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Elon’s Twitter Carnival of Stupidity (No Politics)

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badblue

Member
Like.... the rainbow has ALWAYS been there my guys.
"Yeah but this time it was in a circle!" is what someone on reddit said to me as their reason for being upset over it.

Angry Gi Joe GIF
 

ResurrectedContrarian

Suffers with mild autism
The weirdly politicized anti-Musk tone in here is strange.

Twitter pre-Musk was absolutely catastrophic for the human race, because it was a platform with enormous centrality (with bravado talk of being critical for radical movements in dangerous events or nations) while having intense levels of censorship against normal speech.

To circle back to one of the drivers for the takeover of Twitter, they blocked an enormously popular parody site for pointing out that a tranny man was in fact a man. Whatever you think of the topic, to even call that off limits for humor puts us into insane territory.

And regarding the Hunter laptop story: I don't even particularly care about Hunter, but the story was clearly true, and was entirely suppressed for strictly political reasons, on a massive platform.

To not be able to even speak reality on a platform with that reach is more damaging than anything Musk could do even if he put his mind to it. And I have never been any kind of fan of his cars or other projects (well, maybe Starlink recently).
 
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HoodWinked

Member
When you're trying to push false narratives and consparicies so bad you end up jeopardizing user privacy and security. I'm thinking Twitter is definitely violating that consent decree.


In9n6Sp.png

that's a very misleading framing of it. the issue was that it was junior staffers that were against censorship and bans and stating that many cases people weren't in violation of the policies. So the higher ups and the Truth and Safety team started to invent adhoc policies and justifications to ban anyways. So no there wasn't an "earnest debate" only edicts from the top.

 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
that's a very misleading framing of it. the issue was that it was junior staffers that were against censorship and bans and stating that many cases people weren't in violation of the policies. So the higher ups and the Truth and Safety team started to invent adhoc policies and justifications to ban anyways. So no there wasn't an "earnest debate" only edicts from the top.



That entire tweet chain supports the article: that junior staffers were having an earnest debate regarding policies and moderation. And like the rest of these files, it merely confirms what (most) already knew: moderating a massive social media platform like Twitter is sophisticated, involves a lot of people, sometimes new rules are created as needed, and sometimes arbitrary decisions are made. Just obvious stuff. Twitter is still the same way now, just with far less people involved.


The weirdly politicized anti-Musk tone in here is strange.

Twitter pre-Musk was absolutely catastrophic for the human race, because it was a platform with enormous centrality (with bravado talk of being critical for radical movements in dangerous events or nations) while having intense levels of censorship against normal speech.

To circle back to one of the drivers for the takeover of Twitter, they blocked an enormously popular parody site for pointing out that a tranny man was in fact a man. Whatever you think of the topic, to even call that off limits for humor puts us into insane territory.

And regarding the Hunter laptop story: I don't even particularly care about Hunter, but the story was clearly true, and was entirely suppressed for strictly political reasons, on a massive platform.

To not be able to even speak reality on a platform with that reach is more damaging than anything Musk could do even if he put his mind to it. And I have never been any kind of fan of his cars or other projects (well, maybe Starlink recently).

Would you prefer weirdly pro-Musk tones? There's a reason the vast majority of the world now disapprove of him: it's his actions and behavior. One needs to earn respect, it's not arbitrarily handed out.

Pre-Musk Twitter had large, robust teams to handle content moderation. Now, on the other hand, those teams are mostly gone. Those that remain are tiny, and moderation even at low levels are being done by fiat by Musk and a few people close to him. There's now far, far more hate speech, with extremely hateful people having their accounts reactivated. As for it being "catastrophic" for the human race, well, that's the kind of alarmist rhetoric that the previously banned hateful people repeat.

You used a derogatory slur while advocating for bigotry, so I see no point in continuing this part of the discussion.....

I'll just say this about the conspiracy theory you mentioned and leave it at that: when the Senate was under control of the opposing party, they already performed a long investigation and concluded no wrong doing by any of those accused. They concluded the obvious: that it was merely a bunch of unfounded allegations that echoed Russian propaganda.

People were banned for bigotry, anti-Semitism, racism, spreading conspiracy theories, advocating political violence, harassment - basically for violating the rules. I would not consider that prevention of anyone "to speak reality"?
 
