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Gaming peaked during 6th gen, change my mind

But everything that became what we now consider modern gaming...started then.

Analog sticks, online gaming, rumble, true 3D gaming... hell, even the first `cinematic` games.

The stuff you mention, graphics and framerates... has nothing to do with actual gaming.

That was the generation where we had the first 100M selling console... consoles even became a thing in Africa then. It cant be overstated how important the 5th gen was to gaming as we know it today.
Correct, although it wasn't until gen 6 where the tech was there to make all of these innovations execute effectively.

Most PS1/N64 games were limited by the sub 20 frame rates, weird control schemes (N64 and even the Saturn), and really low poly visuals.

This game was a reality, one gen later (gen 6)

583100-914836_20040708_001.jpg


In real time at 60 FPS with full online features out of the box, and proper controllers that are still the basis for today.
 
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Mr.Phoenix

Member
Correct, although it wasn't until gen 6 where the tech was there to make all of these innovations execute effectively.

Most PS1/N64 games were limited by the sub 20 frame rates, weird control schemes (N64 and even the Saturn), and really low poly visuals.

This game was a reality, one gen later (gen 6)

583100-914836_20040708_001.jpg


In real time at 60 FPS with full online features out of the box, and proper controllers that are still the basis for today.

You keep talking about the graphics.... in truth thats the least important thing to mention.

I guess that's the problem with modern gaming today. We have seemingly lost site of the fact that games were actually about innovation and having fun.

You bring up dead or alive... whereas, Tekken 3 (and even Tekken 2 before that)on the PS1-defined 3D fighting games period. Right along wth Virtua Fighter.

We had MGS, RE1,2,3, FF7,8,9, Vagrant Story, FFT, Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Wipeout, Gran Turismo, Golden Eye, Turok, Tomb Raider, Soul Reaver... I could go on and on and on. I mean.. we actually started having actual voice actors in games that weren't some super underground PC thing.

Everything that came after, was built on the foundations these games set. And while it is easy to look in hindsight and say oh the games in the 6th gen looked better, higher fps...etc. But when we got what we got in the 5th gen..that shit was cutting edge then.

And think about it... genres were literally carved out in the 5th gen.. there has not been a new genre created since then in every gen that followed. I am not talking about how pretty games looked... I am talking about the innovations and the impact of the games of the generation... and the 5th gen...is when gaming went from being that niche thing people do at home and at arcades on fun days... to becoming as common as a VCR next to the TV.
 
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LRKD

Member
I don't care when you think it peaked, as long as we can all agree it truly started its decline at some point during the 7th gen, and hasn't really improved since. Devs had a hard time adjusting to 'hd' development. And then dev team size, budget, marketing, it all became over bloated leading into the standardization of AAA games, everything became far safer to satisfy publishers and investor concerns. can't have anything to creative or it might not sell well. Can't have anything to risky or it might offend modern sensibilities. Individual devs can't put their own heart into it because they are just a small cog in the machine. The only places games have continued to evolve is in smaller publishers and indies, and even then, they struggle to reach where we were 15 years ago.

This isn't to say there weren't absolute bangers between the 7th gen and now, there have been plenty. One of my favorite games of all time released in 2012. And some of my most played games of all time released in like 2014, and 2016. It's just become very same-y and sterile for AAA, they no longer push the envelope in anything but graphics, and how much money they can milk out of the player.
 

phant0m

Member
I generally agree OP, though I will say 7th gen made the consoles themselves more useful with internet connectivity and apps/streaming.

But 6th gen had the best game variety in both genre and size (AAA/AA/B/C). The industry has only gotten more homogenized each year since.
 
I don't care when you think it peaked, as long as we can all agree it truly started its decline at some point during the 7th gen, and hasn't really improved since. Devs had a hard time adjusting to 'hd' development. And then dev team size, budget, marketing, it all became over bloated leading into the standardization of AAA games, everything became far safer to satisfy publishers and investor concerns. can't have anything to creative or it might not sell well. Can't have anything to risky or it might offend modern sensibilities. Individual devs can't put their own heart into it because they are just a small cog in the machine. The only places games have continued to evolve is in smaller publishers and indies, and even then, they struggle to reach where we were 15 years ago.

