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[GHG]

The statements in the title are in accordance with internal documents shared with the CMA from Activision Blizzard.

On monetisation see 216.a:

And regarding intentions for cloud gaming 244.c:

Original source:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/634536048fa8f5153767e533/MSFT.ABK_phase_1_decision_-_1.09.2022.pdf

Long live the technical limitations I say.

 

[01011001]

Streaming will never become the standard. by the time the infrastructure is there we will have phones in our pockets that can play RTX3080ti levels of games, and at that point, why bother with streaming?

 

[Godot25]

They are right.

Once we will reach optimisation within streaming ecosystem, casual audience will literally not care about "owning a console." Consoles will be still there, also PC's, but streaming will increase in it's popularity. And with that, hand in hand, subscription services.

 

[GHG]

Streaming will never become the standard. by the time the infrastructure is there we will have phones in our pockets that can play RTX3080ti levels of games, and at that point, why bother with streaming?

Well this is what I hope. But my worry is that the industry will increasingly railroad us down that direction. The first red flag for me will be when we start getting "streaming only" games.

The primary issue for me at this point is the fact that subscriptions and streaming are synonymous with each other and the former will be (and already is being) used to condition large numbers of people people into becoming accustomed to streaming as a means for playing games.

 

[laynelane]

Kinda sad that monetization is front and center in this scenario. In terms of that future, I don't care for sub plans and don't think that will change. So, if I end up getting left behind, it will be backlog time.

 

[lh032]

i disagree streaming to replace consoles. At least console dont need a constant 24 hours internet connection to run your games, that would be pretty inconvenience and dumb

 

[Abriael_GN]

Heard this before.

Just because whatever "third party" tells the CMA (that has absolutely zero expertise about gaming and as such is unable to weigh the value of this kind of analysis) something, it doesn't mean it'll happen.

 

[GHG]

Heard this before.

Just because whatever "third party" tells the CMA (that has absolutely zero expertise about gaming and as such is unable to weigh the value of this kind of analysis) something, it doesn't mean it'll happen.

The statements are from Activision Blizzard.

Would you classify them as "whatever third party" or do their words and intentions not have weight considering their significance?

 

[supernova8]

Yeah I agree that is where we're heading. The only obstacles now are technological rather than ideological for the majority of people (ie what people on this forum like is kinda irrelevant. That's why music and tv/movies have pretty much completely moved to streaming (of course people will probably always go to the cinema because it's an experience almost nobody can reliably replicate at home, just like people will go out to eat dinner when they can cook at home).

I already moved to music streaming and video content streaming because it's more convenient and gives me access to a wider variety of content at a low, almost forgettable monthly price. I have no real interest in owning music or video content and it's the same for games. If I can pay a low monthly price and have access to games I like to the point that I feel I've consumed enough value to make it worth it, then I'm happy.

Game Pass is a good value proposition (for the consumer, not really bothered what is good for developers) but I wouldn't do streaming because I'd rather not deal with the internet connection speed and latency/input lag-related issues.

If you think about it, it's all about the games, not the physical platform. You can still have platforms and platform holders (and competition between them through exclusive games, timed exclusivity etc, just like we have with Amazon Prime video vs Netflix) but it'll be in the cloud. I don't see why the majority of people (again not people on GAF) would bother with a physical device once the technological issues are ironed out.

Besides, when I was kid I used to rent games, finish them in a few days and take them back. Compared to that, Game Pass (or insert game subscription service, GP is just the first one that springs to mind) is (potentially) much cheaper on a per-game basis if you're the type to dip your toes into various games on and off simultaneously. It used to be like 3 or 4 quid to rent a single game for a couple of nights. In comparison, you can now pay 11 quid and get access to whatever you want for the whole month. If you were to rent one game every 3 or 4 days you'd be looking at 30-40 quid a month.

It's really just the same thing but you don't have to physically go to the store to get the game and then take it back. In short, people who derived value from rentals would obviously derive value from a subscription service.

 

[Skifi28]

Meh, it's the usual "billions of gamers are out there waiting for X technology so they can jump into gaming"

Though it usually turns out they just don't care, otherwise they would already be on console/PC like the rest of us.