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Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
There's more vested interest from those who want to see him fail rather than those that wish him success. I think this is fairly common on the 'net.

My question to the anti-Musk folks would be whom they believe would make a better alternative? You want to fix a problem, you need to offer a solution - and most importantly allow other people to interrogate and analyze the pro's and con's of that potential replacement.

Where's the risk/benefit analysis?
 

Toons

Member
Anti-musk is such a wierd term in and of itself. The dude is just a guy lol. It's like asking if I'm "anti-tom brady" like theres some stance surrounding him. There isn't, he's a dude who does things and ways things and does them very publicly. Some of those things people aren't going to like.

And the whole "but you own tesla cars" thing is a weak argument imo. You can watch a bunch of stuff made by Disney and buy products that if you go back far enough are owned by them. That doesnt mean you can't criticize their corporate greed or unethical business practices. Its not like Musk hand makes these things, if anything recent events have shown he probably doesn't have a big hand in their creation at all.

So yeah, the "anti musk" moniker is faulty at its core if you ask me, because it boxes in anything someone says about the guy by arbitrary standards. Is there an argument to be made that some folks are preying on Musk to fail at this for some petty spite? Absolutely, but that isn't anything new for a gd tech mogul. Not every criticism of Musk fall into that category.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Twitter pre-Musk was absolutely catastrophic for the human race, because it was a platform with enormous centrality (with bravado talk of being critical for radical movements in dangerous events or nations) while having intense levels of censorship against normal speech.
Not really sure how one guy calling all the shots and banning people critical of him is at all the solution.

I’m neither pro or anti Elon, he’s done some good things and his Twitter acquisition has been a hilarious train wreck of self contradictions and ineptitude that’s fun to make fun of. That’s all
 
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ResurrectedContrarian

Suffers with mild autism
You used a derogatory slur while advocating for bigotry, so I see no point in continuing this part of the discussion.....

I used "tranny" very intentionally for people like you to hear, because I'm old enough to remember the kind of men who very openly used those terms to identify themselves just a few years ago.

More recently, a completely unrelated bundle of autogynephilic fantasies and neuroses has been bundled into a new political identity called "transgender," but there is zero clinical information about these cases that has changed since they called themselves various things on the spectrum between transsexual and transvestite. It's all autogynephilia anyway, just in different intensities.

No one has the right to invert language overnight and demand we pretend that we can't recognize the common fetish of adult men who desire to take on the persona of hypersexualized women.

I'll just say this about the conspiracy theory you mentioned and leave it at that: when the Senate was under control of the opposing party, they already performed a long investigation and concluded no wrong doing by any of those accused. They concluded the obvious: that it was merely a bunch of unfounded allegations that echoed Russian propaganda.

People were banned for bigotry, anti-Semitism, racism, spreading conspiracy theories, advocating political violence, harassment - basically for violating the rules. I would not consider that prevention of anyone "to speak reality"?
When you define reality as "men in drag who sign onto a certain new identity must be called women in all cases, even though we all recognize it to be bullshit" then yes, there is a serious problem here for the human race.

No one has to toe the line of this nonsense if they disagree with the latest mandatory language of political winds that shifted about five minutes ago.

Pre-Musk Twitter had large, robust teams to handle content moderation.

Be careful with words like "large" and "robust," you'll be banned by the next wave of psychotic children who get their mod hats on social media. Rather fat-phobic.
 
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BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'

Edit: on second thought, I don't even want to touch any of that

My question to the anti-Musk folks would be whom they believe would make a better alternative? You want to fix a problem, you need to offer a solution - and most importantly allow other people to interrogate and analyze the pro's and con's of that potential replacement.

Where's the risk/benefit analysis?

He's not considered a cult of personality to those who do not idolize him. Before his mask dropped, in the months leading up to the Twiiter acquisition, I never even thought about the man. Now I criticize when it's due. Offering valid criticism does not make a person "anti-name". That actually sounds weird. Also, the endeavors of companies like SpaceX and Tesla are thanks to the efforts of thousands, including large tax subsidies from taxpayers, etc. "Solutions"? They're just businesses here to make money.
 
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Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
Not really sure how one guy calling all the shots and banning people critical of him is at all the solution.

