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[Men_in_Boxes]

So the industry seems to have anointed the extraction shooter as the next big thing. It feels like every time we see a new, large scale, PvP multiplayer game, it's an extraction game.

Consider the following...

Escape from Tarkov and Hunt Showdown are the only 2 uber successful extraction shooters released over the last 6 years.

PUBG, Fortnite, Apex Legends, CoD: Blackout, Warzone, Warzone 2.0, Fall Guys, and Naraka Bladepoint are the last few uber successful Battle Royale games released over the last 6 years.

Is it too early to say this... Extraction shooters don't have a hit rate comparable to Battle Royale games. There also doesn't seem to be very many high profile Battle Royale flops that would warrant a slowdown in the genre. There's only 3 high profile BR failures IMO...The Battlefield BR (fire something?), HyperScape, and Spellbreak.

Why has the industry moved on from BR? What is is about Extraction Shooters that seems more appealing to these companies?

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

It has to work! Extraction shooters allow for more content that fits the in game universe, expanding on the original idea with some story and new environments or seasonal events.

BR requires lightning in a bottle with content from outside your walls. Collaborations, brands, bands. Good luck adding a new map.

 

[tommycronin]

Extraction shooters require a lot more from the player so I'll say Battle Royale. Battle Royale is mindless fun where people don't really care what happens they just want to run around with their favourite anime character shooting guns.

 

[MiguelItUp]

It's just the "next new thing" much like what's happened with previous game type fads in previous decades. A game comes along that tries something kind of different, takes off, gets attention, and other studios what a slice of that pie. Especially AAA studios. With BRs it's basically the big three holding it down (Fortnite, COD, and Apex), and I'm sure a lot of studios don't want to go up against that. A lot of BR games have gone belly up since the genre got so much attention. Some were great and had potential, some not so much. But that's neither here nor there.

They want to try to do the extraction shooter thing while it's still kind of somewhat "fresh". Funny thing is that we're about to see it get big time saturated over the near year and some change. Marathon, Hyenas, ARC Raiders, and so many more doing their version of the "extraction shooter" genre, or just straight up "going by the book." With extraction shooters requiring quite a bit more from players, I think it's what is making studios more and more interested. Well, and as much as I don't want to say it, I'm sure studios are really interested and excited about seeing how they can make money/monetize it all.

This is probably gonna be the thing for a few years, just like BRs were. I'm wondering what will be the "big" ones when it's all said and done. I'm also really curious to see what the "next new thing" will be.

I honestly think they'll both be successful. But as long as the "big three" exists, I feel like BRs will bring in more money because they're a bit more mindless and straight forward.

 

[kunonabi]

Extraction shooters tend to be more interesting from what I've played and watched. I like the idea of a Battle Royale but they're always just boring shooters and nobody seems interested in actually doing anything unique or fresh the format.

 

[Griffon]

Classic AAA devs chasing after trends created by indies. Nothing new here.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

Extraction shooters have a non-binary outcome. You either win or you don’t in BR. You make your own winning terms in Extraction games.
There’s also more at stake potentially.

So the highs will be higher and the lows are lower than BR games. More dynamic.

Tarkov is a very niche game, but still relatively popular on the streaming platforms. So companies smell an opportunity here.
If done right, they could have a mega hit on their hands.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It's just the "next new thing" much like what's happened with previous game type fads in previous decades. A game comes along that tries something kind of different, takes off, gets attention, and other studios what a slice of that pie. Especially AAA studios. With BRs it's basically the big three holding it down (Fortnite, COD, and Apex), and I'm sure a lot of studios don't want to go up against that. A lot of BR games have gone belly up since the genre got so much attention. Some were great and had potential, some not so much. But that's neither here nor there.

They want to try to do the extraction shooter thing while it's still kind of somewhat "fresh". Funny thing is that we're about to see it get big time saturated over the near year and some change. Marathon, Hyenas, ARC Raiders, and so many more doing their version of the "extraction shooter" genre, or just straight up "going by the book." With extraction shooters requiring quite a bit more from players, I think it's what is making studios more and more interested. Well, and as much as I don't want to say it, I'm sure studios are really interested and excited about seeing how they can make money/monetize it all.

This is probably gonna be the thing for a few years, just like BRs were. I'm wondering what will be the "big" ones when it's all said and done. I'm also really curious to see what the "next new thing" will be.

I honestly think they'll both be successful. But as long as the "big three" exists, I feel like BRs will bring in more money because they're a bit more mindless and straight forward.

Reminder: Naraka Bladepoint and Fall Guys have done ridiculously well for their companies. You don't need to "challenge" Fortnite, Apex, and Warzone to make loads of money.

It's just strange to see how popular the genre still is and it seems like the industry has moved off it in a sense. The only big one in the pipeline is Off the Grid and we haven't seen that in a while. It also doesn't seem to be tapped out of new ideas IMO. There's so many things you could do with the format.