This isn't to say there weren't absolute bangers between the 7th gen and now, there have been plenty. One of my favorite games of all time released in 2012. And some of my most played games of all time released in like 2014, and 2016. It's just become very same-y and sterile for AAA, they no longer push the envelope in anything but graphics, and how much money they can milk out of the player.
7th gen was when the suits took over, especially noticeable during the second half of it.

I had all consoles that gen and a top end gaming PC at the time, btw
 

sachos

Member
It was the perfect blend of classic gaming with good enough 3D graphics that you no longer need to "fill in the blanks" and you can tell more serious stories with it too. Developers also learned how to finally properly control 3D games with dual stick controls. Also was the perfect era for arcade racing games, so much variety of racing games from cartoony to realistic and so much split screen support, it was amazing. I really think indie devs should target 6th console gen style dev cycles.
We have to be thankful for emulator developers for immortalizing those consoles and making them better than ever. Upscaling Gamecube and PS2 to 4K can look amazing.
 
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I think I have to agree to an extent. I think today's games are better but there are much fewer of them. What I don't like about last gen and 7th gen is that too many franchises changed their core identities to attract the "filthy casuals" and it alienated fans. The biggest victim of that trend is Splinter Cell in my opinion but Resident Evil also suffered from it.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
The 360/PS3/Wii division I'd say was the best. You had Wii waggle/Kinect/Move for those fans. But the core games improved a lot, online became standard on console, and lots of PC games and PC dev came in droves to console.
 

HofT

Member
Both gen 6 and gen 7 were peak. Plus, the way that era was marketed made the hype levels damn real
 
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flying_sq

Member
I would have to say 7th, with online gaming becoming a huge factor, backwards compatibility with early PS3 and 360, and the jump to HD. The Wii was a family darling. It was better, you had alot of 6th gen benefits, with never before realized or thought of features.
 

Rickyiez

Member
Nahh ... Gen 6 has no Bloodborne , Sekiro and Dark Souls . No Nier Automata , Sentinels 13 , Persona 5 , SF6 (and SF4) , Gears of War , Halo 3 , Apex Legend either

Those are some of the best games ever I enjoyed that your so called "peak" missing .
 
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LRKD

Member
7th gen was when the suits took over, especially noticeable during the second half of it.

I had all consoles that gen and a top end gaming PC at the time, btw
Exactly, there was always a little bit of suits interfering in gaming to some extent, but they completely took over AAA with 7th gen and have only tighten their grip since.
 

nkarafo

Member
7th Gen. There were massive improvements in game design in that gen over the 6th. Also a significant graphics boost. And Story driven games were taken to new heights.
Open worlds got better. Third person shooters got better.
The games at the mid-to-end of the 7th gen set the bar and laid the foundation for all the games we play today. Hasn't been an improvement since.

Only open world games got better because 7th gen systems were finally powerful enough to push decent looking open worlds.

Story driven games didn't become better, they just got more cinematic and easier to digest. That made them worse IMO.

Speaking of graphics boosts, 6th gen was a much bigger jump compared to 5th and it also improved the frame rate standards as well. 7th gen was both a smaller jump and a regression in frame rates at the same time. HD resolution was nice in still screens but horrible in motion. It was the time of low frame rates and motion blur, both from the games themselves and the immature HD panel technology.

And speaking of lower frame rates, Arcade racing games died during the 7th gen. Despite being the longest gen, it has the fewest 60fps arcade racing games. I struggle to remember a single one right now.

Let's also not forget the whole motion controls fad during a significant portion of 7th gen. And the mountains of casual games shovelware. That was easily one of the worst times for gaming. Was great time to be a Nintendo stock holder though.

Horror games regressed as well. Resident Evil 5 and 6 are easily the worst ones, i thought the iP would never recover. Same with Silent Hill games (that one never recovered though). If it wasn't for Dead Space, horror games would be non-existent. It was during the 7th gen when the industry told gamers they don't really want horror games.

