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Forza Horizon 5 Next Gen performance targets revealed. RT only utilized in Forzavista

NEbeast

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I wish the people scrutinizing and spreading FUD, would do the same for all platforms, including their preferred ones. It's silly to see some lap up everything about *a game*, yet shit on this one? Keep the same energy at all times ppl.


With that being said, this game is gonna be a day one, if not earlier. I thought Forza Horizon 4 looked amazing, but holy shit this is gonna be 🔥🔥🔥🔥🚒🚒
northwestern GIF


The game does look good though.
 
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Kangx

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Oh so what you are saying is that the 30fps mode is going to look even better than what we have seen, hot damn!.
Yes, this could be true, and i am not denying this if what I suspected is right. The game lower the resolution to keep the same detail as the 4k 30 fps.
 

DeepEnigma

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To be fair, i'd always pick 60fps over 30fps the vast majority of the time.
There is no to be fair... THIS IS WAR!

Agreed, but silly how the narratives shift in the wind or don't get the same scrutiny depending on brand. All do this.
 

assurdum

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that's not what is shown and said in the video.
the video clearly states the reflections ars below quarter res, and brought up to quarter res through CBR

he shows that the edges in the reflections are quarter res by counting the pixels, and then in motion they also show combing artifacts.

"moving edges within the reflections themselves have sawtooth lines in them, much like checkerboarding, which makes me wonder if we're actually looking at something that is lower than quarter resolution for reflections, so a checkerboarded or interlaced quarter resolution"

how can you come to the conclusion that they ar reconstructed up to 4k when it is clearly demonstrated in the video that they aren't?

now I really think I'm in an alternate mirror universe where logic is reversed...
The funny thing neither DF ever claimed clearly a quarter of resolution reconstructed via CBR or whatever. It sound like they said more or less the same thing of NXgamer to me. And I explained how incredibly bad would be 1080cbr in a 4k output. You use WD Legion as example but WD is 1440p. 1080cbr has perfectly sense for raytracing reflections at such res but still is incredibly fuzzy on console, it's notorious to everyone. Why persist to spread something isn't it exactly unequivocally as you tried argue, it's really absurd, the logic said otherwise. And you act as you know more about it even to Nxgamer, come on now. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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SlimySnake

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WTF 30fps, it looks nice, but not even as detailed as a game like the new R&C by example.


Probably photo mode.

Yup the game in the video definitely runs at 60, maybe it's on PC... That would make MS the most deceptive they have ever been. I know the game is on PC as well, but one should expect them to have the decency to present xbox games that run on xbox "hardware" at the very least.

Or it's a simple typo and they will correct the error—However, if this is not a typo this gives us a hint of what to expect from the xboxes performance when they run games that actually display "next-gen graphics".
The game is 60 fps on both the series s and series x.

It's native 4k 30 fps on the series x which means it will easily run at 1440p 60 fps. Maybe some downgrade here and there like Ratchet, but i highly doubt we will need that since it's not taxing the CPU or doing ray tracing. Should be a straight resolution drop to 1440p with same visual settings like we saw with the mid gen and base consoles upgrades last gen.

For Series S, it's 1080p 30 fps. So 720p 60 fps on that console.

The game is on PC so if their feed was native 4k 60 fps then thats not deceptive since we have several GPUs that can run this game at 2x the Xbox resolution. The 23 tflops 6900xt, the 3080Ti and 3090.
 
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Reindeer

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I swear some of you are so defensive and delusional. We are in a technical performance Target thread, are we not? We are discussing about the technicality about a game. Have I ever talk about game look?
But you're focusing on variables you don't know, so what is the real point of such discussion? Like I said many times, we have no idea about how much performance headroom they have when locking the game at 30fps. To assume that they will have to sacrifice a lot is baseless at this point because they may very well be very close to 60fps when locking the game at 30. All of this is unknown and discussing it is pointless, except maybe make some people hopeful that the game will look bad or something.
 
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Stuart360

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The game is 60 fps on both the series s and series x.

It's native 4k 30 fps on the series x which means it will easily run at 1440p 60 fps. Maybe some downgrade here and there like Ratchet, but i highly doubt we will need that since it's not taxing the CPU or doing ray tracing. Should be a straight resolution drop to 1440p with same visual settings like we saw with the mid gen and base consoles upgrades last gen.

For Series S, it's 1080p 30 fps. So 720p 60 fps on that console.

The game is on PC so if their feed was native 4k 60 fps then thats not deceptive since we have several GPUs that can run this game at 2x the Xbox resolution. The 23 tflops 6900xt, the 3080Ti and 3090.
A dev on Twitter just did a tweet confirming performance modes are the same as 30fps modes.
60fps modes probably lower some settings, like lods, and we can see some pop in on the gameplay.
 