 

[phant0m]

Battle Royale has the bigger audience for sure. It's casual (generally speaking), you drop in, find some stuff, shoot other players, die (or win), repeat. All you really need are solid shooting mechanics and some unique "hook" like characters, map, visual design or mechanic (like building in fortnite).

Extraction shooters are much more complex from a game design perspective:

• You need a world/item economy that makes sense -- you want your players to want to survive, to get out with their loot. You don't want that to be too easy and have them build up a stash so big they don't feel any risk in dying but also not too hard where they run out of "good" equipment/items and feel they can't compete with other players. (this is the hardest part)
• You need to have progression that builds, even on unsuccessful extracts, that is separate from equipment.
• You need PvE AI that poses enough threat to the player that they need to deal with it without really worrying about dying/losing to them.
• You also need to have regular resets that set everyone back to zero and don't piss off your player base.

If you fuck up any one of those things it can mean the death of your game.

I liked CoD's attempt (DMZ) but it got too easy where I was successfully extracting probably 4/5 times and my inventory space was completely full. Marauders was really fun but needed more map variety (I've heard there's more now and should go check it out). BF2042's was terrible it had absolute shit economy and relied on multiple consecutive successful extracts for progression. Hunt Showdown is unique in both setting and being less about a bunch of "loot" and more about finding and killing the boss first.

Tarkov is.... I don't understand Tarkov if I'm honest. It's SO player-hostile. As a new player, you start your first game in whatever map you picked and you have no idea where you spawned, where anything is, or where the extracts are. Veterans will say "bro just pull up mapgenie in your browser it's super easy to figure out, eventually you won't even need it". Sorry, if your game basically requires me to have a 2nd monitor with a 3rd party map pulled up just so I can figure out where the fuck I AM then your game is bad. Also there's like 6 variations of ammo for like every caliber? "Bro just pull up the EFT ammo chart, also don't use xxx rounds they're trash". Sorry, if your game requires me to reference a fucking spreadsheet to know which bullets will actually kill someone else your game is bad. Also you need to reload your magazines manually, and it will let you load the wrong rounds for your gun. Click. Oops! Basically the only way to progress in your first 50 hours is referencing guides, charts, and 3rd party content in order to not ragequit from getting continously ganked by people that have already played or watched 100s of hours on Twitch. Absolutely abysmal design.

 

[I_D]

At the moment, Extraction Shooters are aiming to be significantly more hardcore and sim-like than Battle Royale Shooters.
As long as this trend continues, they will never be anywhere near as commercially viable as games like Fortnight or PUBG.


That being said, they are still my favorite genre of shooters ever.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Reminder: Naraka Bladepoint and Fall Guys have done ridiculously well for their companies. You don't need to "challenge" Fortnite, Apex, and Warzone to make loads of money.

It's just strange to see how popular the genre still is and it seems like the industry has moved off it in a sense. The only big one in the pipeline is Off the Grid and we haven't seen that in a while. It also doesn't seem to be tapped out of new ideas IMO. There's so many things you could do with the format.

Oh, definitely. Don't forget Stumble Guys, lmao. But there are still many, many more that are failing, failed, or barely getting by.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, there really is so much that could be done with it, but no one is really doing anything revolving around new ideas. Which honestly feels like modern gaming in a nutshell for the most part. You get a couple of studios trying to change it up, even if it's small. But the others are just following a formula, and it's a shame.

 

[GetInTheRobot]

I love extraction shooters but I wish there were more benefits to palying solo. You always get demolished by seal team 6 when you want to just run solos.

 

[Shubh_C63]

I have no idea why people still take Bungie lightly.

I might not play Marathon extraction shooter but it will be THE extraction shooter everyone will flock to. And BR is not over, its still a popular mode in any shooter format it has ever been.

 

[Hudo]

I hope both fucking genres die a quick, violent death. Fuck Bungie for what they're abusing Marathon for. And fuck every dev who pushes battle royale and extraction shooter bullshit.

 

[Robb]

It’s just the new ‘thing’. I doubt extraction shooters are more commercially successful than BR today and I doubt they ever will be.

 

[Wildebeest]

The cost of pulling people away from market leaders in a genre like BR is too high. MMO had the same problem after WoW, and it only got worse the more WoW got developed and established as the big game.

I don't know what is going on with the evolution of the genre. The way things are, FPS will all be 99% downtime. Staring glassy eyed at menus then camping in some foxhole waiting ten hours for a player to ambush who never turns up, until you die to a cheater from far across the map and don't even know why you died. It is just like real war.

 

[ozz ex machina]

How/Why would you consider Naraka bladepoint "uber successful". Also disingenous listing 3 cod BRs as different cases to emphasise your point of there being more successful BRs.

All I know is I had a lot of fun with Tarkov and if more games can hit that feeling I'm all for it.

 

[supernova8]

Extraction shooters have a non-binary outcome. You either win or you don’t in BR. You make your own winning terms in Extraction games.
There’s also more at stake potentially.

So the highs will be higher and the lows are lower than BR games. More dynamic.

Tarkov is a very niche game, but still relatively popular on the streaming platforms. So companies smell an opportunity here.
If done right, they could have a mega hit on their hands.

