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Forza Horizon 5 Next Gen performance targets revealed. RT only utilized in Forzavista

Doncabesa

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I wonder how much things will change to have the resolution stay at 4k but the fps go up to 60.
 

skneogaf

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It's a shame there isn't a gran turismo horizon to compare as there isn't anything like on ps5.

Also it's a shame gran turismo is cross generation as I believe forza motorsport is next generation only so it won't be a direct comparison due to forza hopefully being on another level altogether.

I still think gran turismo vs forza motorsport is the best comparison though and is what we like to discuss so hopefully next year both will be out with ray tracing on reflections, shadows and global illumination.
 

Billbofet

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Oct 21, 2018
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It's a shame there isn't a gran turismo horizon to compare as there isn't anything like on ps5.

Also it's a shame gran turismo is cross generation as I believe forza motorsport is next generation only so it won't be a direct comparison due to forza hopefully being on another level altogether.

I still think gran turismo vs forza motorsport is the best comparison though and is what we like to discuss so hopefully next year both will be out with ray tracing on reflections, shadows and global illumination.
I can understand as far as graphics, but Forza, to me, is actually fun.

GT is always technically impressive to me, but boring AF. Forza mainline is like that too, but still slightly more fun than GT.

The open-world really makes FH so entertaining in my mind. I wonder if that somewhat limits what will be pulled off in the more constrained environment that GT and vanilla Forza will have.
 
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Kangx

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I wonder how much things will change to have the resolution stay at 4k but the fps go up to 60.
Going 4k 30 to 4k 60 is extremely big. Most people would hope they keep the details and lower the resolution, and most developers would keep the image details. Look at their QA, they only mention the 4k 30 and an optional performance mode nothing about 4k 60 fps. I think this developer kinda take the liberty that we are using 4k 60 loosely nowadays and run away with it. I can guarantee you that it will be dynamic 4k with average around 1440p if they want this mode to match the 4k 30 fps, or dial down details and let it look like last generation forza with 4k 60fps. Hell, look at demon souls remake 4k 30 and 1440p 60fps modes. At 1440 60 fps, they even have to tone down the tessellation compare to the 4k 30fps.
 
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01011001

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The CB is FROM a 1080p base UP TO 2160P Reconstructed Output. This is an early WIP build though and will likely improve as I think here the RT reflections were just drawn at 1080. These can and will improve as R&C had qtr res Reflections when I was testing pre-launch and then were bumped upto 2160P on day 1 patch AND improved performance in the Fidelity mode.

that's not what is shown and said in the video.
the video clearly states the reflections ars below quarter res, and brought up to quarter res through CBR

he shows that the edges in the reflections are quarter res by counting the pixels, and then in motion they also show combing artifacts.

"moving edges within the reflections themselves have sawtooth lines in them, much like checkerboarding, which makes me wonder if we're actually looking at something that is lower than quarter resolution for reflections, so a checkerboarded or interlaced quarter resolution"

how can you come to the conclusion that they ar reconstructed up to 4k when it is clearly demonstrated in the video that they aren't?

now I really think I'm in an alternate mirror universe where logic is reversed...
 
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Reindeer

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Going 4k 30 to 4k 60 is extremely big. Most people would hope they keep the details and lower the resolution, and most developers would keep the image details. Look at their QA, they only mention the 4k 30 and an optional performance mode nothing about 4k 60 fps. I think this developer kinda take the liberty that we are using 4k 60 loosely nowadays and run away with it. I can guarantee you that it will be dynamic 4k with average around 1440p if they want this mode to match the 4k 30 fps, or dial down details and let it look like last generation forza with 4k 60fps. Hell, look at demon souls remake 4k 30 and 1440p 60fps modes. At 1440 60 fps, they even have to tone down the tessellation compare to the 4k 30fps.
Maybe their 4K30 mode runs closer to 60 like 45fps or something, so they might not need to sacrifice too much from visual side to get to 60. It all depends how much headroom they have with 30fps modes on X and S.
 
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Kangx

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Maybe their 4K30 mode runs closer to 60 like 45fps or something, so they might not need to sacrifice too much from visual side to get to 60. It all depends how much headroom they have with 30fps modes on X and S.
You are making no sense. There is no maybe, if it run nearly 45fps all the time, then they should have drop the 30 fps and optimize for 60 fps mode with some graphics details draw back. But that clearly not the case here. Their main mode is 4k 30 fps. Developers don't leave out too much performance like that especially a competent developers like playground. Look, don't obsess with resolution. This is not magic, it has to sacrifice somewhere and I think mostly is the resolution.
 