Kangx

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But you're focusing on variables you don't know, so what is the real point of such discussion? Like I said many times, we have no idea about how much performance headroom they have when locking the game at 30fps, so to assume that they will have to sacrifice a lot is ridiculous because they be very close to 60fps when locking the game at 30. All of this is unknown and discussing it is pointless, except make some people hopeful that the game will look bad or something.
You are the one that not following logic here. Iam assuming this is base on logic and reasonable assumption not like you. Take a look at SlimySnake post above you.
 

DaGwaphics

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The game is 60 fps on both the series s and series x.

It's native 4k 30 fps on the series x which means it will easily run at 1440p 60 fps. Maybe some downgrade here and there like Ratchet, but i highly doubt we will need that since it's not taxing the CPU or doing ray tracing. Should be a straight resolution drop to 1440p with same visual settings like we saw with the mid gen and base consoles upgrades last gen.

For Series S, it's 1080p 30 fps. So 720p 60 fps on that console.

The game is on PC so if their feed was native 4k 60 fps then thats not deceptive since we have several GPUs that can run this game at 2x the Xbox resolution. The 23 tflops 6900xt, the 3080Ti and 3090.
The creative director on the project is saying performance mode is 4k/60 (XSX) and 1080p/60 (XSS). Unless someone has faked that tweet. 🤷‍♂️
 
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The game is on PC so if their feed was native 4k 60 fps then thats not deceptive since we have several GPUs that can run this game at 2x the Xbox resolution. The 23 tflops 6900xt, the 3080Ti and 3090.
I will not reash the rest, it makes sense to have a "compromised" 60fps mode.

But selling a game to console gamers with video feed from a PC is deceptive.
 

Stuart360

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You are the one that not following logic here. Iam assuming this is base on logic and reasonable assumption not like you. Take a look at SlimySnake post above you.
You have to remember that the Forza games go for locked framerates, literally. Tech sites have literally tested 1 hour long sections of the games and had zero dropped frames.
That means that XSX could be running the game at 4k/60, max detail, but hovers around the 50fps mark. And that would mean either drop the details to get that 60fps, or do 2 modes, a 30fps mode and 60fps mode.
 

Reindeer

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You are the one that not following logic here. Iam assuming this is base on logic and reasonable assumption not like you. Take a look at SlimySnake post above you.
And he thought that it will be 1440p60 (which isn't the case as we know now), but how's that logical assumption when Ratchet only has to drop to dynamic 1800p when playing the game at 60. This assumption that every game has to drop resolution massively and sacrifice a lot of visuals is baseless as it depends on game to game basis. It all depends on how much performance headroom they have while running the game in 30fps mode. Not sure how many times I have to repeat that.
 
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jose4gg

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I will ask the same question again, WHERE DOES THE VIDEO SAYS IT IS RUNNING ON A XBOX SERIES X?
 

SlimySnake

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Devs already confirmed on Twitter that there are 4K60 and 1080p60 modes for X and S.
The creative director on the project is saying performance mode is 4k/60 (XSX) and 1080p/60 (XSS). Unless someone has faked that tweet. 🤷‍♂️
Ah I didnt see that. Interesting. I wonder what settings they will tone down to get 2x more performance. Unless they run the Xbox One versions without the fancy trackside detail, I just dont see how the 1080p 30 fps series s version becomes 1080p 60 fps.

But selling a game to console gamers with video feed from a PC is deceptive.

I just cannot agree. EVERY third party multiplat game ever shown at these conferences runs on a PC. Doesnt matter if its a Sony conference or MS. All AC game demos ran on PC. It's just how it is. Both Sony and MS now make PC games. MS releases these games day one on PC, they have every right to show off the PC version. Sony doesnt do day one releases just yet so if they did that then you might have a point but if in a couple of years they have PC versions releasing simultaneously it would not be deceptive to show off the best version of the game. They exclusively showed PS4 Pro versions after that console came out.
 
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Does RT even matter when people initially though it was photography?

RT is just one of ways to make graphic nice and realistic and not every game have to use RT for next gen graphic IMO.
Why people think that it's impressive? Look at the foliage. That grass is awful. No SSAO. There is a lots of pop-in (shadows, mountains) if you watch the video carefully. I mean it looks good, but leap from FH4 not that big and mostly comes from different location.
 
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Riky

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There might be a huge amount of headroom in the 30fps mode for all we know, maybe it would run in the fifties if unlocked.
So the sacrifices might not be as big as people think.
 
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Reindeer

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Ah I didnt see that. Interesting. I wonder what settings they will tone down to get 2x more performance. Unless they run the Xbox One versions without the fancy trackside detail, I just dont see how the 1080p 30 fps series s version becomes 1080p 60 fps.
Depends how much headroom they have when running in 30fps mode. For example DS remake runs at dynamic 4K with visuals that are near identical to 30fps mode.
 
