Gordon Shumway
Banned
Fist safe?
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Does One Require Ignorance or Cognitive Dissonance to Watch Pornography or Eat Meat?
- Thread starter Aizo
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Ultimately, happiness comes from the suffering of others, at least to some degree. For you to have something, it means that another will go without. We live in excess, and a result, there are many who do not. The world suffers so that we can have our flashy distractions.
It's a sad state of affairs, but at this point, I've just learned to accept it. I've got enough existential worries as it is, the last thing I need is crushing guilt over the fact that my everyday life hurts the planet and all that live upon it.
It's a sad state of affairs, but at this point, I've just learned to accept it. I've got enough existential worries as it is, the last thing I need is crushing guilt over the fact that my everyday life hurts the planet and all that live upon it.
inked_illusion
Member
For some reason when I read through this thread, all I can think of is that quote from Fight Club which sums up my stance perfectly.
"Self Improvement is masturbation. Now self destruction..."
"Self Improvement is masturbation. Now self destruction..."
It really doesn't. That's just a platitude to smooth over your cognitive dissonance. If you're to be more honest with yourself, you'd realize that you're just been a jerk and don't give a shit, because you're not sacrificing your happiness for the plight of another.
On the other hand, it does also mean that you're not exactly pinning your happiness on the suffering of another - that's simply the way things are *now*. It's a small but important difference, in that it allows us to make structural and systemic changes that can better improve conditions for all in a win-win fashion, as opposed to shrugging our shoulders and accepting the fallacious truism that suffering must exist in order for happiness to. A more accurate version of that platitude is; potential for suffering must exist in order for potential for happiness to. But the potential needn't be realized in either case.
titiklabingapat
Member
Our brains have developed a good way to filter out many, many things.
Those that haven't usually have some form of mental or psychological disorder.
Those that haven't usually have some form of mental or psychological disorder.
As much as possible, I ensure the meat I eat is humanely made. Obviously most people don't have that luxury.
At the same time, the reality is that if we didn't eat cows and chickens, they would not exist. I find it very difficult to stomach an argument that says that genocide is preferable to suffering, although obviously that argument is there. So I think I would probably eat them in any case.
At the same time, the reality is that if we didn't eat cows and chickens, they would not exist. I find it very difficult to stomach an argument that says that genocide is preferable to suffering, although obviously that argument is there. So I think I would probably eat them in any case.
Aizo
Banned
I'm still confused about how I'm projecting.
Either you are making some grand assumptions about my character, you noticed something I didn't, or you have misunderstood what the meaning of projection is. Are you saying that I think the production of porn and meat are hurtful to people and animals, respectively, most people wouldn't? Or, that I think one would feel guilty of these things, if they are well educated on the issues, but most people wouldn't feel guilty? Either one of those arguments is not true, because there have been posts in here about people's guilt on these topics.
On the topic of your triad straw man argument, no, obviously the analogy paints a completely different picture than the problem I'm discussing. A more appropriate analogy would be that a person would stop watching snuff films, once they found out people on screen were actually being killed. I would imagine many would stop. I hope so, anyway. A more reasonable (and hypothetical) analogy would be that if many Hong Kong action films exploited their actors by forcing them to act in films where they were physically hurt. Yes, I would stop watching those.
While your analogy picked out one particular scenario, many women in porn are physically harmed. Many are forced into sex they don't want to have. Many are pushed into doing, generally, things they do not want to do. I am not telling people that it is their civic duty to rally in the streets to help these women. What I am asking is, if one does the research and learns how many women are mistreated in pornography, does that person feel guilty? If so, do they continue watching? If so, how do they justify it to themselves--not to me, mind you. I am not the judge of moral character.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Society is not built for a vegetarian lifestyle and it won't be until we actually have a cheap replacement for meat that provides as much as it does in terms of nutrients/taste. I am all for lab grown or synthetic meat and believe it will be the only way the majority of the populace will change habits. As of now though, the majority of the populace cannot afford to eat vegetarian at this point in time (both in terms of time and money). Global society however, cannot afford to be meat based. But there needs to be a significant transition period with all kinds of infrastructure changes before we reach that point.
It will be much easier to replace meat with synthetic meat than it will be to make everyone eat tofu or whatever. Synthetic meat can also integrate into our food production/delivery system in a very non-disruptive way (it doesn't really matter to McDonald's where they get their meat, but McDonald's can't survive without a meat equivalent).
