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[S0ULZB0URNE]

When and by how much do you expect it to go up? I do think it will increase but I expect them to keep it like it is for the next year or so.

Depends on the actual growth/adoption rate ie not fabricated GP numbers and only MS knows what those numbers are.

I would guess it's whenever they got a certain number of steady paying customers ie non $1 3 month subs.

 

[Sushen]

Gamepass is great if you don't intend to keep the games and like to switch it around trying things. Obviously if you buy games you like, it makes little sense for you.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

GamePass may not be profitable now. That's up to Xbox to worry about, not me as a customer. As long as I can play games on the cheap I don't care about their profit margins for the service.

It is mildly interesting to know if the service is generating some sort of profit but that's where the interest should stop.

 

[nowhat]

Ads where, exactly? If I were forced to watch an ad before playing each game, I would stop using the service even if it were free.

You're asking the wrong person, I detest ads as well. The marketeers will find a way though, they always do. Just that when I think about my time with Spotify, it's like the classical "first time is free" drug pusher kind of thing, and by now going cold turkey would be if not impossible, then at least very painful.

I started using Spotify (this sounds like an NA testimonial) when it was still in invite-only public beta. Being a student at the time, any non-essential monthly expense was out of the question. But as soon as it was feasible, I became a subscriber. Since then if I was shopping for AV equipment, I never went specifically out my way to look for a device that supports Spotify - but if I'd have to pay just a bit more to get one that did, that's what I went for. A little later, I thought a third stream could be useful - they come up with a family plan, it's just a bit more so why not (I give the rest of the streams to few friends who are not that well off, a form of charity I suppose). And it's been boiling a frog*) ever since, they keep gradually increasing the price, but I'm so vested in the ecosystem that it would be hard to leave. So having an ad-supported free tier could be a great/devious way to lure in new users.

*) In case someone doesn't know this, it's a nice story and all, but also an urban legend. Of course the frog will GTFO once it gets too hot - it may be a frog, but not an idiot.

 

[Three]

As for psnow, I don't care about library of such a service from any company. Even if they added all games on platform, I wouldn't stream.

For the millionth time it seems they are not getting this through to people. PSNow lets you download games exactly like gamepass.

 

[RaZoR No1]

Is DJ Khaled himself even aware, that he is the biggest 9th Gen meme?

 

[Duchess]

So, this means that Starfield, Elder Scrolls, and Fallout are all coming to PS5, then? Good, good

 

[ANIMAL1975]

You guys are so hang on to this stupid fight that everyone's missing the true beauty of the thread _ Tom Warrior called out by other Ms fanboys for stating that GP is not profitable

 

[Kerotan]

Why did people ever deny this? It was so obvious from day 1.

 

[DrAspirino]

Game Pass is profitable - Me​

At least for me it is. I haven't spent a single dollar for games in months. You have to be brain-dead as a consumer to not love such a deal. I don't care if Microsoft loses money. Better them than me

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

4. Each and every game that is not on gamepass (99% of games) is a gamepass competition. It's so different how we consume games from shows and movies. A gamer can play a game or two for months if he is so hooked in that game and he wants nothing else to play.

Unlike in movies and shows, a person subscribed to Netflix would have no problem watching and paying for a movie in the cinema for 3 hours (pre and post covid) while still subscribed to the Netflix. He might even have a separate TV streaming service aside from Netflix. He will still get his money's worth. He can binge watch a show or two for 15 hours throughout the month and it would still be worth it.

Now for games, what value would a 10,000 AAA games for $10 would give a gamer if all he wants to play is GTA6 online? of Fifa? or Genshin Impact? or Fortnite? or COD Warzone? for months if not for years with occasional game or two every 3 months?

5. More and more free-to-play games are coming.

I agree with these points. You can give me 1000 A and AA games each month for $1, but that has no value on me if I just want to play Ratchet and Clank or Returnal, or, god forbid, the latest COD that month. We all have limited time each day, I want to spend my very limited time with stuff I really want to play. Or the very best games out there. 99.9% of games aren't on Gamepass, so it's unlikely anything on there is these select titles I'm willing to waste my precious time on.

 

[Derktron]

Serious question, then when does Gamepass get profitable for Microsoft, does Microsoft expect the service to get like Disney Plus, or Netflix, or even Hulu? This mindset scares me if that is the case, they should not have that type of mindset if it comes out to be that way.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is DJ Khaled himself even aware, that he is the biggest 9th Gen meme?

Someone should tag him on twitter or the like.

 

[demigod]

Everyone knows this.

Every Sony fan knew this.
Jez and every xbox fan believed it was profitable.
Reality sucks doesn't it?