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SlimySnake

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Depends how much headroom they ahevwhne running in 30fps mode. For example DS remake runs at dynamic 4K with visuals that are near identical to 30fps mode.
They could have more headroom but gonna pushback on the DS remake comparison because its native 4k 30 fps in the fidelity mode and 1440p 60 fps in the performance mode. They could not get this game to run at native 4k 60 fps.
 

jroc74

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I see some say ray tracing is a waste...but its really good in Rift Apart. That and animation is top notch.

I will ask the same question again, WHERE DOES THE VIDEO SAYS IT IS RUNNING ON A XBOX SERIES X?
I am lost...lol. It kinda makes some of these comparisons to other games seem weird now.....
 
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Kangx

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And he thought that it will be 1440p60 (which isn't the case as we know now), but how's that logical assumption when Ratchet only has to drop to dynamic 1800p when playing the game at 60. This assumption that every game has to drop resolution massively and sacrifice a lot of visuals is baseless as it depends on game to game basis. It all depends on how much performance headroom they have while running the game in 30fps mode. Not sure how many times I have to repeat that.
Ratchet main mode have 4k checkerboarding ray tracing, even then ratchet is not entirely locked at native 4k in that mode. I told you. Take a look at demon souls remake. Going from 4k 30 fps to 1440p 60 fps for next gent game is the most logical choice. And why do you have to be so defensive if what they are showing running at 1440p 60 performance mode. It does look great does it not? Infact, John from DF even call one of the best looking next gent game just like demon soul remake which running 1440p 60fps. So you guy was telling me resolution doesn't matter that much if it look this good, and now you are raving about resolution. Oh boy.
 

SlimySnake

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I see some say ray tracing is a waste...but its really good in Rift Apart. That and animation is top notch.
Waste in a game like this and Horizon forbidden west. Where would ever see reflections in a forest or a desert or a mountain or in a city made of bricks.

Amazing in games like Ratchet and and Spiderman where there is metallic and glass architecture everywhere.

They could use RT GI to handle their time of day but baking them is fine as well. Remember Horizon uses baked in GI in all 6 of its lighting settings. AC does too. Pretty sure the Forza Horizon devs do the same. The game wouldnt look this good if it wasnt.
 

BigLee74

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Pretty sure you will need to wait for engine changes made for the new upcoming Forza Motorsports before you will see RT in Horizon gameplay. So, maybe the next one.

Absolutely not a game breaker though. Horizon already makes great use of a variety of techniques for convincing reflections as it stands.
 

Kangx

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The creative director on the project is saying performance mode is 4k/60 (XSX) and 1080p/60 (XSS). Unless someone has faked that tweet. 🤷‍♂️
It doesn't tell us much really. I swear we have learn nothing since assassin creed debacle and many games that follow that. We fall from the same shit. Yes, even from the developer themselves. They even put 4k 60fps in the articles. As I stated previously, we use the term 4k 60 fps loosely nowadays.
 

Reindeer

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They could have more headroom but gonna pushback on the DS remake comparison because its native 4k 30 fps in the fidelity mode and 1440p 60 fps in the performance mode. They could not get this game to run at native 4k 60 fps.
You're right, just watched DF video. I remember Bluepoint dev saying it will be dynamic 4K60, I guess they didn't reach that by release.
 

assurdum

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You're right, just watched DF video. I remember Bluepoint dev saying it will be dynamic 4K60, I guess they didn't reach that by release.
Link? Don't remind they never said something like that personally. The only thing I remember it's they said how good it's the temporal injection uses which minimises the difference with the true 4k output.
 
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Reindeer

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Ratchet main mode have 4k checkerboarding ray tracing, even then ratchet is not entirely locked at native 4k in that mode. I told you. Take a look at demon souls remake. Going from 4k 30 fps to 1440p 60 fps for next gent game is the most logical choice. And why do you have to be so defensive if what they are showing running at 1440p 60 performance mode. It does look great does it not? Infact, John from DF even call one of the best looking next gent game just like demon soul remake which running 1440p 60fps. So you guy was telling me resolution doesn't matter that much if it look this good, and now you are raving about resolution. Oh boy.
And who said that Playground isn't using their own upscaling technique that looks indistinguishable from native resolution? So much we don't know and yet everyone already has an opinion.
 
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SenjutsuSage

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Why people think that it's impressive? Look at the foliage. That grass is awful. No SSAO. There is a lots of pop-in (shadows, mountains) if you watch carefully. I mean it looks good, but leap from FH4 not that big and mostly comes from different location.
Awful he says... Watch the below in 4K.