Open world games became better. Demon/Dark Souls was born. And the Portal games. Those were the only highlights of 7th gen for me.
 
I love the irony of topics like this, because as soon as people finish posting on here they're off to Tictok, Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter All online or on their smartphones.
That's to lookover the number of utter crap games released on the 6th gen or games that clearly weren't finished, especially if you were a PS2 owner
 

buenoblue

Member
I don't really agree with this. I think gaming is at its best right now. Amazing graphics, amazing choice of platforms, diverse genres from indie to triple AAA.

I think what changes for the worst is ourselves. We get jaded because we've seen and done everything by now. And with adult responsibility we just don't have the time to invest like we did.

I think the best era of gaming is whatever gen it is when you are like 14-20 when you get your own system and setup, maybe a group of like minded friends for multiplayer, when everything is new and amazing to you.
 
A bad time for PC gaming then. After Crysis, there wasn't anything noteworthy in games targeting the PC platform.
There were still a fair few PC only games and also PC users with the cash could always play their games with better gfx and framerates
Crysis was a bit silly for me, I know of no one who had a PC that could play Crysis at anything like 60 FPS at the time, most had issue at 30 FPS and I include one top of the range PC that was in a shop demonstrating the game at PC world
 

kevm3

Member
The PS2 gen was one of my least favorite. Aside from a few games, a lot of the games on PS2 were dull looking visually.

This year has arguably been the best year of gaming I've experienced in a long, long time, since maybe 2007 or 1998.
 

Gandih42

Member
The PS2 era was undoubtedly amazing but I can't follow you on the majority of your cynicism and negativity towards the current Gen (note to self, I'm kind of including the tail end of the PS4/XBone era here).

Always-Online, GaaS, Excessive Monetization, etc., all that stuff I greatly dislike. Latest example being Diablo 4 which is much less appealing to me because of those aspects. That being said, I do understand that times change and won't always cater to me.

But what's more important is the absolute mountain of games that are excellent and do not fall under these trappings. Even in the AAA space, which has a higher tendency to suffer from the stuff above, we consistently get great stuff. Obviously it's subjective, but according to generalized concensus there's ToTK, Street Fighter, FFXVI, Jedi Survivor, Hogwarts Legacy (to pick some recent examples).

Going beyond AAA, the list becomes endless (to me at least). Kind of a pull but I'd recommend checking out some printed media if you're getting sick of the current discourse surrounding games. I recently started subscribing to Edge magazine, and while I'm sure some may cringe at the content, they give really awesome coverage to a lot of games that otherwise fly under the radar. Both in terms of previews, game dev, reviews, history etc. And the cover art so far has been top notch.
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
Obviously it's subjective, but according to generalized concensus there's ToTK, Street Fighter, FFXVI, Jedi Survivor, Hogwarts Legacy (to pick some recent examples).
You'd think so, but then why the only recent games that I bothered to replay after finishing them for the first times were both remakes of much older games (Dead Space and Resi 4)? I reject the notion that it's just about the nostalgia, because it's not just about replaying the games that I used to enjoy. I constantly seek out things that I haven't played before, even from older generations, and somehow only the older games seem to truly excite me anymore, even those that I'm playing for the first time. That and VR gaming, just because it's so unique that it feels like rediscovering video games all over again. Meanwhile, with most modern games I will usually play them once and forget about them a week later. Even the stuff that I was really looking forward to, like Jedi Survivor.

I think the main reason is that modern games are just too "safe" and same-y. Like it was mentioned ITT a couple of times already, there's just no creativity or risk-taking in modern gaming anymore and that's why it's so boring.

No wonder VR games get me so pumped because that's literally the only space in modern gaming where developers are actually experimenting and taking risks with new and exciting stuff.
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
People should learn what nostalgia is, why they feel it, and stop making these idiotic claims.
And people like you should actually start reading the posts in order to get a better idea of what the thread is actually about, before they fart out their own idiotic opinion.
 
