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Final Fantasy VIII Remastered feels like half a job

Let me clear up before reading the rest of the post. I love Final Fantasy VIII, the series to me was at it's peak from VII to X and I spent months playing this game when it originally came out. I also plan on buying this port, despite my thoughts about the quality of the remaster and it isn't simply a hate post. Cool with that? A'ight.

Onto the main post.

Having been pretty hyped for the remaster of Final Fantasy VIII, I watched over the continued speculation about the improvements that were being made for the port. Added voice acting, higher fidelity visuals, a physical release. A lot being made of the fact that this port was a difficult job because the original source code wasn't archived. Sounds reasonable right? Well, now we know exactly what we're getting, I'm not so sure and honestly I'd rather they spent another year or so perfecting the remaster.

My first issue with the increase in visual fidelity is that it doesn't apply to everything. We've seen on GAF how a recent piece of software has allowed for an artificially intelligent system can 'predict' so to speak, the gap that should be present when up-scaling 2D content from 360p to 1080p and some of it is really exciting stuff. But this isn't happening in the port as I've read, so the technique leaves a very soft looking image with a blurry look, akin to the problem with Agito XIII where some of it's content was very high quality compared to other content, leaving a PS4-esque look for certain characters on screen and others looking exactly like a PSP model. Texture quality, poly count and all. I feel like we will see far more throughout the game how some content has been touched up and other content hasn't. I'd rather all the content had a proper remaster rather than some of it. The quality of textures in the vidoes shown is distracting when I'm looking at a battle scene with models that have a much higher visual fidelity compared to the floor and models that look blurry and stretched. The same goes for the FMV sequences which I believe will still run in a 4:3 format.

Secondly comes down to audio. Now the steam port I had wasn't ideal when it came to the fact that it used my PC's onboard sound chip to render music and I ended up using a popular mod to add in the PS1 soundtrack. But whilst fans have had opposing views as to the quality of the new music of the FFX/X-2 and FFXII remasters, I do believe that this title would be one that would highly benefit from a remastered soundtrack. Even if it added more clarity and depth to the compressed PS1 soundtrack. There is a great album I found on YouTube called 'Successor: The Final Fantasy VIII Score Remixed' and it's an excellent piece of work. Dance with the Balamb Fish as a song is absolutely brilliant and it really made me want an updated score that was faithful to the original but increased in quality.

Finally some of the features of the port really do make me think that the mechanics being introduced almost make playing the game redundant. Having a god mode so to speak with options to turn off random encounters (even though this is a GF ability if memory serves... I'm sure I had this on disc 1..) adding in 99 of a magic, having 9999 health etc. Game speed I can kind of understand cause it did take a while for the game running sometimes, more-so for us in Europe where the game ran slightly lower because of the 50hz format. I already know the outcome to this thought process, which is 'if you don't like it, you don't have to use it.' - and fine, you can say that. But I'd rather the team focus on remastering the title in better ways than this.

For example, what about a choice of font's? Colour-blind mode for gamers like me who have this condition? Why not allow us to change the text box from that horrible gray colour? Perhaps voice acting could have been considered? Perhaps a way to have Seifer and Edea as a part of the party in battle, outside of the two occasions I remember where they're in your party? How about getting those cut scene's into 16:9 format? Or even better, add more visual quality and effects to Tetra Master to make it interesting, Hell, why not add in a way to buy items you had to card-Mod for so that you can keep your cards or buy packs of cards in the game?

The point I am trying to make is that without the source code, this port was going to be a lot of work and a lot of work has already gone into this title. I'm very happy that this has been done and I can't wait to play it but equally I can't get my head around how this could have been more. Consistent visual quality increase across the whole game and not just select parts. It's remasters like Resident Evil 4 for example that are great to have but then you question why a 1080p PlayStation 4 version of the title has really blurry textures and some models just do not correlate in visual quality which frankly, for me, affects the immersion, when compared to say a remaster the quality of Gravity Rush by BluePoint which is quite honestly one of the pinnacles of remastered games in my opinion. All in all, I'm happy for the product, but it does feel like half a job.