Reindeer

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You are making no sense. There is no maybe, if it run nearly 45fps all the time, then they should have drop the 30 fps and optimize for 60 fps mode with some graphics details draw back. But that clearly not the case here. Their main mode is 4k 30 fps. Developers don't leave out too much performance like that especially a competent developers like playground. Look, don't obsess with resolution. This is not magic, it has to sacrifice somewhere and I think mostly is the resolution.
Actually the one making no sense is you, lol. They're giving people an option between having graphics on max or slightly reduced graphics at 60fps. Are you saying they shouldn't give people options? That's a very buzzare take.
 
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Stuart360

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You are making no sense. There is no maybe, if it run nearly 45fps all the time, then they should have drop the 30 fps and optimize for 60 fps mode with some graphics details draw back. But that clearly not the case here. Their main mode is 4k 30 fps. Developers don't leave out too much performance like that especially a competent developers like playground. Look, don't obsess with resolution. This is not magic, it has to sacrifice somewhere and I think mostly is the resolution.
I dont really get your point, we have already seen how good the game looks at 60fps. If the game looks even better at 30fps, then thats just gravy for the people that want that.
 

Kangx

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You know the vids released were 60fps right?. The confernce was streamed in 30fps in most places.
Yes the video released is 60fps, but we don't know alot of thing. We don't know the internal resolution. We don't know if this is running on pc, usually they state captured on series x. This poster ask a reasonable question. What is the sacrifice for 4k 60 fps going from 4k 30fps for series x.
 

Kangx

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I dont really get your point, we have already seen how good the game looks at 60fps. If the game looks even better at 30fps, then thats just gravy for the people that want that.
Their main mode is 4k 30 fps. Think about this. Why would you show your optional mode on the Series X if the 4k 30fps is your main mode. Take a look at demon souls.
 

Reindeer

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Yes the video released is 60fps, but we don't know alot of thing. We don't know the internal resolution. We don't know if this is running on pc, usually they state captured on series x. This poster ask a reasonable question. What is the sacrifice for 4k 60 fps going from 4k 30fps for series x.
We don't know, therefore it's an irrelevant question until we do. People just wanna spread FUD and make others think that the game will look bad at 4K60, even though we don't know how much performance headroom they have with 30fps modes.
 
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Neo_game

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I wonder if it is running native or some sort of resolution scaling is being used. They should use the same settings as fidelity mode and lower the resolution for 60fps. Pretty dumb thing to do if they are using same resolution but compromising gfx detail.
 

Stuart360

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Yes the video released is 60fps, but we don't know alot of thing. We don't know the internal resolution. We don't know if this is running on pc, usually they state captured on series x. This poster ask a reasonable question. What is the sacrifice for 4k 60 fps going from 4k 30fps for series x.
Well we were just told performance mode is 4k/60, the vid is 4k/60, the dev was constantly talking about XSXand XSS. If people know somehting different then the footage is XSX footage.
In fact some of the pop up tells me that LOD has probably been reduced to hit 4k/60. They hide it quite well though i thought.

Like has already been said, just because a game has a 30fps mode, it doesnt mean that 30fps mode is hammering the console constantly. XSX may well run the game at 40-50fps on average with full detail, and a few simple optimizations (like lower LOD), gets them to the full 60.
 
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Stuart360

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Their main mode is 4k 30 fps. Think about this. Why would you show your optional mode on the Series X if the 4k 30fps is your main mode. Take a look at demon souls.
Because it isnt?. Phil has always been about framertae when talking past year or two.
Maybe the difference is so small, that why show the 30fps mode and not 60fps?.

I still dont get what the point of all this is anyway when we have seen what it looks like at 4k/60. The best looking racer, and easily top 3 best looking games so far this gen.
 
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Kangx

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Because it isnt?. Phil has always been about framertae when talking past year or two.
Maybe the difference is so small, that why show the 30fps mode and not 60fps?.

I still dont get what the point of all this is anyway when we have seen what it looks like at 4k/60. The best looking racer, and easily top 3 bets looking games so far this gen.
Relax a bit, I'm not downplay how this game is look. I'm arguing with you with a reasonable and logical take. We are talking about 4k 30 vs 4k 60 here, and no, this is a gigantic gap, and no there no maybe the detail is small. Maybe you are right that the game is running the performance mode, but we don't know the internal resolution yet. What are we arguing here? The game showing is running the performance mode or the difference going from 4k 30fps to 4k 60fps?
 

Stuart360

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Relax a bit, I'm not downplay how this game is look. I'm arguing with you with a reasonable and logical take. We are talking about 4k 30 vs 4k 60 here, and no, this is a gigantic gap, and no there no maybe the detail is small. Maybe you are right that the game is running the performance mode, but we don't know the internal resolution yet. What are we arguing here? The game showing is running the performance mode or the difference going from 4k 30fps to 4k 60fps?
What difference does it make it its hard to tell anyway?.
Did you watch the trailer and gameplay demomnstration and think 'yeah this looks great but man that low resolution sucks', of course you didnt.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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I wish the people scrutinizing and spreading FUD, would do the same for all platforms, including their preferred ones. It's silly to see some lap up everything about *a game*, yet shit on this one? Keep the same energy at all times ppl.