It will be much easier to replace meat with synthetic meat than it will be to make everyone eat tofu or whatever. Synthetic meat can also integrate into our food production/delivery system in a very non-disruptive way (it doesn't really matter to McDonald's where they get their meat, but McDonald's can't survive without a meat equivalent).
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Why should people feel guilty
Sure if they like it
By enjoying it?
I mean, it's very noble-stop watching porn because some people are pressured/abused into it. Stop eating meat because animals die. But if we're going to start going down that route of oppression olympics-Feeling guilty for things out of our control-then we as a society should've guilted ourselves into depressed monotony for a long, long time.
You live with it. That's all. Animals die, people are abused, that is how society is, that is how society is structured. Sure there's always the thought that one day we'll reach a utopia where none of the above happens, but chances are that won't be for millions of years and by the time we reach it we'll all be dead because the sun will blow up on us or we'll be destroyed in a war.
I have killed a chicken to have it for dinner, and I have witnessed cows being slaughtered by a butcher. It's not an experience I feel is required to appreciate what ends up on your plate, but I felt curious about where my meat came from, so I went to check it out.
As for porn, I can't really say i feel obliged to care for the actress' well being. It's a filmed fantasy, one where the enjoyment of the people involved is hard to gauge by facial expressions and body language alone.
I do choose to stay away from amateur and low budget production companies, but that mostly because of the poor lighting and camera work and acting performance.
As for porn, I can't really say i feel obliged to care for the actress' well being. It's a filmed fantasy, one where the enjoyment of the people involved is hard to gauge by facial expressions and body language alone.
I do choose to stay away from amateur and low budget production companies, but that mostly because of the poor lighting and camera work and acting performance.
I am politically active on the left so that evens out buying possible child labour products.
With meat I have severe cognitive dissonance, I know how bad it is for the environment and I do care about animal rights but can't resist the stuff.
Porn is where I don't care at all to be honest, I just want to get turned on.
With meat I have severe cognitive dissonance, I know how bad it is for the environment and I do care about animal rights but can't resist the stuff.
Porn is where I don't care at all to be honest, I just want to get turned on.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Does one require ignorance or cognitive dissonance to post threads on GAF using a device undoubtedly made using borderline/literal slave labor?
Aizo
Banned
Read the article. Contractual obligations that they didn't realize lead them to be threatened to be sued if they quit. They're sometimes threatened into the signing in the first place.
Yes, probably. Did you read the post? I think my feelings are addressed. I'm not telling everyone to feel guilty for everything in their life, but more that I'm asking how they deal with the guilt. If they don't feel guilty, why is that? People are acting so defensive. I'm asking for opinions, as I stated mine. My ideology isn't the "right way," because my opinions are just one way.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That implies people care enough to deal with the guilt. Believe it or not, I reckon the huge majority of people using phones don't even acknowledge that there should be guilt in using phones or watching porn. It's just not there, nor should they feel the need to defend their actions, nor should they associate these things with guilt.
TatteredHat
Member
All the meat I buy, be that chicken, pork or beef, I buy through an organization that acts as a middle-man for local farms, where all the animals are raised in the most humane conditions possible. I'm not willing to give up meat entirely, but I do care about how it is prepared. As an extra bonus, the meat genuinely tastes better than the stuff I could buy at bigger stores.
As for porn, I guess that all depends on what you are in to.
To my knowledge I don't use any products that were made using child labor, I certainly don't hope I am.
As for porn, I guess that all depends on what you are in to.
To my knowledge I don't use any products that were made using child labor, I certainly don't hope I am.
I don't usually watch porn that isn't completely amateur, drawn, or straight-up erotica anymore. Sometimes I'll get into a weird vanilla mood where I'll watch something more mainstream and by that point my mind is so far gone that in the moment I'm not thinking about the exploitation.
I don't really care about meat. Honestly I guess I have trouble feeling empathy for animals. Maybe I should think more about that.
As for child labor, I usually just justify that with the thought that it'd be nearly impossible to live without contributing to it in some way. I acknowledge that my supporting of child labor products is kind of hypocritical and definitely problematic, but I don't think anyone is ideologically pure.
I don't really care about meat. Honestly I guess I have trouble feeling empathy for animals. Maybe I should think more about that.
As for child labor, I usually just justify that with the thought that it'd be nearly impossible to live without contributing to it in some way. I acknowledge that my supporting of child labor products is kind of hypocritical and definitely problematic, but I don't think anyone is ideologically pure.
