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Famitsu Week 17, 2023 (Apr 17 - Apr 23)

Nautilus

Banned
You don't really add anything to this thread but just stating the bleeding obvious. Home consoles have been in decline for years. Japan prefers mobile and handheld. The Switch would never sell anywhere close to these numbers if it were just a home console. I don't know why you try comparing PS5 to Switch when one is twice the price of the other.
PlayStation probably sell more digital games and have a subscription service. Also most of the games are more western oriented.
Because the Switch is a hybrid console, and thus it can be both used as a home console and handheld. So if it can(and is) used as a home console, it competes directly, indirectly, and in any other shape or form against Sony and MS. So comparisons are always warranted, no matter the circunstance.

And Sony's complete failure in Japan has nothing to do with it being a home console. It has everything to do with Sony's incapacity to capture the interest of the japanese market due to not having a hardware and especially software appealing enough for that region.
 

Nautilus

Banned
😂 I'm saying when someone is choosing between physical & downloading on switch it's not a big deal because you can carry a bunch of them little cartridges around with you & pop them in as you go vs having to get up & put a different disc in to play different games on PS5 when you choose physical.
Central Park Horror GIF by Apple TV+
 

Woopah

Member
😂 I'm saying when someone is choosing between physical & downloading on switch it's not a big deal because you can carry a bunch of them little cartridges around with you & pop them in as you go vs having to get up & put a different disc in to play different games on PS5 when you choose physical.
You're still taking something out of a device and putting something back in. When people play their Switch on the TV, they still have to get up and change the cartridge just like you have to get up and change the disk on a Playstation.

Even when playing on the go, having to carry round a bunch of Switch cases is way less convenient than having your games on Switch digitally.

Playstation does likely have a higher digital ratio than Switch, but the inconvenience of having to change a disk vs. change a cartridge is not a significant factor.
 

onQ123

Member
You're still taking something out of a device and putting something back in. When people play their Switch on the TV, they still have to get up and change the cartridge just like you have to get up and change the disk on a Playstation.

Even when playing on the go, having to carry round a bunch of Switch cases is way less convenient than having your games on Switch digitally.

Playstation does likely have a higher digital ratio than Switch, but the inconvenience of having to change a disk vs. change a cartridge is not a significant factor.
I'm pretty sure the masses see things differently
 

John Wick

Member
Because the Switch is a hybrid console, and thus it can be both used as a home console and handheld. So if it can(and is) used as a home console, it competes directly, indirectly, and in any other shape or form against Sony and MS. So comparisons are always warranted, no matter the circunstance.

And Sony's complete failure in Japan has nothing to do with it being a home console. It has everything to do with Sony's incapacity to capture the interest of the japanese market due to not having a hardware and especially software appealing enough for that region.
It's a handheld with the ability to slide into a dock for home purpose use. So in all intents and purposes it's a handheld. Sony sacrificed japanese success for world success and it's paid off.
 
Minecraft Legends was a bomba. In Japan at least. Well, it did look boring, so it adds up.

And PS5 down considerably this week. This one might be because of Golden Week that starts Friday, so it might mean nothing. Next week we will see.

But god, PS5 software situation just seems to get worse, doesn't it? No games on top 10, and the lowest selling game on the chart is at 3700, wgich means the best PS5 game is doing less than that. And yet, hardware does 41k. This situation makes zero sense.

Other than that, nothing really exciting of note. Switch slightly up this week, but its still around what it has been doing for months now.
You got warnings for this, yet here you are at it again.
 

Impotaku

Member
Even when playing on the go, having to carry round a bunch of Switch cases is way less convenient than having your games on Switch digitally.
It really isn't, the switch carts are so small & thin they are dead easy to carry a nice selection of games i doubt anyone carries them around in their original cases mine comes with me to work every day for me to game on my breaks. My switch case that holds my console also has space for me to take 10 carts with me too and it all fits in my trouser pocket, it's no less inconvenient than using a digital loaded machine unless you REALLY need to save those 10 extra seconds by having to swap the cart in & out the console lol.
 