Given time and resources, what changes or additions would you have wanted to see?
 

Ailike

Member
It seems like you're asking an awful lot from a $20 SE port, given their history. I'll give you font and text boxes, but other things you ask for are essentially changing the game. I'm curious what part you find a job though. Maybe I missed that.
 

Valonquar

Member
I'll just be happy to blast through it quickly and move on. I haven't played it since the game orginally released, and it was far from memorable compared to 7 or Tactics.
 
It seems like you're asking an awful lot from a $20 SE port, given their history. I'll give you font and text boxes, but other things you ask for are essentially changing the game. I'm curious what part you find a job though. Maybe I missed that.

It's a figure of speech. Perhaps an unfinished product was a more apt description.
 

John Day

Member
This was most probably a side gig that had maybe a year’s work tops? And at $20, i don’t expect much. Although yeah, would have been nice if it was 16:9, but i guess it would have been much more work.

Voice acting nahhh, that would have racked up the cost for what they aimed to do i guess.
 

Animagic

Banned
Let me clear up before reading the rest of the post. I love Final Fantasy VIII, the series to me was at it's peak from VII to X and I spent months playing this game when it originally came out. I also plan on buying this port, despite my thoughts about the quality of the remaster and it isn't simply a hate post. Cool with that? A'ight.

Onto the main post.

Having been pretty hyped for the remaster of Final Fantasy VIII, I watched over the continued speculation about the improvements that were being made for the port. Added voice acting, higher fidelity visuals, a physical release. A lot being made of the fact that this port was a difficult job because the original source code wasn't archived. Sounds reasonable right? Well, now we know exactly what we're getting, I'm not so sure and honestly I'd rather they spent another year or so perfecting the remaster.

My first issue with the increase in visual fidelity is that it doesn't apply to everything. We've seen on GAF how a recent piece of software has allowed for an artificially intelligent system can 'predict' so to speak, the gap that should be present when up-scaling 2D content from 360p to 1080p and some of it is really exciting stuff. But this isn't happening in the port as I've read, so the technique leaves a very soft looking image with a blurry look, akin to the problem with Agito XIII where some of it's content was very high quality compared to other content, leaving a PS4-esque look for certain characters on screen and others looking exactly like a PSP model. Texture quality, poly count and all. I feel like we will see far more throughout the game how some content has been touched up and other content hasn't. I'd rather all the content had a proper remaster rather than some of it. The quality of textures in the vidoes shown is distracting when I'm looking at a battle scene with models that have a much higher visual fidelity compared to the floor and models that look blurry and stretched. The same goes for the FMV sequences which I believe will still run in a 4:3 format.

Secondly comes down to audio. Now the steam port I had wasn't ideal when it came to the fact that it used my PC's onboard sound chip to render music and I ended up using a popular mod to add in the PS1 soundtrack. But whilst fans have had opposing views as to the quality of the new music of the FFX/X-2 and FFXII remasters, I do believe that this title would be one that would highly benefit from a remastered soundtrack. Even if it added more clarity and depth to the compressed PS1 soundtrack. There is a great album I found on YouTube called 'Successor: The Final Fantasy VIII Score Remixed' and it's an excellent piece of work. Dance with the Balamb Fish as a song is absolutely brilliant and it really made me want an updated score that was faithful to the original but increased in quality.

Finally some of the features of the port really do make me think that the mechanics being introduced almost make playing the game redundant. Having a god mode so to speak with options to turn off random encounters (even though this is a GF ability if memory serves... I'm sure I had this on disc 1..) adding in 99 of a magic, having 9999 health etc. Game speed I can kind of understand cause it did take a while for the game running sometimes, more-so for us in Europe where the game ran slightly lower because of the 50hz format. I already know the outcome to this thought process, which is 'if you don't like it, you don't have to use it.' - and fine, you can say that. But I'd rather the team focus on remastering the title in better ways than this.