I don't watch a lot of Japanese porn or JAV, so I can't really comment on it, but in the West the porn industry has improved a lot over the past few decades. There are still problems, but it seems that most get into it because they enjoy the work, the money (or both), and a possible shot at stardom. Can't say that doing so won't fuck you over career wise once you've exited the industry, but it seems that most get into it voluntarily. Got no shame in diddling myself over a couple of beers after that.
Aizo
Banned
Yes, so many are unaware of the harm that comes to others during the production of something they masturbate to. Once they learn that many people are abused, forced into signing contracts, raped, and all manner of horrible things, it is upon that realization that I ask how they feel. Knowing that the woman a man is masturbating to could be hurting, does that affect the level of titillation? For me, learning about these things was a huge turn off. I can't watch porn, because I find it upsetting (because of what I stated and more, but that's off topic). That's me. That's how I feel. If others also educate themselves, but justify it, I'd like to know why.
Do I judge people for watching porn? No. Many don't know the harm that women go through for this entertainment. Even so, it's their decision. It's a mere opinion of some guy thousands of miles away from most of you feels about a situation that people largely do not care about. I just want to know how people feel about it. Should they defend themselves? No. Not to me, anyway. Should they feel guilty? It's an emotion. I cannot decide how another should feel. Do I want to know how someone can know what these women go through and still get off from it? Yes. That's all. Curiosity about others' morals. Are others' morals different from mine? Yes, and that's completely fine. Morals are personal. One can also decide if they believe in morality at all.
Interesting thread. It is something that I also personally grapple with to the point of despair and depression - it's like the entire premise of my existence is predicated on worsening the world and most importantly other human beings.
Maybe I just need to get out more these days.
Maybe I just need to get out more these days.
Aizo
Banned
This is something I'd like to be more informed about, too, due to many people bringing it up in response to my discussion about meat processing and the porn industry.
Winnie the Pimp
Member
We live in a world where the rule of the strongest dominates. That is the reality. Anything else is just window dressing. So yeah, personally i guess i chose to ignore the background of the things i consume. Why? Because it's the only way to keep going.
Also, I think individual accountability and actions are not the exclusive understanding of the problem. Putting it on the shoulders of the consumer is way too demanding - you can't possibly expect a person to learn about the origins of every single item they consume or the pollution or exploitation that they enact.
What is required is a more systematic and structural solution that regulates and ensures at least some sort of "ethical" behavior by citizens.
What is required is a more systematic and structural solution that regulates and ensures at least some sort of "ethical" behavior by citizens.
Bad ass!
Nah just realistic. I mean, we could also get outraged at how much athletes and actors make seeing as theres so many starving people in the world and stop watching sports and movies in protest.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Let's take me for example.
I know that there is some exploitation in porn. And yet...I don't associate guilt with it. Therefore your question of 'how do people deal with it when they know' is a bit of a gotcha.
It does seem like you are projecting a bit because you're essentially saying "I can't deal with it. But why can you?" Your answer to it is that people are being ignorant. Maybe it's just that these people don't associate these activities with guilt? So asking why people don't feel guilty is a bit of a catch 22. That implies people feel guilt about the subject to begin with. It's a question asked with the assumption that the people being asked are suppressing their guilt to begin with.
So asking a person 'Why can you watch porn' to a person who doesn't associate it with guilt is like asking the sky 'why aren't you green'. It's just not there, nor should it be assumed it is there.
AppleSeason
Member
I feel guilty about watching some categories of porn... but well, I've seen insane shit I wish I could forget. But that's more like sarcasm / irony.
Meat is a different story. I have had to endure being allowed to play with a bunny, then see it stabbed in the neck and left to die bleeding slowly while trying to craw, then skinned and served in a tupperware. Once I realised that what I was eating had been alive and suffering, I could not keep doing it. If I slip into meat territory again I will have to endure feeling depressed and my body not being able to digest it anymore.
Meat is a different story. I have had to endure being allowed to play with a bunny, then see it stabbed in the neck and left to die bleeding slowly while trying to craw, then skinned and served in a tupperware. Once I realised that what I was eating had been alive and suffering, I could not keep doing it. If I slip into meat territory again I will have to endure feeling depressed and my body not being able to digest it anymore.
Aizo
Banned
Here's a re-post of the original post I made. I'm editing the original to cut down on the text, make it more concise, and decrease any confusion I may have caused. I still want people to be able to reference it if they want, and I don't want to delete anything people originally disagreed with.