 

[Ozzie666]

The long game, I don't know what the magic subscription number is, but I am sure Microsoft knows. It might take 5, 10, 15 years to get there. Who knows?
So not surprised its not profitable at the moment. I think we can all be confident they have a plan, all of of which we haven't seen yet. X-Cloud, Services, Streaming are just the beginning.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

We been knew! Only the delusional GP Mafia thinks it's profitable with their made-up numbers.

I have it for 1$ until 2024. That reminds me I still have codes to top up every week since I'm maxed out lel

 

[Allandor]

Of course it isn't profitable so far. Such services are meant to be used by million of subscribers. And on the other hand they invest into xcloud. And while investing so much money in it, it can't be profitable.

 

[Raonak]

It always seemed obvious that it wasn't profitable, or else it would be copied by others.

 

[John Wick]

And yet MS still think it's worth investing 7 billion buying Bethesda.

MS think a lot of things are worth sinking big money into. We'll see if it works out for them

 

[John Wick]

I'm not the least shocked by this claim, especially after reading countless people explaining you can sub for the price of gold plus a dollar. And based on the current direction / efforts of MS, I don't think its (claimed) lack of profitability at this time matters at all with respect to the life of the service. It is not going anywhere, at least not anytime soon, but I do expect the narrative will be changing from best value to a premium service on console (with a premium price to match), because I doubt MS wants to take a loss over the lifespan of the Series S/X.

I'm expecting it to be treated as a premium service eventually, because I remain skeptical that casuals will want to pay what it costs when its really pumping out new gen content the casuals want. Year 1 of next GP will have cost $180 (give or take) before Halo ships, and only 1/2 of that game will require a sub or purchase because MP is free (I think anyway). That's a lot to charge for little (if you want new gen games), so I fully expect the price to rise once the pipeline includes even a handful of big Series X first party games per year. How much is TBD, but that aborted Gold price hike cannot be ignored. Nor can I ignore how they thought of Gold first, charged me a couple hundred to upgrade my 360 storage, or now charge me a subscription for office when I used to buy it every few years.

I really do hope I am wrong, and that after 2-3 years this service lives up to the hype. I'd love to save money while still playing the games I want the most. But I am extremely skeptical that MS will take a loss after the first couple years of this gen, and that makes me believe it will be pitched as a premium product, with a premium price, within a couple years.

You can bet your bottom dollar the prices will sky rocket once this is well established. MS will not take a loss forever. With GPU your not only getting Xbox but PC, streaming and EA.

 

[IDappa]

Shouldn't this be in the gamepass thread?.

 

[Batiman]

I would assume MS are looking long term. With all the money they’ve spent since it’s launched I’d figure their losing big money as of now. I thought this was the consensus

 

[megreotsugua]

I agree with these points. You can give me 1000 A and AA games each month for $1, but that has no value on me if I just want to play Ratchet and Clank or Returnal, or, god forbid, the latest COD that month. We all have limited time each day, I want to spend my very limited time with stuff I really want to play. Or the very best games out there. 99.9% of games aren't on Gamepass, so it's unlikely anything on there is these select titles I'm willing to waste my precious time on.

It's just the nature of games. The comparison to Netflix is just wrong.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/games-so-good-they-made-you-quit-playing-other-games.1604126/

 

[Heisenberg007]

GamePass may not be profitable now. That's up to Xbox to worry about, not me as a customer. As long as I can play games on the cheap I don't care about their profit margins for the service.

It is mildly interesting to know if the service is generating some sort of profit but that's where the interest should stop.

The problem is that if it is indeed not profitable, one of two things will happen:

1. MS will suspend and abandon Gamepass, or
2. MS will increase the Gamepass cost substantially because it is done subsidizing it and can't afford any more losses.

Both these things will directly affect Gamepass subscribers. Hence, the interest in this topic.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I would assume MS are looking long term. With all the money they’ve spent since it’s launched I’d figure their losing big money as of now. I thought this was the consensus

Not really. A sizeable percentage of Xbox and GP fans think that Gamepass is profitable.

In fact, a week or two ago, Jez Cordon said that Gamepass is profitable. When asked, if it is profitable why doesn't MS releases numbers, Jez said that if they released numbers, Sony will learn the details and will use that information to build their own Gamepass service (!). And that's after the MLB deal, by the way, which was developed by Sony.

And that's a journalist by the way, who thinks that Sony is desperately seeking Gamepass data from Microsoft regarding how much MS paid a company to bring their game on Gamepass, so they can emulate a subscription service that doesn't make anyone any profits. So if that's what an MS-leaning "journalist" thinks, you can imagine whatever fantasies hardcore fanboys might believe in.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Not really. A huge percentage of Xbox and GP fans think that Gamepass is profitable.