 

[GHound]

If streaming ever becomes the only way to play anything more than a handful of shovelware then the game industry can frankly suck my balls.

 

[Schmick]

Well there you have it; statement 244 (d) shows how out of touch GAF can be with the real world.

 

[Abriael_GN]

The statements are from Activision Blizzard.

Would you classify them as "whatever third party" or do their words and intentions not have weight considering their significance?

No. It says clearly that it's an independent report provided by a third party. And even those classified as provided by Microsoft and Activision Blizzard are still classified as third party report merely provided by them.

 

[supernova8]

If streaming ever becomes the only way to play anything more than a handful of shovelware then the game industry can frankly suck my balls.

I doubt it'll be the only way. You can still purchase individual music and movie products but I mean paying like $10 for a single movie when you can get a month worth of a streaming service for almost the same price just seems stupid. I think we're heading in that direction with games. Plus with individual game prices going up to $70 this gen, the argument for just paying a single monthly fee instead gets even stronger.

 

[Abriael_GN]

Well there you have it; statement 244 (d) shows how out of touch GAF can be with the real world.

It's almost like companies can't be out of touch with the real world themselves and this kind of "statement" is automatically right.

Let's not forget that one of the most prominent examples of game streaming just failed miserably. This is not to say that game streaming will fail, but saying that it's the "ubiquitous" future, especially with the current situation of internet connections, or even in the foreseeable future, is far from obvious.

 

[MOTM]

Maybe 15+ years from now.

 

[GHG]

No. It says clearly that it's an independent report provided by a third party. And even those classified as provided by Microsoft and Activision Blizzard are still classified as third party report merely provided by them.

Ah gotcha, I understood your original post as "third party publisher", not in terms of the origins of the statements themselves. So then the question becomes why would Microsoft and Activision include them as part of their submission if they weren't in agreement with those statements?

Well there you have it; statement 244 (d) shows how out of touch GAF can be with the real world.

Do you have details of the figures that are cut out of 244.d? Because if not it's not really giving us much to go off.

 

[Bojanglez]

Streaming will never become the standard. by the time the infrastructure is there we will have phones in our pockets that can play RTX3080ti levels of games, and at that point, why bother with streaming?

Because 10 years ago people may have said the same about PS3/360 level graphics in our pockets. Yet people still want better graphics (and other benefits). I love console gaming, but there will probably be a point in time where streaming tech and infrastructure is so good that it will be the most economical way to play games and companies to make money.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I can see a future where streaming takes over. Especially as the younger generation weened on microtransactions and mobile games, grows.

Owning a collection of games probably means little to them.

 

[Mephisto40]

It's going to be interesting when the first AAA game releases that is "streaming only"

I know we are years and years away from this, but imagine the meltdown

 

[Abriael_GN]

Ah gotcha, I understood your original post as "third party publisher", not in terms of the origins of the statements themselves. So then the question becomes why would Microsoft and Activision include them as part of their submission if they weren't in agreement with those statements?

Whether they agree or not is kind of irrelevant. The documents they're providing to the CMA are simply documents that are convenient to their cause, not necessarily documents they believe in. And even if they did believe in them, they could still be misguided.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Kirk put it best in the latest episode of Triple Click... paraphrasing a bit, but he basically said "Look, once playing games via streaming becomes as good as watching the latest show or movie on something like Netflix, where it's perfect and it just works, then streaming will be at a point where you could argue you don't really need the console anymore". But, we're a long way from that happening, and beyond just the graphical and video quality just really not being there on a big screen for streaming games yet, there's the hurdle of latency.

I'd say at least 5-10 years of consoles being dominant.

 

[deriks]

They are right.

Once we will reach optimisation within streaming ecosystem, casual audience will literally not care about "owning a console." Consoles will be still there, also PC's, but streaming will increase in it's popularity. And with that, hand in hand, subscription services.