I have been wondering for a couple years what most people think about some of the things they do that aren't some wouldn't call moral, but they do regardless of the self-recognized negative ramifications of their actions. This is largely due to how the blame can just be pushed onto more guilty parties, or they can keep themselves uninformed to keep the guilt at bay. I've been guilty of this, and I'm sure that I'm still guilty of being uninformed about some issues, too.
Here's an example: a person does not feel comfortable with the way meat is processed after reading about how exactly cows go from their range to the meat package, but, because the person does not actually participate in the process, they feel vindicated. Or, a person who likes eating meat avoids becoming educated on meat processing in hopes that they can continue without any guilt.
I've spoken to many people in person who have told me that they don't want to watch documentaries about meat processing, because they want to continue eating meat. Ignorance is bliss, right? I've learned a lot more about the meat industries, and I went from eating meat most days to eating it a couple times a month over the past two years, though I'm not a vegetarian.
Even here on Neogaf, I've witnessed people talking about their vindictive accounts of attempting to convert vegetarians or being entertained by vegetarians going back to eating meat. This was a major part of why I made this thread. Some of it is surely satire, but there are many people who become extremely defensive about eating meat.
On another topic, I live in Japan, so I know a lot of men who watch Japanese porn. I just posted this article (Japan Times) about how many women in Japanese porn are threatened or tricked into doing pornography. In response, a very close friend of mine who lives in Japan, is married, and watches Japanese porn openly, defended his actions. He said that, while it is a problem, there are many other bad things humans continually do, despite knowing they aren't necessarily morally right—a kind of cognitive dissonance—like buying consumer products that may have been made in part by slave labor. Does knowing that many other humans do similar things a reason to continue doing them yourself, if you recognize the harm?
In the past, when I have brought up my opinions on pornography, or attempted to talk to most of my male friends about documentaries I've watched or articles I've read about the horrible treatment of women in the porn industry, they seems frustrated and do not want to have those conversations. I never preach about it or tell them that they should be stop, but they would rather not be informed of these bad aspects, because they would ostensibly affect their viewing pleasure.
Please answer honestly, and know that I am not judging. I am just very curious about how other people feel.
Do you eat meat? If so, are you educated on the way your meat is obtained? Do you avoid educating yourself? How do you feel about eating meat?
Do you watch pornography? If so, are you educated on the way the actors and actresses that you watch are treated? Do you avoid learning about their working conditions? How do you feel about watching porn?
tl;dr: At least read the last part or something. This discussion is about deliberate self-imposed ignorance, so that'd be incredibly ironic of you to avoid reading.
I have been wondering for a couple years what most people think about some of the things they do that aren't some wouldn't call moral, but they do regardless of the self-recognized negative ramifications of their actions. This is largely due to how the blame can just be pushed onto more guilty parties, or they can keep themselves uninformed to keep the guilt at bay. I've been guilty of this, and I'm sure that I'm still guilty of being uninformed about some issues, too.
Here's an example: a person does not feel comfortable with the way meat is processed after reading about how exactly cows go from their range to the meat package, but, because the person does not actually participate in the process, they feel vindicated. Or, a person who likes eating meat avoids becoming educated on meat processing in hopes that they can continue without any guilt.
I've spoken to many people in person who have told me that they don't want to watch documentaries about meat processing, because they want to continue eating meat. Ignorance is bliss, right? I've learned a lot more about the meat industries, and I went from eating meat most days to eating it a couple times a month over the past two years, though I'm not a vegetarian.
Even here on Neogaf, I've witnessed people talking about their vindictive accounts of attempting to convert vegetarians or being entertained by vegetarians going back to eating meat. This was a major part of why I made this thread. Some of it is surely satire, but there are many people who become extremely defensive about eating meat.
On another topic, I live in Japan, so I know a lot of men who watch Japanese porn. I just posted this article (Japan Times) about how many women in Japanese porn are threatened or tricked into doing pornography. In response, a very close friend of mine who lives in Japan, is married, and watches Japanese porn openly, defended his actions. He said that, while it is a problem, there are many other bad things humans continually do, despite knowing they aren't necessarily morally right—a kind of cognitive dissonance—like buying consumer products that may have been made in part by slave labor. Does knowing that many other humans do similar things a reason to continue doing them yourself, if you recognize the harm?