I’m neither pro or anti Elon, he’s done some good things and his Twitter acquisition has been a hilarious train wreck of self contradictions and ineptitude that’s fun to make fun of. That’s all
Yeah, I'm here mostly because of the entertainment value. I could not care less what happens to Twitter itself. It has been and still continues to be a waste of anyone's time. The only good thing about it is that it embeds nicely on Gaf and provides a few LOL screencaps on occasion. If Musk turns it around and actually makes it worthwhile to use, great! If it collapses into ruin, great!

The only way we lose is if it continues to be exactly what it always has been. That seems to be the most likely outcome from where I'm seeing things.
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
that's a very misleading framing of it. the issue was that it was junior staffers that were against censorship and bans and stating that many cases people weren't in violation of the policies. So the higher ups and the Truth and Safety team started to invent adhoc policies and justifications to ban anyways. So no there wasn't an "earnest debate" only edicts from the top.

Also, about adhoc, unjustified bans:


(Relevant info is about halfway into the article)

As I said, Twitter is still the same, just less people are now involved with moderation.
 

Sonik

Member
When you're trying to push false narratives and consparicies so bad you end up jeopardizing user privacy and security. I'm thinking Twitter is definitely violating that consent decree.


In9n6Sp.png


They were "discussing" excuses they could use to censor certain people and narratives they didn't like by exploiting twitter's vague TOS


The weirdly politicized anti-Musk tone in here is strange.

Twitter pre-Musk was absolutely catastrophic for the human race, because it was a platform with enormous centrality (with bravado talk of being critical for radical movements in dangerous events or nations) while having intense levels of censorship against normal speech.

To circle back to one of the drivers for the takeover of Twitter, they blocked an enormously popular parody site for pointing out that a tranny man was in fact a man. Whatever you think of the topic, to even call that off limits for humor puts us into insane territory.

And regarding the Hunter laptop story: I don't even particularly care about Hunter, but the story was clearly true, and was entirely suppressed for strictly political reasons, on a massive platform.

To not be able to even speak reality on a platform with that reach is more damaging than anything Musk could do even if he put his mind to it. And I have never been any kind of fan of his cars or other projects (well, maybe Starlink recently).

The most important part that is always being brushed off and Musk confirmed is that twitter's algorithm was specifically designed to to show you shit that make you angry. It's actually disgusting what these social media fucks are doing to society
 

Dirk Benedict

Gold Member

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
how does it know?

The algorithms typically first grant weight to certain things the company thinks most users will want to see first - such as their friends feeds, and any data you may have willfully submitted such as topics of interest (sports, tech, art, etc). The app tracks everything you engage with - whatever you click on, the tweets you read, the people's profiles you take the time to examine, the videos you may watch in people's posts, the kinds of websites you tend to follow hyperlinks to, that kind of thing. Using your activity it builds a profile for you. It also has profiles on everything and everyone else, and compares that data to your profile as it builds yours.

Next, the app has metadata on practically everything. So it uses that metadata to further build a mathematical set of rules on what to serve you given your profile.

The engineers can make adjustments to say, serve you things that are in conflict with your interests for specific topics. In other words, they know what will piss you off, or conversely, what might make you happy, or even what might encourage you to spend your money (I.E. what ads you'll see).

Twitter's algorithm used to seem to only want to feed you dopamine, keep you going by piquing your interest over and over, scrolling on and on so you saw more ads. Prior to me deleting my account, I noticed it seemed more concerned with serving content I didn't like, I suppose it was an attempt to get me to enter conflict. And with this tweet, I think that was and is certainly the case:

ld4VeLe.png
 
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The engineers can make adjustments to say, serve you things that are in conflict with your interests for specific topics. In other words, they know what will piss you off, or conversely, what might make you happy, or even what might encourage you to spend your money (I.E. what ads you'll see).

I understand engagement and click-throughs to ads. I am specifically looking for how it knows what a user's emotion is.
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
I understand engagement and click-throughs to ads. I am specifically looking for how it knows what a user's emotion is.

It goes back to the metadata. By examining the contents of tweets it understands when people are arguing, or agreeing. So it knows who you'll more likely to agree or disagree with. It knows what keywords, topics, or concepts will affect you and how. It's all math, but remarkably efficient at manipulating emotion in people. It's a lot like AI.
 