Nautilus

Banned
It's a handheld with the ability to slide into a dock for home purpose use. So in all intents and purposes it's a handheld. Sony sacrificed japanese success for world success and it's paid off.
No, its a hybrid system that is both a true home console and a true handheld.

And sure, I do agree that Sony strategy has been a big success.But Nintendo managed to have worldwide success, and also was successful in Japan.And did that without sacrificing either.
 

Woopah

Member
It really isn't, the switch carts are so small & thin they are dead easy to carry a nice selection of games i doubt anyone carries them around in their original cases mine comes with me to work every day for me to game on my breaks. My switch case that holds my console also has space for me to take 10 carts with me too and it all fits in my trouser pocket, it's no less inconvenient than using a digital loaded machine unless you REALLY need to save those 10 extra seconds by having to swap the cart in & out the console lol.
I mean, that's kind of my point. I don't think having to change disks is massively more inconvenient than having to change cartridges. Both things are pretty easy to do and not a huge reason to go digital.

There are many more important reasons that explain the difference in digital split between Switch and PlayStation.
 

onQ123

Member
No, they don't. If people only played undocked they would choose the Lite. Instead, the Lite is the least popular Switch model in Japan, just like everywhere else.

Most people in Japan play the Switch both docked and unlocked. Again, just like everywhere else.
I wasn't saying that they only play undocked
I thought Sony were supposed to release their numbers today for the quarter.....
It will happen late tonight
 

onQ123

Member
It really isn't, the switch carts are so small & thin they are dead easy to carry a nice selection of games i doubt anyone carries them around in their original cases mine comes with me to work every day for me to game on my breaks. My switch case that holds my console also has space for me to take 10 carts with me too and it all fits in my trouser pocket, it's no less inconvenient than using a digital loaded machine unless you REALLY need to save those 10 extra seconds by having to swap the cart in & out the console lol.
I'm not even sure why people acting like they don't understand this 😂
 

Woopah

Member
I wasn't saying that they only play undocked

It will happen late tonight
Right, so most peole play the Switch in both modes. So when they play the Switch docked they still have to get up and change the cartridge.

To make my position clear, I don't think needing to change a disk is a major reason for people to go digital, vs. having to change a cartridge.
 

onQ123

Member
Right, so most peole play the Switch in both modes. So when they play the Switch docked they still have to get up and change the cartridge.

To make my position clear, I don't think needing to change a disk is a major reason for people to go digital, vs. having to change a cartridge.
You might feel that way but we live in a different time Kids are coming up with hundreds of games at their finger tips they are not attached to physical discs like we are.
 

Woopah

Member
You might feel that way but we live in a different time Kids are coming up with hundreds of games at their finger tips they are not attached to physical discs like we are.
But why would they be attached to physical cartridges significantly more than physical disks?

That's what I'm trying to understand, why a disk would push people towards digital but a cartridge would not.
 
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onQ123

Member
Right, so most peole play the Switch in both modes. So when they play the Switch docked they still have to get up and change the cartridge.

To make my position clear, I don't think needing to change a disk is a major reason for people to go digital, vs. having to change a cartridge.
Because it's small & they can just pop it in & play . When you buy a disc nowadays you're just manually delivering the download to your console but have to prove that you still have the disc whenever you play the game.
 
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Tazzu

Member
Minecraft Legends was a bomba. In Japan at least. Well, it did look boring, so it adds up.

And PS5 down considerably this week. This one might be because of Golden Week that starts Friday, so it might mean nothing. Next week we will see.

But god, PS5 software situation just seems to get worse, doesn't it? No games on top 10, and the lowest selling game on the chart is at 3700, wgich means the best PS5 game is doing less than that. And yet, hardware does 41k. This situation makes zero sense.

Other than that, nothing really exciting of note. Switch slightly up this week, but its still around what it has been doing for months now.
Installbase have sent their agent.
 