In the past, when I have brought up my opinions on pornography, or attempted to talk to most of my male friends about documentaries I've watched or articles I've read about the horrible treatment of women in the porn industry, they seems frustrated and do not want to have those conversations. I never preach about it or tell them that they should be stop, but they would rather not be informed of these bad aspects, because they would ostensibly affect their viewing pleasure.
Please answer honestly, and know that I am not judging. I am just very curious about how other people feel.
Do you eat meat? If so, are you educated on the way your meat is obtained? Do you avoid educating yourself? How do you feel about eating meat?
Do you watch pornography? If so, are you educated on the way the actors and actresses that you watch are treated? Do you avoid learning about their working conditions? How do you feel about watching porn?
tl;dr: At least read the last part or something. This discussion is about deliberate self-imposed ignorance, so that'd be incredibly ironic of you to avoid reading.
At the same time, assume that some of your eletronics will be made by abused children, but another large swathe of your purchases are actually, actively creating jobs and adding income to a population that would otherwise be impoverished. Money that, in turn, will help keep more kids in school instead of working?
How do you square away that decision, then? How do you know what the net impact is? Given these questions, what is actually the impact of the good intentions of not supporting these products altogether? Could you be dooming children to starvation, rather than work? Which one is worse?
And since porn is part of the discussion, what would be the impact of absolutely zero demand for porn in the world? Would the world be better off, or is the gigantic market created by the demand ultimately a net positive in the lives of hundreds of thousands of people?
Why target an industry, a product, or a production method altogether, rather than approaching the problem as one that can be adjusted and tweaked through policy and regulation? Is it always possible to regulate? If not, how do we decide if a market is a net positive or a net negative, once we take into account the nuances that inevitably go into this discussion?
How do you square away that decision, then? How do you know what the net impact is? Given these questions, what is actually the impact of the good intentions of not supporting these products altogether? Could you be dooming children to starvation, rather than work? Which one is worse?
And since porn is part of the discussion, what would be the impact of absolutely zero demand for porn in the world? Would the world be better off, or is the gigantic market created by the demand ultimately a net positive in the lives of hundreds of thousands of people?
Why target an industry, a product, or a production method altogether, rather than approaching the problem as one that can be adjusted and tweaked through policy and regulation? Is it always possible to regulate? If not, how do we decide if a market is a net positive or a net negative, once we take into account the nuances that inevitably go into this discussion?
buy teh haloz
Banned
.
Why sonic tho
ColtraineGF
Member
I personally don't fret too much over things I cannot personally change.
Sometimes, people just eat meat. Sometimes, they look into practices and try to change things farther up the chain. All the power to them. I know not everyone can care about everything, so I support the people who have the ability to effect change wherever they can.
Most of your responses in the thread come off as a bit condescending IMO, but "that's just my opinion, I'm not judging".
Sometimes, people just eat meat. Sometimes, they look into practices and try to change things farther up the chain. All the power to them. I know not everyone can care about everything, so I support the people who have the ability to effect change wherever they can.
The starting premise of this thread, and the questions you chose, are definitely judging. Assuming that there is an implicit guilt that *should* come with doing these activities as an individual, and implying that people who don't think these things must be practicing some sort of cognitive dissonance, is a value judgment.
Most of your responses in the thread come off as a bit condescending IMO, but "that's just my opinion, I'm not judging".
Winnie the Pimp
Member
Very true. The world is an incredibly complicated place if you really get into specifics.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
There's that facet of the thread as well. "I'm not judging you, but...".
hodayathink
Member
Meat: I'm a carnivore, I don't want to say that I don't care, but I kinda don't care. I'd rather they be treated humanely before I eat them, but eating animals isn't an evil thing, and I understand that meat processing can be a disgusting thing to look at.
Pornography: I've actually been on a porn set before. I know there's a lot of shady shit that goes on in the porn industry, but I also know there's people that do things the right way, and those are the people I watch and support.
Edit: And the people who think that watching amateur porn means the people in it aren't being exploited makes me laugh.
I don't think about it too much.
:/
As for porn . . . I don't watch stuff with women on it. I would like to say that maybe it's just the imbalance of power and that women should set up their own studios, but I'm sure that would be exploitable, too.
The more women who speak out about it, the better.
:/
As for porn . . . I don't watch stuff with women on it. I would like to say that maybe it's just the imbalance of power and that women should set up their own studios, but I'm sure that would be exploitable, too.