Take all that in and process it. He said awful for a pre-release game still in development that already looks like this. This is console wars to the next level.

This game straight has some of the most lifelike lighting I've ever seen.

Those HDR 12K resolution scans or recordings they did of Mexico's skies, which they then used to create the sky in the game that updates dynamically every frame and gives the entire game its realistic lighting on Series X|S looks simply nuts.
 
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Awful he says... Watch the below in 4K.




Take all that in and process it. He said awful for a pre-release game still in development that already looks like this. This is console wars to the next level.
I watched it many times. I'm also a fan of FH4, but it's exact same graphics as FH4 (which is also much same as FH3), beside volumetric effects (in sand storm), which are very nice. Draw distance is further too, but I didn't expect pop-in. Maybe it's because XBONE is the base.
 

Doncabesa

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Going 4k 30 to 4k 60 is extremely big. Most people would hope they keep the details and lower the resolution, and most developers would keep the image details. Look at their QA, they only mention the 4k 30 and an optional performance mode nothing about 4k 60 fps. I think this developer kinda take the liberty that we are using 4k 60 loosely nowadays and run away with it. I can guarantee you that it will be dynamic 4k with average around 1440p if they want this mode to match the 4k 30 fps, or dial down details and let it look like last generation forza with 4k 60fps. Hell, look at demon souls remake 4k 30 and 1440p 60fps modes. At 1440 60 fps, they even have to tone down the tessellation compare to the 4k 30fps.
He's the creative director of the game, and I'd imagine it's a dynamic 4k for both modes as there is no good reason to not be.
 
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Kangx

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And who said that Playground isn't using their own upscaling technique that looks indistinguishable from native resolution? So much we don't know and yet everyone already has an opinion.
And? I am not disputing this or argue against it. I am infact for more details and lower the resolution and use up scaling technique. But what are we discussing and arguing here? The technicality of the game going from 4k 30fps to 4k 60fps or the look of the game when using difference resolution?
 

Reindeer

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Link? Don't remind they never said something like that personally. The only thing I remember it's they said how good it's the temporal injection uses which minimises the difference with the true 4k output.
Moore explained: “We did two different modes in the game: cinematic mode which is a native 4K, which looks stunning, at 30 frames per second; and performance mode, so you can play a dynamic 4K at 60 frames per second. That is going to give you smoother animation is going to give you a little of that edge [in combat].”


They were targeting dynamic 4K60 but never made it.
 
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SenjutsuSage

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I watched it many times. I'm also a fan of FH4, but it's exact same graphics as FH4 (which is also much same as FH3), beside volumetric effects (in sand storm), which are very nice. Draw distance is further too, but I didn't expect pop-in. Maybe it's because XBONE is the base.

Exact same graphics is a no my friend. Big no. The game has like 5 more months of development as to the pop-in. Even if it stayed in there come release I couldn't care less when it looks this good. That isn't going to ruin the racing experience for me because I spotted foliage coming in on the sides.
 

assurdum

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He's the creative director of the game, and I'd imagine it's a dynamic 4k for both modes as there is no good reason to not be.
At 30 FPS 4k won't be a problem. But for 60 FPS no way will be fixed 4k. 30 FPS wouldn't be there for a reason.
 

jose4gg

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I see some say ray tracing is a waste...but its really good in Rift Apart. That and animation is top notch.


I am lost...lol. It kinda makes some of these comparisons to other games seem weird now.....

THANKS FOR ANSWERING :messenger_tears_of_joy:, really, I see all these people talking about how it's 4k60 in the trailer like at some point they said where it was running, and it might be running on a 3090 because "HEY PC is an XBOX TOO"...
 

Reindeer

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And? I am not disputing this or argue against it. I am infact for more details and lower the resolution and use up scaling technique. But what are we discussing and arguing here? The technicality of the game going from 4k 30fps to 4k 60fps or the look of the game when using difference resolution?
Your whole argument is based on nothing but assumption, I see no.point to it.
 

Reindeer

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THANKS FOR ANSWERING :messenger_tears_of_joy:, really, I see all these people talking about how it's 4k60 in the trailer like at some point they said where it was running, and it might be running on a 3090 because "HEY PC is an XBOX TOO"...
Now run Horizon 4 on Xbox One X in 60fps mode versus same resolution and framerate on PC at max settings and you'll see almost no difference in motion.
 
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Exact same graphics is a no my friend. Big no. The game has like 5 more months of development as to the pop-in. Even if it stayed in there come release I couldn't care less when it looks this good. That isn't going to ruin the racing experience for me because I spotted foliage coming in on the sides.
It's not exact same, but it's only empirical improvements on the same engine.
Pop-in was maybe only distracting thing graphically in FH4, that's why I'm talking about it. Still amazing game.