Exactly. It's a market thing. For sure will take something like two more console generations to get good, but is going to happen

Physical will never die thou

 

[Godot25]

Exactly. It's a market thing. For sure will take something like two more console generations to get good, but is going to happen

Physical will never die thou

Physical will never die in same way vinyl will never die.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Not for me.

 

[Zok310]

Who ever believes this needs to go eat shit and die.

 

[GHG]

Who ever believes this needs to go eat shit and die.

 

[Interfectum]

The recent shit that happened with HBO Max should give everyone pause. Fuck this streaming shit. I'll probably be too old to play or care by the time shit happens anyway.

 

[TrebleShot]

It’s coming and it will be great. It’s great already steam deck 3080 performance or remote play ps5 is incredible.

 

[Mephisto40]

Exactly. It's a market thing. For sure will take something like two more console generations to get good, but is going to happen

Physical will never die thou

I can pretty much guarantee you the next batch of consoles will be digital only

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Not going to replace consoles. Consoles are going to become even more niche. Just like turntables for example..

 

[Umbasaborne]

If that happens ill stick to my backlog and never spend money on a new game ever again : )

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Perhaps views of one of execs at Acti-Blizz.

They all seem too eager to invest in this streaming shit.

Phil on the other hand seems to have realistic expectations regarding streaming. Good thing MS is gonna buy them then.

 

[Frank Horrigan]

Streaming will never become the standard. by the time the infrastructure is there we will have phones in our pockets that can play RTX3080ti levels of games, and at that point, why bother with streaming?

I agree with the idea, but we're looking at streaming in the same way that people in the 90s saw consoles over arcades, or CD's over cartridges (looking at you Nintendo) or Multiplayer on consoles vs PC [insert your own comparison].

Streaming COD 4k@120fps is a pipe dream.
Streaming a simplistic indie side-scroller or gatcha MTX game is happening today. That's what Microsoft want to expand on.

There will always be demand for local hardware, in the same way that there will always be demand for hardcore games. The reality is that the demand of local hardware, will become miniscule compared to the demand for smartphone games.

150 million people, at best, own a console. 1+ billion own a smartphone. You can make games that stream and suit the 1+ billion, cheaper, with bigger ROI and profits, than you can for local hardware

That's what this whole ABK purchase is about.

 

[Topher]

I'm not against streaming, but I don't see it gaining any significant marketshare for quite some time. But what I am against is a gaming landscape dominated with games only available on streaming services. Thankfully I don't think that will happen because....

Physical will never die in same way vinyl will never die.

Vinyl is a good example. It should be long dead and yet it is still around. That is because demand dictates supply. Not the other way around. Streaming will not dictate where people play video games. For as long as there is a significant market of those who want to play locally then the market will supply that product.

 

[Frank Horrigan]

Perhaps views of one of execs at Acti-Blizz.

They all seem too eager to invest in this streaming shit.

Phil on the other hand seems to have realistic expectations regarding streaming. Good thing MS is gonna buy them then.

Phil Spencer: "We want gamepass to be on as many devices as possible, with as many ways to play as possible" = Phil Spencer isn't on board with streaming?

You're high as fuck dude.

I'm not against streaming, but I don't see it gaining any significant marketshare for quite some time. But what I am against is a gaming landscape dominated with games only available on streaming services. Thankfully I don't think that will happen because....



Vinyl is a good example. It should be long dead and yet it is still around. That is because demand dictates supply. Not the other way around. Streaming will not dictate where people play video games. For as long as there is a significant market of those who want to play locally then the market will supply that product.

Vinyl exists, but what are the profits of vinyl vs Cd vs digital purchases vs streaming services
VHS and DVD and Bluruay exist. What are the profits of Physical media vs digital downloads vs streaming
Books still exist. What are the profits of physical books vs digitally purchased vs streaming (kindle)

This isn't a question of whether or not something will exist, it's that it will be eclipsed to the point of obsolescence.

Name a hardcore game. then for every hardcore game name 3 casual games. Then for every casual game name 5 indie/mobile games.

 

[Topher]

Phil Spencer: "We want gamepass to be on as many devices as possible, with as many ways to play as possible" = Phil Spencer isn't on board with streaming?