With that being said, this game is gonna be a day one, if not earlier. I thought Forza Horizon 4 looked amazing, but holy shit this is gonna be 🔥🔥🔥🔥🚒🚒
 

Kangx

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I dont really get your point, we have already seen how good the game looks at 60fps. If the game looks even better at 30fps, then thats just gravy for the people that want that.
Read my post again. Iam not arguing with you on how the game look. We are talking about resolution and detail draw back from going 4k 30 fps to 4k 60 fps. Maybe you are correct that this is the performance mode and it is running at lower resolution then 4k 30 fps to keep the same details. and we don't know the internal resolution yet, but thid does not counter any point that I made.
 

Stuart360

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I wish the people scrutinizing and spreading FUD, would do the same for all platforms, including their preferred ones. It's silly to see some lap up everything about *a game*, yet shit on this one? Keep the same energy at all times ppl.


With that being said, this game is gonna be a day one, if not earlier. I thought Forza Horizon 4 looked amazing, but holy shit this is gonna be 🔥🔥🔥🔥🚒🚒
Its like i said when the game was first shown. Anyone trying to downplay THIS game, well its only going to make them look stupid.
 
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Kangx

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What difference does it make it its hard to tell anyway?.
Did you watch the trailer and gameplay demomnstration and think 'yeah this looks great but man that low resolution sucks', of course you didnt.
This is entirely irrelevant. We are talking technically about the game going from 4k 30fps to 4k 60 fps. Agree that it's hard to tell for some people. I did not say the lower resolution suck, infact I was arguing for it. Keep image details and lower resolution is the way to go.
 

Three

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Next time you should pick 240p video quality and zoom in even further to prove your point :messenger_beaming: Reflections look fine to me, low res RT reflections wouldn't add much while eating up a lot of ressources.
😄 Good try at a save buddy. It's from the 4k footage. People can watch the video themselves and pay close attention to the reflections.
 
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DaGwaphics

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I dont really get your point, we have already seen how good the game looks at 60fps. If the game looks even better at 30fps, then thats just gravy for the people that want that.

Didn't we see the game at 30fps? Seems like they would make the trailer on the best looking mode. If that's the freaking performance mode I have even greater appreciation for it.

I know the YT vid was 60, but I assumed the source was 30.
 
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Neo_game

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Well we were just told performance mode is 4k/60, the vid is 4k/60, the dev was constantly talking about XSXand XSS. If people know somehting different then the footage is XSX footage.
In fact some of the pop up tells me that LOD has probably been reduced to hit 4k/60. They hide it quite well though i thought.

Like has already been said, just because a game has a 30fps mode, it doesnt mean that 30fps mode is hammering the console constantly. XSX may well run the game at 40-50fps on average with full detail, and a few simple optimizations (like lower LOD), gets them to the full 60.

Because Microsoft din't put any disclaimer that all gameplay footage shown in captured on SX. FC6 they did mention it was 4K 60fps I can't remember for others.This will not be the first time if the things shown where actually running on a PC including the Stalker 2. I do not understand why they don't mention it.
 

Reindeer

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I wish the people scrutinizing and spreading FUD, would do the same for all platforms, including their preferred ones. It's silly to see some lap up everything about *a game*, yet shit on this one? Keep the same energy at all times ppl.


With that being said, this game is gonna be a day one, if not earlier. I thought Forza Horizon 4 looked amazing, but holy shit this is gonna be 🔥🔥🔥🔥🚒🚒
Exactly. Rift Apart is one of the best looking games to date, but it has its own issues too like shadow and texture pop-in, certain foliage being static, plenty of clipping when flying. We didn't see as much attention giving to those things in Rift Apart threads and we shouldn't when overall visuals are that impressive. It's just sad to see people criticise every pixel when it comes to Microsoft games, especially with a game like Horizon 5 which is easily one of the best games we've seen to date.
 
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Stuart360

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This is entirely irrelevant. We are talking technically about the game going from 4k 30fps to 4k 60 fps. Agree that it's hard to tell for some people. I did not say the lower resolution suck, infact I was arguing for it. Keep image details and lower resolution is the way to go.
Irrelevant?, so the game could look amazing, the resolution could look pin sharp, but if in the back of your mind you know its 1800p or soemthing, the house of cards collapses for you?.
Play games, not numbers.
 
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Stuart360

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Didn't we see the game at 30fps? Seems like they would make the trailer on the best looking mode.
Er both the trailer and the gameplay were 60fps. I assume you havent watched the high bitrate vids, and just watched the 1080p/30 conference stream?.
 