Really? And how many people is this who claim GP is profitable?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Really? And how many people is this who claim GP is profitable?

I had already edited it to more appropriate words because I knew there will be comments like this

Anyway, you can check Jez's tweets and the replies there, and the threads that sprung up on the web after that tweet to see there are many people who think Gamepass might actually be profiitable and very close to being profitable

 

[longdi]

You guys are so hang on to this stupid fight that everyone's missing the true beauty of the thread _ Tom Warrior called out by other Ms fanboys for stating that GP is not profitable

who is calling out who about GP?

Most MS fans know GP is sustainable for MS. Stop trying to make a meal outta nothing.

Heisenberg007 doing his best to generate 'concerns'

 

[Grimchest]

ImPoSsIbLe

Don’t you mean ImPASSible

 

[Batiman]

Not really. A sizeable percentage of Xbox and GP fans think that Gamepass is profitable.

In fact, a week or two ago, Jez Cordon said that Gamepass is profitable. When asked, if it is profitable why doesn't MS releases numbers, Jez said that if they released numbers, Sony will learn the details and will use that information to build their own Gamepass service (!). And that's after the MLB deal, by the way, which was developed by Sony.

And that's a journalist by the way, who thinks that Sony is desperately seeking Gamepass data from Microsoft regarding how much MS paid a company to bring their game on Gamepass, so they can emulate a subscription service that doesn't make anyone any profits. So if that's what an MS-leaning "journalist" thinks, you can imagine whatever fantasies hardcore fanboys might believe in.

I’m not talking about Jez. I really don’t see people here arguing gamepass is profitable. Most people don’t care and just defend the service itself. Though there are people that say it’s sustainable. Which I’ll agree with in thinking long term

 

[Heisenberg007]

who is calling out who about GP?

Most MS fans know GP is sustainable for MS. Stop trying to make a meal outta nothing.

Heisenberg007 doing his best to generate 'concerns'

No, I'm not generating "concerns". I'm raising genuine, logical points, because I don't believe that GP makes profits or that Gamepass can be a sustainable and profitable business model for Xbox, in comparison to Sony's or Nintendo's. That's my opinion. My opinion is also constantly validated by financial reports of all three companies.

If you disagree -- which you can -- I'd suggest coming up with hard data to counter my argument.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I’m not talking about Jez. I really don’t see people here arguing gamepass is profitable. Most people don’t care and just defend the service itself. Though there are people that say it’s sustainable. Which I’ll agree with in thinking long term

Because we are in a thread that says "Gamepass is not profitable". In other threads & tweets, where Jez said that Gamepass is profitable, there were many people who were repeating the same

Anyway, I do agree that most people do not think that GP is profitable, but my point is that there are still some (very hardcore fanboys) who think otherwise.

 

[Little Chicken]

Who cares, just keep showering me with sweet games.

It won't see profitability for years, but I'd wager games like the next Fallout and Elder Scrolls will help get it there.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Let us keep this simple for now -

• Direct revenue from GP being profitable isn't exposed or even tested in the real world for long enough for any intelligent statements
  • What did it actually cost to get GP up and running? Dev, marketing/branding, some Azure instances, platform changes, staff time in motion, testing, a little collab with studios/devs/publishers. Generally pretty low cost for the GP platform tech segment.
  • What commercial agreements are in place with publishers, studios devs etc? We know they can be wildly varied e.g. direct number sales, per active user, investment up front over % share etc. Phil's been pretty open about making things a win win with flexibility.
• Indirect revenue isn't exposed for any intelligent statements about GP profits
  • We know from GP devs and games already part of GP that there is more sales of games through GP exposure, more DLC bought, more MTX, more sales, more players from GP on a wide variety of games. This equates to more revenue and profit on the bottom line of Xbox/MS, of which record numbers are being produced.
  • We also know from GP devs and games there are more viral sales from players outside of GP buying to play with friends or on friends recommendations or reviews/content sharing etc.
• So why do people say it's not profitable yet?
  • Investments such as Zenimax and associated IPs are big numbers to recuperate over time.
  • Those investments are NOT tied to just GP; there are game sales, licensing, merchandising and more where such revenue and profitability need to be factored in.

Clearly it's growth phase for now but this rhetoric it's not a profitable venture or worthy of investment over time is a false economy and generally a pretty poor statement to make for now.

 

[longdi]

No, I'm generating "concerns". I'm raising genuine, logical points, because I don't believe that GP makes profits or that Gamepass can be a sustainable and profitable business model for Xbox, in comparison to Sony's or Nintendo's. That's my opinion. My opinion is also constantly validated by financial reports of all three companies.

