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[El Sloth]

Well, since there's been like a page and half of you guys talking about this, I figured some of you might be interested in this video: here's Mariel Cartwright's (the lead animator on SG) take on the designs in Skullgirls, representation of woman in video games, and other junk.

 

[Fersis]

Can we talk about how Gootecks has the best Dhalsim in the World?

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

And Voldo crotch.

Project soul team has all the angles covered.

As an aside, I really liked Hilde's design. And wish Ivy would put some damn clothes on.

 

[Dahbomb]

But those aren't just cute young girls they're representative of characters you seen in your favorite anime or manga. Going by that Sailor Moon and Cardcaptors Sakura is exploitative.

I would say though that AH is different from something like Sailor Moon because it's made to target people in the fandom of the latter which happens to be grown ass Otaku men despite Sailor Moon being primarily made for a younger female demographic.

You don't think this is exploitative?

Like if your game's marketing is "hey look we got a bunch of female anime tropes that you all love".... that to me sounds like exploiting.

At some point you have to ask yourself "why is this game ALL female cast?" There's clearly no game design basis for this.

 

[Infinite]

Cardcaptors was a good show. I wish I kept up with it when I was young, though.

Yeah I loved that shit too. Maybe I'm like "eh" when you guys say AH is exploitative because I grew up liking shit like Sailor Moon and Cardcaptors.

 

[oneida]

But those aren't just cute young girls they're representative of characters you seen in your favorite anime or manga. Going by that Sailor Moon and Cardcaptors Sakura is exploitative.

I would say though that AH is different from something like Sailor Moon because it's made to target people in the fandom of the latter which happens to be grown ass Otaku men despite Sailor Moon being primarily made for a younger female demographic.

At what point would a work become exploitative of women, do you think? Radio was on TV yesterday and I couldn't stand it because it was distastefully using a mentally handicapped character to get sympathy from the audience. Fuck that movie and Cuba Gooding Jr. Dude had goofy fake teeth too, ughhh what

 

[Rhapsody]

There's a bit of a difference. It's not the focal point of the visual novel (thank God, as the scenes are awful) and I suspect the sex scenes are only there because of how they drive sales in the market they're sold (which is kind of sad, but that's a whole another debate).

Luckily TM has gotten big enough that they don't need to rely on that anymore just for sales.
I don't expect anything of that sort for the Tsukihime remake.

 

[SloaneRisette]

lol

Time to compete in Japan.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

I think the main problem with a lot of all-female games is that the characters are just poorly designed. Most of them are borderline indistinguishable outside of hair color and bust size in Arcana Hearts. Street Fighter ladies are all diverse and interesting looking. I really don't think Skullgirls has the all-female problem. It has four problems:

1) Small cast size.

2) The art style is unappealing for many people.

3) The character designs are too "out there" for most folks. Most games have a large cast of normal folks and then a few weirdos. Skullgirls did it backwards.

4) The game is cursed.

Only one of these will change over time.

I mentioned this back when it happened but the fact that the two characters that won the IGG character votes were extremely neutral in terms of character design compared to much of the candidate pool should tell you a lot about what people want to see.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah I loved that shit too. Maybe I'm like "eh" when you guys say AH is exploitative because I grew up liking shit like Sailor Moon and Cardcaptors.

Having one character look like a Cardcaptors character in a fighting game is fine.. when you make an entire game based around that something is not right.

In that regard, I would say Skullgirls is much better than your average anime game because at least the designs are unique to the game. Having the same ol' ninja girl, nun, teacher, school girl, swimmer girl, mecha girl, magic girl in a fighting game is really bad.

 

[Astarte]

I mentioned this back when it happened but the fact that the two characters that won the IGG character votes were extremely neutral in terms of character design compared to much of the candidate pool should tell you a lot about what people want to see.

I wouldn't exactly say that Eliza has neutral design, girl got bits hangin out like clothes in the breeze.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Yeah I loved that shit too. Maybe I'm like "eh" when you guys say AH is exploitative because I grew up liking shit like Sailor Moon and Cardcaptors.

I hate to delve into "but I'm an expert" territory, but once you spend a little time in places like Akihabara, things like AH can't come across as anything except extremely pandering first and foremost. It's just dripping with otaku fetish fuel.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

An all male shoto fighter would top the charts. The end boss is a 7 foot shoto female though, that will kick your ass.