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hyperbertha

Member
You'd think so, but then why the only recent games that I bothered to replay after finishing them for the first times were both remakes of much older games (Dead Space and Resi 4)? I reject the notion that it's just about the nostalgia, because it's not just about replaying the games that I used to enjoy. I constantly seek out things that I haven't played before, even from older generations, and somehow only the older games seem to truly excite me anymore, even those that I'm playing for the first time. That and VR gaming, just because it's so unique that it feels like rediscovering video games all over again. Meanwhile, with most modern games I will usually play them once and forget about them a week later. Even the stuff that I was really looking forward to, like Jedi Survivor.

I think the main reason is that modern games are just too "safe" and same-y. Like it was mentioned ITT a couple of times already, there's just no creativity or risk-taking in modern gaming anymore and that's why it's so boring.

No wonder VR games get me so pumped because that's literally the only space in modern gaming where developers are actually experimenting and taking risks with new and exciting stuff.
How is vr gaming taking risks? The gameplay there seems even more downgraded compared to aaa drivel
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
How is vr gaming taking risks? The gameplay there seems even more downgraded compared to aaa drivel
Do you own any of the VR headsets?

It completely changes the way games are played, to the point where even the most basic shooters feel fresh and exciting, and those types of games only scratch the surface. The are many more games that utilize the format in ways that are only possible in VR, and it's incredibly exciting to discover a game like that because it just does something you've never seen before and in a way that is impossible to experience any other way.
 

hyperbertha

Member
Do you own any of the VR headsets?

It completely changes the way games are played, to the point where even the most basic shooters feel fresh and exciting, and those types of games only scratch the surface. The are many more games that utilize the format in ways that are only possible in VR, and it's incredibly exciting to discover a game like that because it just does something you've never seen before and in a way that is impossible to experience any other way.
The immersion will be fresh at first but soon you'll start demanding more depth in gameplay I think. And I'd like to know what games you think utilise the format outside of gimmicks that get old fast.
 

Hudo

Member
Gaming peaked in 1999 (for me). I mean, look at that fucking shit. 3 of my favorite games of all time were released in that year alone:

Tiberian Sun,
Age of Empires II,
Heroes of Might & Magic III,
Unreal Tournament,
Homeworld,
System Shock 2,
Planescape Torment,
Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike,
Rayman 2,
Freespace 2,
Alpha Centauri
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
The immersion will be fresh at first but soon you'll start demanding more depth in gameplay I think. And I'd like to know what games you think utilise the format outside of gimmicks that get old fast.
That argument is flawed at its core. It's not a gimmick if it forms an integral part of the gameplay loop.

Also, trying to explain VR to someone who's not experienced with it is pretty much like trying to describe music to a deaf person. It's just something that must be experienced firsthand. The perspective and motion controls provide an uncanny sense of immersion and presence within the game, and discovering a title where interaction is more than just mere shooting feels amazing every time. It's kinda like when you played your first video games back in the day, and kept discovering new things that you could do in them. There's just that giddy, childlike glee to it all.

But anyway, if you really want some examples, here are some games I've played in the past year or so:
  • There's a stealth action game inspired by Metal Gear Solid where you can, for instance, interrogate enemies by pointing a gun at them and asking questions using a microphone.
  • I've played a couple of space RTS games where I controlled my fleet in a manner similar of the movie Ender's Game. By gesturing with my arms, I could zoom the camera out to get a better tactical view, move around my ships like toys to plot flight paths and target enemies, and then zoom back in to watch the mayhem up close.
  • Then there's fully modded Skyrim, where you can interact with everything and see how everything (and everyone) reacts to your actions without any collision clipping. On my first try, I grabbed the carriage driver by his leg, pulled him off, and smashed his face in with my fists, all controlled through physical gestures. I then entered Whiterun and accidentally groped blacksmith lady, which she wasn't very happy with, lol. After that, I went into a tavern and got served some food an ale by the waiter. The level of immersion is amazing.
  • How about strapping on the PSVR 2 headset and sitting behind my G29 racing wheel to play Gran Turismo 7? Honestly it's the closest I ever felt to driving a car without actually driving a car (and yeah, I am a driver in IRL too so I do have a pretty good frame of reference).
  • Star Wars Squadrons? The first time I flew by a Star Destroyer, I had literal goosebumps, completely blown away by its immense, epic scale. The ability to glance around the cockpit and view enemy fighters through the canopy also completely changes the way you can do dogfighting.
  • And even with the basic shooters I mentioned earlier, VR adds a whole other dimension to the gameplay. Reloading weapons manually, leaning from behind cover, crouching, and throwing grenades - all done through full-body motion - all of that guarantees that you will never look at regular first person shooters the same way again. I recently played through Half-Life 2 in VR, and it completely transformed the game's pacing and combat. I was amazed by how well it adapted to the format and provided a fresh experience, even though I played through that game like 20 times before.
 