It goes back to the metadata. By examining the contents of tweets it understands when people are arguing, or agreeing. So it knows who you'll more likely to agree or disagree with. It knows what keywords, topics, or concepts will affect you and how. It's all math, but remarkably efficient at manipulating emotion in people. It's a lot like AI.

is this you guessing that it's reading and understanding the context of posts, to the point it can pinpoint when someone is angry?
 
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BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
is this you guessing that it's reading and understanding the context of posts?

Not guessing, I explained it how it works already. I'm not sure how much more I can explain this :messenger_grinning_smiling:

Just know that by using data it has it knows what will affect you and how. It's all math.
 
Not guessing, I explained it how it works already. I'm not sure how much more I can explain this :messenger_grinning_smiling:

Just know that by using data it has it knows what will affect you and how. It's all math.

"using data" is not an explanation, you explained a concept and I am being as specific as I can be...let's get back to and be clear on the quote:

Musk confirmed twitter's algorithm was specifically designed to to show you shit that make you angry

unless you know how it works, and it'll all come to which data points are being manipulated and referenced to categorise anger, how can you be sure that's how it works at all? all I have to go on is "Musk confirmed", well there has to be something more?
 

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
I'm not going to explain to you how computers work now. I give up.
Yes but fascinating that you used the word work. Can you explain to me, someone incapable of understanding semantics and nuance, how a computer can work? Please don’t use any data, as it would negate my passion for arguing over the minute. I prefer to keeps the terms of the discussion only favorable to me.
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
Yes but fascinating that you used the word work. Can you explain to me, someone incapable of understanding semantics and nuance, how a computer can work? Please don’t use any data, as it would negate my passion for arguing over the minute. I prefer to keeps the terms of the discussion only favorable to me.

I'm going to first need to harvest the soup of bacteria and fungus on Mario Batali's scooter seat after heavy usage on a summer day, I am going to need this as visual aid. I'll go get some then get back to you.
 

Sonik

Member
"using data" is not an explanation, you explained a concept and I am being as specific as I can be...let's get back to and be clear on the quote:



unless you know how it works, and it'll all come to which data points are being manipulated and referenced to categorise anger, how can you be sure that's how it works at all? all I have to go on is "Musk confirmed", well there has to be something more?

It's actually really simple

Trashing accounts that you hate will cause our algorithm to show you more of those accounts, as it is keying off of your interactions.

Basically saying if you love trashing *that* account, then you will probably also love trashing *this* account. Not actually wrong lol.
 
It's actually really simple

that can be a simple engagement trick too, you're interacting with those accounts more so it'll show you accounts categorised similarly...doesn't necessarily have to be about trashing or not, and since the behaviour is going to be the same of whether you are interacting positively or negatively (similar accounts are going to be shown regardless) it's leading me to think it's not that smart to know you're actually angry

thanks for providing the Musk quote btw
 
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Sonik

Member
that can be a simple engagement trick too, you're interacting with those accounts more so it'll show you accounts categorised similarly...doesn't necessarily have to be about trashing or not, and since the behaviour is going to be the same of whether you are interacting positively or negatively (similar accounts are going to be shown regardless) it's leading me to think it's not that smart to know you're actually angry

thanks for providing the Musk quote btw

If you think that the algorithms can't tell who you're trashing and who you support I think you're probably 10-15 years behind on that shit. They definitely know and they intentionally push negative engagement to keep you addicted on hate and anger.
 
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If you think that the algorithms can't tell who you're trashing and who you support I think you're probably 10-15 years behind on that shit. They definitely know and they intentionally push negative engagement to keep you addicted on hate and anger.

well you don't know that based off that quote, and I've given the reasoning why it could work that way agnostic of emotion...without knowing how it treats other emotions we're back in the same place we starting, how does it know?
 

Sonik

Member
well you don't know that based off that quote, and I've given the reasoning why it could work that way agnostic of emotion...without knowing how it treats other emotions we're back in the same place we starting, how does it know?

The quote couldn't have been clearer, the algorithm recommends you accounts that it guesses you'll hate so that they keep you obsessed. I also know for a fact that algorithms can easily detect this shit for many years now so I'm putting 2 and 2 together.