For example, what about a choice of font's? Colour-blind mode for gamers like me who have this condition? Why not allow us to change the text box from that horrible gray colour? Perhaps voice acting could have been considered? Perhaps a way to have Seifer and Edea as a part of the party in battle, outside of the two occasions I remember where they're in your party? How about getting those cut scene's into 16:9 format? Or even better, add more visual quality and effects to Tetra Master to make it interesting, Hell, why not add in a way to buy items you had to card-Mod for so that you can keep your cards or buy packs of cards in the game?

The point I am trying to make is that without the source code, this port was going to be a lot of work and a lot of work has already gone into this title. I'm very happy that this has been done and I can't wait to play it but equally I can't get my head around how this could have been more. Consistent visual quality increase across the whole game and not just select parts. It's remasters like Resident Evil 4 for example that are great to have but then you question why a 1080p PlayStation 4 version of the title has really blurry textures and some models just do not correlate in visual quality which frankly, for me, affects the immersion, when compared to say a remaster the quality of Gravity Rush by BluePoint which is quite honestly one of the pinnacles of remastered games in my opinion. All in all, I'm happy for the product, but it does feel like half a job.

Given time and resources, what changes or additions would you have wanted to see?
It looks better than Grandia HD at least
 

Komatsu

Member
I'm not VIII's greatest fan and this remaster is one I will pass - I've finished replaying VIII only a couple of months ago on my PS3 using the original discs. That being said, the backdrops still look like hot garbage. It boggles the mind to see the sheer laziness on whatever port shop Squeenix outsourced this to. Like, fans have on their own upscaled most FF7 backgrounds using ESRGAN (Enhanced Super-Resolution. Generative Adversarial Networks).

Example:
tumblr_peyvwpef2U1xvyxl5o1_1280.jpg
 

Teslerum

Member
Just to mention: They didn't spend any time on those cheats. They copied most of them over from their 2012 Steam Release of the game.

Also don't defend Square on a lot of work too much, considering what the community has already done in terms of mods for the older PC release.
 
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TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I'm surprised they did what they did, this should have been a straight port like VII and IX.
upgraded world textures and CG backgrounds aswell as voice acting would have took it into FFX Remastered territory.
Like I said I'm surprised they bothered.
 
Honestly, I'm just happy to be able to play FFVIII on my PS4. And don't tell Square this, but I'd probably of payed full price for a straight up untouched port too :messenger_grimmacing_
 
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GenericUser

Member
It's a cashgrab, nothing more. Just emulate the original if you want to replay it. It's missing some fancyness, but at the core, the remaster and the original are the same game. It's a typical case of old thing bad, new thing good.
 

Conan-san

Member
The script is still a hot disaster, obfuscates game mechanics and makes Squall even more unpleasant to be around than he should be the whole game.
 

ROMhack

Member
Accessibility options are a genuine point.

I also agree about the visuals. They look distracting and quite ugly.
 
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ookami

Member
Ok first, people have to let it go with ESRGAN/AI Enhanced. No company would use it for legal reasons.
What did people expect for from a retro-engineered version of FF8 from the PC version which was already a mess? They would not re-draw all sprites at a better resolution or compose again the audio.
Developing your own AI Enhancement solution for one or two games is out of the question too. Not all game are equals when you remaster them, it mainly depends on the source material you have. If you start with a shitty hand, then you'll get a shitty remaster.

But yeah, I am right with you guys about accessibility options.
 

danielberg

Neophyte
Thats because it is ... when some modders can upres the images via ai so can SE but beyond censoring sirens panties and giving squall the wrong face... they didnt do much lol well lets just hope they didnt include the borderline now mandatory audio issues they have with every remaster.
And with all that justifiably being said i still love that its not lost and we get another edition.
 
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Pallas

Gold Member
Honestly I’m just glad they re-released it, they at least upgrade the character models. Fact that owners of the latest Nintendo and Microsoft consoles can play this plus other FF games that were originally exclusive to Sony’s PS1-PS2 consoles is amazing in itself.