Gandih42

Member
You'd think so, but then why the only recent games that I bothered to replay after finishing them for the first times were both remakes of much older games (Dead Space and Resi 4)? I reject the notion that it's just about the nostalgia, because it's not just about replaying the games that I used to enjoy. I constantly seek out things that I haven't played before, even from older generations, and somehow only the older games seem to truly excite me anymore, even those that I'm playing for the first time. That and VR gaming, just because it's so unique that it feels like rediscovering video games all over again. Meanwhile, with most modern games I will usually play them once and forget about them a week later. Even the stuff that I was really looking forward to, like Jedi Survivor.

I think the main reason is that modern games are just too "safe" and same-y. Like it was mentioned ITT a couple of times already, there's just no creativity or risk-taking in modern gaming anymore and that's why it's so boring.

No wonder VR games get me so pumped because that's literally the only space in modern gaming where developers are actually experimenting and taking risks with new and exciting stuff.

While nostalgia obviously plays a role, I'm also of the opinion its dismissive to justify such things as "just" nostalgia. Those are remakes of not just older games, but games that were legendarily great (which is usually the case with remakes, otherwise why bother?). So it makes sense they will perform extremely well when competing against new games, nostalgia or otherwise. Other remakes of less great games (Kingdom of Amalur for instance) probably won't spark the same feeling of decline in gaming.

I think the "safe" arguments holds water a lot of the time, primarily when it comes to Open World, Loot-Based, Checkpoint-Map kind of stuff (Hogwarts certainly falls under this category). The Destiny 2 Loot/Menu system is probably one of the most overused off-putting game elements to me these days (extreme case of same-y'ness for me). And as everyone is saying, it makes logical sense of the context of the types of budgets AAA games tend to have. That excuse doesn't really help anyone who's feeling let down though.

I'd still argue that you just have to dig a little to still find games that are creative, innovative, take risks etc., but as someone who has yet to try VR, that is also where I image you'll find the most creativity. If not just for the fact that the control scheme is so fundamentally different. Perhaps part of problem with "unexciting" games is the fact that we've been playing and controlling them for the same way for 20+ years. Even though we can do infinitely more things on the screen today, the analogue experience is largely the same. I can only imagine VR being a complete paradigm shift (even if most games are relatively "basic" in terms of gameplay).
 
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Erebus

Member
For most people, it's the one they grew up with. 6th gen doesn't come close to 4th gen.
I was gonna post this. Nostalgia and memories have a significant impact in this context, as we often associate the games we play with specific phases of our lives.

I agree with the OP, although my perspective may be influenced by the fact that I grew up during that time period. However, there are numerous merits to that era that can objectively withstand scrutiny. For instance, from a technical standpoint, the leap from the previous generation was substantial and evident in every aspect of the games. Another significant advantage was that developers did not require excessive time or astronomical budgets to produce quality games.
 
PS360 for me. Those games can be enjoyed on original hardware today without looking really terrible, despite bloom, blur, low res shadows, botched fog, framerate, and not actual HD fidelity. PS2 era stuff at least needs a good upscaler to not look like utter garbage, while most games even then do. The games fundamental ideas and core mechanics still were evolving, the standards we have today were set mostly with PS360. So going from PS3 to PS5 barely feels different, while eg. the Red Faction PS4 remaster with manual saves and inverted controls feels like a whole different older gen, we luckily evolved out of.
 