Reindeer

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Read my post again. Iam not arguing with you on how the game look. We are talking about resolution and detail draw back from going 4k 30 fps to 4k 60 fps. Maybe you are correct that this is the performance mode and it is running at lower resolution then 4k 30 fps to keep the same details. and we don't know the internal resolution yet, but thid does not counter any point that I made.
The fact that you focusing on things unknown when the game looks that good just shows that you're trying your best to find something wrong with it.
 
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DustQueen

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How is this possible?
 
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DaGwaphics

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Er both the trailer and the gameplay were 60fps. I assume you havent watched the high bitrate vids, and just watched the 1080p/30 conference stream?.

I've watched the 4k 60 YT vid, I just assumed that the actual captured source was 30fps. Damn impressive if that's only performance mode.
 

Stuart360

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I've watched the 4k 60 YT vid, I just assumed that the actual captured source was 30fps. Damn impressive if that's only performance mode.
I dont mean this as a dig, but could you honestly not tell those vids were 60fps and not 30fps?.
When we get people on here sometimes saying they cant really tell the difference between 60fps and 30fps, i always thought they were baiting lol.
 

Kangx

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Irrelevant?, so the game could look amazing, the resolution could look pin sharp, but if in the back of your mind you know its 1800p or soemthing, the house of cards collapses for you?.
Play games, not numbers.
Wtf are you on. We don't know the difference modes look between 4k 30 fps and 4k 60fps yet. My argument is about going from 30 to 60 is gigantic, so there are have to major dial back in details or resolution, and I suspected it resolution because this is the most logical step. It is irrelevant because I'm not arguing about how the game look at lower or higher resolution. Iam talking about sacrifice have to make going from 4k 30 to 4k 60. Iam following logic here and you are not.
 

JackMcGunns

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This is so clearly the first "This is Next Gen" moment for me, this gen.

This is like those moments in gaming history when really impressive CG transitions impressively into gameplay (Lost Odyssey, etc)..only this time, it's simply gameplay (gameplay..not an in engine cutscene) the entire time.

No matter how many times you view it, it just doesn't stop being a convincing image. 👏


But it's RT OFF, so as soon as I heard that, the graphics turned 2D for me.
 
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DaGwaphics

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I dont mean this as a dig, but could you honestly not tell those vids were 60fps and not 30fps?.
When we get people on here sometimes saying they cant really tell the difference between 60fps and 30fps, i always thought they were baiting lol.

I don't really have a natural eye for that kind of thing in video. I can notice the difference when playing a game since the character and camera movements are different between 30/60, but just video playback I don't notice it. The only thing I notice in video is if the playback is stuttering, etc. Though in feature films the 60fps sometimes seems off to me, but I don't notice that with gaming vids. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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WTF 30fps, it looks nice, but not even as detailed as a game like the new R&C by example.

What's Forzavista? Is it a mode in the game?
Probably photo mode.
I checked it frame by frame and every frame is unique so it really is running at 60fps afaik, its not just the video or anything like that.
Yup the game in the video definitely runs at 60, maybe it's on PC... That would make MS the most deceptive they have ever been. I know the game is on PC as well, but one should expect them to have the decency to present xbox games that run on xbox "hardware" at the very least.

Or it's a simple typo and they will correct the error—However, if this is not a typo this gives us a hint of what to expect from the xboxes performance when they run games that actually display "next-gen graphics".
 

Stuart360

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Wtf are you on. We don't know the difference modes look between 4k 30 fps and 4k 60fps yet. My argument is about going from 30 to 60 is gigantic, so there are have to major dial back in details or resolution, and I suspected it resolution because this is the most logical step. It is irrelevant because I'm not arguing about how the game look at lower or higher resolution. Iam talking about sacrifice have to make going from 4k 30 to 4k 60. Iam following logic here and you are not.
Oh so what you are saying is that the 30fps mode is going to look even better than what we have seen, hot damn!.
 

abacab driver

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I dont mean this as a dig, but could you honestly not tell those vids were 60fps and not 30fps?.
When we get people on here sometimes saying they cant really tell the difference between 60fps and 30fps, i always thought they were baiting lol.

Just stop responding to those.
Once I noticed people were doing that just to keep an argument going, I moved on.
 

Kangx

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The fact that you focusing on things unknown when the game looks that good just shows that you're trying your best to find something wrong with it.
I swear some of you are so defensive and delusional. We are in a technical performance Target thread, are we not? We are discussing about the technicality about a game. Have I ever talk about game look?
 
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Reindeer

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This is so clearly the first "This is Next Gen" moment for me, this gen.

This is like those moments in gaming history when really impressive CG transitions impressively into gameplay (Lost Odyssey, etc)..only this time, it's simply gameplay (gameplay..not an in engine cutscene) the entire time.

No matter how many times you view it, it just doesn't stop being a convincing image. 👏
No no no, you're supposed to say it looked bad because there was no RT in gameplay. What are you doing??
 
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