 

[Infinite]

Re: Objectifying/Exploiting- I almost think it's more a "male/female gaze" type issue- in that it makes one uncomfortable because it verges on "pedo/creepy gaze" when viewing the images due to what the artist has chosen to highlight.

I see what you mean.

You don't think this is exploitative?

Like if your game's marketing is "hey look we got a bunch of female anime tropes that you all love".... that to me sounds like exploiting.

At some point you have to ask yourself "why is this game ALL female cast?" There's clearly no game design basis for this.

I mean by doing so it's setting itself apart from the market by having a "theme" or a art style that's different. Unless you prefer everything to have inoffensive art styles that was derived from focus group testing.

At what point would a work become exploitative of women, do you think? Radio was on TV yesterday and I couldn't stand it because it was distastefully using a mentally handicapped character to get sympathy from the audience. Fuck that movie and Cuba Gooding Jr. Dude had goofy fake teeth too, ughhh what

I see what you're saying that's just an issue of whether or not it's genuine or not imo

 

[enzo_gt]

Well, since there's been like a page and half of you guys talking about this, I figured some of you might be interested in this video: here's Mariel Cartwright's (the lead animator on SG) take on the designs in Skullgirls, representation of woman in video games, and other junk.

I think I sort of get where she's coming from RE: variety in representations, but it sort of undercuts the relative amount of variety in the game, and doesn't really ultimately justify why pandering to a niche that is pretty much rooted in the objectification of women is okay under the idea that "it's okay for women to be sexy."

Thanks for posting.

 

[Dahbomb]

I mean by doing so it's setting itself apart from the market by having a "theme" or a art style that's different. Unless you prefer everything to have inoffensive art styles that was derived from focus group testing.

If you are talking about the AH design choices.... that's a clear market oriented design and its quite the opposite of "offensive" over there... probably closer to the norm. It's the equivalent of the macho bald marine archetype seen here for shooters. It's anything but different and unique.

 

[Infinite]

If you are talking about the AH design choices.... that's a clear market oriented design and its quite the opposite of "offensive" over there... probably closer to the norm. It's the equivalent of the macho bald marine archetype seen here for shooters. It's anything but different and unique.

That's not what I was saying. Your argument is "there's no reason for a game to have all females" and that really doesn't make sense to me. There's no real reason for anything. Fighting game characters could just be a bunch of wire frames or polygons and the only thing separating the "characters" from one another is their frame data, hit boxes, attack animation etc. and the game part would function just fine. It just seems rather silly to question the art or design aspects because it doesn't appeal to your tastes. If the designers wants to use a unique art style to stand out among it's peers then that's their prerogative. Also if the designers want to use an art style to market their game to a specific audience then that is also their prerogative. There are reasons for these things but it's ok if those reasons don't include what we personally like to see on the front end of things. At the end of the day it's about frame data and hitboxes to me. Honestly I rather have unique art styles and themes between my fighting games. We wouldn't have something like Dark Stalkers and even MvC is the devs were lazy with the front end of things and just gave us what worked for street fighter.

I'm not saying AH is unique and different but in a fighting game space it would be (maybe not now a days but you should get me.) It's clearly targeted a rather niche market and maybe what they're doing to go after them is alienating our North American sensibilities but that's their business.

As far as AH being exploitative I don't think that word fits in this particular context, personally.

 

[SolarPowered]

I wouldn't exactly say that Eliza has neutral design, girl got bits hangin out like clothes in the breeze.

Peacock is the true neutral. Eliza is neutral for people who play video games and consider that normal.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

I wouldn't exactly say that Eliza has neutral design, girl got bits hangin out like clothes in the breeze.

Sure, but between other candidates being Lovecraftian horrors or some otaku thing being the primary trait she's pretty conservative by comparison.

 

[Kimosabae]

About the Eventhubs sentiment: let me clarify that the bar is absurdly low. SRK's new page is sparse and often late in comparison. I don't even check it anymore. The forum is still probably the best for discussing the intricacies of Capcom fighters, but their notification system is borked, so you may not get a response to a post for weeks since most of the forums have been around forever. Not only that, most of the forum's layout is bad and redundant - there's a separate forum for every version of SF4. EH's forum may very well be just as good, if not better at this point, but I wouldn't know, since I've only checked it once in the passed 5 years or so (it was terrible).