If you disagree -- which you can -- I'd suggest coming up with hard data to counter my argument.

I dont have to disagree.
The master chiefs at MS already does it for me.
They believe it is sustainable, profitable and continues to invest in GP. The service has immense user satisfaction, growing and growing, more games are being added. We are all happy. What's the problem?

It's like why concern now that sony is selling ps5 hardware at a loss, when ps4 was not. oh dear, if sony cant hit the same numbers, how will they recoup or sustain

 

[DenchDeckard]

I couldn’t give a flying fuck if it’s profitable or not, just keep the games coming MS.

Gamepass is awesome, I couldn’t care what’s going on behind the scenes. Just give me games to play.

 

[Leyasu]

nvm

 

[yazenov]

Now you know why Microsoft hides their numbers in their financials and only disclose revenue. Shit was obvious.

 

[geary]

Why is not this thread closed yet and the discussion moved to the Gamepass thread?

 

[Team Andromeda]

LOL at this threat. Netflicks made a profit yet?. Xbox is bringing in tons of cash for MS and Gamepass is growing all the time and been a huge winner for MS in Lockdown even the SONY fans know it: just desperate to try and find anything to knock Gamepas with.

 

[Kumomeme]

I was told GamePass actually increases game sales by knowledgeable people on NeoGAF.

some knowledgeable people on NeoGaf also used to tell that GamePass allow for innovative, ground breaking game design.

 

[ZywyPL]

"But hey, I know nothing." - I know nothing, but here's my insight (not backed up by any data of course) - modern journalism 101...

So why do people say it's not profitable yet?

Because many of the self-proclaimed "enthusiasts" here have actually little-to-no understanding how the industry works, they cannot see past the sales numbers alone, nevermind that they alone can generate a loss instead of profit (like PS3 for example), it's all about the imaginary brand wars where simply more=better, which does not illustrate the actual financial results.

It's hard (impossible?) to say if it's profitable or not without any type of data, which only MS has - simple math says that 23M users times 10$ generates 230MLM each month, ~2,8B a year, but then again, we don't know how many people are paying monthly fees and how many used the 1$ convention, and from those who do pay monthly how many are the regular 10$ subs and how many 15$ GPUs. So nobody except MS knows what the real revenue is to start with. Now if we move to profits, again, we don't know what the deals are for 3rd party games, how much MS pays the devs/publishers, what are the terms, is it $ per download or some larger sum up front.

But the thing is, the subs alone are just the beginning, GP is in a way a platform, just like the consoles sold at a loss are, from there on people do spend money on the DLC/MTX for the GP games, or even buy the games they like, or spend money on games that are not on GP instead, plus DLC/MTX to those games, the bottom line is, once people jump on GP they jump on MS ecosystem, so whenever they spend money on games or add-on at least some part of it goes directly to MS' pocket. And as as we can clearly (?) see from MS' financial reports it does work for them, quite well.

Disney+ is also not profitable yet. Like many other Services. Hell isn't google constantly saying yt is barely or not at all profitable?

Bastard are using Adblock instead of buying YT Premium, that's basically piracy!!! ;D

 

[ANIMAL1975]

who is calling out who about GP?

Most MS fans know GP is sustainable for MS. Stop trying to make a meal outta nothing.

The guy in the tweet? It's right there in the OP,...
guess you didn't read it and came running into the fight hey

 

[longdi]

The guy in the tweet? It's right there in the OP,...
guess you didn't read it and came running into the fight hey

so 1 random unknown twitbag and yet none of us in GAF, mkay

 

[Redlight]

Why is not this thread closed yet and the discussion moved to the Gamepass thread?

What is going on? New Gamepass threads are allowed but only if negative?

 

[xiseerht]

Statements like that sound way worse than what it really is. This is pretty standard for any new and young sub service. But and the end of the day. MS still made more money than they spent. That is why the stock holders are very happy.

 

[Calverz]

To the haters:

 

[BigLee74]

I thought these threads were banned? I mean, look at the tag applied to the OP!

Absolutely chock-full of the regular Sony crew too!

 

[MonarchJT]

well perfectly normal? the service is growing and will soon become. Meanwhile Xbox users enjoying games that in other platforms costs lot more .

 

[Pedro Motta]

Why do it matter to me as a user if it’s profitable or not

Because I think you like games, and Gamepass will destroy gaming as a whole and the lives of the developers. Netflix destroyed the quality in films, and filmakers are getting payed shit for their movies, Spotify also pays shit to artist for their music. It will happen the same with Gamepass, devs and publishers will not invest more time and money to make better quality games. Everything will be mid-tier Gamepasss filler, like Netfflix today.