Elog

Member
You are growing up - that is all. Hard to beat first experiences of anything good unfortunately.
 
PS360 for me. Those games can be enjoyed on original hardware today without looking really terrible, despite bloom, blur, low res shadows, botched fog, framerate, and not actual HD fidelity. PS2 era stuff at least needs a good upscaler to not look like utter garbage, while most games even then do. The games fundamental ideas and core mechanics still were evolving, the standards we have today were set mostly with PS360. So going from PS3 to PS5 barely feels different, while eg. the Red Faction PS4 remaster with manual saves and inverted controls feels like a whole different older gen, we luckily evolved out of.
Xbox and GC still look good today because they ran games with progressive scan.

Most PS2 games did not.

A lot of Xbox/GC games ran at higher resolutions and usually 60 FPS.

Something the PS2 had issues achieving.
 
You are growing up - that is all. Hard to beat first experiences of anything good unfortunately.
I started with the SNES, and owned everything since.

The SNES gen literally being 2D only is why I don't consider it among the best.

Best 2D console?

Maybe

Best console ever?

No way

PS2/Xbox/GC/DC (gen 6), was the best due to everything it brought forth over the past gen.

Xbox Live for example, was not new and existed in 2002. It worked incredibly well (voice chat in every game, friends list, etc), and was feature rich. Literally laid the blue print which consoles today follow.

It's not like today where the PS4 and PS5 are essentially the same thing, overall.

Jump to gen 6 was mind blowing, heck even the 360 generation with the jump to HD was massive (to a lesser extent though).
 
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Naked Lunch

Member
I agree with the overall sentiments - but I would place the gen forward one and say gaming peaked in the 360 era - in combination with all that came before it.
It was all downhill from there.
Theres still flashes here and there - but modern gaming has mostly been a miss since.

Good thing theres nothing stopping you from revisiting, or discovering for the first time - those 30 or so years of gaming from those eras.
Im currently deep diving into PC Engine CDs vast history. What a treat...
 

cireza

Member
Best generation was 16 bits generation as far as I am concerned.

Yeah, and look at how "great" the FMV experiment panned out. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Maybe try playing Lunar Eternal Blue on Sega-CD ? Timeless masterpiece, and the videos are fantastic and look better than 99% of the stuff we got on 32 bits, with their shitty codecs.
 
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WoJ

Member
I have always been lukewarm on the 6th generation although I understand why people think so highly of it. Personally I think 7th gen is better. The number of new IPs and refinements we got on gameplay mechanics and open world games on console were mind blowing for me. I also have never really bought into the "everything was a gray and brown military shooter" narrative of that gen. That was certainly a part of that gen, a big part, but there was a ton of variety.

My biggest problem since 7th gen is that gaming feels like it hasn't taken a big leap forward in game design. As others have said everything now is rehashing franchises and formulas and much of the creativity in the big budget space is limited or gone.
 

Lupin25

Member
We haven’t moved the needle much from 7th Gen. These games were all the peak gaming with mostly derivative sequels since.

CoD: MW2/Black Ops
Halo 3/ODST/Reach - personal favs
Far Cry 3 - still the best iteration
GTA 4-5
The Elder Scrolls 4/5
Portal Collection
Fallout 3/New Vegas
Dragon Age: Origins
Super Mario Galaxy
TLOZ: Twilight Princess
Xenoblade Chronicles
Borderlands 2
Mass Effect Trilogy
The Walking Dead/The Wolf Among Us
Gears of War 1-3
Prey
Dead Space
Minecraft
Dark Souls/Demon’s Souls
Killzone 2
The Last of Us
Burnout Paradise
Mortal Kombat (2011)
LittleBigPlanet
Persona 4
Batman Arkam Trilogy
LA Noire
Uncharted 2-3
God of War 3
Red Dead Redemption
BioShock Trilogy
Max Payne 3
NBA 2K11
 
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