 

[Flying Wonkey]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/1wtyet/eventhubs_steals_fgc_community_project/

Maxoplata rage.

 

[enzo_gt]

About the Eventhubs sentiment: let me clarify that the bar is absurdly low. SRK's new page is sparse and often late in comparison. I don't even check it anymore. The forum is still probably the best for describing the intricacies of Capcom fighters, but their notification system is borked, so you may not get a response to a post for weeks since most of the forums have been around forever. Not only that, most of the forum's layout is bad and redundant - there's a separate forum for every version of SF4. EH's forum may very well be just as good, if not better at this point, but I wouldn't know, since I've only checked it once in the passed 5 years or so (it was terrible).

Nothing is lower than Eventhubs. Nothing is lower than a website that won't even let you access it unless you agree to run a host of scripts that don't result in any significantly different site viewing experience (and can be described as questionable at the absolute very least), and uses full screen overlays out of 2001 to punish users that don't even use ad block but want to protect their privacy as much as possible. The entire site, from content to design, is meant for advertisers first, readers maybe considered in some aspects later.

For any argument of usability, EH ranks dead last, no matter what functionality/amenities they may offer.. if you get the site itself to load.

 

[Lost Fragment]

SRK's original content shits on EH's original content from a ridiculous height. EH is mostly just regurgitated shit that I would've heard about on Twitter/GAF anyway.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/1wtyet/eventhubs_steals_fgc_community_project/

Maxoplata rage.

Not sure I understand the drama here though. It's not a particularly original idea.

 

[FSLink]

Nothing is lower than Eventhubs. Nothing is lower than a website that won't even let you access it unless you agree to run a host of scripts that don't result in any significantly different site viewing experience (and can be described as questionable at the absolute very least), and uses full screen overlays out of 2001 to punish users that don't even use ad block but want to protect their privacy as much as possible. The entire site, from content to design, is meant for advertisers first, readers maybe considered in some aspects later.

For any argument of usability, EH ranks dead last, no matter what functionality/amenities they may offer.. if you get the site itself to load.

Yup. Can't even browse Eventhubs while on base due to the privacy proxy stuff and I'm not even running Adblock. Thanks for making me feel like a dirty adblocking mooch Eventhubs.

 

[Hitokage]

You know what AH3 is?

Fun.

 

[oneida]

fighting games r awesome

 

[ian to the max]

SRK's new page is sparse and often late in comparison.

Can't really comment on the forum stuff, but I'm not entirely sure what you're basing this statement on.

 

[kirblar]

Peacock is the true neutral. Eliza is neutral for people who play video games and consider that normal.

Static 2D Eliza's much tamer than animated Eliza.

 

[BakedYams]

Cardcaptors was a good show. I wish I kept up with it when I was young, though.

There is always blu-ray and netflix dawg.

 

[BakedYams]

Re: Objectifying/Exploiting- I almost think it's more a "male/female gaze" type issue- in that it makes one uncomfortable because it verges on "pedo/creepy gaze" when viewing the images due to what the artist has chosen to highlight.

Those images make me chuckle each time asks why games are exploitative of women and it's clearly right in front of them. Not blasting shots on anyone but come on, we all know how Japan is with its serious gender issues.

 

[Silky]

FGW | Nothing Happened: eSports Edition

nothign but a week of livestreamed re-runs

 

[Parallax Scroll]

SRK's site design seems a lot better than it was a year ago, but I'm already used to getting my news elsewhere at this point since the site was so bad before. I don't really have any reason to change my habits now just to go back.

 

[Infinite]

SRK's site design seems a lot better than it was a year ago, but I'm already used to getting my news elsewhere at this point since the site was so bad before. I don't really have any reason to change my habits now just to go back.

I would visit SRK more if their Wiki's and forums were useful. Both of those involves participation from the community however so it's out of SRKs hands.

 

[Busaiku]

Are those Backyard characters new? Or are they from Guilty Gear 2?

 

[Curry-Hakase]

GG2 + that pachinko game

 

[The Light]

Man dude made a script to get around the block for what they did? lol
As far as front pages go I like SRK. The section for the other fighters in the forums is a mess though.

 

[That Dude John]

Still waitin' on the next OG GG character who's gonna have a more drastic redesign akin to Potemkin.

 

[Silky]

Are those Backyard characters new? Or are they from Guilty Gear 2?