 

[MMaRsu]

There are barely any decent extraction shooters.

Tarkov is great but plagued with bugs, audio shit, cheaters and a developer who doesnt listen to its playerbase.

Im hopeful for Marathon

 

[MMaRsu]

I hope both fucking genres die a quick, violent death. Fuck Bungie for what they're abusing Marathon for. And fuck every dev who pushes battle royale and extraction shooter bullshit.

Lmao show us on the doll where these game modes hurt you

 

[Luipadre]

Extraction shooters are the new trend and i like them more than BRs. We just need some high quality AAA ones

 

[Hudo]

Lmao show us on the doll where these game modes hurt you

I mean, good for you if you have fun with these types of games. I'd rather have a new, proper Marathon game instead.

 

[ChiefDada]

Sheesh that Marathon teaser is at 19m views. Not my jam but the art style is captivating.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Lmao show us on the doll where these game modes hurt you

Not sure about him, but Marathon was definitely hurt, desfigurated beyond recognition, its body violated and its legacy desecrated.

 

[MMaRsu]

I mean, good for you if you have fun with these types of games. I'd rather have a new, proper Marathon game instead.

There's plenty of other games for you to enjoy, no need to shit on certain ones you dont enjoy

 

[Hudo]

There's plenty of other games for you to enjoy, no need to shit on certain ones you dont enjoy

I'd usually be with you on that opinion but not when it comes to extraction shooters, looter shooters or battle royale stuff. These games are first and foremost designed to extract (pun intended) money out of people. These are the prototypical live service games. And I think that business model needs to die in a fire.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

The first extraction shooter I've ever played was Dark Zone in the OG The Division and it was lots of fun. Haven't tried any of the newer extraction games but I did give hunt showdown a shot and that was awesome as well.

Edit: Although I vastly prefer looter shooters like Destiny 2 or The Division 2 and now Remnant 2.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Sheesh that Marathon teaser is at 19m views. Not my jam but the art style is captivating.

Yeah, and it also has 55k likes and 4k comments.

Those are so obviously bot views it's not even a joke anymore, lol.

 

[MMaRsu]

Not sure about him, but Marathon was definitely hurt, desfigurated beyond recognition, its body violated and its legacy desecrated.

As if it would ever get revived as a real Marathon game? No never gonna happen.

 

[MMaRsu]

I'd usually be with you on that opinion but not when it comes to extraction shooters, looter shooters or battle royale stuff. These games are first and foremost designed to extract (pun intended) money out of people. These are the prototypical live service games. And I think that business model needs to die in a fire.

I disagree. A game like Tarkov is a one time purchase, no live shit.

BR's are more towards that, but even then that's just optional and not integral to the game mode itself.

 

[Hudo]

Sheesh that Marathon teaser is at 19m views. Not my jam but the art style is captivating.

I agree. The trailer is awesome. Which is why I was so fucking disappointed when I read that it's supposed to be an extraction shooter. And then they had the gall to release a video where they pretended to care so much about the lore of Marathon and that they want to tell it in that game as well. Yeah... right. If they cared so much, they would've at least made a proper single player campaign to go with it as well. They can still make their extraction stuff as the multiplayer component.

 

[Hudo]

I disagree. A game like Tarkov is a one time purchase, no live shit.

BR's are more towards that, but even then that's just optional and not integral to the game mode itself.

Well, then we disagree. That's OK.

 

[Guilty_AI]

As if it would ever get revived as a real Marathon game? No never gonna happen.

Some things are better left dead. I mean, there is 0 reason to even call that game Marathon, not like the zoomers they're trying to sell this to would've even know what marathon was before that.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Yeah, and it also has 55k likes and 4k comments.

Those are so obviously bot views it's not even a joke anymore, lol.

That can happen when the video is embedded in some popular page. I imagine Bungie put that trailer in their Destiny 2 launcher or something similar.

 

[MMaRsu]

Well, then we disagree. That's OK.

Just saying live service trash will permeate in most if not every multiplayer game going forward.

It's not inherent to BR's or Extraction shooters at all.

In fact I dont think games like Marauders and Tarkov have anything like a season pass/microtransaction bullshit.

Just saying u might be wrong.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

What even is an extraction shooter?

 

[Dream-Knife]

Extraction shooters play like a battle royale, except you jave guys camping known spawn and exfil locations to kill you and take your stuff.

I'm not a fan of either.

 

[Wildebeest]

What even is an extraction shooter?

Supermarket Sweep for milsim dweebs.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Marauders looks good to me, and Hunt Showdown’s big - but as a solo player I don’t see myself getting into the genre.

 

[RoadHazard]

I don't even know what an extraction shooter is. What are you extracting, and from where? Is it hostage rescue and such?

 

[HTK]

I like the more social aspect of a Battle Royale, which has replaced your traditional multiplayer to some extent. I never cared for Extraction shooters because I don’t like the mix of real players and bots, I prefer playing with and against real players without any interaction with bots. I know WZ2 introduced AI and people did not like it at all.