Woopah

Member
Because it's small & they can just pop it in & play . When you buy a disc nowadays you're just manually delivering the download to your console but have to prove that you still have the disc whenever you play the game.
But a disk is also something you just pop in and play...

There are much more important factors that push digital on PlayStation over Switch, such as:

  • Superior online capabilities (since online multiplayer titles tend to have higher digital split)
  • Lack of digital storage space on Switch vs. PS5
  • The fact that Playstation accounts have been around a lot longer than Nintendo Account.

Slightly countering this is the Nintendo voucher system, as there is no equivalent on Playstation.

I think all of these factors are far far more important than the convenience of popping in a disk vs. popping in a cartridge.
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
im not sure why people are still arguing about japan hardware/software sales.
Japan sales are not relevant nowadays tbh, its just a small market.

Not alot of games a massive hit in Japan except for Nintendo games, if I were Sony or Microsoft, I would not focus on the Japan market except Nintendo tbh.
Furthermore, their population is declining fast, does not look like a market that could sustain for long in the future.
 
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Woopah

Member
im not sure why people are still arguing about japan hardware/software sales.
Japan sales are not relevant nowadays tbh, its just a small market.

Not alot of games a massive hit in Japan except for Nintendo games, if I were Sony or Microsoft, I would not focus on the Japan market except Nintendo tbh.
Furthermore, their population is declining fast, does not look like a market that could sustain for long in the future.
It's the second biggest country for dedicated video game platforms in the world, so worthy of discussion no?

If Japan is not big enough to be relevant, then the US is the only relevant country for video game.

Hardware and physical software sales grew 2.18% in 2022, there's no sign of a fast decline.
 
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lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
It's the second biggest country for dedicated video game platforms in the world, so worthy of discussion no?

If Japan is not big enough to be relevant, then the US is the only relevant country for video game.

Hardware and physical software sales grew 2.18% in 2022, there's no sign of a fast decline.
are you sure about that? isnt that US and the UK.?

everytime i look at the sales chart in Japan, i dont know...most games dont sell alot.....

"Hardware and physical software sales grew 2.18% in 2022, there's no sign of a fast decline."

For now probably, we may see some changes in the future. Population decline that fast is going to affect sales, i refuse to believe it isnt.
 

Woopah

Member
are you sure about that? isnt that US and the UK.?

everytime i look at the sales chart in Japan, i dont know...most games dont sell alot.....

"Hardware and physical software sales grew 2.18% in 2022, there's no sign of a fast decline."

For now probably, we may see some changes in the future. Population decline that fast is going to affect sales, i refuse to believe it isnt.
Its the week before Golden Week, so this is traditionally a slow time for sales in Japan.

The market could decline in the future, but right now it is very very relevant.

For perspective, the biggest game in the UK in 2022 was FIFA 23, which sold 2.5 million. In Japan the biggest game was Pokémon Scarlet and Violet, which sold 6 million.

In terms of hardware, there were 2 million consoles sold in the UK, and over 6 million in Japan.

Japan is much much bigger.
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
Its the week before Golden Week, so this is traditionally a slow time for sales in Japan.

The market could decline in the future, but right now it is very very relevant.

For perspective, the biggest game in the UK in 2022 was FIFA 23, which sold 2.5 million. In Japan the biggest game was Pokémon Scarlet and Violet, which sold 6 million.

In terms of hardware, there were 2 million consoles sold in the UK, and over 6 million in Japan.

Japan is much much bigger.
I see, I just googled and noticed most games that sold well in Japan are mostly Nintendo games or games that made for the Switch.
Most console games are dead in Japan, I personally see no point to penetrate Nintendo market share in Japan.

its a good thing Sony focus on other countries i guess.
 
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John Wick

Member
No, its a hybrid system that is both a true home console and a true handheld.

And sure, I do agree that Sony strategy has been a big success.But Nintendo managed to have worldwide success, and also was successful in Japan.And did that without sacrificing either.
If it's a true home console then why are the specs barely more powerful than the Wii U even though it released about 5 years after it?
Why is it it's power envelope fully inline with a handheld?
 