I get where you’re coming from OP but let’s just appreciate that this got re-released to began with
 

Komatsu

Member
Ok first, people have to let it go with ESRGAN/AI Enhanced. No company would use it for legal reasons.

Um, most of it is entirely open source and most companies in the AI space train their own sets using open source tools all the time.
 
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lyan

Member
Um, most of it is entirely open source and most companies in the AI space train their own sets using open source tools all the time.
many artists are not comfortable with this kind of approaches to let someone/thing else edit their work
 

Mihos

Gold Member
Um, most of it is entirely open source and most companies in the AI space train their own sets using open source tools all the time.

We use open source exclusively. 99% of the algorithms are open and well documented. We will even redistribute our DNN configurations.

It's the data sets and the preconditioning methods that we guard as IP.
 

Komatsu

Member
many artists are not comfortable with this kind of approaches to let someone/thing else edit their work

Everything in FFVIII is Squaresoft Co.’s property (now Square-Enix) and I can guarantee that they do not need a by-your-leave from the artists to retouch anything. This is never a thing, oftentimes the original team is not even engaged.
 

lyan

Member
Everything in FFVIII is Squaresoft Co.’s property (now Square-Enix) and I can guarantee that they do not need a by-your-leave from the artists to retouch anything. This is never a thing, oftentimes the original team is not even engaged.
and the engaged team may still have artists that think the same? what's your point?
 

Ozrimandias

Member
I have this game on my Ps3 as a Psone classic, i was thinking to play it on my PS Vita too.....what do yo say GAF, should i buy this remaster and play this instead the original?.
 

Birdo

Banned
It's fine for what it is. They could have easily just straight ported it without any extra work.

All I need is the fast-forward button for summons.
 

ShirAhava

Plays with kids toys, in the adult gaming world
The script is still a hot disaster, obfuscates game mechanics and makes Squall even more unpleasant to be around than he should be the whole game.

Indeed

I feel like a half job is all this game deserves....people should be thankful they even bothered

Game completely falls off the rails after disc one
 

Shifty

Member
Ok first, people have to let it go with ESRGAN/AI Enhanced. No company would use it for legal reasons.
I figured there would probably be some red tape around it, do you know anything about the specifics?

It seems like one of those things that's such a no-brainer that it'd be all over the place if there wasn't some significant reason to the contrary. That or everyone's waiting for a precedent to be set.
 

Neff

Member
It's ugly
It has no rumble
It has no analog control

I love FFVIII but I can't justify buying the game again for hi res menus

I will be playing through the PSN version though while the VIII hype is on
 
On the one hand, I’ll take what I can get. But the consumer advocate in me says that if you want to market game with the moniker “remastered,” the updates need to be (1) meaningful and readily apparent; and (2) consistent throughout. Machine-based upgrades are insufficient if the changes fluctuate throughout the work as a whole.
 
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ookami

Member
I figured there would probably be some red tape around it, do you know anything about the specifics?

It seems like one of those things that's such a no-brainer that it'd be all over the place if there wasn't some significant reason to the contrary. That or everyone's waiting for a precedent to be set.
I think there are many factors to this. It is mainly my opinion and I might be wrong.
Can the project afford to use this? If you're doing a remaster of an old game and you still own high-resolution sprites it does not makes sense. If you don't, admitting you can use the toolbox for commercial use (BasicSR which use ESRGAN allows it), you have to train your AI with base resources. Either you produce them (which makes no sense) or use free ones. By using free ones can you still claim that the enhanced resources are still copyrighted work? Then you have to work on artefacts and noise generated by the super-resolution process.

Or maybe none of that matter and the tech is far too recent to be put on those projects because they're far too advanced in production. Which means that we might see some use in 2020 for commercial works.
One thing to note is that NVIDIA is also implementing its own tool (GWMT: GameWorks: Materials & Textures).
 