You're high as fuck dude.

To be fair, Spencer has said on multiple occasions that streaming will not replace local gaming.

 

[Frank Horrigan]

To be fair, Spencer has said on multiple occasions that streaming will not replace local gaming.

He's right, it won't. But it will over-shadow it.

Microsoft want to enter the mobile market. They've said it time and time again. Everything they do, every decision they've made since the start of this gen and before, has moved Microsoft away from their old mantra/MO and toward their new ideas of online and streaming.

Xcloud isn't a thing for no reason. It's part of the wider microsoft strategy; everything in the cloud, on Azure servers where they control the cost and content.

 

[GHG]

To be fair, Spencer has said on multiple occasions that streaming will not replace local gaming.

Phil also said this:

“In addition, we hope that players will be eager to play traditional console games from Activision Blizzard on other platforms via our cloud game streaming technology."

And Microsoft themselves said this just the other day:

" Xbox, as a platform which is in last place in console, seventh place in PC and nowhere in mobile game distribution globally, has no incentive to do this – instead its incentive is to encourage the widespread adoption of cloud gaming technologies by as many providers as possible to encourage the major shift in consumer behaviour required for cloud gaming to succeed,"

 

[Three]

Heard this before.

Just because whatever "third party" tells the CMA (that has absolutely zero expertise about gaming and as such is unable to weigh the value of this kind of analysis) something, it doesn't mean it'll happen.

Dude it's not whatever "third party" telling the CMA. It's from both MS and ABK internal documents. If anything ABK and MS would downplay cloud and up-play the importance of consoles.

 

[Topher]

Vinyl exists, but what are the profits of vinyl vs Cd vs digital purchases vs streaming services
VHS and DVD and Bluruay exist. What are the profits of Physical media vs digital downloads vs streaming
Books still exist. What are the profits of physical books vs digitally purchased vs streaming (kindle)

This isn't a question of whether or not something will exist, it's that it will be eclipsed to the point of obsolescence.

Name a hardcore game. then for every hardcore game name 3 casual games. Then for every casual game name 5 indie/mobile games.

But continued existence is what I'm talking about. Obviously profits are good enough for all those products you mentioned and they remain a viable business.

Phil also said this:

“In addition, we hope that players will be eager to play traditional console games from Activision Blizzard on other platforms via our cloud game streaming technology."

And Microsoft themselves said this just the other day:

" Xbox, as a platform which is in last place in console, seventh place in PC and nowhere in mobile game distribution globally, has no incentive to do this – instead its incentive is to encourage the widespread adoption of cloud gaming technologies by as many providers as possible to encourage the major shift in consumer behaviour required for cloud gaming to succeed,"

The first quote isn't that bad, but yeah, that second one has some sting to it. But I'm on record as saying that I'm not putting a lot of stock into the arguments being made by Microsoft, Sony or other company's lawyers in their submissions in the AB acquisition so I'll stick to that. I do get your point though.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Honestly, all fair concerns tbh.

 

[MScarpa]

Streaming will be the future someday. Whether niche hardcores like it or not. No need to download, then wait for the install, etc just click and play.

 

[Laptop1991]

I hope not as the quality of games will go down and already has in quite a few cases, i prefer stand alone titles that sell themselves, i guess it's wait and see what happens.

 

[Punished Miku]

Primary means doesn't mean only means. As long as there's options I'm good.

If cloud gaming ever takes off it would be the primary means. Would tap into a large market that doesn't own consoles.

 

[cash_longfellow]

They were saying this shit before Stadia came out….stop it

 

[Warnen]

Don’t care really, as shit changes people will adapt. If it sucks people won’t adopt it and it won’t change.

 

[Fake]

No fucking thanks.

 

[Party McHardy]

You will own nothing and you will be happy.

 

[adamsapple]

"become ubiquitous, replace consoles, and be the primary means" of accessing games​

It will. But not for another couple of years or at least one, two more console generations. The tech is rapidly evolving and getting better with each iteration but it's not quite there yet where it can safely and reliably replace a native experience.