John Wick

Member
Its the week before Golden Week, so this is traditionally a slow time for sales in Japan.

The market could decline in the future, but right now it is very very relevant.

For perspective, the biggest game in the UK in 2022 was FIFA 23, which sold 2.5 million. In Japan the biggest game was Pokémon Scarlet and Violet, which sold 6 million.

In terms of hardware, there were 2 million consoles sold in the UK, and over 6 million in Japan.

Japan is much much bigger.
Well it should be because Japan is very gaming centric. Also the population is twice that of the UK.
 

John Wick

Member
im not sure why people are still arguing about japan hardware/software sales.
Japan sales are not relevant nowadays tbh, its just a small market.

Not alot of games a massive hit in Japan except for Nintendo games, if I were Sony or Microsoft, I would not focus on the Japan market except Nintendo tbh.
Furthermore, their population is declining fast, does not look like a market that could sustain for long in the future.
If Sony want success in Japan they will need a handheld console with dedicated Japanese games. Right now with PS5 the best they can hope for is 10 million consoles sold.
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
When people talk about the weird PS5 software sales, they are taking digital into account. Even with a 50% or even 60% digital share, its still odd.

To put things into context, for week 15 in Spain PS5 sold 7,000 units (both models) and is at 125,000 year to date. And we saw at least 3 games sell at least 1,000 copies.

And this week in Japan we saw the PS5 with a disk drive sell 33,500 units, yet no game sold over 4,000 copies.

We'll get a better picture when the top 30 comes out tomorrow, but it is weird.

It has been more than two years now..and no clarification from Sony. Very odd indeed.
 
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Nautilus

Banned
If it's a true home console then why are the specs barely more powerful than the Wii U even though it released about 5 years after it?
Why is it it's power envelope fully inline with a handheld?
Power doesn't determine and never determined if its a home console or a handheld. Otherwise the Wii would have been a handheld by these metrics, and that would have been silly to say, to say the least.

A home console is a console that can be played on a TV and controlled with some type of controller.That's all. Obviously you will disagree with the basic definition of a home console, but that's the fact.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Ah, now the charts are irrelevant to software, since PS5 software is doing poorly there?
PS software in Japan has been doing poorly on 'physical' charts for well over a decade now. PS4 was barely charting for first 3 years also (until FF or MH released - whichever was first, I forget), and PS3 was only marginally better (also represented a big drop in ratio of hw:sw compared to PSs that preceded it). And of course Vita didn't fare any better, but that had other reasons for it.
 

Woopah

Member
I see, I just googled and noticed most games that sold well in Japan are mostly Nintendo games or games that made for the Switch.
Most console games are dead in Japan, I personally see no point to penetrate Nintendo market share in Japan.

its a good thing Sony focus on other countries i guess.
Nintendo being strong in a market is not a reason for other companies to give up.

For example, in 2022 significantly more than half of all console games sold in France were published by Nintendo. Does that mean that the home console market is dead in France and there's no point in Sony trying to penetrate Nintendo's market share? Of course not.

Looking at it from the other angle, PlayStation is significantly stronger than Nintendo in New Zealand. Doesn’t mean Nintendo should stop trying to compete there.
Well it should be because Japan is very gaming centric. Also the population is twice that of the UK.
Exactly. There is a misconception that the Japan is somehow small or irrelevant, which is not true at all.
If Sony want success in Japan they will need a handheld console with dedicated Japanese games. Right now with PS5 the best they can hope for is 10 million consoles sold.
Games would be much more impactful and a better use of resources than a handheld. With the right games PS5 would do significantly more than 10 million and similar to what the PS2 achieved.
Could the smaller screen be a factor on that? Just asking.
Unlikely, the Lite is also much less popular in North America and I doubt anyone believes that this is because North America only cares about portables with big screens.

Another way to look at it is software. Switch Sports is hardly a great game to play portable, yet that has sold 1.6 million in Japan. Likewise Ring Fit Adventure has sold over 4 million and Super Mario Party (which you cannot even play on the Lite) has sold nearly 3 million.