And even if it's due to total incompetence it's still fucking disgusting and terrible for society, so what's the excuse here? That they were making society worse because they're a bunch of fucking morons? Either they're evil or criminally incompetent, I don't care, the result is the same
 
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The quote couldn't have been clearer, the algorithm recommends you accounts that it guesses you'll hate so that they keep you obsessed. I also know for a fact that algorithms can easily detect this shit for many years now so I'm putting 2 and 2 together.

And even if it's due to total incompetence it's still fucking disgusting and terrible for society, so what's the excuse here? That they were making society worse because they're a bunch of fucking morons?

the quote makes the outcome clear - you get more of similar content, but the method of doing that isn't any clearer because it's obfuscated behind "trashing" which, while I'm clear on the word itself, what it means to the algorithm is not clear...I'll take you at your word that you know for a fact that algorithms can detect emotion, it still doesn't mean that Twitter's does

if it's down to incompetence as you say, that is the algorithm just recommending more of the stuff you interact with regardless of emotion, then there's not really an excuse...if anything, in this state, it's much closer to the mirror-of-society that social media was supposed to be
 

Sonik

Member
the quote makes the outcome clear - you get more of similar content, but the method of doing that isn't any clearer because it's obfuscated behind "trashing" which, while I'm clear on the word itself, what it means to the algorithm is not clear...I'll take you at your word that you know for a fact that algorithms can detect emotion, it still doesn't mean that Twitter's does

if it's down to incompetence as you say, that is the algorithm just recommending more of the stuff you interact with regardless of emotion, then there's not really an excuse...if anything, in this state, it's much closer to the mirror-of-society that social media was supposed to be

The algorithms just detect word patterns and previous user history patterns to understand what you hate and and you support. It's not even that complicated and you don't need advanced AI or something for it, they could do this ages ago, I was reading about that stuff many many years ago. The reason why Musk is exposing all this is because his new open source algorithm is obviously going to fix this and do it with a fraction of the employees twitter used to have. If that's doesn't expose old twitter's dangerous incompetence (if it's incompetence) I don't know will.
 
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The algorithms just detect word patterns and previous user history patterns to understand what you hate and and you support. It's not even that complicated and you don't need advanced AI or something for it, they could do this ages ago, I was reading about that stuff many many years ago. The reason why Musk is exposing all this is because his new open source algorithm is obviously going to fix this and do it with a fraction of the employees twitter used to have. If that's doesn't expose old twitter's dangerous incompetence (if it's incompetence) I don't know will.

conversely Musk has a reason to say old Twitter was a certain way to try and contrast it with whatever he wants people to believe his new Twitter will be, but if there is actually going to be a fix, then it'll be provable and I'll look forward to the before-and-after evidence

so far he has changed the function behind "For You" and said he'd make the current algorithms open source, not that he was building a new one unless I've missed some news
 
Honestly I liked old twitter recommendations way more than new twitter. The “For You” section is unusable and gives me so much trash, so I just check the following section albeit less and less now.

Edit: edit actually I’m kinda over twitter now.
 
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BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
I think the quartering twitter drama is more interesting than elon at the moment

I had to read the Fandom wiki on him, since I've never heard of him. I suppose this is what all those fat dorks from high school became. Man, what a walking mess.
 

Mistake

Member
I had to read the Fandom wiki on him, since I've never heard of him. I suppose this is what all those fat dorks from high school became. Man, what a walking mess.
Sure he could lose weight, but actually his coffee company is doing quite well. I have to give him credit for the hustle
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
Also, about adhoc, unjustified bans:


(Relevant info is about halfway into the article)

As I said, Twitter is still the same, just less people are now involved with moderation.

In case anyone was unable to bypass that Bloomberg paywall (they do have one of the more tenacious ones) this article sums it up:

 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
In case anyone was unable to bypass that Bloomberg paywall (they do have one of the more tenacious ones) this article sums it up:


I feel like this is going to be reasoned as "he's still learning" ... Not "he's a narcissist".

There is no "good" narcissist.
 

HoodWinked

Member
those articles are simply expecting people to read only the headline which most do.

but the only substance to those articles is that they banned the ElonJet account but he's already back on twitter with a delay.

and that Ellen Irwin who replaced Yoel Roth provided materials for those who posted the twitter files like that's some kind of revelation... no shit.

and the other article is upset because they banned some guy named Chad Loder when there are articles of him doxing, doing targeted harassment and campaigns to get people fired. The guy was a dumpster fire.
 
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