn't change that.


Well, the richer they get, the better for their players in the long run. Imagine they can take more risks and spend more money on other AAA games other than Spiderman. If they could afford more devs or spend more money on building more devs it could also be a net win for their players. I mean, this year was pretty barren on the exclusive front for Sony.

I think Sony know what their core players like so they will not leave them hanging, but I could be wrong.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Question for the tc: What's your interest in GaaS titles? Are you a gaas developer or just a mega fan?

I will assume the role of tc.

There’s two main reasons…

1. Pursuing fun (engagement) leads to better game design than pursuing the idea of fun (pay to play). Fighting for our time rather than our dollar creates a healthier environment for innovation and enjoyment. I don’t know why single player gamer’s aren’t livid over the low engagement rates found everywhere in AAA SP.

2. Player to player interactions are wildly more varied and interesting than player to AI interactions. For example, Elden Rings combat is something we’ve seen since the late 90s. Compare that to Among Us, Gary’s Mod, or Rust and its night and day how much more interesting PvP can be.
 
I will assume the role of tc.

There’s two main reasons…

1. Pursuing fun (engagement) leads to better game design than pursuing the idea of fun (pay to play). Fighting for our time rather than our dollar creates a healthier environment for innovation and enjoyment. I don’t know why single player gamer’s aren’t livid over the low engagement rates found everywhere in AAA SP.

2. Player to player interactions are wildly more varied and interesting than player to AI interactions. For example, Elden Rings combat is something we’ve seen since the late 90s. Compare that to Among Us, Gary’s Mod, or Rust and its night and day how much more interesting PvP can be.
While I appreciate your response, it sounds more corporate than user.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I don’t know why single player gamer’s aren’t livid over the low engagement rates found everywhere in AAA SP.
I put over 400 + hours in to game like Elden Ring without EVER touching PVP or co-op, same with Armored Core VI.....I dont need to have GaaS and live service crap to have "high engagement" in my games.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
I put over 400 + hours in to game like Elden Ring without EVER touching PVP or co-op, same with Armored Core VI.....I dont need to have GaaS and live service crap to have "high engagement" in my games.

Publishers don’t operate based on your specific preferences.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Publishers don’t operate based on your specific preferences.
In your post you said why SP players dont complain about "low engagement" in SP games and I said we dont need GaaS crap to have high engagement in our SP games.....Elden Ring is perfect example.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
In your post you said why SP players dont complain about "low engagement" in SP games and I said we dont need GaaS crap to have high engagement in our SP games.....Elden Ring is perfect example.
I’m talking about overall engagement/completion rates among the entire player base.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
I dont even use my base ties game pass I got automatically when they switched over.

But you know if they got enough classic pax and ps2 games I might try it.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Nothing that refutes your points are ever relevant in your threads

Imagine being in a high level strategy meeting with Jim Ryan and the execs are going over detailed analytics that show how important GAAS have become…then some crazy person blurts out their personal preferences when it comes to games and suggests that’s relevant to the meeting.

That person would be escorted out of the room.
 
Well, the richer they get, the better for their players in the long run. Imagine they can take more risks and spend more money on other AAA games other than Spiderman. If they could afford more devs or spend more money on building more devs it could also be a net win for their players. I mean, this year was pretty barren on the exclusive front for Sony.

I think Sony know what their core players like so they will not leave them hanging, but I could be wrong.
In theory this is what should happen but it often doesn't. Activision have made more money over the years while releasing less as have rockstar.

The budgets showed by Sony that there Single player investments were static so at least we were presumably getting a similar amount of Single player games but it wasn't increasing....
 
I switched to PC gaming just in time. I understand that most gamers are into GaaS/online gaming these days but it ain't for me.
 
Imagine being in a high level strategy meeting with Jim Ryan and the execs are going over detailed analytics that show how important GAAS have become…then some crazy person blurts out their personal preferences when it comes to games and suggests that’s relevant to the meeting.

That person would be escorted out of the room.


Yes we need to keep personal taste and objective WHAT WILL MAKE LOADS OF MONEY seperate.

Fortnite makes more money than Cyberpunk or any other single player game. It is what it is.
 
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