People in Japan like playing games on TV.

It has been more than two years now..and no clarification from Sony. Very odd indeed.
I wouldn't expect any clarification from Sony. Its not something they need to explain.
PS software in Japan has been doing poorly on 'physical' charts for well over a decade now. PS4 was barely charting for first 3 years also (until FF or MH released - whichever was first, I forget), and PS3 was only marginally better (also represented a big drop in ratio of hw:sw compared to PSs that preceded it). And of course Vita didn't fare any better, but that had other reasons for it.
There is a big big difference in physical software sold on PS3 or PS4 vs. PS5, that is what's so interesting.
 
Power doesn't determine and never determined if its a home console or a handheld. Otherwise the Wii would have been a handheld by these metrics, and that would have been silly to say, to say the least.

A home console is a console that can be played on a TV and controlled with some type of controller.That's all. Obviously you will disagree with the basic definition of a home console, but that's the fact.
My phone is a home console!
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
There is a big big difference in physical software sold on PS3 or PS4 vs. PS5, that is what's so interesting.
In recent years sure - but PS4 first 3 years were almost completely 'uncharted' the way I remember. I'll grant you PS3 did better than both - but the decline (compared to previous PSs) was showing there too.
 

Woopah

Member
In recent years sure - but PS4 first 3 years were almost completely 'uncharted' the way I remember. I'll grant you PS3 did better than both - but the decline (compared to previous PSs) was showing there too.
So I went back and had a look at the software and hardware data after each platform's first full year on the market (the PS4 has less time and one fewer holiday season than the other two due to its delayed launch in Japan.)

PlatformHardwareSoftware
PS3 - to the end of 20071.673.0633,065,423
PS4 - to the end of 2014934,6302.262.185
PS5 to the end of 20211,101,494 (only the disk drive version)941,289

That's the weird part. Hardware-wise, the PS5 disk version was sellling at a similar pace to the PS4. And yet the software numbers are quite different.
 
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John Wick

Member
Power doesn't determine and never determined if its a home console or a handheld. Otherwise the Wii would have been a handheld by these metrics, and that would have been silly to say, to say the least.

A home console is a console that can be played on a TV and controlled with some type of controller.That's all. Obviously you will disagree with the basic definition of a home console, but that's the fact.
The power envelope of the Switch is that of a handheld. Naming the Wii doesn't alter or change that fact and is grasping at straws. Ask yourself this does the Wii have built in rechargeable battery? A built in screen? Or needs a dock to function as a home console?
A home console can't be used as a handheld device. You can't play it while commuting or on the move. Can the Switch be played on a home console without the dock?
 

Woopah

Member
The power envelope of the Switch is that of a handheld. Naming the Wii doesn't alter or change that fact and is grasping at straws. Ask yourself this does the Wii have built in rechargeable battery? A built in screen? Or needs a dock to function as a home console?
A home console can't be used as a handheld device. You can't play it while commuting or on the move. Can the Switch be played on a home console without the dock?
The Switch Lite being a handheld and the Switch and Switch OLED being hybrids is the most accurate way to look at it.
 

Nautilus

Banned
The power envelope of the Switch is that of a handheld. Naming the Wii doesn't alter or change that fact and is grasping at straws. Ask yourself this does the Wii have built in rechargeable battery? A built in screen? Or needs a dock to function as a home console?
A home console can't be used as a handheld device. You can't play it while commuting or on the move. Can the Switch be played on a home console without the dock?
What Woopah said.
 
A home console can't be used as a handheld device. You can't play it while commuting or on the move.
Is there any recent data on how many people in Japan actually use their Switch on the go? When I went there I was kind of surprised I didn't see a single person playing on one. It was all phones and older handhelds. I actually saw more people on WonderSwans than Switches.

That was back in 2018, so not too long after the Switch's release, but I think it had already outsold the Vita at that point and I spotted quite a few of those, so it can't all be down to the number of units sold.
 
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