The more women who speak out about it, the better.
Other animals don't set up a system of raising animals, and then to slice, slaughter, and deliver processed neat to millions of other animals.
Aizo
Banned
I see. Have you watched documentaries on porn production's dark side/did you read the article from The Japan Times that I posted in the original post? I guess I am assuming too much in that I believe one would feel guilty knowing those things and enjoying porn, but my questions have also been about why one does not feel guilty while also being educated on the topics. That has, since the original, un-edited post at the beginning, been a clear option that I recognized. When that is the case, I'd like to know why.
So, why is it that you don't feel guilty, despite knowing what the women go through? I'm genuinely asking, and I'm not going to tell you that you should be guilty.
Indeed, so the process of spreading knowledge about all aspects of production can assist in creating potentially better regulation that would improve the welfare of all. As you have detailed, though, it's an intricate amalgam of issues.
I see what you're saying. I apologize that my responses are coming off as condescending, but it's really not my intention. If I could start this thread all over and change my wording, I would. A discussion about implicit guilt, semantics, and condescension is not the one I wanted to have in this thread.
I did make the thread in hopes that those who are simultaneously educated on the problematic nature of these industries but are also lacking guilt would explain their standpoint. It is not because I want to tell them that they should feel guilty. It's that I want to understand how they avoid guilt, despite what they know. I genuinely want to see this viewpoint.
Edit: I edited the OP again. I hope that it now asks questions in a more neutral way.
Right, and I don't say that in a defeatist, "let's just give up" way.
I'm genuinely, earnestly saying that in attempting to take a principled, all-encompassing stance, we may cause more harm than good.
Does one require ignorance or cognitive dissonance to take such strong stances, then?
We need to know more, more, more.
By the way, I think this is a great thread. I understand and even relate to how some people naturally become defensive, but it's a good discussion to have!
I just watch porn and eat meat. I'm not looking into the mistreatment of either and have no plans to. If I felt I had to stand for every possible cause I wouldn't be using a computer or phone (foxconn), driving a car(pollution), or watching ANY type of entertainers (views on life are conflicting with mine).
Also, why is animal treatment such a big concern when people plan to murder it anyway?
Also, why is animal treatment such a big concern when people plan to murder it anyway?
Cheesecakebobby
Banned
I don't know about porn, but when it comes to eating meat in our current society, if you aren't ignorant of the conditions and reality of the meat industry or apathetic to the suffering of sentient beings then you are engaging in cognitive dissonance. That pretty much covers every possibility.
Mr Waluigi
Banned
Never been a fan of porn in the first place. Just watching people get it down together with no affection isn't interesting. Learning that pretty much every porn actor has done very disgusting things and that women are often abused in that industry only strenghtened that sentiment. I'm more into erotic but 100% artificial things such as hentai (yeah i said it) or my own imagination, although I'm seriously thinking of joining the Catholic church so I've been trying to stop masturbating at all anyway.
Meat... Even if I became a vegetarian today, what would it change? Animals would still be abused and killed in inhumane conditions. Same thing for electronics - even if I spent the time to look for 100% safe electronics that were not built upon the back of underpaid workers or African warfare victims, it wouldn't change a single thing. I do aknowledge that a large amount of things I use everyday, important or not, had to decrease the quality of life (so to speak) of other living things, but what can I do? That's not going to change.
Meat... Even if I became a vegetarian today, what would it change? Animals would still be abused and killed in inhumane conditions. Same thing for electronics - even if I spent the time to look for 100% safe electronics that were not built upon the back of underpaid workers or African warfare victims, it wouldn't change a single thing. I do aknowledge that a large amount of things I use everyday, important or not, had to decrease the quality of life (so to speak) of other living things, but what can I do? That's not going to change.
Frozenprince
Banned
This is what I do for the majority of the meat I consume. Hunting is something many more people should at least experience once (or at least a successful hunt, lord knows I go out 95% of the time for nothing).
Cheesecakebobby
Banned
Over the course of your life, hundreds or thousands of animals would not suffer and be killed because of the drop in demand. Not sure why people have trouble understanding this basic point.
Just because you repeatadly say "im not judging you" doesnt mean your posts dont sound super judgemental by the way Aizo
"Im not judging you but how can you watch porn without feeling guilty? How can you be such a piece of shit, no judgement tho" come on now
"Im not judging you but how can you watch porn without feeling guilty? How can you be such a piece of shit, no judgement tho" come on now
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