The Shepard

Member
It's ugly
It has no rumble
It has no analog control

I love FFVIII but I can't justify buying the game again for hi res menus

I will be playing through the PSN version though while the VIII hype is on

No analog control? Please don't tell me this is like ff9 remaster. I hated the way that felt whilst running around so much that I still haven't completed it.
 

Teslerum

Member
BTW: PC Users might want to keep an eye out in the future for this project.


Hopefully whats going to be the true definite version of FFVIII and finally will allow true 60fps gameplay and unlimited modding capabilities.
It's just a shame SQE doesn't work well with modders, otherwise this remaster could have been so much more.

What are the main NEW features of OpenVIII?
Compared to vanilla Steam release so far we introduced these features:

  • Unlimited resolution - You can play in 64x64 up to 8k if your monitor supports it
  • Linux native support - You no longer have to play with Wine emulator. OpenVIII based on OpenGL delivers the game in native code- with direct support for your platform drivers.
  • [WIP] Current known graphical mods support - We are succesfully introducing current vanilla mods supports including GUI/Menu overhaul, music replacement mods and more! We are in direct contact with all the mods authors planning how can we integrate their work
  • [WIP] Current gen audio - You can now play DirectX Music segments on all platforms (WIP); We also natively support loopable OGG music replacements making it possible to change any music you want by simply drag&drop operation. Thanks to OpenVIII you will be able to change, edit, export to Midi .SGT segments, replace soundfonts and much more!
  • FFMPEG video module - Due to FFMPEG integration we are able to support wide amount of video formats. You are able to play .mp4, .bik and even replace the videos with your own without worrying about the codec.
  • No more frame limits - All actions are no more tied to specific framerate. You can now enjoy the game with fully real-time animation blending making it possible to play the game in unlimited framerate making every motion smooth. SEE IN ACTION!
What are planned features for OpenVIII?

Our main objective is to finish every single module to make the game fully playable from start to the end. Our second objective is to deliver the best and most user-friendly modding approach allowing non-tech users to be able to do what was always impossible. The main future features we want to introduce so far are:

  • Shader Model 3 - Every 3D scene would be enriched wit the possibility of real-time shadows, lightning and materials containing normal and specular maps.
  • Easy assets modding - with specialized toolking non-tech user would be able to replace ANY kind of game asset with a simple drag&drop operations not worrying about file format. We want the artists to be able to replace for example whole battle stage with high-poly FBX/OBJ exported without any addons straight from 3D modelling softwares. Same behaviour applicable to materials, textures and 2D art- no more complex file systems, worrying about palettes, proper BPP…
  • Android/iOS support- OpenVIII so far supports variety of inputs: keyboard, gamepads out-of-box and even playing with mouse! With that approach we would be able to introduce the smartphone version much faster


 
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Teslerum

Member
Bad news

Awful version. It is not built for Windows, but is emulated. This is a closed WEEP emulator developed by SE to port games to consoles. It is terribly voracious and prevents the modification of the executable file (it is possible, but more difficult than with the original game).
The port contains the executable file of the original game, and hooks the rendering functions. Uses GL instead of DirectX.
 
Got the original Steam version that i held off playing & modding when remaster was announced.

Feel like i might just settle for that version instead.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
So no one plans on getting the Platinum trophy? Too bad Sony couldn’t have given the PS Classics a trophy lists. I love this game and my experience (like many) was with the physical PS1 version. I bought this Remaster twice because it was $20. I’m a bit down that everyone has shat on it. I for one think they only care about VIIR and making sure every console has a bunch of Final Fantasy game(s) on it. Not even a mobile port of VIII either.
 

Teslerum

Member
So yeah. Looks worse and worse.
Is it possible that Dotemu screw up the file structure so that we can't mess with it?

They DID. Introduced zzz, new FS compression and partially reorganized field archives (multi JSM, multi text sections, some fields have broken/badly edited FL and FI sections- complete misunderstanding) rendering Deling useless. We broke zzz, we broke new compression (sorta) but that's all. More and more people are leaving this pile of poo
 
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