Valentine in GG2 is really a clone of Aria, Sol's wife.. There are a lot of Valentines that are being born. Rameltherl is one of the clones. So yes and no in regards to valentine being new

Still waitin' on the next OG GG character who's gonna have a more drastic redesign akin to Potemkin.

I don't think that's the same Potemkin

 

[SloaneRisette]

FGW | Nothing Happened: eSports Edition

nothign but a week of livestreamed re-runs

Basically.

 

[oneida]

Anyone here try commentating? How did you like it? Did you feel like you were able to disassemble the match to make it enjoyable for a casual viewer - and did you feel like you needed to?

 

[Silky]

who is this cutie, smedwicks

Anyone here try commentating? How did you like it? Did you feel like you were able to disassemble the match to make it enjoyable for a casual viewer - and did you feel like you needed to?

In High School we had this small FG club that would get together for AE and other stuff every wednesday and it was my job to commentate on what's going on in the game.

It's annoying. Probably not the same as live commentary, but it's still annoying

 

[That Dude John]

I don't think that's the same Potemkin

I had that suspicion, but when he gets by Faust's...uh..."finger prodding" super, the helmet comes off and it looks like the same dude. Unless it isn't. Then, I'd still be wrong lol.

 

[iori9999]

To be honest, art style, memes, or a small cast really pale in comparison to my biggest issue with Skullgirls... it's just a boring fighter at a fundamental level.

Skullgirls, despite clearly trying to be some mixture of MvC2 and Guilty Gear, manages to be the complete antithesis of both; its combos are very long and drawn-out, damage is relatively low so these long combos get repeated a lot, and the constant changes, especially those to IPS, do nothing to convince me that the developers have any confidence in their game's design and/or any idea how to make the game actually fun. Skullgirls is full of good-on-paper ideas (IPS, 360 help, unblockable protection, command grabs including the throw command, etc.) that come together to make an incredibly "safe" game. There's no risks in game design, and I get the sense that that is because Lab Zero is so afraid of making an "unbalanced game".

Meanwhile, MvC2 has more variety in every match despite there being around 10 viable characters in a cast of 56, glitches that lead to unblockables, 1-frame normals, and damn near unreactable resets that can destroy an entire team in seconds. Meanwhile, Guilty Gear is a game where the developers' idea of "balance" includes a grappler having an unblockable full-screen hard knockdown that lasts longer than a normal hard knockdown, a character that is entirely built around free alpha counters even though every other character needs to spend 50% meter or a burst to escape blockstun, a character with a command grab that combos into itself, and in general your only option on wake-up is "time to guess, asshole", and it totally fucking works.

.

That pretty much sums the game up to a tee.

 

[Beckx]

Still waitin' on the next OG GG character who's gonna have a more drastic redesign akin to Potemkin.

Bedman revealed to be Kliff.

 

[iori9999]

You mean the entire cast of loli female characters isn't obvious enough? Game is completely exploitative of the otaku culture.

Come on now son.

I liked the game but the movement was overkill.. I never liked the homing system..

 

[casperOne]

Anyone here try commentating? How did you like it? Did you feel like you were able to disassemble the match to make it enjoyable for a casual viewer - and did you feel like you needed to?

*ahem*

It ain't easy, I'll say that.

 

[Astarte]

Peacock is the true neutral. Eliza is neutral for people who play video games and consider that normal.

I adore peacock in every way, girl has everything going for her. Eliza is...I can't really say she's normal. But hey, we get as much boneservice with her as we get on painwheel.

Still waitin' on the next OG GG character who's gonna have a more drastic redesign akin to Potemkin.

Moe Baiken with two arms and eyes, thousands riot.

 

[Rhapsody]

who is this cutie, smedwicks

Smedwick's persona waifu, Rise

 

[iori9999]

The entire AH3 cast looks like they took a deck of cards with anime fetishes written on them, then for each character they shuffled and drew a few cards, combined all those features and called it a day.

This was also the design process for Blazblue characters, but they used general anime character traits instead of just sexual ones.

I always and still think GG has the best character designs.. I do like the designs of Rachel and Taokaka in BB though..

 

[That Dude John]

Bedman revealed to be Kliff.

I will up you with Bedman revealed to be Bridget.

Moe Baiken with two arms and eyes, thousands riot.

Yo, the new arm and eye need to be mechanical.. And she will then need an eye-laser alpha counter.